Vow!
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SaLaM peacefulmuslim
Brother consider this. God is asking you to make pilgrimage to the Restricted Temple / Shrine . God doesnt tells you what to do once ou get there. So maybe, its not important if we jump up and down or go round and round. As i have said before, inshallah one day when i ever get a chance to go there, i will sit at the side and devote myself to God completely.
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hi Jaxal
agreed the rituals are man made. propably the prophet practised?????????have no idea on that.and anyways, they are merely symbolic.
but i highly doubt if u can go there and sit near kaaba, without people stamping u. many die out there,becoz of the stampedes every year!and yeah, a tiny correction.i am a female.so, would be a sister if u insist on the brotherhood .
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Salaams peaceful,Jax,
If you both agree/believe in this practice - can you show where are the details of this practice in the quran - that you need to run and walk in circimblating the kabba and that is seven times .If the quran is fully detailed as Allah says where do we find such details please or for that matter for everything done in the haj practice.
check these out if you havn't,
http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm.
http//www.free-minds.org/Arab_Conspiracy.html
God Bless.
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hi mz357,
who came first?
king vikramaditya or abraham?
or for that matter,prophet Mohammed or king vikramaditya?and anyways, its a well known fact that even during the time of the prophet, the region had many idol worshippers.
But then again, whats that guy saying?It might come as a stunning revelation to many that the word ?ALLAH? itself is Sanskrit. In Sanskrit language Allah, Akka and Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The term ?ALLAH? forms part of Sanskrit chants invoking goddess Durga, also known as Bhavani, Chandi and Mahishasurmardini. The Islamic word for God is., therefore, not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and continued by Islam. Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess.
The Islamic term ?Eed-ul-Fitr? derives from the ?Eed of Piters? that is worship of forefathers in Sanskrit tradition. In India, Hindus commemorate their ancestors during the Pitr-Paksha that is the fortnight reserved for their remembrance. The very same is the significance of ?Eed-ul-Fitr? (worship of forefathers).
All Arabic copies of the Koran have the mysterious figure 786 imprinted on them . No Arabic scholar has been able to determine the choice of this particular number as divine. It is an established fact that Muhammad was illiterate therefore it is obvious that he would not be able to differentiate numbers from letters. This "magical" number is none other than the Vedic holy letter "OM" written in Sanskrit (Refer to figure 2). Anyone who knows Sanskrit can try reading the symbol for "OM" backwards in the Arabic way and magically the numbers 786 will appear! Muslims in their ignorance simply do not realise that this special number is nothing more than the holiest of Vedic symbols misread.This is one of the most ridiculous text i have ever read.
he is talking of the meaning of arabic words in sanskrit? who cares what it means in sanskrit? coz its in arabic and not sanskrit. how can one mix languages and claim sense?
had a good laugh though. -
SaLaM mz357
Im not saying that i agree to those rituals. Infact, i am against those coz i dont see any quranic evidence to support them. I agree that a pilgrimage should be made. It is in the Quran. But i think what a person does once he goes there is up to him becoz each person has a personal releationship withGod. As i have said many times, inshallah if i ever get the chance to go there, i will just sit in the corner, and decvote myself to God.
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hi mz357,
obviously, the rituals that are performed during haj isnt mentioned in Quran.
i guess they take their roots from history and are symbolic.
this is fromhttp//naeemjeenah.shams.za.org/haj-mayfair%20times.htm
The Haj is the only of the important rituals in Islam which is based largely on the commemoration of the actions of other human beings. And in Haj, many of the rites are based on the actions of a woman. The life of Hajar, the wife of the Prophet Abraham, plays a central role in the Haj. The sa?i, a most gruelling part of the Haj and a rite in which the haji makes a continuous movement for over 5 km, is most strikingly based on Hajar?s actions. Hajar and her baby Isma?il was left in the desert by her husband after a command to that effect by God. When her food and water ran out, she ran repeatedly between two hills ? Safa and Marwah ? searching for someone that could assist. Hajis commemorate this desperate search that took place thousands of years ago by running between the same two hills seven times the sa?i. And part of the Haj includes drinking from the well of Zam zam, a practice which also points to the story of Hajar and Isma?il. Hajar could not find anyone to help her and when she returned to her son who she had left lying on the ground, she saw a spring that had begun gushing forth near where he lay ? the spring of Zam zam.
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Salaams peace,
this is by a Br. whome i respect very much-
A CHALLENGE TO ALL MUSLIMS WHO BELIEVE IN THE STORY OF ABRAHAM AND ISMAIL AND THE ZAMZAM
Almost all Muslims believe in the above story and based on this story they proceed to perform Hajj in Mecca. But if I declare and claim that the above story is false and fabricated then believe me that those who believe in the story will spare no opportunity to slaughter me. I know that no one will believe me except those who believe in the Quran, and making the hadithers to believe is like cracking a hard nut.
IT IS ALLAH ONLY WHO IS REVEALING THE STORIES OF THE PAST NATIONS AND PROPHETS
This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge), which We inspire you with (O Muhammad SAW). You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed. 344
The word came "O Noah! come down (from the Ark) with Peace from Us and Blessings on thee and on some of the Peoples (who will spring) from those with thee but (there will be other) Peoples to whom We shall grant their pleasures (for a time) but in the end will a grievous Penalty reach them from Us." This is of the news of the unseen which We reveal unto you (O Muhammad SAW), neither you nor your people knew them before this. So be patient. Surely, the (good) end is for the Muttaqun (pious - see V.22) 1148/49
Such is one of the stories of what happened unseen which We reveal by inspiration unto thee nor wast thou (present) with them when they concerted their plans together in the process of weaving their plots. 12102
PROPHET DECLARING, " HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNSEEN"
Say (O Muhammad SAW) "I don't tell you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the unseen; nor I tell you that I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me by inspiration." Say "Are the blind and the one who sees equal? will you not then take thought?" 650
Say (O Muhammad SAW) "I possess no power of benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I had the knowledge of the Ghaib (unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings unto people who believe." 7188
And I say not unto you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor that I know the Unseen; nor I say, I am an angel. And say not of those whom your eyes condemn that Allah shall not bestow on them good --Allah knoweth best that which is in their souls. Verily in that case would be of the wrong-doers. 1131
PEOPLE WERE WRITING ON UNSEEN
Or that the Ghaib (unseen) is with them, and they write it down? 5241
Is with him the knowledge of the unseen so that he sees? 5335
Or that they Unseen is in their hands so that they can write it down? 6847
ALLAH CONFIRMING THAT PROPHET WITHHOLDS NO KNOWLEDGE OF UNSEEN
And he (Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) withholds not a knowledge of the unseen. 8124
IN THE LIGHT OF THE ABOVE VERSES IT IS CLEAR THAT
IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS REVEALED THE NEWS / STORIES OF THE PAST PROPHETS AND NATIONS AND THEIR DESTRUCTIONS.
IT IS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN.
IT IS PROVED THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT KNOW THE STORY OF ANY PAST PROPHETS AND THEIR PEOPLE AND THEIR DESTRUCTIONS.
IT IS PROVED THAT PEOPLE WROTE ABOUT UNSEEN, WHEN THE PROPHET WAS ALIVE.
ALLAH HAS CONFIRMED THAT THE PROPHET DOES NOT HOLD ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNSEEN.
IF WE BELIEVE IN THE ABOVE VERSES AND HAVE FAITH IN IT THEN IT IS SHIRK TO BELIEVE IN THE STORY OF ABRAHAM AND ISMAIL AND ZAMZAM WHICH APPEARS IN HADITH.
THE STORY IS NOT REVEALED BY ALLAH IN THE QURAN
THE (UNSEEN) STORY IS NOT KNOWN BY THE PROPHET
THEN WHO FABRICATED THIS STORY?
IT IS PROVED THAT THE STORY IS FALSE AND WHEN IT IS FALSE THEN WHERE DO WE GO FOR PILGRIMAGE?
THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE ABOVE STORY ARE CHALLENGED TO PROVE FROM THE QURAN THAT IT IS A TRUE STORY.<SPAN
You may understand it All.
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hi mz357,
i have read ur post in detail and have checked all the quotes u have made from the Quran and have read what was said and in which context as well.
First of all,
*Quran is a book from God with a message conveyed through Prophet Mohammed directly to the people of that time, and indirectly(the message) to all of us.
*yes, Allah talks of history in Quran , about the earlier prophets and how they had been guided righltly and directly by Himself. He had conveyed similar messages in His earlier guidance to mankind. to inspire humanity to follow the truth. to awaken them to break false beliefs.now, regarding ur post, i'd say the quotes are sort of misquoted as it was very necessary to understand why what was said.
- and the 'unseen' mentioned in the Quran is the future and not the past.
Heres how the same quotes convey their intended meaning
652 Say "I do not say to you that I posses God's treasures, nor do I know the future, nor do I say to you that I am an Angel. I merely follow what is inspired to me." Say "Are the blind and the seer the same? Do you not think?"
653 And warn with it those who realize that they will be gathered to their Lord; they do not have besides Him any protector nor intercessor; so that they may be righteous.7188 They ask you regarding the Hour "When will be its time?" Say "Its knowledge is with my Lord, none can reveal its coming except Him. It is heavy through the heavens and the Earth; it will not come to you except suddenly." They ask you, as if you are responsible for it! Say "Its knowledge is with God, but most people do not know."
7189 Say "I do not posses for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe."
7190 He is the One who created you from one person, and He made from it its mate to reside with. When he dwelled with her, she became pregnant with a light load, and she continued with it; then when it became heavy, they called on God, their Lord "If You give us an upright child, then we will be among the thankful."1129 He said "My people, do you not see that I have clarity from my Lord and He gave me mercy from Himself, but it has been blinded to you? Shall we compel you to it while you have a hatred to it?"
1130 "And my people, I do not ask you for money, my reward is with God. Nor will I turn away those who believe, for they will meet their Lord. But I see that you are a people who are ignorant."
1131 "And my people, who will give me victory against God if I turn them away? Will you not remember!"
1132 "Nor do I say to you that I have the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an Angel, nor do I say to those whom your eyes look down upon that God will not grant them any good. God is more aware of what is in their souls; in such case I would be among the wicked."5235 Or did they create the heavens and the Earth? No, they do not comprehend.
5236 Or do they possess the treasures of your Lord? Are they in control?
5237 Or do they have a stairway that enables them to listen? Then let their listeners show their proof.
5238 Or to Him belong the daughters, and to you belong the sons?
5239 Or do you ask them for a wage, thus they are burdened by the fine?
5240 Or do they know the future, thus they have it recorded?
5241 Or do they intend to scheme? Indeed, it is the rejecters who are schemed against.
5242 Or do they have another god besides God? God be glorified above what they set up.
5243 And if they see a spectacle from the sky, they will Say "Piled clouds!"
5244 So disregard them until they meet the Day in which they are struck.
5245 The Day when their schemes will not protect them, nor will they be helped.So, at no point did the prophet say , i have no clue what happened before my time. And remember there were previous Holy scriptures as well that were sent to guide mankind.
by making this point, am not trying to authenticate all of Hadith.
All i am trying to say is, there is something called history.
And the whole point Allah is trying to make in the Quran is 'use up ur sense and dont follow stuff blindly but do and believe what u see sense in'.
and how can common sense disregard history?am not talking of the rituals of haj though, coz i am not very sure of their origin yet. i think it was meant as a symbolic representation to our roots(history).
- and the 'unseen' mentioned in the Quran is the future and not the past.
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Salaams Peace,
you said"* and the 'unseen' mentioned in the Quran is the future and not the past. "
How did you reach this concwhen the ayats before 344 and after are explaining the history or rather the story of Mary?
Which isn't likely to happen in the future!
God Bless.
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hi mz357,
yeah, the verses 344 do refer to the past.
while the ones i had quoted earlier refer to the future.but then like i said, there were previous scriptures before Quran. so, it wouldnt be fair to say the prophet or his people had no idea what had happened. obviously, God knows all the intricacies, much better than any human at any time.
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Salaams peace,Jax,All,
here is something a respected brother wrote a little while ago!enjoy.
THE STORY OF ABRAHAM, ISMAIL, HAGAR AND ZAMZAM
The story, "that Abraham had two wives Sarah and Hajrah and Abraham received orders from Allah to leave Sarah and suckling Ismail in Mecca. Hajrah running for water on the hills of (Safa and Marwah) seven times, water springs up from a well, afterwards called Zamzam, by orders of Allah. Abraham on twice occasions did not meet Ismail although he travelled from Palestine to Mecca to meet his son Ismail and during this visit Ismail divorces his wife on the orders of Abraham, only because his wife complained to Abraham about the poverty. On other visits Abraham constructs the House of Allah and fulfils the vision of sacrificing his son Ismail," appears in the Hadith and not in the Quran. This story has become the base of Hajj and ritual not found in the Quran. Should we believe this story?
We find in the Quran that all the stories of the PREVIOUS prophets were unknown to Prophet Muhammad and his people and it is Allah only Who is revealing these unseen through Quran.
Thus We relate to you (O Muhammad SAW) some information of what happened before. And indeed We have given you from Us a Reminder (this Qur'an) .2099
And all that We relate to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the news of the Messengers is in order that We may make strong and firm your heart thereby. And in this (chapter of the Qur'an) has come to you the truth, as well as an admonition and a reminder for the believers. 11120
We relate unto you (Muhammad SAW) the best of stories through Our Revelations unto you, by this Qur'an. And before this you were among those who knew nothing about it 123
It was said "O Nuh (Noah)! Come down (from the ship) with peace from Us and blessings on you and on the people who are with you (and on some of their off spring), but (there will be other) people to whom We shall grant their pleasures (for a time), but in the end a painful torment will reach them from Us." This is of the news of the unseen, which We reveal unto you (O Muhammad SAW), neither you nor your people knew them before this. So be patient. Surely, the (good) end is for the Muttaqun 1148/49
The stories of all the prophets except Abraham are narrated in this chapter for the information and knowledge of prophet Muhammad that which he knew not before. The source of information of these stories to the prophet is Allah and his Quran. Any Muslim who believes in the Quran will never believe in any story of the prophet, which is hearsay and not mentioned in the Quran. Only those Muslims would believe in such stories, who believe not in the Quran by heart
The prophet and his people did not know any of the stories of the past prophets and it is Allah Who is giving the news of the unseen. Therefore the story of Abraham, Ismail, Hagar, and Zamzam, which is not mentioned in the Quran and not known by the prophet, is a clear fabrication to misguide the Muslims and to make them believe that Abraham settled his son Ismail in Mecca.
According to the narrations in the Hadith, Abraham never settled in Mecca but came only sometimes (three times, and on two occasions he went back without meeting his son Ismail) to meet his son Ismail, WHO settled in Mecca since the age of suckling. And the Quran says that Abraham never separated from his son Ismail till he reached /attained with him, the age of doing work.
FA- LAMMAA BALAGHA MAcA -HU AS- SAcY QAALA YAA BUNAY -YA 'INNI -Y ARAA FE AL- MANAAM 'ANNI -Y ADHBAH. -KA FA- UNZ.UR MAA-DHAA TARAA QAALA YAA 'AB -TI IFcAL MAA TU'MAR SA- TAJID -NE 'IN SHAA'A 'ALLAAH MIN AS.- S.AABIREN 37102
They said "Build for him a building (it is said that the building was like a furnace) and throw him into the blazing fire!" So they plotted a plot against him, but We made them the lowest. And he said (after his rescue from the fire) "Verily, I am going to my Lord. He will guide me!" "My Lord! Grant me (offspring) from the righteous." So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy. Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! do as thou art commanded thou will find me if Allah so wills one practicing Patience and Constancy!" 3797/98/99/100/101/102
Then when (Ismail) (BALAGHA) REACHED (MAcA -HU) WITH HIM, the age of work
There is no separation mentioned after the glad tidings of Ismail was given to Abraham till Ismail reached with Abraham the age of doing work.
It is proved that Abraham never settled in Mecca and Ismail never separated from his father till he reached the age of work and this further proves that the story of Zamzam is an absolute fake and fabricated.
THE OFFSPRING OF ABRAHAM
RABB -NAA 'INNI -Y ASKANTU MIN DHURREYAH -E BI- WAADI GHAYR DHE ZARc cINDA BAYT -KA AL- MUH.ARRAM RABB -NAA LI- YUQEMO AS.- S.ALAAH FA- IJcAL AF'IDAH MIN AN- NAAS TAHWE 'ILAY -HIM WA- URZUQ -HUM MIN ATH- THAMARAAT LAcALLA -HUM YASHKURON 1437
"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka'bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), so fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits so that they may give thanks. 1437
Does MIN DHURREYAH mean some of my offspring?
???? = progeny offspring descendants posterity children
And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands which he fulfilled; He said "I will make thee an Imam to the nations." He pleaded "And also (Imams) (MIN DHURREYAH) from my offspring!" He answered "But my promise is not within the reach of evil-doers." 2124
"Our Lord! And make us submissive unto You and (MIN DHURREYAH) from our offspring a nation submissive unto You, and show us our Manasik and accept our repentance. Truly, You are the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful. 2128
We gave him Isaac and Jacob all (three) We guided and before him We guided Noah and before him We guided Noah and (MIN DHURREYAH) from his offspring David Solomon Job Joseph Moses and Aaron thus do We reward those who do good 684
And your Lord is Rich (Free of all wants), full of Mercy, if He will, He can destroy you, and in your place make whom He will as your successors, as He raised you (MIN DHURREYAH) from the offspring of other people. 6133
"O my Lord! Make me one who performs As-Salat and (also) (MIN DHURREYAH) from my offspring, our Lord! And accept my invocation. 1440
Those were they unto whom Allah bestowed His Grace from among the Prophets, (MIN DHURREYAH) from the offspring of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Noah, and (MIN DHURREYAH) from the offspring of Abraham and Israel and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the Verses of the Most Beneficent (Allah) were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping. 1958
We blessed him and Isaac, and (MIN DHURREYAH) from their offspring are (some) that do right, and some that plainly wrong themselves. 37113
MIN DHURREYAH means from my offspring and not some of my offspring. The corruptors wanted to make believe that Ismail was made settled in Mecca and Isaac in Jordan. Actually all the offspring of Abraham were settled in an uncultivated valley of Jordan near the forbidden place of God.
GHAYR DHE ZARc = uncultivated (A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic -HANS WEHR)
There is no such valley around Kaaba in Mecca, which is cultivable
MECCA (Arab. Malthah),' the chief town of the Hejaz in Arabia, and the great holy city of Islam. It is situated two camel marches (the resting-place being~ Bahra or Hadda), or about 45 m. almost due E., from Jidda on the Red Sea. Thus on a rough estimate Mecca lies in 21? 25' N., 39? 50' E. It is said in the Koran (Sur. xiv. 40) that Mecca lies in a (barren) sterile valley, and the old geographers observe that the whole Haram or sacred territory round the city is almost without cultivation or date palms, while fruit trees, springs, wells, gardens and green valleys are found immediately beyond. Mecca in fact lies in the heart of a mass of rough hills, intersected by a labyrinth of narrow valleys and passes, and projecting into the Tehama or low country on the Red Sea, in front of the great mountain wall that divides the coast-lands from the central plateau, though in turn they are themselves separated from the sea by a second curtain of hills forming the western wall of the great Wadi Marr. ' The inner mountain wall is pierced by only two great passes, and the valleys descending from these embrace on both sides the Mecca hills.
Holding this position commanding two great routes between the lowlands and inner Arabia, and situated in a
God Bless Us.