New reading of V 6:145

marie

Peace all,

My post is about the word "RIJSUN" which is usually attributed to the meat of pig.

Just before the word "RIJSUN", there is the article fa-innahu which is usually translated as "for it is.." . Grammatically, This article refers to something in a singular form.

According my understanding, this article refers to the food which is prohibited.
The adjectrive used in the arabic text to say prohibited is "muharraman". This adjective is in a singular form which implies the prohibited food for one eater to eat (muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhu) Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood OR the flesh of swine.

The prohibited food which is "RIJSUN" /not pure for one eater is Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood OR the flesh of swine. Each of them is "RIJSUN" /not pure for one eater.

Let us note that the article "OR" which is the equivalent of "AW" in arabic is ommited from the usual translation. Praise to the God, each detail is very important for a better understanding.

6145 Say, "I do not find in the Revelation given to me, any food that is prohibited for one eater who wishes to eat except Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood as against organ meats OR the flesh of swine, this "food" is disapproved/not pure, or anything (not just meat) which, in disobedience, has been dedicated to other than Allah. If one is forced by dire need without being deliberate and without transgressing, your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. (2173), (53).

Qul la ajidu feema oohiyailayya muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhu illa an yakoona maytatan AW daman masfoohan AW lahma khinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun aw fisqan ohilla lighayri Allahibihi famani idturra ghayra baghin wala AAadinfa-inna rabbaka ghafoorun raheemun

If the explanation above is not clear, I would be grateful if someone accepts to repharase what I have said )

Salam

wildguest1956

According to me, one of the keys to understand why the flesh of swine is rijsun lies in the meaning of this word.

We have been used to understanding rijsun in as "bad for the health".
But, since, according to most of scientifical studies, pork is not necessarily "bad for the health", we are getting bothered by the fact that the flesh of swine is rijsun.

So, let us see how this word is used in the quran

O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction (rijsun) used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.

Whoever God wishes to guide, He will open his chest towards surrender; and whoever He wishes to misguide, He will make his chest tight and constricted, as one who is climbing towards the sky. It is such that God afflicts (alrrijsa) those who do not believe.

Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul (rijsun); or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

He said "An affliction (rijsun) and wrath shall befall you from your Lord. Do you argue with me over names which you and your fathers have created with no authority being sent down by God? Wait then, and I will wait with you."

They will swear by God to you, when you return to them, so that you would let them be. So let them be, for they are foul (rijsun), and their destiny is Hell as a recompense for what they earned.

And when a chapter is revealed, some of them Say "Who has been strengthened in faith by this?" For those who believe, it increased their faith, and they rejoice. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, it only increased foulness (rijsan) to their foulness (rijsi), and they died as rejecters.

And it is not for a soul to believe except by God's leave. And He makes the affliction (alrrijsa) upon those who do not comprehend.

Thus, and whosoever honours God's restrictions, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock is made lawful for you except what is recited upon you. So avoid the foulness (alrrijsa) of idols and avoid saying false statements.

You shall settle down in your homes, and do not be about like the olden days of ignorance. You shall hold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, and obey God and His messenger. God wishes to remove any affliction (alrrijsa) from you, O people of the sanctuary, and to purify you completely.

(please check wether I have not made mistakes)

So, we can see that the word rijs can qualify a wide variety of things intoxicants, gambling, altars, arrows of chance, meat of pig, disbelievers, a chapter of the quran, idols...

So, it is not certain that rijs has to be understood as "bad for the health" in .

Peace

savage_carrot

Peace JM,

Yes, rachamandi posted something along those lines. I have to say I agree with this reasoning because of the various places it is used...it gives us a bigger picture.

Peace Marie,

I understood the post just fine! I agree...It makes it much clearer now what is being called rijsun.

marie

Salam JM, Nadia?

Thanks brother JM for your informative post. In the light of the occurence of rijsun in the Reading, how do you understand it in 6145?

Thanks in advance.

Just to add that Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood OR the flesh of swine are not themselves "RIJSUN" but to eat them is rijsun for the eater. Even if they do not harm health, to eat them is not pure/good for the eater.

This is the use or the consumption of intoxicants, gambling, altars, arrows of chance, Carrion (dead meat), running blood, the flesh of swine, idols.. which involves "alrrijsun" upon those who use or consume them.
The God forbade Carrion (dead meat), running blood, the flesh of swine in orther to remove "alrrijs" from us and to purify us.

The Reading gives us several examples to illustrate the several meanings of" rijs"

From 9124-125, "rijsihim" refers to the desease in the heart of the disbelievers. Here rijsun can be opposed to healthy.

And when a chapter is revealed, some of them Say "Who has been strengthened in faith by this?" For those who believe, it increased their faith, and they rejoice. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, it only increased foulness (rijsan) to their foulness (rijsihim), and they died as rejecters.

From 3333, It seems more accurate to translate alrrijsa as the stain; all what is not pure for our spiritual growth and guidance. The goal is to remove the "rijs" in order to purify.

You shall settle down in your homes, and do not be about like the olden days of ignorance. You shall hold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, and obey God and His messenger. God wishes to remove any affliction (alrrijsa) from you, O people of the sanctuary, and to purify you completely.

Salam

wildguest1956

Peace Marie,

I agree with you when you says

From 9124-125, "rijsihim" refers to the desease in the heart of the disbelievers. Here rijsun can be opposed to healthy.

From 3333, It seems more accurate to translate alrrijsa as the stain; all what is not pure for our spiritual growth and guidance. The goal is to remove the "rijs" in order to purify.

That is, I think pig is not necessarily bad for the physical health, but it is bad for the spiritual health.

The word "pig" is generally regarded as an insult.

A pig =

a person regarded as greedy and pig-like
a coarse obnoxious person
One who is hoggish; a greedy person.
a person who is unpleasant and difficult to deal with
an immoral woman

Since we should, as muslim, avoid greediness, hoggishness, coarseness, dirtiness, obnoxiousness, immorality, we should also deem as rijs to be eaten an animal that carries all these symbols.

If someone has a better explanation, feel free to expose it

Peace

marie

Peace Marie,

I agree with you when you says

From 9124-125, "rijsihim" refers to the desease in the heart of the disbelievers. Here rijsun can be opposed to healthy.

From 3333, It seems more accurate to translate alrrijsa as the stain; all what is not pure for our spiritual growth and guidance. The goal is to remove the "rijs" in order to purify.

That is, I think pig is not necessarily bad for the physical health, but it is bad for the spiritual health.

I don't share you understanding "it is bad for the spiritual health."
6145 is about the prohibited food which induces rijsun upon his eater/consumer. The meat of pig, running blood... are forbidden to eat them because their consummation are not completely pure/healthy/good for one eater. Idem for intoxicant, gambling, the consequences upon the user/consumer are concrete for the user/consumer and the society/family physically(health), financially, psychologically.....

It is obvious that the meat of pig or the blood are edible in in the world but to eat them are not completely pure/healthy/good for one eater. The God wishes to purify us completely )

savage_carrot

Peace Marie, JM,

It is obvious that the meat of pig or the blood are edible in in the world but to eat them are not completely pure/healthy/good for one eater. The God wishes to purify us completely

I think JM meant the same, he/she just used the words spritual as the meat of pig is 'not necessarily bad for the physical health' (short term longterm? There might be something there but it's not an issue for the point) thus spritually it is something that is not completely 'pure/healthy/good for one eater'.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting JM's post, I would really like some clarifications if I misread...because to me it seems to be the same thing?

Though I too agree of translating alrrijsa as the stain...it makes sense to me.

Nadia

unknownuser

Peace be upon you JM,

I also agree that "pig" here stands for greediness. The story of the fall of adam is that they had all they wanted in the garden, but they were greedy for even the one thing they were told not to approach. Also the God says that some people are "turned into apes and pigs", certainly that is being used allegorically.

But what I do not understand is what blood and the other parts of those verses symbolize.

wildguest1956

But what I do not understand is what blood and the other parts of those verses symbolize.

That's a good question.

I don't know whether blood in is regarded as rijsun (on only flesh of pork), but let us assume it is...

You can find some explanations here
http//www.askmoses.com/qa_detail.html?h=146&o=88523
But I have not found it very convincing.

Maybe we have to regard blood as filthy (an refrain from drinking it) because blood is what makes life. Should we stop having disgust for it, we would feel no pain in taking life (God has made sacred) , whether it be from animals or humans.

Here is an article on psychology of disgust http//www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_n1_v31/ai_20202761

But God knows best our psychological framework.

Peace

marie

Peace all,

Peace Marie, JM,

It is obvious that the meat of pig or the blood are edible in in the world but to eat them are not completely pure/healthy/good for one eater. The God wishes to purify us completely

I think JM meant the same, he/she just used the words spritual as the meat of pig is 'not necessarily bad for the physical health' (short term longterm? There might be something there but it's not an issue for the point) thus spritually it is something that is not completely 'pure/healthy/good for one eater'.

Maybe you are right but according to JM's statement, that doesn't make sence that God forbad to eat the meat of pig only because the pig carries all these symbols

Since we should, as muslim, avoid greediness, hoggishness, coarseness, dirtiness, obnoxiousness, immorality, we should also deem as rijs to be eaten an animal that carries all these symbols.

Can we say the same thing about the fat of pig?
How the consummation of the meat of pig can influence our spiritual health?
According my understanding the verse doesn't tell us the meat of pig is rijs but its consommation is rijsun/not pure/healthy for the eater in the same way for deed meat and blood.

the God says that some people are "turned into apes and pigs", certainly that is being used allegorically.

You are right but this is not the case of restriction dietry; the V 6145 speaks about the consummation of the meat of pig.
Physical and spiritual health are two distinct things.

savage_carrot

Peace Marie,

Maybe you are right but according to JM's statement, that doesn't make sence that God forbad to eat the meat of pig only because the pig carries all these symbols

You are right, I didn't read it right. I agree with you, the fact that the meat is prohibited tells us something...

According my understanding the verse doesn't tell us the meat of pig is rijs but its consommation is rijsun/not pure/healthy for the eater in the same way for deed meat and blood.

Absolutely! Thanks for the clarification. I would add this that it might not be something whose effects are immediately felt?!? It's worth serious study imo...

Nadia

wildguest1956

Since we should, as muslim, avoid greediness, hoggishness, coarseness, dirtiness, obnoxiousness, immorality, we should also deem as rijs to be eaten an animal that carries all these symbols.

Can we say the same thing about the fat of pig?

Are you sure the word lahma does not include fat ?
Have you checked all the dictionaries ?
The majority of translators have translated it as flesh, and flesh includes fat.

How the consummation of the meat of pig can influence our spiritual health?

If the concern of God in prohibiting pork was our health, why has he not prohibited hemlock ?
Why would God allow us to eat pork in case of necessity ?

IMHO, God knows that we don't need Him to determine what is good for our health or not. Tradition and reason are efficient enough.

That's why I think that the explanation of food taboos lies in morality.
In the case of food dedicated to idols, it is clear.

The link between disgust in food and morality is explained in the following link
http//faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/articles/misra.html

Some extracts

Disgust is triggered not primarily by the sensory properties of an object, but by ideational concerns about what it is, or where it has been. In fact, we conceptualize disgust as a distinct form of food rejection, different from rejections based on bad taste or on fear of harm to the body (Rozin & Fallon, 1980; 1987).

In its ability to spread from one object to another, disgust follows two laws of sympathetic magic first described by E. B. Tylor (1871/1974), James Frazer (1890/1959) and Marcel Mauss (1902/1972). The first law, contagion, states that "things which have once been in contact with each other continue ever afterwards to act on each other" (Frazer, p.35). When an offensive (or revered) person or animal touches a previously neutral object, some essence or residue is transmitted, even when no material particles are visible. The second law of sympathetic magic is similarity, which Frazer summarizes as "like produces like" (p.35). Things that are similar in some properties are felt to be fundamentally similar, or even identical. Thus Americans are often reluctant to consume chocolate fudge in the shape of dog feces, or to drink apple juice out of a new bedpan, even though they "know" there is no threat of contamination (Rozin, Millman & Nemeroff, 1986; Rozin & Nemeroff, 1990). Related to these two laws of sympathetic magic is the widespread belief that "you are what you eat." Many cultures believe that by eating a particular animal, one takes on the traits of that animal. This belief has been found to be operative in American college students as well (Nemeroff & Rozin, 1989).

The massive restrictions that Americans place on eating, sexuality and body modification, and the linkage of all three to disgust, point to a concern about the human body that cannot be based on rational fears about health. (If health concerns motivated disgust then skydiving, cyanide and butter would be disgusting, while genital piercing and the consumption of slugs or human flesh would not.) Rather, Americans seem at times to hold a view of the body found more clearly in other parts of the world that the body is a temple, housing the self or the soul within. This temple must be carefully guarded against all forms of pollution or desecration, and we propose that disgust is best understood as the guardian of the temple of the body. Core disgust guards against material contamination, and the extended animal-reminder concerns about sex, envelope violation and hygiene guard against any undignified use or modification of the temple. Rozin (1990) contrasts fear, which guards primarily against physical threats to the body, with disgust, which guards against more subtle threats to the "soul". We would like to re-emphasize that contrast here disgust involves a vertical dimension of degradation-elevation and a link to notions of purity and sacredness, which are not found in fear.

Descartes was wrong our emotions are ruling us more than expected. We should not overestimate our rationality.

But God knows best our real nature.

Peace

marie

If the concern of God in prohibiting pork was our health, why has he not prohibited hemlock ?

I think 6145 is clear, all food are lawfull for one eater except dead meat, blodd and the meat of pig. They can be used as a criterion. the God gives us reason to distinguish what is fatal for us but at the same time good as medicine like the poison of the snakes.

IMHO, God knows that we don't need Him to determine what is good for our health or not.

Indeed, the God gives us reason for that but we don't hold the absolute truth and understanding about all things. The Reading is a guide for those who use their reason.

That's why I think that the explanation of food taboos lies in morality.

THis is not a scientific explanation, nevertheless ambiguous.
And what about intoxicants...it is also lies in morality?

lahm/meat and shahm/fat are used distinctly in the Reading. When the God means all the body all the body of the animal, He doesn't specify any part of it (meat, fat in different pat of the body, blood..). The language is concise.

PS I don't check the meaning of lahm in all dictionnaries

Jaxal

SaLaM JM

If the concern of God in prohibiting pork was our health, why has he not prohibited hemlock ?

If im not mistaken, isnt hemlock a poisonous herb? Does God really needs to forbid us to eat somethint that is obviously fatal to us?

unknownuser

Peace Marie,

Marie, would you please care to clarify some of my concerns below

The pig does not weigh in or carry the notion that it?s meat is rijsun by it?s very nature/creation/origin for the simple, natural, scientific and logical reasons but ?ill-seeming? certainly does in any case. The same is true when speaking of ALL CARRION, ALL BLOOD AND ALL MEAT DEDICATED TO OTHER THAN GOD. Neither carrion nor blood nor meat is specific to anything.
Could you present some valid proofs that people have gotten sick or died because of eating specifically pig?s meat which is allegedly deemed rijsun by the orthodox, and I?ll present dozen factual events which will prove that thousands have gotten sick and even died because of consuming blood or ill-seeming/bad/rotten meat for which the verse explicitly refrains us from.
The verses being grammatically correct must significantly bear logical reasoning, how the entire verse is understood, what message it reveals and in correlation to other verses, as clearly and most reasonably presented by PB. Khinzeer to mean pig is insignificant.
More importantly, Khinzeer is an adjective and has several other derivatives which I?m sure you are aware of. Pig is a noun specific to an animal and has no derivatives of itself. Thus, khinzeer can only mean ill-seeming and other related adjectives such as bad, rotten, unsound, putrid, etc. Can you present a summary on all derivatives of khinzeer along with their meanings?
?any food? (meaning all) in verse 6145 is not specific to anything not being restricted and is directly related to blood, carrion and ill-seeming meat, all of which are restricted and not specific to anything either.
Replacing the word ?pig? with ?ill-seeming? (bold and underlined below) has no negative bearings whatsoever and in fact properly understood when measured against its overall context

My post is about the word "RIJSUN" which is usually attributed to the meat of pig.

Just before the word "RIJSUN", there is the article fa-innahu which is usually translated as "for it is.." . Grammatically, This article refers to something in a singular form.

According my understanding, this article refers to the food which is prohibited.
The adjectrive used in the arabic text to say prohibited is "muharraman". This adjective is in a singular form which implies the prohibited food for one eater to eat (muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhu) Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood OR the ill-seeming meat.

The prohibited food which is "RIJSUN" /not pure for one eater is Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood OR the ill-seeming meat. Each of them is "RIJSUN" /not pure for one eater.

Let us note that the article "OR" which is the equivalent of "AW" in arabic is ommited from the usual translation. Praise to the God, each detail is very important for a better understanding.

6145 Say, "I do not find in the Revelation given to me, any food that is prohibited for one eater who wishes to eat except Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood as against organ meats OR the ill-seeming meat, this "food" is disapproved/not pure, or anything (not just meat) which, in disobedience, has been dedicated to other than Allah.? If one is forced by dire need without being deliberate and without transgressing, your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. (2173), (53).

Qul la ajidu feema oohiyailayya muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhu illa an yakoona maytatan AW daman masfoohan AW lahma khinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun aw fisqan ohilla lighayri Allahibihi famani idturra ghayra baghin wala AAadinfa-inna rabbaka ghafoorun raheemun

Hope to hear from you and please be specific to my points.
Regards and GOD bless.

Jaxal

SaLaM Danish

Why are you overlooking the most obvious? I will repeat myself. Why would God forbid us from eating something that is OBVIOUSLY harmful and even fatal to us? Thats like God forbiding us to eat poison or hemlock. Reading and understanding the Quran requires common sense too. And its common sense NOT to eat ill-seeming food. Wouldnt you say?

marie

Peace Danish,

The pig does not weigh in or carry the notion that its meat is rijsun by its very nature/creation/origin for the simple, natural, scientific and logical reasons

As I already stated in my previous posts, according my understanding, 6145 doesn't tell us that the meat of pig is rijs but to eat it is rijsun/not completely pure/healthy for the eater in the same way for deed meat and blood.
For me the meat of pig is rijs and to eat is rijs for the eater are not the same thing. This why I have created a new thread to expose the "new reading of V6145 )

I hope I was clear when I have said

It is obvious that the meat of pig or the blood are edible in the world but to eat them are not completely pure/healthy/good for one eater. The God wishes to purify us completely

You wrote

but ill-seeming certainly is rijsun by its very nature/creation/origin for the simple, natural, scientific and logical reason. The same is true when speaking of ALL CARRION, ALL BLOOD AND ALL MEAT DEDICATED TO OTHER THAN GOD.

As I said above both the meat of pig or the blood are edible in the world.They adid not die. You can only for "ill-seeming meat"and by the salme way rotted fruit and vegetables.
In France people eat a sausage fabricated with blood/black pudding
The God forbad ALL MEAT DEDICATED TO OTHER THAN GOD for not the same reason i.e. physical health than dede meat, blood and the meat of pigroll

You are right when you wrote

carrion nor blood nor meat is specific to anything.

But that doesn't imply that "lahma alkhinzeer" is specific to anything. Now you invent a rule how to understand according your way roll
For example when the God uses this allegory and says that some people "behaves like apes and pigs (560)", you cannot reason in the same way , let us suppose that alkhanazeer/the pigs is not a noun, can you say that alqiradat/the apes is also specific to anything roll

There are several examples in the Reading

7133.So We sent them the flood, and the locust, and the lice, and the frogs, and the blood; all detailed signs; but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people.

In 7133 blood is specific to anything can you deduce that the locust, and the lice, and the frogs are specific to anything roll

Could you present some valid proofs that people have gotten sick or died because of eating specifically pigs meat which is allegedly deemed rijsun by the orthodox,

This is the same ansswer

It is obvious that the meat of pig or the blood are edible in the world but to eat them are not completely pure/healthy/good for one eater. The God wishes to purify us completely

In 6145 is a deeper wisdom about the prohibition othe dead meat, blood and meat of pig whatever the meat of pig and blood are edible in the world.
GW, you will understand this wisdom.

Fell free to consider them as a food which are completely pure/healthy/good for one eater.

The verses being grammatically correct must significantly bear logical reasoning, how the entire verse is understood, what message it reveals and in correlation to other verses, as clearly and most reasonably presented by PB. Khinzeer to mean pig is insignificant.

I respect your view but I don't share it. I don't wish to repeat the arguments which I had already presented in the other thred"is swine halal"

More importantly, Khinzeer is an adjective and has several other derivatives which Im sure you are aware of. Pig is a noun specific to an animal and has no derivatives of itself. Thus, khinzeer can only mean ill-seeming and other related adjectives such as bad, rotten, unsound, putrid, etc. Can you present a summary on all derivatives of khinzeer along with their meanings?

Ity is not easy for me to translate you all meanings of this word from my arabic-arabic dictionnary because of my weak english and I spend much time to write a message in english.
But you can ask brother whakas if he can scan the information for you from his lexicon.

any food (meaning all) in verse 6145 is not specific to anything not being restricted and is directly related to blood, carrion and ill-seeming meat, all of which are restricted and not specific to anything either.

Wrong reasoning, see my answer above.

Replacing the word pig with ill-seeming (bold and underlined below) has no negative bearings whatsoever and in fact properly understood when measured against its overall context

Not based on valid argument but human misinterpretation which creates conradictions in side the Reading.
Don't substite the God's word without knowledge, you over-estimate your rationality.

May the God improve our understanding and knowledge.

Salam

savage_carrot

Peace sis Marie,

As I said above both the meat of pig or the blood are edible in the world. Then you cannot put in the same bag "ill-seeming" and "blood". In France people eat a sausage fabricated with blood

Yes, I think that's similar to the UK's black pudding...disgusting stuff that is lol The other thing I thought of was about dead meat. While watching a cooking show, this lady was talking about how you should tap the mussels before putting them in hot water to cook them, just to find out if it's alive or not. She said you could eat it but you have no idea about how long it's been dead. All these restrictions are something that are not obviously 'bad' for one...but 'can' be in certain situations (long term consumption maybe in some cases?!?). Like Jaxal pointed out and so have others in the other thread, it makes no sense to forbid something that is obviously bad and no one would normally eat it anyway . There is no logic to that.

Nadia

unknownuser

PEACE, MARIE, S. CARROT, JM,

Just to add that Carrion (dead meat) OR running blood OR the flesh of swine are not themselves "RIJSUN" but to eat them is rijsun for the eater. Even if they do not harm health, to eat them is not pure/good for the eater...This is the use or the consumption of intoxicants, gambling, altars, arrows of chance, Carrion (dead meat), running blood, the flesh of swine, idols.. which involves "alrrijsun" upon those who use or consume them. The God forbade Carrion (dead meat), running blood, the flesh of swine in orther to remove "alrrijs" from us and to purify us....According my understanding the verse doesn't tell us the meat of pig is rijs but its consommation is rijsun/not pure/healthy for the eater in the same way for deed meat and blood.

Marie, you and the others must stop using lahma khinzerin as if means the flesh of pig. This notion was totally and completely refuted by the explanation of ayat 6146 on the "Is Swine Halal", thread. Now, I both agree and disagree with you about the use of rijsun in ayat 6145, meaing, not only are carrion, running blood, ill-seeming flesh (whether that flesh is meat or produce), and things dedicated to other than Allah, in and of themselves rijusun (because they represent states/conditions of things which can harm the individual), but also render the eater rijsun for using them contrary to the guidance not to, except, if used for other than survival. To translate rijsun to only mean the what happens to the eater and not the thing itself as well, is a distortion of the ayat.

Looking forward to your reply.

unknownuser

Salaams All,

Nadia said? it makes no sense to forbid something that is obviously bad and no one would normally eat it anyway. There is no logic to that. "

Dear sister, Did you know a mullah here in Birmingham was caught making kebabs out of cat food - the dustbin men found more and more empty cans every week so they informed the environmental health people e.t.c

Similarly believe some people will feed you many things if they somehow benefit from it.

And I have personally witnessed some people in Pakistan - not Muslim however take parts of dead animals to eat, even though they weren?t dying or anything.

And something else a Disease mentioned in the Ayah 53 called Khonica - or something it?s when animals and even chickens get they start to suffocate - if I remember it correctly, and start dying but people in Pakistan call the Butcher and slaughter the Animal and sell it off quickly.

I found there are a lot of diseases mentioned in the quran but the poor suds have changed them into falling from a height or strangling or beating somthing to death e.t.c

God be with you.