Abraham, the Arabs the House and Hajj
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Momentun, can I just show you something here. About how you construct 'knowledge, ok?
MomentumI was browsing through older threads regarding "Arab Conspiracies", Salaat, and Hajj and other hotly debated issues. And there seems to be a lack of knowledge in regards to Abraham.
Lack of knowledge about Ibrahim, you say. Where ELSE can you gain knowledge about Ibrahim? Note that im not saying 'data' or 'information'. Knowledge is something verifiable.
You go on to say
Some people are claiming that how could it have been Abraham and Ishmael that built the Ka'aba or Baytu'LLAH in Arabia if the Qur'an specifically says that no warner/prophet/messenger was ever sent to the Arabs. The question itself is flawed as history is being ignored as described by the Qur'an.
Whose history are we talking about here? Is history a neutral, objective and verifiable entity?
You then explain 14/37
Obviously, as per God's command, Abraham left Haggar and Ishmael in the wilderness. Hence, there was no Makkah/Bakkah at the time. There were no Arabs per se either. Abraham himself was Babylonian originally if you all recall. The Arabs are said to be descendants of Ishamel. The reason they are called "ARABS" is due to the Hebrew word "ARAVA" which means WILDERNESS or DESERT.
How is this 'obvious' ? How did you come to term this information as knowledge?
This is my point. Much of what you hadithists claim simply have no basis in al-quraan. Would you not rather build your world-view according to it?
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peace mo,
Now that you have read the article, and you also have the book, you can verify what I wrote. Hopefully, you will see that I presented both sides, and am therefore open to healthy debate. I also hope you found the content of the article accurate. D
I liked the part you quoted. Apparently, some people are trying to review the traditional hadith in such a manner, see the following thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4056For an understanding of 3356, please read my article on "salat"
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htmWakas
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peace mq,
Agreed.
It is a continual thing. One cannot establish it then forget about it. For al-mumineen it is a regular/timed thing.
the signs would include implementing al-quran in oneself, and consequently the community. Establishing the going/turning towards / bond, and in our case The God / al quran / al din. This would produce betterment for oneself, and others etc.Please forgive me if I am brief.
Wakas
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I think you just hit the nail on the head there, Wakas. Iqamus-salaat is to get into the state, but there'd be point without actually BEING in as-salaat later on.
What do you think of 35/18?
And don't worry about brevity. Some people here write oodles and oodles, but its all just poop. Brief but substantial, that's best.
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3518 perhaps suggests you can only warn those who establish the slw because they would be the ones active in this process, thus heed what it entails.
Good point. And notice the wording
Thou canst but admonish such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer. And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination.
Do you notice that 'those who fear thier lord bilghaib and establish as-salaat' does NOT go on to say 'and render az-zakaat' . Rather it says 'wa man yatazakka'. Why doesnt it say 'and render az-zakaat'. My opinion is, because khusyu to Allah bilghaib and iqamis salaat IS the rendering of az-zakaat. Your thoughts?
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well I do think to establish slw and atw zkw are related
my article on slw"]When one upholds/maintains (aqimu) the going/turning towards (link/bond) one is then in a position to 'bring forth / produce / show' (atawoo) the purification/betterment. Simple. The two terms reinforce and complement each other.
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Do you notice that 'those who fear thier lord bilghaib and establish as-salaat' does NOT go on to say 'and render az-zakaat' . Rather it says 'wa man yatazakka'. Why doesnt it say 'and render az-zakaat'. My opinion is, because khusyu to Allah bilghaib and iqamis salaat IS the rendering of az-zakaat. Your thoughts?
I just re-read this point today. Impressive.
