Migration - The 'KEY' To A GOD Alone Society???
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Salam Br Jaxal,
But Brother don't you think it is a must to have a messenger in God to lead a people in a community like the one we want and longing for to create!?
A leader makes me think of anyone who wants to stand in the frontline.
Peace
sis Majidah -
Salaamun alaikum,
But Brother don't you think it is a must to have a messenger in God to lead a people in a community like the one we want and longing for to create!?
That's exactly right, Majidah. I don't see the problem in expecting a messenger lead the movement. Look at this verse
And how would ye deny Faith while unto you are rehearsed the Signs of Allah, and AMONG YOU IS THE MESSENGER? Whoever holds firmly to Allah will be shown a way that is straight (3/101)
So can we become kafirs now just because Muhammad ibn Abdullah is dead? )
A rasul is one who is the messenger in person form.
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Salaam Br MQ,
Yes that verse says it all.
Quran is an ongoing Scripture so the messenger can be any messenger it depends which centuary we live in.
I truly believe that there is or going to step forward a messenger who will guide us.
And only we who have this right beliefs are able to witness him.
Nothing for the literally deaf and blind.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
SaLaM Joe
How many kinds of messengers are we talking about that we are suddenly confused on the defination of the word? When i speak of a messenger i mean the messenger of God like Prophet Muhammad or Jesus or Moses. Im not calling some tom dick and harry a messenger.
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SaLaM Joe
I am not concerned about any numbers. I think you are confused ?
There are people who believe that Jesus is comming back to lead the ummah and defeat the evil and so on. Mquran, is that what you think will happen? Are you expecting a messenger of God , i.e Jesus, to come down and lead you?
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Salaam Jaxal,
I am not concerned about any numbers. I think you are confused ?
How many kinds of messengers are we talking about that we are suddenly confused on the defination of the word?
Here is what I am talking about if you are still confused. Can you comprehend what you are writing?
There are people who believe that Jesus is comming back to lead the ummah and defeat the evil and so on.
What has that got to do with anything MQ or anyone else on this thread is talking about regarding rusul as leaders?
Are you expecting a messenger of God , i.e Jesus, to come down and lead you?
Keep dreaming buddy. No one is talking about these things. No one is claiming rusul to come will be old rusul returning.
Joe
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SaLaM Joe
Brother there is only one kind of messenger that i am talking about. Messengers of God i.e Jesus, Moses , Prophet Mohammad.
My dear brother mquran wrote
I don't see the problem in expecting a messenger lead the movement.
To this i said
There are people who believe that Jesus is comming back to lead the ummah and defeat the evil and so on. Mquran, is that what you think will happen? Are you expecting a messenger of God , i.e Jesus, to come down and lead you?
I hope you understand now.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Your latter statement is a tangent. MQ was not talking about Jesus returning. He is talking about a rasool to come. One or more at one time if that is the case.
So please, stop stressing your Jesus returning assumption because no one here BUT YOU is talking about such things.
Joe
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SaLaM Joe
mquran is talking about a messenger / rasool. And it this is different for the beliefs of OTHER people that Jesus will be comming bcoz.....?? Maybe he is not specifically talking about Jesus, but when he says messenger/rasool, who does it leave that is remotely considered to come back ? I know of only Jesus that is remotely considered that he will be comming back. There is no other messenger. Has God said there will be a messenger comming? Who chooses a messenger? humans? or God? There have been many acclaimed messengers like RK, Ilijah or Shareef. Do you beleive they are messengers? If a person says "i believe a messenger will come " i think it is safe to assume that he is not talking about some Tom, Dick and Harry. There are only one kind of messengers. Messengers of God. God chooses them. And i dont beleive any messenger is returning.
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Salaam Jaxal,
(1) - Nowhere does Allah say there will be no more rusul.
- I want you to prove otherwise.
(2) Allah states that to each people rusul are sent.
- I want you to prove otherwise.
who does it leave that is remotely considered to come back ?
NO ONE IS COMING BACK!!!! My goodness man, are you paying attention?
Anyone who takes up the station of rasool will be such a one.
Joe
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SaLaM Joe
I dont think YOU are paying attention to what i am saying. Stop jumping to conclusions. To make it easier, i will use points
1] I DO NOT believe nor disbelieve that Jesus is comming back. I havent made up my mind on this matter yet. But nevertheless, i am NOT saying that he will come back.
2] There is only ONE kind of messenger. Messenger of God.
3] God chooses messengers. Not humans.
So even IF a messenger came, it is not up to us to choose him/her to be a mesenger. That is IF a messenger is sent. IF being the important word. Only God sends messenger.
(1) - Nowhere does Allah say there will be no more rusul.
- I want you to prove otherwise.
Well see this is the thing. A messenger is someone who is given a book. Like Moses was given the Torah. Jesus was given the Bible and Prophet Muhammad was given the Quran. Now, i dont find anywhere in the Quran which states that there wont be no more messengers BUT Quran DOES states that there wont be anymore more prophets/nabi . Hence, why i am still undecided on the whole issue of Jesus not comming back. And that is why i said that a remote possibility that Jesus is comming back. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the statment. Im simply stating it.
(2) Allah states that to each people rusul are sent.
- I want you to prove otherwise.
I agree with you on this. Our messenger/rusool has been sent. I.E Prophet Muhammad.
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Salaamun alaikum,
MajidahQuran is an ongoing Scripture so the messenger can be any messenger it depends which centuary we live in.
Yes, otherwise many parts of the Quran will be invalid. This is a ridiculous notion.
JaxalThere are people who believe that Prophet Isa will come back. Are u expecting Jesus to come back and lead this country? Comon.
As Joe says, I don't believe in such a thing. I do however expect all messengers to follow the way of Isa as well.
How many kinds of messengers are we talking about that we are suddenly confused on the defination of the word? When i speak of a messenger i mean the messenger of God like Prophet Muhammad or Jesus or Moses. Im not calling some tom dick and harry a messenger.
These quranic personalities are meant to be copied. So in effect, the copiers become messengers themselves. Don't expect the Quran to speak of an 'age of messengers'.
So even IF a messenger came, it is not up to us to choose him/her to be a mesenger. That is IF a messenger is sent. IF being the important word. Only God sends messenger.
Agreed. God sends a messenger but nowhere does God close the door of messengership.
Well see this is the thing. A messenger is someone who is given a book. Like Moses was given the Torah. Jesus was given the Bible and Prophet Muhammad was given the Quran. Now, i dont find anywhere in the Quran which states that there wont be no more messengers BUT Quran DOES states that there wont be anymore more prophets/nabi . Hence, why i am still undecided on the whole issue of Jesus not comming back. And that is why i said that a remote possibility that Jesus is comming back. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the statment. Im simply stating it.
Nowhere does the Quran say a messenger brings a NEW BOOK. A 'new book' isnt a quranic concept.
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Peace
Im sorry Jaxal, but Jesus did not come with the Bible. thats a creation by the Council of Niecea, a roman sun worshipping emporer, and old manuscripts based mainly on early fertility cults, who used amanita muscaira, and psilocybin mushrooms to reach God.
Im a suporter of the idea that messengers will come. What do you think was Jesus and Mohammad? people who fell out of the sky and was incredibly holy? no they where Joeschmoe untill people recognised them as messengers.
However, i am against the founding of ANY government structure. If you need someone to tell you what is right and wrong, you have some serious issues.
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Salaam Jaxal,
I dont think YOU are paying attention to what i am saying.
Believe me, I am paying attention. Since you are not, and not even aware of what you were saying in some instances, then I invite you to re-read all the posts thus far.
1] I DO NOT believe nor disbelieve that Jesus is comming back. I havent made up my mind on this matter yet. But nevertheless, i am NOT saying that he will come back.
I do not care. This has got nothing to do with anything here. You're coming out of deep left field with this stuff.
2] There is only ONE kind of messenger. Messenger of God.
No there is not. Just as there is not just one kind of hadeeth, such as hadeeth of Muhammad. Just to keep on track here, we are talking about rusul and them being leaders. Not rusul being only rusul Allah or rusul being former rusul returned to lead us.
3] God chooses messengers. Not humans.
Still coming out of left field. I'm not sure where anyone said that WE must pick out Allah's envoys.
A messenger is someone who is given a book.
Allah has not sent bounded material from the sky to rusul.
Like Moses was given the Torah.
The quran does not approve of your assertion. Musa was given al-kitab and al-furqun.
Jesus was given the Bible and Prophet Muhammad was given the Quran.
The quran does not approve of your assertion. Isa was not given the Bible.
I agree with you on this. Our messenger/rusool has been sent. I.E Prophet Muhammad.
If I use your line of thought, then perhaps Noah should have been our rasool since he too is a member of the community holding onto the rope of Allah. No, Muhammad is not the rasool among us or sent to us.
Joe