How Authentic is the Quran?
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Why do u want me to keep repeating myself? The very nature of this discussion provides the answer to first question. And the links i have given answers ur seconds question.
Fair enough. So you DO believe the present Quran has been altered. Good.
Secondly, the links you provided say this, essentially That there are MANUSCRIPTS in certain places which are different from the 'modern quran' so to speak.
Now, this is something which hasn't been said WHY do you believe this? Given the situation, I will rephrase for your convenience what makes you choose to believe this person's assertion over God's assertion?
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SaLaM mquran
I will choose to believe the evidence not the person. Lets get that straight. Even before this, i knew there were alterations in the Quran. letters were added to make the pronounciation easier for the people in countries such as africa. Its the different pronounciation of the Quran. Im sure you know about it. Even sunnis admit to that. They just choose to beleive that it is ok to add letters to the Quran as to make it easier to pronounce.
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I will choose to believe the evidence not the person. Lets get that straight. Even before this, i knew there were alterations in the Quran. letters were added to make the pronounciation easier for the people in countries such as africa. Its the different pronounciation of the Quran. Im sure you know about it. Even sunnis admit to that. They just choose to beleive that it is ok to add letters to the Quran as to make it easier to pronounce.
So from what SUNNIS admit to you, you believe the Quran has been altered ? What Allah tells u is not worth the bother, right?
Excellent, Jaxal. You reveal more of yourself day by day. -
SaLam mquran
Why shouldnt i beleive them if they can provide me the evidence? Can you refute that evidence? I havent seen anyone refute that evidence. Unlike you, i dont care where the evidence comes from. As long as its accurate. Now, unless you or anyone on this forum can bring a counter proof to that, you dont really have much to say apart from it being a sunni source or a christian source. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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Why shouldnt i beleive them if they can provide me the evidence? Can you refute that evidence? I havent seen anyone refute that evidence. Unlike you, i dont care where the evidence comes from. As long as its accurate. Now, unless you or anyone on this forum can bring a counter proof to that, you dont really have much to say apart from it being a sunni source or a christian source.
Actually, I don't care where evidence comes from either. However, with reference to the underlined section in the above quote, 'as long as its accurate', i'd like to ask you these questions
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what determines accuracy?
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who sets the criteria for this determination?
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Why dont you show me something to refute this evidence brought forward. Then we can talk about determining whats accurate or not
No no, this has nothing to do with my views yet. YOU claim this evidence is accurate (please see above). Don't you know WHY its accurate. Is it accurate because they told you so? Why can't you tell us why its accurate? Or can any devil beguile you with words and u'll believe him (6/112-113) ?
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Not that it would matter. But i have seen the difference with my own eyes. Now, you prove to me its wrong
So any idiot can produce a goatskin with quranic writings on it and you'd use that as evidence ? As long as its in a museum , of course? Is that right , Jaxal ?
Tell me where the Quran says we should use these 'manuscripts' for proof of its authenticity. For the very first time in our discussion, lets bring God into it.
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Everything is wrong. You are right
Jaxal, you're a big waste of time. The truth is, you have no idea why you believe in anything. That's not a problem in itself as long as you're willing to self-examine, rather than keep evading the issue. If I were you, I do some reading, some thinking and ponder on the Quran. Actually open it if you believe its from Allah and take your concepts from there. Im more than willing to answer your directly because I have the evidence and thus can speak for myself. If im wrong, show me why and i will correct my views. I dont post threads which i've never read and expect that to be my answer. That kind of thing is the sole domain of empty vessels.
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SaLaM mquran
No your are just mad coz evidence was smacked in ur face and you couldnt refute it. Your embaressed, which is understandable. But if this is how you will learn, then tough. With you its either a conspiracy theory or innovations by the evil scholors. Do your research before getting into an argument mquran. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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LOL. So a goatskin in a museum is EVIDENCE? Jaxal, seriously go back to Sunnism. You're a sunni, pal. You need sunni style information to validate you. Some museum piece for you constitutes EVIDENCE. You need some hajjis in Saudi in Arabia to elucidate Quranic concepts for you. My God, you're about as Quranic as the pope. At least the Pope can admit he doesn't believe in Allah's words. You however want to pretend to you do and still believe in your goatskins. Funny, real funny. Its good to meet people like you. Helps us appreciate why we left Sunnism.
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SaLaM mquran
And yet, the fact remains that there is nothing you have to refute this evidence. If the evidence is soo weak, why dont u simply refute it by bringing some evidence of your own? http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
Look mquran, getting all hysterical and making a fool of urself isnt the right way to go about it. Instead, research on this topic a bit more. Then judge from a biased mind. Ok? May God guide you. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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And yet, the fact remains that there is nothing you have to refute this evidence. If the evidence is soo weak, why dont u simply refute it by bringing some evidence of your own?
Oh no, I have nothing the likes of you would value. Only Quranic verses I'm afraid. Nothing you would give 2 cents for.
Look mquran, getting all hysterical and making a fool of urself isnt the right way to go about it. Instead, research on this topic a bit more. Then judge from a biased mind. Ok? May God guide you.
Hysterical? Dude, since I have to miss the Simpsons thanks to work, you have been the biggest laugh so I have to thank you actually. As for research, if you think i've not done any, that's not my problem. I suggest you ask brother Mark though, through www.aperfectquran.co.uk. I sent him a refutation 7 years ago. He thinks like you too )
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SaLaM mquran
If you have refuted it 7 years ago, why dont you tell me all about it? Are you shy? Is memory failing you? Maybe i can learn something from it if its worthy of it. You have to stop this whole 'everything i dont agree with is a sunni conspiracy' rant and ACTUALLY provide something useful to the discussion. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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I believe in the words of God. The following verse enough for me to believe that Qur'an is free of altertaftion modification addition or deletion.
159 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
I don'tf need to read rubbish written by pseudo intelectuals to prove otherwise.
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I believe in the words of God. The following verse enough for me to believe that Qur'an is free of altertaftion modification addition or deletion.
159 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
If a book claims to be free from modification and alteration then it is true is it? How does it make it true?
I don'tf need to read rubbish written by pseudo intelectuals to prove otherwise.
Are you scared that you might learn something new?
Regards,
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If you have refuted it 7 years ago, why dont you tell me all about it? Are you shy? Is memory failing you? Maybe i can learn something from it if its worthy of it. You have to stop this whole 'everything i dont agree with is a sunni conspiracy' rant and ACTUALLY provide something useful to the discussion
Because, as I said, there's no point in discussing it with you. You have already adopted Brother Mark's classification system. So that's no problem at all with me. What do I care if you believe the Quran has been altered despite the verse KGB put forth? Stew in your beliefs mate
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SaLaM mquran
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Meaning you cant do it. Ok. That is all you had to say mquran. Actually, maybe you can help me. I am having trouble finding a verse in the Quran which says that the Quran is complete. Can you plz find me 1 verse which says that Quran is complete mquran? Id be really greatful.