sex before marriage
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Salaam all,
I agree with br Damon that this is an terrible thread.
For the last time I will once more point out that I can't really see that any truebeliever male or female out of desperation will commit illicit sexual acts.
Even if a truebeliever can be desperate he/she will seek God and ask for advice and to achieve peace again in his/her life.
Sister Taj These so called muslims you are talking about who practise zina can't be muslims in peace and muslims not in peace are a sad story because they don't seek help from God, they don't trust God but trust Shaitan, it s shaitan who will lead them into the temptations.
Peace
Sister MajidahP.s Don't defend peoples sinful acts
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Salaamun alaikum,
Majidah Sister Taj These so called muslims you are talking about who practise zina can't be muslims in peace and muslims not in peace are a sad story because they don't seek help from God, they don't trust God but trust Shaitan, it s shaitan who will lead them into the temptations.
That's exactly right, Majidah. Musa said O my people! If ye do (really) believe in Allah, then in Him put your trust if ye submit (10/84). I wish more people would trust Allah rather than evil cultural norms they make excuses for.
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SaLaM LT
Even the Mullahs with long beards like sex very much!
And the ones I know usually have 9 or 10 kids!That is so true loll. DId u hear about the muslim population outgrowing the christian population by the end of 2050 in UK? llooooooll. How do you think this will be accomplished. loooool. Every imam thinks its his duty to have a football team in his house. Looooll rotfl
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Peace Majidah,
Sister Taj These so called muslims you are talking about who practise zina can't be muslims in peace and muslims not in peace are a sad story because they don't seek help from God, they don't trust God but trust Shaitan, it s shaitan who will lead them into the temptations.
I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .P.s Don't defend peoples sinful acts
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
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Taj I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .
Zina (according to Taj herself) = sex outside marriage.
Al-bighaa = an act where a man pays a woman NOT MARRIED TO HIM to have sex with her.
Ergo al-bgihaa is a subset of az-zinaa.
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
Despite all the evidence...wow.
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Taj I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .
Zina (according to Taj herself) = sex outside marriage.
Al-bighaa = an act where a man pays a woman NOT MARRIED TO HIM to have sex with her.
Ergo al-bgihaa is a subset of az-zinaa.
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
Despite all the evidence...wow.
Peace all,
I don't think this is a terrible thread at all. What I am worried about are socially constructed ideals seeping INTO the discussion.
To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth.
I say this simply because the God uses very precise words to convey the message and perhaps we should take a closer look at the conceptual similarities and differences of the words being used regardless of what we think and agree with.
peace.
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SaLaM Salikah
You mean like when two people decide to live together, have babies and all that but without any 'marriage' ? I think, that makes sense then.
Mquran, this is a free forum. Everyone is welcomed here to have their own belief. You need to stop making it personal when someone disagrees with you.
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Peace Salikah,
I don't think this is a terrible thread at all.
I didn't understand the "This is a terrible thread!" comment! I mean aren't we supposed to study the Quran? The whole 114 Suwarr!?What I am worried about are socially constructed ideals seeping INTO the discussion
Let me tell about something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I called on the phone one big Ullamah here in my country who is on hotline answering questions from ananymous callers, and I asked "Sir, why is it Haram for the woman to perform salaat during the mensus? I read the whole Quran and couldn't find anywhere that says that women should stop salaat during that time? And you know sir, Salaat is the backbone of religion, so how can a woman break her religion!?"
And Salikah, you wouldn't believe the curses he fired at me on the phone just because I dared to question it!!!To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth.
I say this simply because the God uses very precise words to convey the message and perhaps we should take a closer look at the conceptual similarities and differences of the words being used regardless of what we think and agree with.
Perfectly said! Allah does not shy away from Al Haq nor does He lacks words.
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Salam NoProgressive,
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The sin is when those women put their bodies in harm's way. The sin is when Allah gives you something i.e. your body, your health, your children, etc and then you don't take care of it. Some desperate people would sell their children, others would sell their kidneys, etc..
The thing is those women know that what they are doing is not right for themsleves but they are desperate.Oh gosh give me a break. Prostitution is a sin, becuase it causes all of those things. PLease don't say that prostitution isn't the sin. htat's like saying "doing crack isn't a sin... the harming of your body is".
salaam
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Salaamun alaikum Salikah,
To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth
Would you please point out where I have done this? I do my best to excise extra-quranic values from my thinking so if you could please point this out, that'd be good.
Here are my definitions thus far
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marriage a contract between a man and woman , 2 witnesses, the gift, and a period of iddah after the divorce if there's one. (so hooking would be rather difficult, dont u think, with 4 johns a year)
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zina sex without the above contract
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al-bighaa sex which is paid for but nothing else.
How did I import my personal feelings?
thanks and peace.
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I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The Ayah does not speak about slavery nor does it speak about sex for freedom. Can you point out in the Ayah where it says "sex for freedom" or "slavery", please?
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Salaam all,
I will leave this thread because I think I have already make sure that my high moral thinking has landed even if no one have noticed that
Wonders what that can mean, Majidah!!!???Use your God given brains
Peace
Sis Majidah -
sex consumates a marriage, and my personal interpretation is that you can have sex with someone....and then youre married. So considder carefully what you do. Because if it doesnt work out there is a 4 month waiting period, before you can redo it.
)Mashallah! - This fits perfectly. I was looking at the problem backwards - no wonder it didn't make sense.
The 4 month rule is sufficient to detremine if the girl is pergnant or if the anyone has any STDs.
peace
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SALAAM,
Only a correction, it is 3 month waiting period.
4 month goes for widows I guess!
Peace Sis Majidah
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Salaam Jaxal,
I didn't really get your opinion on this.
Quran 2226-228 For those who are discontent with their wives,let them wait for four months.If they reconcile,then God is Forgiving, Most Merciful.And if they insist on the divorce, then God is hearer,Knowledgeable.And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day.And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile...................
I just thought you meant that the women have to wait 3 month after the 3 month shock
But Quran are talking about men who want to divorce their wives but women who want to divorce their men!? Is the rule same for them? Well maybe not the 3 month waiting period though For the men I meant!
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Jaxal,
Ok, sorry that I misundertood u!
Peace
Sis Majidah -
As Salaam Alaikum,
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The Ayah does not speak about slavery nor does it speak about sex for freedom. Can you point out in the Ayah where it says "sex for freedom" or "slavery", please?
Oh gosh yes it does. Read it for yourself. I'm qutooign the same verse you have been quoting..
salaam
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As Salaam Alaikum,
sex consumates a marriage, and my personal interpretation is that you can have sex with someone....and then youre married. So considder carefully what you do. Because if it doesnt work out there is a 4 month waiting period, before you can redo it.
)Mashallah! - This fits perfectly. I was looking at the problem backwards - no wonder it didn't make sense.
The 4 month rule is sufficient to detremine if the girl is pergnant or if the anyone has any STDs.
peace
If sex means you are married, then why are we punished for fornication adn adultery????
salaam