Good, Evil And The battle We Have To Win.
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Peace O,
Thanks for articulating further.
Peace Tay, and thanks for the reply.
I noticed that you have mostly disagreed with my explanation, but I have also noticed that you did not understand what I meant fully, I will show you what you missed.You stated
The reason I am saying that fear is the opposite of love is because I believe that fear was created the minute we were separated from our source.
I believe this is the crux of the matter, and perhaps the dichotomy of my view and yours. See, I don?t think we were ever separated from our Source. I think separation is impossible.
I agree with you that separation is impossible, but I meant the mental separation. It is not about feeling that we are connected, it is about knowing that we are connected. If you do not know that you are connected, you would feel separated. Although separation happened as an illusion, this illusion seem very real to us. There is even a time and date for it; it is the time and day your mind has taken over.Absolute love existed and we knew for sure that we are one with everything. When that knowledge was taken away from us and replaced by ignorance (blankness), fear was born.
Rather than ignorance, I choose to understand birth as bliss. Babies are in constant awe of the universe. They are unconditionally happy. They are perfect. It is with knowledge that the illusion of separation begins. Harmony is not knowledge, it is knowing without thought.
It is the same thing, you can not say harmony is not knowledge then you say it is knowing, when you know you know knowledge, so harmony is knowing the knowledge. And I did not say anything about thought, this is a differnt subject. In reality I see that we agree more than we disagree, it is only that we are using different words for one meaning, or expressing the same meaning in a different way. A baby? connection is so intense because his brain is still developing, but one the ego takes over, the connection fades away and that person feel lonely and separated.
You can only attain harmony after knowing who you are, and to know who you are you have to face every fact of life, love and fear.
I disagree. There are plenty of examples of folks who have never had the chance to experience every fact of life. Homeless malnourished children who die of starvation never get to experience the gamut of human emotion. If what you say is true, then God is unfair, unjust. If the only path to harmony is to experience the full range of human emotion, then billions of people throughout time have been short changed.
Ok, there are plenty of examples of folks who have never had the chance to experience every fact of life, but the question is did they attain harmony? I did not say that people has to experience the full range of human emotion. You said that, not me, all I said is you have to face every fact of life that confronts you in your life. What I meant is, if someone stole you, face the reality of the rubbery, ask why you have been stolen, look for the reason inside your life in order for to understand why things happen. When you turn your back to what happens to you, you miss the opportunity to learn about your life.Rather, I say to know who you are you have to stop letting the mind dictate who your are. The mind is a product of the environment. It is the sum total of experiences. But that is not you. It is just the lens through which you experience this life.
...more to come when my eyelids aren't so heavy, Inshallah
Peace,
TayThis is a great teaching, I do sense that you have some great understanding about life. I used to talk the same way about the mind, then I changed my mind, I stopped generalising, it is true that the mind is a product of the environment, and it dictate to you in a selfish way, however, the mind is also a tool that helps understanding universal intelligence. So it is not only about stop letting the mind dictate who you are, you also should bring it to an intelligent level that is able to understand who you really are. I am not saying you have to, but this is one of the life facts, we are intelligent for a reason, we are able to acquire knowledge for a reason. You might not agree with me on that, but this is another subject we could talk about it under new Knowledge and Intelligence thread.
God bless
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Peace O,
Thanks for explaining further. It does seem that we are closer in our understandings than meets the eye, however, I do still see some differences - which is OK.
You stated
Although separation happened as an illusion, this illusion seem very real to us.
Agreed.
It is the same thing, you can not say harmony is not knowledge then you say it is knowing, when you know you know knowledge, so harmony is knowing the knowledge.
I disagree. The knowledge gained did not lead to harmony. The harmony is always there. It is with knowledge that I've learned to express this only. Knowledge, in fact, is the obstacle one must surpass/suppress in order to experience harmony.
A baby? connection is so intense because his brain is still developing, but once the ego takes over, the connection fades away and that person feel lonely and separated.
Exactly!
Ok, there are plenty of examples of folks who have never had the chance to experience every fact of life, but the question is did they attain harmony? I did not say that people has to experience the full range of human emotion. You said that, not me
Actually, O, what you said was "You can only attain harmony after knowing who you are, and to know who you are you have to face every fact of life, love and fear."
Again, this is where we differ. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think one has to face every aspect of human emotion in order to attain harmony.
I said is you have to face every fact of life that confronts you in your life. What I meant is, if someone stole you, face the reality of the rubbery, ask why you have been stolen, look for the reason inside your life in order for to understand why things happen. When you turn your back to what happens to you, you miss the opportunity to learn about your life.
I agree that one should face every experience as a learning experience, whether it seems good or bad.
This is a great teaching, I do sense that you have some great understanding about life.
Thank you for the kind words. The feeling is mutual.
I used to talk the same way about the mind, then I changed my mind, I stopped generalising
Did you change or did your mind change?
it is true that the mind is a product of the environment, and it dictate to you in a selfish way, however, the mind is also a tool that helps understanding universal intelligence
Absolutely. The mind is a tool. One should always maintain that understanding in order not to mistakenly identify with the tool.
So it is not only about stop letting the mind dictate who you are, you also should bring it to an intelligent level that is able to understand who you really are. I am not saying you have to, but this is one of the life facts, we are intelligent for a reason, we are able to acquire knowledge for a reason. You might not agree with me on that...
I do agree, atleast partially. The mind can be trained to express aspects of our true nature. But it cannot comprehensively express our nature, just as one cannot put into words the definition of "love", or "God". Our nature is eternal, infinite, while the mind is temporary. As they say, the orange cannot explain the orange tree.
It's been a pleasure chatting.
Peace,
Tay -
It is true that evil (Satan) does not exist,
I beg to differ...
Evil / Devil / Shaytan / The Serpent does exist...
Such as Angels does exist...
Such as Jinns / Spirits does exist... As also humans there are good and also evil Jinns / Spirits...As invisible to the naked eye as they are, does not necessarily mean they do not exist.. Maybe in the near future we have the necessary technology and tools to detect and prove their existence 'scientifically'.... Insha Allah...
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Peace Jaxal,
If you have trouble understanding, perhaps you should ask for articulation, rather than call those who's opinions are different than yours "mind-boggling shock "
I understand why and how both you and Jafar recognize shaytan as an entity that exists and I have no problem with it. It's OK to disagree. We don't have to choose sides bro. We're all just kids trying to understand. One God, One Love, everything else is just details.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace openurmind,
Good article but some mish-mash concerns.
Peace Danish, and thank, let?s clear the Mish-Mash then.
Love and fear became the two opposite forces behind our choices
Fear is not the opposite of Love; hate is. Several definitions fall under ?love? and ?hate?
Love is affection, amity, appreciation, a crush on, devotion, enjoyment, fondness, etc., while hate is abhorrence, animosity, resentment, antipathy, aversion, hostility, ill-will, revenge, etc.
Ok, you believe that the opposite of love is hate, but I believe hate is the opposite of what you think love to be . Please read my thread ?What is Love? http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4166
The question is why do we hate? How does hate sparks? Is there a prime reason behind its existence? I would say yes. We mostly hate because we do not understand or know the subject we hate, we might think we know it/him/her, but we never really reach the absolute knowing. We draw conclusions based on people?s actions, then we decide whom we hate and whom we love. That is why you could hate what I love and I could love what you hate. Yet when we say we love we just mean that that person is satisfying an image we hold in our mind that represents a need. True love is not really an emotion, it is a force, it is an absolute knowing that you are one with someone, with everything, that is why the rest of the universe in a state of harmony or love.
Hate is the opposite of love which you call love, while I never regard it as love. It as Elk put it
when you say love is dog crap, i guess you mean the love that is made mainly of egoism and possessiveness and mostly a love of your own ego even if disguised as "romantic" love. I don't even call this love. The French have a word for this "l'amour vache" - "cow love" but better translated as "mean love"...
Slm, lk
Fear can make you hate and not the other way around. You definition of love is from common everyday?s meaning, but not the universal point of view.Fear can lead to either love or hate, think about that one.
Was that easy! How come bro, could you prove that? I agree that fear could lead to hate and that makes fear the prime force. But how could fear lead to Love? Think about it. Fear could lead to all sort of things but not to love, love is the other prime force. You could never love who you fear, you love who you know to be one with, and those you never fear. And you fear who you do not know, tomorrow, the unknown. You always start by not knowing then you begin to know and when you know and understand you start to love. You could never start by knowing then become not knowing.
Look at it this way
You love, you know
You fear, you do not know. (Hate or whatever is just a by-product of fear)If you see evil winning remember that it was us who give it the power to, it was us who had the choice to let it win. Evil has no choice; it does not even exist unless we create it each second we fear. Whatever our source is, it knows the evil can not win as long as we have the will and the power to fight it.
If evil does not exist, then the question of being created, winning or overcoming it, becomes redundant. While fear is being afraid, agitation, despair, tremor, scared, panicky, etc., its opposite is bravery, valour, courage, boldness.
The devil does not exist, evil deeds do happen everyday in our life and because they happen we think of Evil (The Devil) as a being or a soul. So I meant we should overcome the evil deed and forget that the devil exists, we are only creating it by our belief that it exists, that is why the only power it has is the power we give to it over us by believing of its existence, however, it is just an illusion, the power is ours all the way. You say the opposites of fear are bravery, valour, courage, boldness, don?t you thing LOVE has any thing to do with all of those nice words. They are all by products of love. Bravery is motivated by love, as well as valour and courage, when you fight for a reason you believe in it is out of love for your family or your country or even yourself or God. Boldness is forthcoming form the self, only those who know themselves and love who they are can be bold. If you look closely at all the words you have been using, all the actions you have been taking, you would see only two motivations, two forces at work, either out of Love or out of Fear.
Selfish choices that have no regard for others are based on fears.
Personally I believe selfish choices are not based on fears but ego, arrogance, overconfidence, self-interest, haughtiness, etc.
And why the ego or the arrogance or overconfidence or self-interest or haughtiness exist? Your ego was created when you thought you are alone and you feared the others, ego came about to protect you form what you feel, fear. The mind created it because it could only act on what you know and you thought that what is outside yourself is not you. The ego shelled you from the outside world which you are in fact afraid of. It begin by not knowing and turned to fear. Fear = Lack of knowledge. While Love = Knowledge (knowing)We can only win through a battle, and a battle can only exist if the two prime opposites exist, Good and Evil, Love and fear. Avoiding evil does not mean that we are winning, without the confrontation and the fight, nothing can be gained. By leading a peaceful life without any struggles you are running away from the real fight, you are leaving the battlefield for other people to ensure its out come. Your contribution is important for you to become one with the whole.
One doesn?t need to battle (as in physical or emotional infliction) evil, hatred or fear. One can overcome these emotional addicts by consensus, reflection, meditation, counselling, avoidance and finding alternative solutions for themselves rather than confrontations, animosity, revenge and hence worsening the situation.
What say you friend?Obviously you did not read what I wrote thoroughly. I quote from my original post.
We can fight evil by healing evil, we can attack evil by reasoning and understanding and feeling for each others, and we can surround evil by listening to its message and taking action against it source. It is not an easy fight; it is a fight that knows no hatred, no fear, and no doubt as to the end result. It is a fight that requires knowledge, understanding, intelligence, love, determination, hope and most of all our empathy.As you can see I never mentioned revenge as you are suggesting. I believe in confrontations though. But not the one you are thinking of. I quote again from the same thread
The answers are all around us, yelling at us and most of the time we let them pass by. We choose what is good for us, we accept it and accept its message, but when the evil happens we resist or become passive, thinking that leading a peaceful life could not hurt anyone. Yet, we are missing the one reason why the evil deed happened to us. Things happen for a reason, and when they happen, they carry a message that need to be received and understood, Should the message be ignored with the excuse that we are leading a peaceful life, you miss the message, the true opportunity that came to us to awaken us to a certain truth. Yet, the battle I referred to is a peaceful battle. It is a battle about understanding why things happen the way they happen instead of ignoring them because we happen to label them evil. It is like facing your fears, understand it and overcome it. This is the battle that could lead to harmony.Now, the point is I have been working on this concept for a considerable time now. I know I can not convince you by this reply because there is a lot more to say in that regard. There are definitions we have to agree on, lots of them and only when we agree, we could put thing together which, I promise you could lead to you a new understanding.
That is what I think
God bless
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I do agree, at least partially. The mind can be trained to express aspects of our true nature. But it cannot comprehensively express our nature, just as one cannot put into words the definition of "love", or "God". Our nature is eternal, infinite, while the mind is temporary. As they say, the orange cannot explain the orange tree.
It's been a pleasure chatting.
Peace,
TayHow could you be sure that an orange could not explain the orange tree? I believe an orange could explain the whole universe. The mind is what you understand now, tomorrow, the mind would be what you understand tomorrow. It is developing and, like the rest of the universe, it has no limit. Why do you think there should be a limit to anything, let alone something as unique as our mind? Even theoretical scientist do believe that the whole universe is as connected as a speck of dust. No matter how vast is expanding is magically connected and in each particle of it you could find the wholeness.
I am glad that we now agree most of the time, however, I would like to know from you why do you think the devil does not exist. How did you come to this conclusion. I believe I have told you why I think it does not exist.
It is great pleasure chatting with you sir.
God bless
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Peace O,
You stated,
How could you be sure that an orange could not explain the orange tree? I believe an orange could explain the whole universe.
Then please have this orange explain it to me wink
The mind is what you understand now, tomorrow, the mind would be what you understand tomorrow. It is developing and, like the rest of the universe, it has no limit.
As you stated in your reply to Danish, we need to come to an agreement on definitions of words before we delve into their deeper meanings. To me, mind and brain are the same thing, while soul and spirit are the same thing. The mind/brain is finite, while the soul/spirit is infinite. Therein lies our dual-nature.
I would like to know from you why do you think the devil does not exist. How did you come to this conclusion.
My understanding of God as omnipresent and omniscient leaves no room for another omniscient being that exists strictly as a counterbalance. In simpler terms, there can only be one "One". The traditional understanding of shaytan occupying all of our minds at all times simply doesn't fit. Furthermore, a being created for the sole purpose of driving evil would mean that God created an evil being, which would mean that God, by nature, is atleast partly evil. This, again, doesn't fit.
I see shaytan as the natural consequence of free will. There is no darkness, there is only a temporary obstruction of light. In eastern terms, this is called consciousness versus unconsciousness. It is not Good and Evil. You're either following the path of God, or you're not.
peace,
Tay -
SaLaM Tay
Bro i have read the discussions on this topic here. I think, it comes down to the point of view. For example, and correct me if im wrong, you think that its a mental state? or force of nature? Where as when i read the Quran, i see it as an entity. An entity which defied God
When we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam," they fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused, was too arrogant, and a disbeliever.
I just cannot see how it can be anything BUT an entity.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Which is why you cannot accept alternative views. My sentiments are with Tay when he says
If you have trouble understanding, perhaps you should ask for articulation, rather than call those who's opinions are different than yours "mind-boggling shock "
Joe
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Peace O,
You stated,
How could you be sure that an orange could not explain the orange tree? I believe an orange could explain the whole universe.
Then please have this orange explain it to me wink
That is easy bro, but first you need to learn the Orangeese. It is the only language an orange is willing to use.
The mind is what you understand now, tomorrow, the mind would be what you understand tomorrow. It is developing and, like the rest of the universe, it has no limit.
As you stated in your reply to Danish, we need to come to an agreement on definitions of words before we delve into their deeper meanings. To me, mind and brain are the same thing, while soul and spirit are the same thing. The mind/brain is finite, while the soul/spirit is infinite. Therein lies our dual-nature.
That is fine, but then again why do you think the mind/brain is not capable of coping with the knowledge the spirit has? And do not get confused between the mind and the ego. The mind has created the ego as shield, yet if your understanding grows to a stage of no selfishness, the ego could slowly vanish. We agreed that the mind is a tool, however, we did not talk about its creativity as tool. I wrote an article some time ago about the mind and the though waves that some sciences believe that thoughts generate waves that affect your surroundings, your daily life. This the ultimate connection between us and the rest of the universe. Our thoughts, which present who we are, what we know, understand, desire and hope for, are creating our existence.There is also another theory that involves the mind which suggests that all what of existence would not exist if there is no observer to confirm its existence.
I have also written about the power of expectations, the general agreed expectations which makes us agree on colours and shapes and the personal expectations which we do not agree on like how an even occurred, or when you do not like the person I like. Expectations could also be sliced in involve other dimensions where the general agreed expectations are different from ours.
All these and more involve the power of the mind. You never know what the collective power of our minds could do. To me what you are talking about is the ignorance of the mind. When the person is ignorant, his mind is also ignorant, but that does not mean that the mind does not have the potential.
I would like to know from you why do you think the devil does not exist. How did you come to this conclusion.
My understanding of God as omnipresent and omniscient leaves no room for another omniscient being that exists strictly as a counterbalance. In simpler terms, there can only be one "One". The traditional understanding of shaytan occupying all of our minds at all times simply doesn't fit. Furthermore, a being created for the sole purpose of driving evil would mean that God created an evil being, which would mean that God, by nature, is atleast partly evil. This, again, doesn't fit.
I see shaytan as the natural consequence of free will. There is no darkness, there is only a temporary obstruction of light. In eastern terms, this is called consciousness versus unconsciousness. It is not Good and Evil. You're either following the path of God, or you're not.
peace,
Tay
Very interesting valid points. I came to my conclusion by following the same pattern we are discussing here. Knowing and not knowing. Knowledge and lack of knowledge, love and fear. Lack of knowledge created fear, fear created ego, ego created selfishness, selfishness resulted in selfish choices, selfish choices are what other people call evil. This process is ours, our life, our duality. God could not be going the same process since God has all knowledge to start with. Unfortunately Religion made the big mistake (or was forced to be that way) by following the same human pattern while claiming to be the message of God. Religion talked about heaven and hell, about a merciful yet vengeful God. It included God in our duality. Religion has created a dual-natured God that could not exist for the simple fact that duality was only created because of the lack of knowledge while God is the all knowing. The Devil was created to represent the duality was God. In reality, it is now obvious why religion had to go though all this trouble unknowingly, it is because it was created by man who could not imagine a God who is different from us, without duality.As to the freewill, it is just another mistake by religion. In reality the freewill is not a prime gift, the prime was again the lack of knowledge which created the duality and because there is duality, there is a choice. They say God gave us the freewill because it is the obvious thing to say while in reality the freewill is just a made up word because it is a by product of our state of life. Animals, plants and mountains do not experience the freewill, not because they were not given the freewill, it is because the can not process information the way we do. Their mind can not create the ego or the individuality. They can not use knowledge to create aeroplanes or weapons as we do. What we were given is something greater than the freewill, it is the power to understand the universe and create anew.
Take care,
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When we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam," they fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused, was too arrogant, and a disbeliever.I just cannot see how it can be anything BUT an entity.
Peace Jaxal, did you read this story in the Quran thoroughly? I tell you what I will post it for you here and let me know what you think of it.
Coming soon
Bless
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Here you go Jaxal,
All the verses that concerns satan and the creation of man. Read them good and let's discuss the at your own time.
(30)?And when thy Lord said unto the angels Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said Surely I know that which ye know not.?(31)?And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.?
(32)?They said Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise.?
(33)?He said O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names, He said Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth? And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide.?
(34)?And when We said unto the angels Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.?(35)?And We said O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.?
(36)?But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.?
(37)?Then Adam received from his Lord words, and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.?
(38.)?We said Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.?
(39) ?But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.?
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(39)?Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam" They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!?
(50)
?O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.?
(27)
(26)?We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;?
(27)?And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.?
(28.)?Behold! thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;?
(29)"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
(30)?So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together?
(31)?Not so Iblis he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves.?
(32)?(Allah) said "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"
(33)?(Iblis) said "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."
(34)?(Allah) said "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed.
(35)"And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment."
(36)?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
(37)?(Allah) said "Respite is granted thee?
(38.)"Till the Day of the Time appointed."
(39)?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-?
(40)"Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
(41)?(Allah) said "This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed a way that leads straight to Me.?
(42)"For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee."
(43)?And verily, Hell is the promised abode for them all!?
(44)?To it are seven gates for each of those gates is a (special) class (of sinners) assigned.?(26)
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(44)(71) ?Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create man from clay?
(72) "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
(73) ?So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together ?
(74) ?Not so Iblis he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith.?
(75)?(Allah) said "O Iblis! What prevents thee from prostrating thyself to one whom I have created with my hands? Art thou haughty? Or art thou one of the high (and mighty) ones?"
(76) ?(Iblis) said "I am better than he thou createdst me from fire, and him thou createdst from clay."
(77)(Allah) said "Then get thee out from here for thou art rejected, accursed.
(78.) "And My curse shall be on thee till the Day of Judgment."
(79) ?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
(80) ?(Allah) said "Respite then is granted thee-?
(81) "Till the Day of the Time Appointed."
(82) ?(Iblis) said "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong,- ?
(83)"Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
(84) ?(Allah) said "Then it is just and fitting- and I say what is just and fitting-?
(85) "That I will certainly fill Hell with thee and those that follow thee,- every one."(71)
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(85)(61) ?Behold! We said to the angels "Bow down unto Adam" They bowed down except Iblis He said, "Shall I bow down to one whom Thou didst create from clay?"
(62) ?He said "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!"
(63) ?(Allah) said "Go thy way; if any of them follow thee, verily Hell will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense.?
(64)"Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises them nothing but deceit.?
(65)"As for My servants, no authority shalt thou have over them" Enough is thy Lord for a Disposer of affairs.?(61)
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SaLaM Joe and openurmind
Which is why you cannot accept alternative views. My sentiments are with Tay
Joe why do expect anyone to accept anything other than what it is? You are assuming i refuse to accept an alternative view. Thats an assumption you should keep to yourself.
Openurmind, first of all, thanks for going through all that trouble to post these verses of God for me. But i am a bit confused. Did u misunderstand me? I am saying that there IS an entity called Iblees. These verses confirm that. Or maybe it is me who has completely missed what you were trying to point out. Evil and Iblees are two different things. Agree? One is a characterer and the other is an entity. I agree that a 'character', i.e evil, does not exist in a physical form. Its more of a mental condition. But Iblees, as the verses above show, does exist in a 'physical' form. I hope you understand.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Joe why do expect anyone to accept anything other than what it is?
What it is to you is not what it is to me. Obviously what it is to you is also not what it is to others. I do not get your logic here.
You are assuming i refuse to accept an alternative view. Thats an assumption you should keep to yourself.
What I mean is that you do not even mind them. You're like, 'No, that's wrong' or 'Oh no, it's not like that' or 'No I do not think so it's not what it is'. I may not accept alternative views, but I do not go around saying, 'No you're wrong' all the time. Loosen up dude.
Joe
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SaLaM Joe
'No, that's wrong' or 'Oh no, it's not like that' or 'No I do not think so it's not what it is'
rotfl I really sound like that??? rotfl . I have to say this, i DONT ever mean to make it sound like that. Infact, im proud that we all have our own beliefs and our own releationship with God. Really i am. Like Tay for example, Im completely ok with his belief. Its just that, i like to say it the way it is. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant.
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Peace O,
first you need to learn the Orangeese. It is the only language an orange is willing to use.
Damnit! I wasted my money learning fruitian thinking they all spoke the same language oops
That is fine, but then again why do you think the mind/brain is not capable of coping with the knowledge the spirit has? And do not get confused between the mind and the ego...
OK, O, time out, hit the brakes, too much information. We need to slow down man! You're using a lot of jargon that slips between psychology, western philosophy, and eastern philosophy.
Please, let's just take this chat one step at a time because a lot of the stuff you've mentioned I agree with but we need to put these concepts in their proper order for the sake of maintaining one conversation.
Now here's my first question for you in the hope of understanding what you mean by the word "mind". Do you view the mind as the same thing as the brain? Please explain in detail and we'll take it from there.
Thanks,
Tay -
What you mean by the word "mind". Do you view the mind as the same thing as the brain? Please explain in detail and we'll take it from there.
Thanks,
Taywell, I am not sure what the conventional terms, but I will tell you what I think. The brain is the substance, the physical matter that process and stores, it is the regulator that helps all organs to function as it is the primary part of the nervous system. The mind is the whole thing including the thinking, the process of sorting and analysing, and perception. If you are inspired for example, I believe it is the mind that receives the ideas, and the brain is the hardware the mind uses to process the new idea. Some people use the word brain to mean the mind or the other way around, however, when it comes to the consciousness, we should not refer to the brain, unless you decide that both are just one thing. The ego is the character that is formed from your personal experience. It is neither the mind nor the brain.
God belss