sex before marriage
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Salaam Sis Taj,
I will kindly ask you if you enjoy and like your countries customs!?
I'm not either quite sure which country you are living in, is it SA?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Taj,
i got married in an islamic country as well - and forfeited the dowry, even though my then husband wanted me to conform so we would just do like everybody else...
I just can't dig it - i'm not something one can pay for.
But, as we say in germany "other countries - other customs".
LK
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Peace M,
Al Bighaa'a is mentioned in Ayah . The Quran mentions it very clearly.
Ah sorry, my mistake. I misunderstood you there and should have checked.
Yeah...It is clearly mentioned in Ayah as a profession known to the society.
Here's what 24/33 says about al-bighaa
wala tukrihoo fatayatikum AAala albigha-i in aradna tahassunanl itabtaghoo AAarada alhayati alddunya.
All it says is, don't force them onto al-bighaa when they desire chastity seeking worldliness.
You said Al Quran addresses it as a job that some women practice. I think that in the West this job exists, but maybe without the condition Married men are not allowed!
Where does al-quraan ever say 'some women practise this'Then what does Al Quran say about Al Bighaa'a? Does Al Quran say that Al Bighaa'a is a planet somewhere!!!???
and its ok if they are desperate ? These are all your assumptions, Taj.
My assumption!? Do you see any word of punishment for those girls?
...after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
You have skipped a lot!!!!So if Al Bighaa'a is not a job/a work for money, then what is it? Check the dictionaries, in any language you like!
If married people engage in sex from outside the marriage, this is Zina.
Hehe, nice one.
Too bad you think this is a joke!Except that the word 'zaani' and 'zaaniyah' refer to ANYONE (married or not) who engage in non-marital sex. .
That is your own understanding of Zina.This includes prostitution obviously. So the only way al-bighaa is allowed is if where you come from, the prostitutes just sing lullabies. .
Prostition is sex for money and as long as there are men who are willing to pay for it and there are women who need that money then that job will continue to exist.
Is prostitution a Zina? They are two different things although both involve sex. Al Zina is a Fa7ishah as described in Al Quran. Al Bighaa'a is not identified as such. There are desperate people in this world who cannot afford to marry but can buy some desperately needed satisfactions and Allah understands perfectly. There are limits to this fullfilment, and those who exceed those limits will have Allah waiting for them!In Ayah I see that it is a choice that the woman only owns and nobody else, not even her father. The Ayah shows the choice between protection and shelter provided by one "lasting" man or a living provided by temporary men. It is a choice that belongs to the woman only. The Ayah does not condemn the women who have to make the second choice. The Ayah asks the fathers not to control and force their daughters to go into that profession IF the daughters choose protection and shelter. What if the daughters wanted to go that way? The Ayah doesn't say anything about that decision.
Exactly. The ayat doesnt say anything but YOU say its OK.
Does the Quran say that Al Bighaa'a is Haram? How does Al Quran speak about it? Can you tell me your understanding of the way Al Quran addresses the issue?Hey its very easy for women to be whores.
How do you know?All they have to do is run thier business from inside closed doors
I don't have the right to judge those women especially when Allah Himself granted them mercy and forgiveness. I can only pray for more understanding.In a Quranic society, no one breaches the closed doors. That makes it legally ok, but morally ? If Allah says do not go near az-zinaa, this shows its morally degenerating and will ultimately destroy society. This by no means makes it 'ok'.
Nobody here has ever said that Al Zina is ok! -
Hey its very easy for women to be whores. All they have to do is run thier business from inside closed doors.
Peace mquran, it's clear that you are a man or said in another way, I think only a man would think like that.
If you meant another thing, it's ok. I am commenting as a result of that wording, especially the word "easy"
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Peace,
I don't understand this at all. There is no sex outside marriage. The quran clearly tells us to have patience.
425 If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
For God to say so clearly in so many verses that sex outside marriage is off and sex to anyone other than the spouse is off, and then just slip this in, oh for those of you who just absolutely have to have sex but don't have money to get married, thou shalt go ahead is illogical at best. It's clearly said in the above verse, who fear sin (here as sex outside marriage) to marry believing girls, as opposed to go ahead and do it with some prostitutes for pete's sake...It's beyong comprehension how prostitution is a okay when sex outside marriage is a SIN. For God to encourage sin by saying it's okay is ridiculous.
There are desperate people in this world who cannot afford to marry but can buy some desperately needed satisfactions and Allah understands perfectly
/
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Peace All,
I urge everybody here to read a book written by the famous Moroccan writer Muhammad Chokry. It is titled ?The Barefoot Bread?. He writes candidly about his life and sufferings and also about his experience with one prostitute whom he fell in love with. When he proposed to her, she turned him down. She told him that he is too poor to provide for her and her children. Marriage for her will be below survival.
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Peace SC,
Ayah speaks about yet another form of contracts, but patience should still be a better option for those men.
What about women? Women have needs too! -)
I say both men and women like sex. FULLSTOP.
It is just that women's sexuality has been surpressed by men for thousands of years!
Regards,
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Interesting discussion!
Taj can you please clearify the following verse for me. Arabic seems to be your first language and I have to relly on transalation and try to find out the meaning of each and every word.
43 If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
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Salaam Br KGB,
That translation you use is not good, why you don't use the translation the progressive islam have done!?
it goes like this 43 And if you fear you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry those whom you see fit from their mothers, two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you already betrothed to. This is best that you do not face hardship.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Peace LT,
Ayah speaks about yet another form of contracts, but patience should still be a better option for those men.
What about women? Women have needs too! -)I say both men and women like sex. FULLSTOP.
It is just that women's sexuality has been surpressed by men for thousands of years!
Sex hormones are not equal in men and women.
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Taj Then what does Al Quran say about Al Bighaa'a? Does Al Quran say that Al Bighaa'a is a planet somewhere!!!???
Al-quraan simply says this
wala tukrihoo fatayatikum AAala albigha-i in aradna tahassunanl itabtaghoo AAarada alhayati alddunyaThat's ALL. Don't force your maidens into al-bighaa. Does it say ANYWHERE that al-bighaa is ok?
The only planet in the whole discussion is the planet you're living on where Islam is ok with prostitution D
My assumption!? Do you see any word of punishment for those girls?
...after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
You have skipped a lot!!!!The text goes waman yukrihhunna fa-inna Allaha min baAAdi ikrahihinnaghafoorun raheemun
This is talking about THE COMPELLER, 'yukrihunna' doesn't the refer to the people BEING FORCED.
Too bad you think this is a joke!
I think you're a joke for try to import culture into ad-deen.
That is your own understanding of Zina.
Actually, checking the Arabic, it's THE understanding of zinaa. Now if you find it wrong, please provide your evidence and unless some brothel produced your dictionary, I'll be very happy to check .
If zinaa ONLY includes married people, then why did Sharia law need to prevent the extrapolation of 24/2?Prostition is sex for money and as long as there are men who are willing to pay for it and there are women who need that money then that job will continue to exist.
Kufr will exist for all times too. Is that also 'OK' ?
Is prostitution a Zina? They are two different things although both involve sex. Al Zina is a Fa7ishah as described in Al Quran. Al Bighaa'a is not identified as such. There are desperate people in this world who cannot afford to marry but can buy some desperately needed satisfactions and Allah understands perfectly. There are limits to this fullfilment, and those who exceed those limits will have Allah waiting for them!
Allah understands perfectly? Wow, you're His spokesperson now
Here's when Allah shows his understandingAAalima Allahuannakum kuntum takhtanoona anfusakum fatabaAAalaykum waAAafa AAankum
(Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you - 2/187)Nowhere does he anything about al-bighaa in that tone. All He said was, don't force your maids into it and whoever forces will be given maghfirah thereafter.
Nobody here has ever said that Al Zina is ok!
No, but you were clever enough to manipulate the translation of az-zinaa.
Other than the other-worldly translation you have of az-zinaa, prostitution IS zinaa and zinaa is NOT ok. -
Salaamun alaikum Elena,
Peace mquran, it's clear that you are a man or said in another way, I think only a man would think like that.
If you meant another thing, it's ok. I am commenting as a result of that wording, especially the word "easy"
I mean legally, dear sister. Legally, no one in a quranic society can stop any woman who prostitutes herself behind closed doors. Of course, for any moral woman, doing such a thing must be terrible to say the least.
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Salaamun alaikum KGB ,
Firstly, 'thier mothers' isn't in the verse at all. My understanding is, if we cannot be just to the orphans, we are to marry the females among them who are fair-seeming to us in numbers or if we fear unfairness, only one of them (the fair-seeming female orphans) OR a lady already in our household.
hope that helps.
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Peace LT,
Ayah speaks about yet another form of contracts, but patience should still be a better option for those men.
What about women? Women have needs too! -)I say both men and women like sex. FULLSTOP.
It is just that women's sexuality has been surpressed by men for thousands of years!
Sex hormones are not equal in men and women.
Men and women have equal sex drive. It just that women were never free to express their sexuality for thousands of years because of tryanny of men.
Regards,
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The text goes waman yukrihhunna fa-inna Allaha min baAAdi ikrahihinnaghafoorun raheemun
This is talking about THE COMPELLER, 'yukrihunna' doesn't the refer to the people BEING FORCED.
So you are saying that Allah will be merciful and forgiving for the compeller, the compeller who is benfitting from those innocent girls, but not for the girls who were forced to do something against their will!!! Not only you are lacking logic, but also basic Arabic.Nobody here has ever said that Al Zina is ok!
No, but you were clever enough to manipulate the translation of az-zinaa.
Other than the other-worldly translation you have of az-zinaa, prostitution IS zinaa and zinaa is NOT ok.So according to you, Allah is in short of words. Using two completely different words in completely different situations to mean one thing! Take care!
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So you are saying that Allah will be merciful and forgiving for the compeller, the compeller who is benfitting from those innocent girls, but not for the girls who were forced to do something against their will!!! Not only you are lacking logic, but also basic Arabic.
I definitely lack 'prostitute-loving' Arabic which you posess which can LIE about zaani and zaaniyah
But do teach me please Taj, after all, you must be a real expert. What's the meaning of 'YUKRIHUNNA. Isn't 'hunna' the third person pronoun ONLY FOR WOMEN? Come on Taj, bring out the dictionary which says 'zaani' is only a married person as it may help you manipulate the grammar too, lol.
So according to you, Allah is in short of words. Using two completely different words in completely different situations to mean one thing! Take care!
Rubbish. Zinaa needn't include the fees ! Prostitution must include the fees! And you're telling me about logic? Come on!
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Peace mquran,
Hey its very easy for women to be whores. All they have to do is run thier business from inside closed doors.
Peace mquran, it's clear that you are a man or said in another way, I think only a man would think like that. If you meant another thing, it's ok. I am commenting as a result of that wording, especially the word "easy"
I mean legally, dear sister. Legally, no one in a quranic society can stop any woman who prostitutes herself behind closed doors. Of course, for any moral woman, doing such a thing must be terrible to say the least
Ahhh! OK.
Isn't the language exciting?
You meant that it is very easy for prostitutes to hidden their activity and you wrote, I suppose in haste, that it very easy for women to be whores!!
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