AL-QURAN IS...ALTERED/CORRUPTED...?!?
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PRIEST_BOKMEI,
i wouldnt think Quran is corrupted.
But yeah, there has been confusions over
*its translation (many muslims do not know arabic and rely on them)
*its interpretations (again, opinions/ interpretations differ) -
PEACE, PEACEFUL MUSLIM,
PRIEST_BOKMEI,
i wouldnt think Quran is corrupted.
But yeah, there has been confusions over
*its translation (many muslims do not know arabic and rely on them)
*its interpretations (again, opinions/ interpretations differ)I agee. Ayats 482 and 181, totally precludes any such notion that Al-Quran is corrupted
482 Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.
1037 This Qur'an is not such as can be forged by other than Allah. on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
181 Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and has allowed therein no Crookedness.
3928 (It is) a Qur'an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein) in order that they may guard against Evil.
5677-78 Most surely it is an honored Quran. In a book that is protected.
It is the height of foolishness, shirk, idiocy, to believe that Al-Quran is in anyway, corrupted.
Peace.
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It is the height of foolishness, shirk, idiocy, to believe that Al-Quran is in anyway, corrupted.
It is indeed very foolish, stupid and idiotic of you to believe that Quran is not altered when evidence is in front of you. RK and the original thread for example. lol
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Peace dear brother Jaxal.
I am currently on neither side of the swine debate, I'm still trying to work things out for myself,but I am very confused asto how exactly you find the reading to be corrupted. I would be very grateful if you would elaborate on what you mean by "RK and theoriginal thread"
You a nice guy, I don't have any personal problems with you at all, but I just don't understand how you believe the reading to becorrupted, and ifindeed itis, on what basis do you believe in the message of submission brought to us in al-quran. Please do not beoffended at me asking this question, I'm just a little confused.
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SaLaM Natu
Bro i dont find the Quran 'corrupted'. I find it ALTERED. Meaning, a letter added here. A word added there. Sorry if i ever made it sound like the Quran is corrupted. Infact, i dont even believe that Quran is the whole book. The reason is that i cannot find even one verse saying that it is a complete book. The complete 'scripture' is with God. So it doesnt really matters what happens to this Quran here on earth. So this is a big part of the reason i have no toruble saying that the scriptures here on earth are altered.
Secondly, people are under this misconception that altering the Quran is impossible. RK did it. What was stopping him? Rk took out 2 verses from the Quran. 19127 and 19128 or was 9127 and 9128? Regardless of that, he DID take two verses out. What stopped him? In the original thread, you will see a link to an article which shows clear differences between the old and the new Quran. So its not like i made this up one day coz i was just too bored with my life. There is evidence out there. But when someone is busy stuffing his mouth with pork, its hard to see anything, right PB? rotfl
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PEACE, NATU,
I am currently on neither side of the swine debate, I'm still trying to work things out for myself,
If you have any doubts that the pig is halal, then please read page one on the thread CONCLUSION OF THE SWINE DEBATE.
In regard to Jaxal, I would advise you not to waste your efforts...he has no respect for...reason, especially, Quranic reason. For example, Allah, has made it quite clear that there are no contradictions/discrepancies in Al-Quran. Jaxal, of course, rejects this. He knows better than Allah. Further, Allah, has told mankind that His Quran is protected, however, again, Jaxal rejects this. He uses the RK argument that Al-Quran can be changed, however, the original Quran contains the ayats which RK deleted, proving that, Allah, has in fact, protected His Quran from being altered.
Jaxal, claims that Al-Quran is not complete "Infact, i dont even believe that Quran is the whole book. The reason is that i cannot find even one verse saying that it is a complete book. The complete 'scripture' is with God. So it doesnt really matters what happens to this Quran here on earth. So this is a big part of the reason i have no toruble saying that the scriptures here on earth are altered".
This individual, as you can see, is not only ignorant of Al-Quran, but lacks reason as well. Allah, per ayat 2185, states that Al-Quran was sent as a guidance to mankind. With this in mind then, why would Allah send an incomplete book and claim that it can guide us?? This is tantamount to someone giving you an incomplete map to somewhere! Allah, refers to His Quran as fassala/fully detailed. LOL!! How can something be fully detailed and, at the same time,...incomplete?? Consider the following ayats
752 For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.
111 A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with ayats basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things)
413 A Book, whereof the ayats are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand
Looking forward to your reply.
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Jaxal, of course, rejects this. He knows better than Allah.
Hold it there barbie. Comming from the horse's mouth. Allah made pork haram in all this scripture and yet you think you know better. Dont be a hypocrite. Dont you know what God does to the hypocrite?
Give news to the hypocrites that they will have a painful retribution.
D
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Peace dear brother PB.
Its been a while sinceI'vebeen able to get online, and its good to see a fresh debate going on, but trying tocatch up with everything is pratically impossible, becuase the orignal threasd has gone to a ridiculous number if pages, and much of it, I realised, is full of mud slinging - so I find it very hard to catchup, as I am sure many others do.
Thank you for providing the link, God willing, once I've caught up, I'll try to contribute if I can.
With regards to the situation between yourself and Jaxal, God is the best judge, I just don't know what t say. Just try to keep the debate concise, (unless of course somone is prepared to write some kind of article or summary for those who weren't there for this debate.
And for the record, I myself have always had problems trying to understand why swine meat is prhibited (or not as the case may be), the reason I was always told tended to be insignificant andsimilar argumentscould be applied to all kinds of foods. So as it stands I only don't eat pork becuase asyet it appears to be prohibited,but I haven't really researched it for m,yself. If I find that it iasn't prohibted (may may be quite likely), then I don't think we should any prejudices against the animal.
As a last note, my bros, please try to keep concise in this debate, it will help a great deal.
Thanks.
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PEACE, NATU,
Thank you for providing the link, God willing, once I've caught up, I'll try to contribute if I can.
No rush.
Just try to keep the debate concise, (unless of course somone is prepared to write some kind of article or summary for those who weren't there for this debate.
What would you like to see in the summary? List the points you want addressed. Also, what would will it tkake to convince you that the pig is lawful as food?
So as it stands I only don't eat pork becuase asyet it appears to be prohibited,but I haven't really researched it for m,yself. If I find that it iasn't prohibted (may may be quite likely), then I don't think we should any prejudices against the animal.
Remember, ayats 733 and 1736, forbids you to do something based on how that thing appears. You must eat pork if you wish and only abstain once you've proven it to be haram and not the other way around. If you abstain based on incomplete information, that is conjecture, then you are following the dicates of others and not Allah and this is what shirk and superstition are about. Do you see? Read ayats 733 and 1736 again. These two ayats protect from shirk and superstition.
As far as Jaxal is concerned, ignore him, he is a mocker and is impervious to reason.
Looking forward to your reply.
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Peace PB.
Ijust need a little time togo over the whole thing, and if I have any oncerns left, I'll post them here then we could discuss them. The onlyreason I said it appears to be prohibited is becuase thats what I've thought previously - perhaps I didn't word it right .
I see the logic in your approach PB, Ijust want t go through and see if I have any problems of my own left.
Thanks for the help PB and Jaxal.
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PEACE, NATU,
Ijust need a little time togo over the whole thing, and if I have any oncerns left, I'll post them here then we could discuss them. The onlyreason I said it appears to be prohibited is becuase thats what I've thought previously - perhaps I didn't word it right .
I see the logic in your approach PB, Ijust want t go through and see if I have any problems of my own left.
Thanks for the help PB.
Good deal, take your time ) . Still, I hope you will let me know what points you would like to see in the summary, as well as, what it would take to convince you that the pig is halal. I ask this because it may help me better explain this subject to others.
Looking forward to your reply at some time.