Torn... what to do about Salaat?
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Well i agree with that, that Salaat means to connect. That much is pretty obvious. My issue is in the manor/frequency differences with the "traditional" conception of it... I do tend to agree more with I have read so far about Salaat on these sites for the past few months. But it still is quite a leap of faith for one to change his ways. I guess the best is for one to keep doing what he has learned initally while sincerely seeking truth and guidance, indeed Allah will show the way for those who seek Him. W'Allahu a3lam!
Thank you brother.
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Well i agree with that, that Salaat means to connect. That much is pretty obvious. My issue is in the manor/frequency differences with the "traditional" conception of it... I do tend to agree more with I have read so far about Salaat on these sites for the past few months. But it still is quite a leap of faith for one to change his ways. I guess the best is for one to keep doing what he has learned initally while sincerely seeking truth and guidance, indeed Allah will show the way for those who seek Him. W'Allahu a3lam!
Thank you brother.
Love your name bro!
Mo-mentum. . . sounds like something this websites movement needs a little more of.
Read the Quran yourself to figure out the prayers.
Why is it neccesary to have a community wide and uniform method of prayer! In my opinion praying as a traditional Muslim may even be acceptable as long as one recognizes that God is most important.
It seems probable to me that members of the Muslim community created the uniform prayer today because people probably had so many questions were probably illiterate and could not have read the Quran themselves to figure things out.
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Thanks brother. Islam as a whole needs momentum right now to overcome many difficulties.
But, this movement has to be careful. It does a good job of silencing extremists, but we must beware not to become extremists in how we disregard all that has been achieved by muslim scholars before.
Yes, in matter of law we seem stuck in medieval times if not worse. But as for Ibadat, i think we should keep that portion since it creates a social bond. Since we say here that there is no set way of performing Salaat, then there should be no problem in keeping most aspects of the traditional Salaat. Plus it would be a great way not to alienate many Muslims.
But i'm still going through many of the articles on FM.org and I disagree with certain interpretations that have to do with examining Names, root words in the Quran. For example, a brother mentioned how Al-Masjid is an institution rather than a building, and how Al-Masjid al-Haram and al-Aqsa are not physical places. A quick browse through Surat Al-Tawbah goes a long way to show that it is physical buildings that are being referred to.
Basically what im trying to say, there is alot of potential in this movement, but we must take care not to get carried away with our post-modernistic reinterpertation of EVERYTHING.
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Peace,
I don't think you should worry too much about being "doomed".
Amidst all the debate, controversy and differing opinions it is easy to forget that God is the Most Gracious, The Most Kind. Look these words up in the dictionary.
If in your heart you are sincere, and try to please God, then the Most Gracious, the Most Kind, the Appreciative will not commit you to doom, but rather He will multiply your reward manifold! (6417)
Kind Regards,
Nathan. -
Indeed. Those are reassuring words Nazz thanks.
However, I also worry about all my Muslim brothers and sisters all over. And I worry most about Islam it iself.
"Islamaah! Islamaah!" was the cry of the Muslims during the Mongol invasions...or "Woe to Islam! Woe to Islam!" for they feared they would be completely wiped out, at least politically/economically/socially if not physically. And I fear that if we don't straighten our ways as a community then we will be doomed. And this is most dangerous because Islam is Mankind's only hope for progress into the future in a fair and balanced society.
The way things are going........who knows......wAllahou Ar7amma'l Ra7immin.
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PEACE, MO MENTUM,
It is my understanding that salaa means keeping one's word/commitment to Allah to fulfill one's duty as a Muslim, as detailed in His Book of Guidance--Al-Quran.
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PEACE, NAZZ and MO MENTUM,
I don't think you should worry too much about being "doomed".
Hmmm...I don't know. I think contemplating Doom may not be such a bad thing, to wit
3916 They shall have Layers of Fire above them, and Layers (of Fire) below them with this does Allah warn off His servants "O my servants! then fear Me!"
Just a thought.
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Salaam.
There are quite the interesting articles on FM.org and PM.org that completely shatter the convemtional view of what Salaat is, when it is performed, how it is performed and what it really means... Even the timings and frequency are debated all throughout the forum...
This is SCARY for many of us. How are we to believe that everything we've been taught so far about praying can be wrong, yet everyone who claims to use Quran Alone methodology is also giving differing opinions. I fear that many will be distraught even more by all this. What are we to do?
Yes, i understand and agree for the need for Muslims to re-examine many issues of our religion but the differences/changes being proposed are just so drastic..and no methodology has even been discussed in order to bring such changes into being and acceptance by the wider Muslim community.
In the end, what if all this is wrong and we end up DOOMED? Hence..i am torn at the moment with what to believe....
Peace Mo.Mentum,
I understand very well what you are saying here.
For me as for many others here the salat issue was the most confusing thing. Of course, we wanna make it right. So is it five times? three times? this way? that way? After quite a while of reading, learning, and thinking it all over, I just started to do my salat regularly (mostly three times sometimes more) and found what I was looking for. After some days or weeks I understood why we are always asked to perform our salat I felt connected to my Creator and this gives me strength and comforts me. This showed me that I was right.I think this site can only help us to see the things from different perspectives but the final steps to God we have to take on our own and they're quite different as people are different.
Salam
warda -
Peace,
This is SCARY for many of us. How are we to believe that everything we've been taught so far about praying can be wrong, yet everyone who claims to use Quran Alone methodology is also giving differing opinions. I fear that many will be distraught even more by all this. What are we to do?
For me as for many others here the salat issue was the most confusing thing. Of course, we wanna make it right. So is it five times? three times? this way? that way?
After quite a while of reading, learning, and thinking it all over, I just started to do my salat regularly (mostly three times sometimes more) and found what I was looking for. After some days or weeks I understood why we are always asked to perform our salat I felt connected to my Creator and this gives me strength and comforts me. This showed me that I was right.
I?ve long abandoned the dogmatic rituals of praying towards a man-made idol-worshipping rock structure, regardless of 3 times, 5 times, this way or that way. I also learnt that most of what I used to pray during the rituals was not at all for/to GOD. I?ve always understood salaat to mean commitments, obligations, duties, etc. since the day I first got introduced to Aidid Safar's article (some 2 years ago).
My salaat are the obligations and duties that challenge me to serve and live them in light of the Quran as per my ways of life in the most righteous manner. That, by itself, is not easy to maintain, hence one must strive to keep up to prescribed obligations and duties by practice and adherence via reason, prudence and self-righteousness.
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My salaat are the obligations and duties that challenge me to serve and live them in light of the Quran as per my ways of life in the most righteous manner. That, by itself, is not easy to maintain, hence one must strive to keep up to prescribed obligations and duties by practice and adherence via reason, prudence and self-righteousness.
Peace brother. But what are those obligations, duties that you speak of?
And i don't agree with Qa'ba being a rock of idol worship. True, many will kiss and try to touch the black stone at the corner of the Qa'ba, but even the Righteous Caliph Omar said that he wouldn't have bothered with that stone had he not seen the Prophet pbuh do it. And it was meant as nothing else but to mark the starting position of the Tawaf. There is much mythology surrounding the black stone itself (rock from paradise, meteor, etc...) all that is inconsequential. Point is, the building itself serves as a focus point.
We must realize a simple miracle at work here around the Qa'ba. Have you ever been there, or seen on TV the multitudes of birds that fly above it in rotation with the people below. And not once do they defecate around the area? I found this to be quite odd myself... )
The Qur'an does mention the Qa'ba as being the first house of worship set up for mankind on Earth, built by Abraham and Ishmael. So it's not some building that popped out of no where. So no one is relying on Hadith and other stories for that. The building does indeed have a purpose.
Abraham's religion was still alive in the days of Muhammad, they called them 7unafa, plural of 7anif. After several centuries, the people of Mecca had forgotten the original message and fell into idol worship. That much is known.
The Qa'ba itself is not worshipped, nor is God thought to reside there or anything else of the sort. So there is none of the blah blah justifications that most idol worshippers will use to justify that they worship not the form, but the spirit that resides within the form. NO. The Qa'ba's shape, color and position is supposed to be an allegory of God. A metaphor. It is shapeless (hence a non perfect cube), colorless (black), and everything rotates around it. So ya... personally i still think we need to be careful not to go from one extreme to the other.
As for Salaat, structured or not, it must remain an important facet of our daily rituals. imho.
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As for Salaat, structured or not, it must remain an important facet of our daily rituals. imho.
Trying to live a righteous life with God-consciouness - is that not ritual enough?
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Trying to live a righteous life with God-consciouness - is that not ritual enough?
Mmm no. God demands physical excertion as well as spiritual and behavioural. It's a combination of all that makes the system complete.
I'm starting to sense that this might be turning into some New Age movement, where "do what you feel is enough" is the rule, "as long as you're a good person", nothing else matters. "Worship God whichever way you want as long as you live a good life". Well i disagree, that's not submitting to God's Will. It's becoming submission to your own whims as to what is easier to follow. "Well i dont need to do Salaat cuz i dont find the definition of it fits what i deem is necessary to do to maintain a righteous demeaner". Careful, that kind of thinking could trap you.
God has made Salaat, Sawm and other rituals incumbent upon us, as He's made them so on nations that had come before us. He warns again and again how people twisted the rituals to make them easier on themselves and do it their own way. Ibliss is indeed very seductive...
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Trying to live a righteous life with God-consciouness - is that not ritual enough?
Mmm no. God demands physical excertion as well as spiritual and behavioural. It's a combination of all that makes the system complete.
Physical exertion? Why? Is God keen on exercise?
"Worship God whichever way you want as long as you live a good life".
A righteous Life as oppose to a good life - good life is about eating healthy foods -)
Well i disagree, that's not submitting to God's Will.
Bowing down 5 times a day is submitting to God's will?
How so? Any tyrant can force us to bow down to him! But God is not a tyrant. Do you see God as a tyrant?It's becoming submission to your own whims as to what is easier to follow.
Really? Living a righteous life involves having compassion for your fellow man. And compassion is never easy! Compassion does not come easily to us. Compassion needs to cultivated and nurtured within us. It takes a degree of commitment and dedication.
God has made Salaat, Sawm and other rituals incumbent upon us, as He's made them so on nations that had come before us. He warns again and again how people twisted the rituals to make them easier on themselves and do it their own way. Ibliss is indeed very seductive...
If this was the case then we would have found that instead of 30 fasts a month, people would have twisted it to 3. Instead of 5 burdenful prayers a day people would have twisted it into 1 prayer day.
Regards,
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God has made Salaat, Sawm and other rituals incumbent upon us, as He's made them so on nations that had come before us. He warns again and again how people twisted the rituals to make them easier on themselves and do it their own way. Ibliss is indeed very seductive...
Salam Mo.mentum
I agree with you but yet we have to question questionable practices like kissing a stone, adore the messenger more than God, taking hadiths more important than the Quran, ... any kind of renewal which are imposed by men like the calendar and others. For that reason it is important of being critical.
Salam
warda -
PEACE, MO MENTUM,
And i don't agree with Qa'ba being a rock of idol worship. True, many will kiss and try to touch the black stone at the corner of the Qa'ba, but even the Righteous Caliph Omar said that he wouldn't have bothered with that stone had he not seen the Prophet pbuh do it. And it was meant as nothing else but to mark the starting position of the Tawaf. There is much mythology surrounding the black stone itself (rock from paradise, meteor, etc...) all that is inconsequential. Point is, the building itself serves as a focus point.
1722 Take not with Allah another object of worship; or thou (O man!) wilt sit in disgrace and destitution.
Per the above ayat, of course the kaaba is an idol. Isn't it an OBJECT and don't you see how people venerate it, fawn all over it, adore it, and revere it? These feelings/behaviors of adoration and veneration should only be for Allah and not some material object. The Kaaba is an idol and those venerate it are mushriks...plain and simple. Anyway...how do you know that the Prophet kissed the black stone and then Omar did the same? Where you there to witness this yourself?
Looking forward to your reply.
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PEACE, DANISH,
I also learnt that most of what I used to pray during the rituals was not at all for/to GOD. I?ve always understood salaat to mean commitments, obligations, duties, etc. since the day I first got introduced to Aidid Safar's article (some 2 years ago).
My salaat are the obligations and duties that challenge me to serve and live them in light of the Quran as per my ways of life in the most righteous manner. That, by itself, is not easy to maintain, hence one must strive to keep up to prescribed obligations and duties by practice and adherence via reason, prudence and self-righteousness.
No doubt.
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Salaam all.
Guys..i'm not condoning the veneration of the Qa'ba, and especially the black stone. Obviously some people go that extreme and do venerate it and hold it dear, but most Muslims i know do not. As per the Qur'an, it is God's first house! And i mean physical house.
I don't condone completley ignoring the Qa'ba, just as i dont condone venerating it. But i think you guys are making the mistake of linking what you see on TV people doing during Hajj with worshipping a stone. Some factions within Islam such as Shia and Sufis have actually venerated saints and ask them for help and visit their graves and ask them for intercession, THAT IS CLEAR SHIRK.
YES, our religion is a religion of reason and conviction, but i don't agree with how easily most people on here are disregarding EVERYTHING about the religion . Ok fine, Hadiths are not reliable, but some here are going to the other extreme and even ignoring what the Qur'an is saying about these holy places.
And also, the majority of Muslims do not idolize the prophet, but honor him as God's Messenger, just as the Qur'an always refers to him in many places. "In'Allah wa Rassulihi" is there SOOO many times. Are we to claim we base ourselves on purely the Qur'an and ignore this simple fact.
ALSO, yes God does ask you to do physical excercice while worshipping him. By binding Salaat with actual physical movement, it becomes a more complete form of adoration which engages all your senses. And if you believe in the Eastern concept of chakras, it makes alot of sense.
Again, if people saw the Qa'ba as an idol, they would be asking it for intercession and forgiveness. They simply don't. It is merely a physical location used as a focal point for us to orient our rituals to, and not to pray to. Everything in this Creation is an allegory for everything else, we go around the Qa'ba as the planets orbit the sun, as the magnetic field is generated around a current, as the spin movement of electorns around their nucleous..counter-clockwise..
I am but a warner to my brothers and sisters in faith. Do not rush to the other extreme.
Examples showing that Masjid al-Haram is an actual physical place
2125 21272144 specifically explains why God chose a Qibla, because people kept facing different directions, even the sky when praying to Him. Hence the Ka'ba at the Sacred Mosque, or Restricted Temple. Whichever translation you prefer.
2158 speaks of visiting the holy hills of Safa and Marwa, near the source of ZamZam..close to the Sacred Mosque for Hajj and Umrah.
397 speaks of visiting the place for Hajj.
595 and 597 specifically names the Qa'ba as a site of offerings to repent for those who kill game during the sacred months and other stuff. (5100 in FM.org's translation..odd)
836 talks about the idolater's Salaat at the Sanctuary that was just noise and meaningless.
1437 Abraham tells God where he left his offspring, in a valley, by God's sacred house. (FM.org 1440)
2229 and Hajj at the most ancient House. (2228 FM.org)
524 calls it the "constructed sancturary"
etc etc..shall i go on?
I never realized that the verse numbering was that dissimlar in the 'official' and FM.org versions until just now. I'm gonna have to look into that. Yes yes i know the verse numbering itself is recent and so doesn't really matter. But in a way it does for coherehence's sake.
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As for the calendar. That's up to debate. So lets! Can anyone clarify this for me? or point me to a thread that does?
If you speak truth, then show me your proof. I'm not an antagonist, but i want to be convinced. Until then, i keep what has been established for so many centuries.