Migration - The 'KEY' To A GOD Alone Society???
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Salaam all
mquran wrote
In a society which doesn't legislate in accordance to god's laws. attainment of peace is impossible.Attainment of peace is possible only within yourself.
Elke
Aye chuck !!! (UK Yorkshire accent) -)
Very much so!Regards,
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Elke Attainment of peace is possible only within yourself
.If you're a disembodied consciousness, sure. Sadly, most of us if not all, manifest in this world as physical bodies. Therefore, physical satisfaction cannot be overlooked in order to attain inner peace.
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Peace mq,
If you're a disembodied consciousness, sure. Sadly, most of us if not all, manifest in this world as physical bodies. Therefore, physical satisfaction cannot be overlooked in order to attain inner peace.
lol I echo Kyle when I say you should post more often...
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Salaam all,
migration isn't for 'spiritual reasons'. Migration (to an al-madeenah, a space where the deen is in action) is to seek peace. In a society which doesn't legislate in accordance to god's laws. attainment of peace is impossible.
This is very, very close to what I was trying to say here in this thread. Yes, I wish to be in a Peaceful society, but it is a peace based upon it being a Safe society and being free of Social Injustice. Hopefully, this point will be made even clearer as I address Sister LK's post.
Attainment of peace is possible only within yourself.
This is only half true. Attainment of Inner Peace is possible only Within yourself. But, we cannot overlook the fact that there is such things as Outer Peace which is reflected in the environment. That comes from the people of that environment all having Inner Peace and having their own personal relationship with their lord. That is why some places are considered more peaceful than others, which in turn makes it safer and less stressful than others. This is what I seek. I am not seeking a place that is uniform and robotic.
Please do not take this the wrong way, but I think it is so much easier to attain and talk about inner peace in Morocco and yet you would have a very hard time expressing those same sentiments if you lived here in the U.S. where Inner Anger and Inner Hatred far outnumber those with Inner Peace and Inner Love.
It is because of this lack of inner peace that I have to live side by side with gang bangers. It is because of this lack of inner peace that I can get pulled over by a Euro-American cop and I have to be on edge concerning what he is going to do with me as an African American at night.
You can have inner peace all you want, but come to America and see how far that inner peace can save you from this cold, violent, hateful place that we call America.
I don't believe Gangs exist in Morocco.
I don't believe that banks get held up in Morocco.
I don't believe that pedophiles and kidnappings are rampant in Morocco.
I don't believe innocent people get victimized by others who are driving and have what we call "Road Rage".
I don't believe that armed robberies are as much a problem in Morocco as they are in the U.S.
I don't believe that rape is a big problem in Morocco as we have here in the U.S.
Serial rapists, murderers, drug dealers, Ku Klux Klan, racism, you name it.
It is because of someone's lack of love and inner peace that he would refuse to give me a job that I am well qualified for only because he has a problem with my ethnicity.
I don't believe that they have an all gay high school in Morocco like we have in New York City.
I don't believe that they are allowing Gay Marriages in Morocoo like they are here in the U.S. Some are even allowed to adopt children.
As I said in my last post, a society that is moral, just, peaceful and safe is totally opposite to what exists here now. DO WE WISH TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR ARE WE CONTENT TO WASTE OUR TIME DEBATING WITH EACH OTHER WHILE THE WORLD AROUND US CRUMBLES AND DETERIORATES AND WILL EVENTUALLY DRAG US DOWN WITH IT??
If someone gave a survey between two different cities, we'll call them A City and B City, and B city is shown that at least 90% of it's inhabitants all have inner peace and have a content relationship with their lord, I will choose that place anytime over city A even if City A has a better economy.
We can have inner peace all we want, but in a place like the U.S. that inner peace can and will be infringed upon by others who lack that same inner peace. You can count on that.
Peace,
Damon. -
Salaamun alaikum,
Savage Carrot I echo Kyle when I say you should post more often...
Thanks. Very kind of you to say.
Damon Please do not take this the wrong way, but I think it is so much easier to attain and talk about inner peace in Morocco and yet you would have a very hard time expressing those same sentiments if you lived here in the U.S. where Inner Anger and Inner Hatred far outnumber those with Inner Peace and Inner Love.
Can't say as i've been to neither place. There is a bilateral relationship between outer and inner peace (respectively salm and amn in Quranic terms). Imaan and thus amn, can be attained anywhere but must be translated into the program of al-islaam.
I used to think a 'collective opinion' about migration is the precursor to its actualisation but I've changed my mind. Such a 'collective society' isn't Quranic. A messenger is necessary to personify al-quraan in the midst of such a society. He demonstrates al-quraan over the people, renders growth for them and gives them information about alkitaab and alhikmah (3/164).
I feel that this is lacking in your theory, Damon.
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Peace,
Can't say as i've been to neither place.
Well, I live in the United States and I have been to Morocco on two seprate occasions. The two times that I have visited Morocco I was still a sunni muslim. In fact, the purpose of my last trip there was to initiate arrangements for moving there. I've given up that idea once I became a non-believer in hadith, sunnah and the 'ulema.
There is a bilateral relationship between outer and inner peace
If you mean that outer peace is attained due to the influence of those who have inner peace, I agree with you and I believe that the safety and outer peace which is attained can positively re-enforce the inner peace that the people value. I believe that they go hand - in - hand. That they keep reenforcing and feeding upon each other.
A messenger is necessary to personify al-quraan in the midst of such a society. He demonstrates al-quraan over the people, renders growth for them and gives them information about alkitaab and alhikmah (3/164).
I feel that this is lacking in your theory, Damon.
The reason that I have avoided this discussion is because I have already been down this road. You and I simply differ as to who or what a messenger is, as well as the role that this person plays. There's nothing you or I can do about that. You see it the way you do and I see it the way I do and I no longer have the energy it takes to get into those kinds of discussions.
Peace,
Damon. -
Salam all and especially damon,
I just finished a very long post and it got lost?
I?ll start again.Dear damon, you seem to have a lot of anger and i can understand when you talk of where you live. But you don?t know morocco.
You wroteI don't believe Gangs exist in Morocco.
I don't believe that banks get held up in Morocco.
I don't believe that pedophiles and kidnappings are rampant in Morocco.
I don't believe innocent people get victimized by others who are driving and have what we call "Road Rage".
I don't believe that armed robberies are as much a problem in Morocco as they are in the U.S.
I don't believe that rape is a big problem in Morocco as we have here in the U.S.
Serial rapists, murderers, drug dealers, Ku Klux Klan, racism, you name it.
It is because of someone's lack of love and inner peace that he would refuse to give me a job that I am well qualified for only because he has a problem with my ethnicity.
I don't believe that they have an all gay high school in Morocco like we have in New York City.
I don't believe that they are allowing Gay Marriages in Morocoo like they are here in the U.S. Some are even allowed to adopt children.
Sorry, but we do have gangs, some places the police never enters, specially in Casablanca and Sal?.
Bank robbery - true not much heard of.
Rape, Pedophily are big problems in morocco - even if not much talked about, caus the victims better shut up...
A lot of abandonned sniffing kids in the street, beggars everywhere.
Armed robbery / road rage Don't worry for us, we have our share, especially road robbery at night
Gay school and marriages no for sure not, but there is a great gay and also more generally sex tourism going on, more specifically in marrakech and prostitution is high everywhere.Now to racism Ok no kukluxklan - but you're a dreamer if you believe that people are not racist here cause morocco is a real melting pot.
I experience racism on a regular basis, cause i'm "gouria" or "nasrania" and because people think that i don't understand them...
Things get even better when i walk the streets with my best friend who is senegalese. And for his side, he experiences another kind of racism, don't you worry.
I shared appartment with this friend for 2 years and could have gone to jail for it. Do you think this is normal ?
A french friend of mine married a moroccan girl. She was so so ill treated in the street here that she got severe depression. They moved to France but as i hear it doesn't get much better there caus they live in the "cit?" where mentality is the same and the doing even worse! Guess it ressembles your place. While living here they often finished their day at the police coz you don't usually carry your marriage contract with you!Then there is a general corruption, police brutality on peaceful demonstrators (right in front of my place and quite often). The worst of all is the hypocrisy of it all!
Why do i stay ? Cause i wont leave my kids behind and i wont kidnap them either. And also, crazy to say but i still like it here. Coz there is a warmth in many moroccans that you don't find in europe or america!
mquran
If you're a disembodied consciousness, sure. Sadly, most of us if not all, manifest in this world as physical bodies. Therefore, physical satisfaction cannot be overlooked in order to attain inner peace.
very ironic thank you. but i stand on my position. I never said that physical satisfaction - or well being - is unimportant, never said either that i actually attained inner peace. Just working on it and trying to keep the balance.
damon wrote
We can have inner peace all we want, but in a place like the U.S. that inner peace can and will be infringed upon by others who lack that same inner peace. You can count on thatYou can count on that anyplace, in diverse degrees. Migration is a solution though when things get too dangerous.
Peace, lk
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SaLaM
I dont find anything wrong with this notion. Infact, it has my support.Great! So when do you leave? I checked the map. And there is a Island just of the North of the Bermuda Triangle. You better move fast and "carve out" a domain of power for yourself on that Island and declare yourself the King before mquran gets there or else there will be a power struggle! -)
One more question before you go - what are planning to do with your possessions? I guess you won't need them on that Island since you will be living like Adamic idyll and will be using shells for currency or bird feathers perhaps. So you can leave your possesions with me ok (especially the money and your house? -)
Regards,
p.s. I will drive you to the airport if you need a lift... -)
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Elke Attainment of peace is possible only within yourself
.If you're a disembodied consciousness, sure. Sadly, most of us if not all, manifest in this world as physical bodies. Therefore, physical satisfaction cannot be overlooked in order to attain inner peace.
I say Inner peace is to do with our soul. We can have that inner peace in our soul and yet suffer physical discomfort.
Regards,
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Peace all and especially to Elke,
Dear damon, you seem to have a lot of anger
Actually, it isn't anger. It is concern about my environment and the people that I have to share my society with.
But you dont know morocco.
Yes, I respect that and I also realize that visiting Morocco doesn't give me the same knowledge about it as you have as a resident there.
Sorry, but we do have gangs, some places the police never enters, specially in Casablanca and Sal?.
Do any of these "gangs" have 12 and 13 year old kids with guns? Are the members of these "gangs" shooting and murdering others on an everyday basis? Last week, in my hometown alone, there were four murders that happened back to back in less than a day. This is a normal everyday thing here!! Is it a normal everyday thing in Morocco?
A petty street gang is nothing compared to the Crips, Bloods, Vice Lords and other gangs we have here where they are killing each other on an everyday basis, fighting for drug territory and 13 year old kids taking guns to school and having senseless gang violence and shoot-outs. I have some friends that I keep in touch with in Morocco and if what they always tell me is true, then the gangs of the level that we have here in the United States do not exist anywhere near that level in Morocco.
A lot of abandonned sniffing kids in the street, beggars everywhere.
I am already aware of that which is why I didn't mention it. In fact, I have seen this with my own eyes when was there. Directly across the street from the Grand $800,000 Le Mosque Hassan Deux (The King Hassan II Mosque in Casablanca) are beggars and homeless people....many of them abandoned, single moms. Truly disgraceful.
Gay school and marriages no for sure not, but there is a great gay and also more generally sex tourism going on, more specifically in marrakech and prostitution is high everywhere.
I am already aware of the prostitution and the fact that there are gay people in Morocco. What I was speaking on was Gay Marriages and All Gay High Schools. I truly doubt that the majority of Moroccans would ever allow such things to become institutions there as they are here.
Armed robbery / road rage Don't worry for us, we have our share, especially road robbery at night
Are the drivers there driving with guns in hand and shooting and killing other drivers at will? If you believe that I am either making this up or over dramatizing this just ask any U.S. citizen here on this forum. Don't just take my word for it.
Now to racism Ok no kukluxklan - but you're a dreamer if you believe that people are not racist here cause morocco is a real melting pot.
My only point was the KKK and other groups such as the Aryan Nation. The reaction to these groups are The Black Panther Party and the Nation of Islam. I am aware that the Arabs there in Morocco can be pretty harsh to non-Arabs...espicially if one is both non-arab and non "muslim".
Then there is a general corruption, police brutality on peaceful demonstrators (right in front of my place and quite often). The worst of all is the hypocrisy of it all!
The whole world knows this and it is not unique to Morocco, this goes on in almost all of the so-called muslim countries.
When it's all said and done, Morocco definately is not paradise on earth. In fact, there is no paradise on earth. BUT, there is that one thing that Morocco definately has over the United States, something that I have experienced first hand when I was there. And you have pointed it out yourself.......
there is a warmth in many moroccans that you don't find in europe or america!
I personally bear witness to that and I believe that there is more value in that than you possibly may not realize somewhat.
Peace,
Damon. -
SaLaM LT
Ok, dont get all hysterical. Tell me 10 bad things or effects which will be caused by doing this.
I might miss your posts for one. Since you will not have access to internet on that Island -)
Regards,
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Salaamun alaikum Damon,
The reason that I have avoided this discussion is because I have already been down this road. You and I simply differ as to who or what a messenger is, as well as the role that this person plays. There's nothing you or I can do about that. You see it the way you do and I see it the way I do and I no longer have the energy it takes to get into those kinds of discussions
I have no problem with that. On the contrary, I salute you for this initiative and wish you all the best.
The reason I brought it up is because, once you are without a messenger, problems will rise about administration. How will handle those problems, theoretically speaking?
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Peace All,
Damon, while I once fantasized about the creation of a society similar to what you've expressed, I no longer feel it is necessary for a few reasons, none of which entails a pessimism.
As has been stated, I feel peace must be attained and well-established from within prior to any external venturing. But more importantly, I think one of the misconceptions and, really, crippling mindsets, that I found myself stuck in was a need or hope for an extrinsic peace somewhere in the future.
Peace is "Now". It does not require any extrinsic energy. It is within, at this moment. I've always enjoyed the example of a palm tree in the middle of a hurricane. It bends with the force of the wind. It remains flexible and adapts, but neven loses it's purpose, and that is to nourish the atmosphere and the wildlife arround it. Imagine if palm trees decided they no longer liked the chaos of hurricane alley and unplugged their roots and marched up north to join the "peaceful" pine trees. All the animals that depend on palm trees for shelter and food would be stranded.
Our job is to gain inner peace, and promote that peace right where we are. We need to contribute whenever we can, wherever we are. On the other hand, if you feel it is simply unsafe, then it is your reponsibility to your family and your self to get out of harm's way.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay,
Our job is to gain inner peace, and promote that peace right where we are. We need to contribute whenever we can, wherever we are. On the other hand, if you feel it is simply unsafe, then it is your reponsibility to your family and your self to get out of harm's way.
You know something Tay....you're right. In all actuality, I knew what you said in the quote above is correct all along. I basically wanted to see people's reactions here to such a view. The reactions serve as an indicator as to where certain individuals heads are at and in what stage we are in in this movement that they call "GOD Alone".
Thanx everyone for your thoughts and input.
Salaamun 'Alaiykum,
Damon. -
Salaam damon,
sure , you're right when you say that gangs are not as bad as in the us, but then again i guess these gangs are not everywhere in the us and may be you could live in a smaller town where things are not that bad.
Now, to gay marriages and that stuff. I believe that the fact that these things exist denote more the freedom left to the people - which i think is a good thing - than the actual state of society. I think gay people will be gay, if they live openly or in the hidden. I won't judge them even though i do think it's not "natural", and i would not mind living in a society where this is accepted - but ok that's me! But true, i'd go nuts about an all gay highschool - just because it's still kids ands no adults making their private choice. This is really crazy - where is it ?
KKK and aryen nation we have our good old integrists - specially salafist - going around with knife to punish girls showing too much skin and also trying to bomb places. Thanks to the power of the police here, 'til now they only managed once (16 of may was it 2002?). There's not much talking about this here, cause in general people don't know these things, but true, press is becoming freer now.
Ok, but enough of this now. I understood from the rest of your posts that our positions are nearer than what i first thought, so no need for further discussion.
Peace, Elke
