To those who claim bowing/prostrating towards Kaaba is shirk
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speaking of black cubes. Am i the only one who think that mecca and sunnism served as the role model for the borg in star trek? Look alike, talk alike, be alike, assimilate anyone in your way or kill it. And then they always come flying in a huge black cube. ?!
That was your turn to make me laugh, Noah )
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speaking of black cubes. Am i the only one who think that mecca and sunnism served as the role model for the borg in star trek? Look alike, talk alike, be alike, assimilate anyone in your way or kill it. And then they always come flying in a huge black cube. ?!
Peace
Strangely enough I drew that parrallel too -)
Perhaps they drew inspiration from reality?
And borgs are indeed automatons like millions of people who prostrate before the stone cube in a desert!
Regards,
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SaLaM Noah
the pet rock in the corner of the kabaa DOES concern me a lot,
Brother, the little stone is not mentioned in the Quran. So dont concern yourself with it.
LT, i swear i dont know where you come up with those ideas!!! looooooooooollll Kabbah and the Borg??????? WTF!!!!!!!!!! rotfl
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Brother, the little stone is not mentioned in the Quran. So dont concern yourself with it.
Jaxal, if that place has 'the house' , then it would not contain these idolatrous symbols. Remember, the place actualises the metaphor of Ibrahim, the imam for mankind (2/125).
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SaLaM mquran
Those of us who were sunnis, didnt leave sunnism for no reason. I know the flaws of sunnis. Its just unfortunate that the Sacred House / Shrine has such things around it. Again, if i went to the pilgrimmage, i wouldnt kiss that stone coz i see no reason to. But just becoz Kabbah has this stone by its side, wont deter me from going.
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Salam Khi, All,
Salam,
Some here including Ayman claimed that bowing towards a physical structure cannot possibly be GOD's command and would be shirk. To prove how nonsensible this assertion is one only needs to consider those Quranic verses where GOD Himself commands the angels to prostrate, yes the very same word PROSTRATE, before Adam. So who do you think they were worshipping, Adam or God? See the difference? GOD Bless!I think that Kyle's (Idolfree1) explanation of Malaykah as "forces" would make sense. The "forces" could be the keys of Adam's organs, because only when Adam's creation was completed (with the Rooh) that the forces were ordered to "function" and be at Adam's service. Those forces were ordered to be under the command of Adam to prostrate to him.
Iblees refused to work for Adam's benefit.
As you can see from the Ayat of Adam's creation, that the Malaykah were not agreeing about the creation of Adam because of all the bloodshed that will result from Adam's creation Blood resulting from destruction of the organs.. It is as if the Malaykah were telling Allah that their service to Adam would be a horrible waste, as Adam will not respect their submission to him and would kill and destroy fellow humans mercilessly. So the Malaykah were exclaiming to Allah that wouldn't it be better if their job remained as just Tasbee7 and Taqdees to Allah? -
Salam all,
The Commentary of Maulana Muhammad Ali about V 230
SECTION 4 Greatness of Man and Need for Revelation
30 And when thy Lord said to the angels (a), I am going to place a ruler (b) in the earth, they said Wilt Thou place in it such as make mischief in it and shed blood (c)? And we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness (d). He said Surely I know what you know not.
30a. The Arabic word for angels is mal?ikah, which is the plural of malak. It is said to be derived, either from malaka which means he controlled, and refers to the angelsfunction of controlling the forces of nature on the physical side of life, or from alk, to send,the original being in this case malak, contracted into malak, and refers to the angels spiritual function of acting as intermediaries between God and man. Both root ideas thus contain a reference to the principal functions ascribed to the angels. The existence of such intermediaries has been recognized by righteous men in all ages and all countries.
It will also be seen, from what has been said above as to the functions of the angelic beings, that All?hs saying to them is really the expression of an intention which is to be brought into execution. It is not a conversation, or a consultation with the angels; it is an expression of the Divine will to those intermediary beings who are entrusted by the Divine
Being with the execution of it. It may also be added that by the angels here are meant the angels entrusted with this particular affair, not all the angels of the universe (IJ).30b. This shows the high place that man was destined to hold in the whole of creation. The original word khal?fah (from khalafa, meaning he came after or succeeded another that had perished or died), means primarily a successor, and hence the supreme or the greatest ruler who supplies the place of him who has been before him (T, LL).
IMsd and IAb explain khal?fah as meaning one who judges among, or rules, the creatures of All?h by His command (IJ). What is stated here is an allegorical description of the preference of man above the whole of the creation on this earth, and then of the election of those righteous servants of All?h from among men themselves who lead others into the right path. One of the signicances suggested by the commentators is that the word khal?fah here refers to the children of Adam, i.e., the whole of mankind. The correctness of this view is corroborated by the Qur?n itself, which says, referring to the whole of mankind
and He it is Who has made you successors in the land (or rulers in the earth) (6165), the word used for rulers being khal?if, plural of khal?fah. Hence the reference here seems to be to the whole of mankind. References to Adam are contained in 23039 and in 359; 71125; 1528 44; 176165; 1850; 20115124 and 387185.30c. God declares His will to the angels, the controlling forces of nature, to create man who is meant to rule the forces of nature, and to whom, therefore, power to rule is to be delegated. Being entrusted with such great powers, man could use them rightly or wrongly, and it is to this fear of abuse of power that the angels give expression, they themselves being only executors of Divine will in which they have no choice. The concluding words of this verse show that God knew that man would abuse the power given to him, but He also knew that he would turn it to good use as well. The whole history of man is briey written in this one verse. Man is the greatest killer on this earth but he also turns the gifts of God to the best use. The angels speak of the darker side of the picture of humanity, but to God was known the brighter side as well as the darker side of this picture. Hence the words, I know what you know not.
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Salam Khi, All,
Salam,
Some here including Ayman claimed that bowing towards a physical structure cannot possibly be GOD's command and would be shirk. To prove how nonsensible this assertion is one only needs to consider those Quranic verses where GOD Himself commands the angels to prostrate, yes the very same word PROSTRATE, before Adam. So who do you think they were worshipping, Adam or God? See the difference? GOD Bless!I think that Kyle's (Idolfree1) explanation of Malaykah as "forces" would make sense. The "forces" could be the keys of Adam's organs, because only when Adam's creation was completed (with the Rooh) that the forces were ordered to "function" and be at Adam's service. Those forces were ordered to be under the command of Adam to prostrate to him.
Iblees refused to work for Adam's benefit.
As you can see from the Ayat of Adam's creation, that the Malaykah were not agreeing about the creation of Adam because of all the bloodshed that will result from Adam's creation Blood resulting from destruction of the organs.. It is as if the Malaykah were telling Allah that their service to Adam would be a horrible waste, as Adam will not respect their submission to him and would kill and destroy fellow humans mercilessly. So the Malaykah were exclaiming to Allah that wouldn't it be better if their job remained as just Tasbee7 and Taqdees to Allah?Bit off topic - do angels have foreknowledge? are Angels omniscient too?
Regards,
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LT, i swear i dont know where you come up with those ideas!!! looooooooooollll Kabbah and the Borg??????? WTF!!!!!!!!!! rotfl
Hey Jaxal I am not the only one to link Borg Cube with the Kabbah -)
Life imitates art chap!!!"You will be assimilated. Everyone will be Borgs. Resistance is Futile"
How how Traditionalist Islamic battle cry!!!
Translated
"You will ALL be "Muslims". Everyone will be "Muslims". Everyone is Born a "Muslim". God is Great!!!"
Regards,
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Peace Lote,
Salam Khi, All,
Salam,
Some here including Ayman claimed that bowing towards a physical structure cannot possibly be GOD's command and would be shirk. To prove how nonsensible this assertion is one only needs to consider those Quranic verses where GOD Himself commands the angels to prostrate, yes the very same word PROSTRATE, before Adam. So who do you think they were worshipping, Adam or God? See the difference? GOD Bless!I think that Kyle's (Idolfree1) explanation of Malaykah as "forces" would make sense. The "forces" could be the keys of Adam's organs, because only when Adam's creation was completed (with the Rooh) that the forces were ordered to "function" and be at Adam's service. Those forces were ordered to be under the command of Adam to prostrate to him.
Iblees refused to work for Adam's benefit.
As you can see from the Ayat of Adam's creation, that the Malaykah were not agreeing about the creation of Adam because of all the bloodshed that will result from Adam's creation Blood resulting from destruction of the organs.. It is as if the Malaykah were telling Allah that their service to Adam would be a horrible waste, as Adam will not respect their submission to him and would kill and destroy fellow humans mercilessly. So the Malaykah were exclaiming to Allah that wouldn't it be better if their job remained as just Tasbee7 and Taqdees to Allah?Bit off topic - do angels have foreknowledge? are Angels omniscient too?
How did the Malaykah know? They did not even suspect. They were sure about it! How did they have that knowledge? I don't know yet!
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Peace,
How did they have that knowledge? I don't know yet!
231. And He taught Adam the description of all things, then He displayed them to the Angels and said ?Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful.?
232. They said ?Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except that which You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise.? -
Peace,
Thank you, Zein.
How were the Malaykah taught that knowledge? I believe that that is what Lote Tree was wondering about.
The Malaykah were talking about the future as if it was happening right in front of them. The clear future is part of "Al Ghayb". I know that "Al Ghayb" belongs to Allah only.Or maybe Allah told the Malaykah about Adam's mischief, before surprising them with His decision to make Adam a khaleefah on Earth, in spite of it! Which was very puzzling to the Malaykah!
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SaLaM Taj
Forgive me for going off-topic here but i find it immensily interesting how words from ancient languages remain intact even after 1400 years. So think of it as a general knowledge P . For example, did you know that "Ghayb" in urdu means "Invisible"? So "Al Ghayb" is the same word in Urdu AND the arabic spoken in UAE, "The Invisible". I find that soo cool.
Ok, continue discussion oops
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Salam M,
Perhaps the malaika knew because al-Jinn are humans and in thier jinn-ness, they caused bloodshed, and they came before the creation of Adam, the first civilised humanity
That is a long and wide tale to assume about the Jinn, when Al Quran states loud and clear that Allah created Al Jinn min "Marijinn min Narr" "A smokeless Fire"!
You are assuming first that Al Jinn are humans, and uncivilized ones too! Also that the Malaykah's knowledge of the bloodshed was based on a previous human experience. I am out of here! -
Hey there cowboy!
Salam,
Some here including Ayman claimed that bowing towards a physical structure cannot possibly be GOD's command and would be shirk. To prove how nonsensible this assertion is one only needs to consider those Quranic verses where GOD Himself commands the angels to protrate, yes the very same word PROSTRATE, before Adam. So who do you think they were worshipping, Adam or God? See the difference? GOD Bless!Adam means human or man kind, thus the prostration you are refering to cannot possibly mean a physical one.
Bye!
/St?phane
