Is swine halal-2?
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Salaam brother Mz,
Lawful/allowed to you the beneficence/gifts/favours except what is mentioned to you so SHUN THE ABOMINATION OF IDOLS AND SPEECH LYING.BEING UPRIGHT TO ALLAH NOT ASSOCIATING PARTENERS UNTO HIM and whoever assigns partners to Allah as if he had fallen from the sky and had snatched him the birds or blown him the wind to a place far off that and whoever honours the Symbols of Allah then it is truly from the piety of the hearts.You have in them benefits for an appinted term (before you start to get old and weak) then you go unto the house of the old.
I hope you dont think Allah is saying we have benefits in the cattle I think even a tiger knows there are benefits in cattle no one needs telling but what we do need is to be told we have benefits in doing good deeds symbols of Allah ?
Indeed I don't think that. Here's my tafseer of the passage
22/26 Allah says that site of the house was established for Ibrahim.
22/27 The call is made among humankind with al-hajj. They go to the site
22/28 These people who go will witness the benefits during the appointed days over (and please note there the wording) what Allah has 'rizq'ed (maa razqahu) from 'bahimatul an'aam' (quadrupeds of the cattle). This definitely doesn't refer to general benefits.
22/29They then complete thier rites and tawaaf to the Baitul atiq
22/30Dhalika is mentioned here, liking the preceding passage with the verse. Whoever honours the hurumaat/restrictions of Allah, its good for him. He's made halal al-an'aam EXCEPT that which is recited on us. If you take 'an'aam' to be benefits, why would Allah make any benefit haraam?
therefore avoid rijus min al-awthaan and avoid a word which is zoor.I suggest taking a look at al-awthaan and qaulan zoor. Clearly the usual word for idols like 'aaliha, andaada and asnaam' arent used there and 'zoor' isn't the same as 'kazb' or 'ifk', the usual word for lies.
The context tells me that bahimatul an'aam is the subject here though and there is from them, somethign recited which is haraam. So the word 'benefits' (man'faa, usually) doesn't come into it.
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Salaams Br. Mquran,
i think what i was really trying to get accross was that whether Allah is saying cattle or anything other ,In this Ayah Allah is allowing something and forbidding something and these both are written in this same ayah-as far as i understand it.
lets see
Lawful/allowed to you the cattle/beneficence/gifts/favours except what is mentioned to you so SHUN THE ABOMINATION OF IDOLS AND SPEECH LYING.
Another example
51,O ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals, with the exceptions herein- animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.
in this above AQllah has prohibited in the one and the same ayah - but in this case they are animals-i think , but in the previous they are not animals but something other ,and i checked according to the QD -they are idols and false speech.
Salaams.
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Salaam brother MZ,
I agree the end of the verse is unusual. Perhaps you can use your dictionary and tell us what awthan and zuur means!
To me, the 'bahimah' mentioned in 22/28 is an indication that an'aam in 22/30 refers to cattle and not benefits. This is further reinforced by the word 'dhalika' in 22/30.
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PBM I agree, in that, lahma khinzeer, means the "ill-seeming/that what is seen as bad", however, you still have not proven that lahma khinzeer means the animal pig. Ayat 4143 could apply to both translations, meaning, if lahma khinzeer means the animal pig it applies or if it means ill-seeming/that which is seen as bad, it applies. So, you haven't proved your claim that lahma khinzeerin means the animal pig. Ayat 4160 tells us that a people, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, were forbidden some good and wholesome things which were previously halal to them. Ayat 6146 tells us what those things were and the pig could not possibly be one of them, because pigs don't have claws. In addition, the following ayat and definitons also rule out the quadruped/pig, being haram
2228 That they may witness advantages for them and mention the name of Allah during stated days over what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds, then eat of them and feed the distressed one, the needy.
Main Entry BAHIMATUN beast. any quadruped, even if in the water.
Main Entry QUADRUPED an animal having four feet.
Ok good. So you admit lahmul khinzeer (untranslated) has always been haram. Now I will approach your questions.
I've admitted to nothing of the such as my above completed statement indicates. Your attempt to twist my words to mean other than what they clearly mean--that you have not proven lahma khinzeerin means the animal pig. Very disengenuous of you, but that is to be expected from you.
PBM You quote ayat 4143 to support your superstition that, the animal pig was always haram and I refuted that assertion. Now, tell us, according to Al-Quran, WHY was/is the pig haram.
I quoted 41/43 NOT to prove that lahmul khinzeer refers to the pig but instead to refute your initial statement about 'the jews at the time of the prophet' argument. I want to remove this historical 'jew', people of the book, torah stuff from the equation. Once we do this, I will approach your questions. It appears you've acknowledged this.
We are way past this. Why are you still carying this corpse? As I said to you at least three times now, we don't have to use the term Jew, however, "some people or another", prior to Al-Quran, were forbidden to eat certain things due to their transgressions. These same things prior to their transgression were halal to them. Frankly...you've accomplished nothing toward proving your case. You are simply stalling.
I will repeat Lahumul khinzeer (untranslated) has always been haraam as per 2/213 and 41/43 and even 46/9.
I agree, the ill-seeming/that which is seen as bad is haram. You have not, however, proven that lahama khinzeerin means the animal pig. When will this simple reality dawn on you?
Let us continueAyat 4160 tells us that a people, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, were forbidden some good and wholesome things which were previously halal to them
4/160. Fabizulmin Mina Al-Ladhina Hadu So for the zulm of alladhina haadu HarramnaAlayhim Tayyibatin 'Uhillat Lahum We restrict on them the wholesome Wa BisaddihimAn Sabili Allahi Kathiraan And for thier preventing many from the path of Allah. The phrase 'SOME good and wholesome things' isnt there. Haramna alahim tayyibaatin means 'we restrict/forbade on them wholesome things'. There's no 'min' there. Don't forget you said
This is my understanding, because Allah chooses His Words and means what He says
Therefore, 'some' cannot be in there without 'min' or 'fareeqan min'.No problem, delete wholesome. Here is another translation
4160 Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
The ayat hasn't changed at all relative to my argument. Food, comes under the rubic--"good things". Next trick!
Once again, this isn't a refutation to the pig argument but merely to show that 4/160 cannot apply in your argument because it talks about wholesome things (tayyibaatin) and not 'some wholesome things'
Moving on...Exactly, so what did you little digression prove relative to your argument?...nothing.
PBM Ayat 6146 tells us what those things were and the pig could not possibly be one of them, because pigs don't have claws.
I agree that the pig isn't one of those mentioned in 6/146 but I need to ask you, where's your QURANIC evidence to show that zhufrin means 'claws' ?
Lisaanun arabiyoon mubiin gives both 'claws' and 'hooves'. Please give your reason for choosing one over the other. Sorry but the mu'jam's not going to be of help today )
I have three dictionaries and neither of them define thufr as hoof. Look, the ayat cannot mean hoof anyway, because sheep and oxen have hooves. In addition, it wasn't the meat meat of the sheep and oxen which were forbidden to the people spoken of in ayat 6146, but their fat except that which adhered to their bones. So, if thufr=hoof, then the entire sheep and ox would have been haram and not just their fat.
2228...2230 That they may witness advantages for them and mention the name of Allah during stated days over what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds, then eat of them and feed the distressed one, the needy....That (shall be so); and whoever respects the sacred ordinances of Allah, it is better for him with his Lord; and the cattle are made lawful for you, except that which is recited to you, therefore avoid the uncleanness of the idols and avoid false words,
Wow, I can sense your elation coming through the screen! Yes, sadly you've 'won' the argument...So funnily enough, there are exceptions, namely what is recited on you from the cattle. Would you care to tell me what that exception is? Is 'ill-seeming' a type of cattle?
Ayat 2228, clearly, designates quadrupeds as halal, because Allah says to eat them. Further, Allah does not mention some parts of the quadruped as being halal and others being haram, hence, the entire quadruped is halal ( remember now, you cannot make haram what Allah has not). Pigs are quadrupeds, hence, are halal--in their entirety. Btw, there is no mention of quadruped in ayat 2230. To support your superstition, is to bring ayats 2228 and 2230 into contradiction with each other.
22/30 above is definitive proof of this now. Thanks for pointing out 22/28. Word 'backfire' sort of comes to mind now, doesn't it?
LOL!! proof of what? If a certain cattle quadruped, as you are claiming, is haram, then that entire cattle i.e pig, is haram and not just part of it. Lahma=flesh, which means the hooves, the bones, and the fat would be halal. Backfire?! man, you just love to believe your own baloney. The more you struggle the faster and deeper you sink.
PBM 1. Why did Allah, make the pig haram.
Because it is not tayyib. All tayyib food is halal.
You haven't answered the question. Why isn't the pig, according to your interpretation of Al-Quran, haram/not tayyib? What is Allah's reason for this...if you are truthful?
PBM 2. Provide the evidence where, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, Allah, to some peoples or another, made the pig haram and why
Lahumul khizeer's always been haraam.
Agreed, but you haven't proven, via Al-Quran anyway, that it means the animal pig. Ayats 4160, 55, and 6146 rejects your conclusion.
PBM 3. Do pigs have claws?
No.
PBM 4. Is the pig a quadruped?
Yes.
Thank you. Well, given that pigs do not have claws and are quadrupeds, the people who preceded the advent Al-Quran, could not have, per ayats 4160, 6146, and 2228, been forbidden the meat of pigs.
All your questions have been answered directly. Awaiting your response to 22/30. Thanks.
While I answered yours, but you must still haven't answer the following
Why isn't the pig, according to your interpretation of Al-Quran, haram/not tayyib? What is Allah's reason for this...if you are truthful? Allah, made haram the consumption of certain things as a result of man transgressing or because it rijsun. You've already stated that the pig is not rijsun and Allah doesn't mention khinzeerin/pig being made haram due to man's transgressing, so why, according to your interpretation of Al-Quran, is the pig haram? Please, no more lame, "because Allah says so", responses.
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I've admitted to nothing of the such as my above completed statement indicates. Your attempt to twist my words to mean other than what they clearly mean--that you have not proven lahma khinzeerin means the animal pig. Very disengenuous of you, but that is to be expected from you.
No? But in this very post from which I quoting, you have just said
Quote
I will repeat Lahumul khinzeer (untranslated) has always been haraam as per 2/213 and 41/43 and even 46/9.I agree, the ill-seeming/that which is seen as bad is haram. You have not, however, proven that lahama khinzeerin means the animal pig. When will this simple reality dawn on you?
This particular section is simply to refute your previous 'jew, people of the book, at the time of the prophet' and all that nonsense. Instead of admitting you were wrong there (which I dont expect a person with an ego like yours to do), you just dismissed it. Not nice.
No problem, delete wholesome. Here is another translation
4160 Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
The ayat hasn't changed at all relative to my argument. Food, comes under the rubic--"good things". Next trick!
So its a 'trick' to try to get the most accurate understanding possible? Al-quraan isn't there for tricks. You've been spending too much time with sunnis.
Exactly, so what did you little digression prove relative to your argument?...nothing.
It proves how careless you are when employing the book of Allah in your discourse. Hence my suggestion, stick to sunni-bashing. Your rude, brash and obnoxious ways are fit for only that.
I have three dictionaries and neither of them define thufr as hoof. Look, the ayat cannot mean hoof anyway, because sheep and oxen have hooves. In addition, it wasn't the meat meat of the sheep and oxen which were forbidden to the people spoken of in ayat 6146, but their fat except that which adhered to their bones. So, if thufr=hoof, then the entire sheep and ox would have been haram and not just their fat.
Well, both my sources say 'hoof'. So you're saying 'hoof' + 'fat' = sheep/oxen ? What about its actual meat?
Ayat 2228, clearly, designates quadrupeds as halal, because Allah says to eat them. Further, Allah does not mention some parts of the quadruped as being halal and others being haram, hence, the entire quadruped is halal ( remember now, you cannot make haram what Allah has not). Pigs are quadrupeds, hence, are halal--in their entirety. Btw, there is no mention of quadruped in ayat 2230. To support your superstition, is to bring ayats 2228 and 2230 into contradiction with each other.
This is what happens when you read half a Quran. I suppose the ayat below contradicts itself then
O ye who believe! fulfil obligations. Lawful unto you are all BAHIMATUL AN'AAM , EXCEPT WHAT IS RECITED ON YOU But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.
(5/1)Questions
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Does bahimatul an'aam mean 'quadruped cattle' still or will you want to change the meaning now?
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What is 'recited on you'?
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What is the exception named ? A new species called 'ill-seeming'?
Every single word is there on purpose, right Priesty ? So now you need to show us what this species is FROM THE BOOK. Thank you.
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Salaams Mquran,
O ye who believe! fulfil obligations. Lawful unto you are all BAHIMATUL AN'AAM , EXCEPT WHAT IS (being) RECITED ON YOU ?.. animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.
(5 /1)But ? I don?t honestly think there is a But! IN THE ABOVE SENTENCE STRUCTURE.
And what is being forbidden is the animals of the chase,and nothing more in this case.
For your info(regarding 2230) although even dictioneries can be wrong!
According to Page 238 Qd and Page 601 QD.
Zur = Falshood/False speech/False , and Wathana = To remain in one condition/raise for honouring/idols/e.g cross of gold which people wear.
God Bless.
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PBM I've admitted to nothing of the such as my above completed statement indicates. Your attempt to twist my words to mean other than what they clearly mean--that you have not proven lahma khinzeerin means the animal pig. Very disengenuous of you, but that is to be expected from you.
No? But in this very post from which I quoting, you have just said
MQURAN I will repeat Lahumul khinzeer (untranslated) has always been haraam as per 2/213 and 41/43 and even 46/9.
PBM I agree, the ill-seeming/that which is seen as bad is haram. You have not, however, proven that lahama khinzeerin means the animal pig. When will this simple reality dawn on you?
This particular section is simply to refute your previous 'jew, people of the book, at the time of the prophet' and all that nonsense. Instead of admitting you were wrong there (which I dont expect a person with an ego like yours to do), you just dismissed it. Not nice.
I don't know if it means Jew or not and that is why I have not argued this point with it. What you can't seem to grasp is, it doesn't matter whether they are Jews or not. Bottomline, the ayat is stating that people, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, were forbidden to eat certain animals in their entirety ( those with claws) and a certain part (the fat) of two other animals (oxen and sheep). Further, these people, wohever they were were, were forbidden these items due to their transgressions and those same items were halal prior to the transgression. If you want to debate if "Jew" is actually in that ayat, well, start a thread on it and debate it.
PBM No problem, delete wholesome. Here is another translation
4160 Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
The ayat hasn't changed at all relative to my argument. Food, comes under the rubic--"good things". Next trick!
So its a 'trick' to try to get the most accurate understanding possible? Al-quraan isn't there for tricks. You've been spending too much time with sunnis.
LOL! Man, who are kidding?? You aren't trying to gain "understanding", you are trying with all of your might to simply trip me up so that you can continue in your anti-pork superstition and gain some ego satisfaction, please. You are as transparent as a clean window pane. Btw, I am not a sunni. Please do not project your character defects on to me, thanks again.
Exactly, so what did you little digression prove relative to your argument?...nothing.
It proves how careless you are when employing the book of Allah in your discourse. Hence my suggestion, stick to sunni-bashing. Your rude, brash and obnoxious ways are fit for only that.
Why is it that simply because I have certitude and proof of my assertion that, I get labelled as "rude, brash and obnoxious"?? Once again, I ask you to, STOP PROJECTIING YOUR CHARACTER DEFECTS ON TO ME. It is you is rude, brash and obnoxious. Go back and read your posts and see how you've addressed me from day one. My God, man, don't you have any integrity at all?!
PBM I have three dictionaries and neither of them define thufr as hoof. Look, the ayat cannot mean hoof anyway, because sheep and oxen have hooves. In addition, it wasn't the meat meat of the sheep and oxen which were forbidden to the people spoken of in ayat 6146, but their fat except that which adhered to their bones. So, if thufr=hoof, then the entire sheep and ox would have been haram and not just their fat.
Well, both my sources say 'hoof'. So you're saying 'hoof' + 'fat' = sheep/oxen ? What about its actual meat?
Allah is saying that, thufr means claws and cannot mean hoof ( see my above explanation as to why not). Allah, did not make the meat of sheep and oxen haram to those people mentioned in 6146, just their fat, except, that which adhered to their backs and bones.
Ayat 2228, clearly, designates quadrupeds as halal, because Allah says to eat them. Further, Allah does not mention some parts of the quadruped as being halal and others being haram, hence, the entire quadruped is halal ( remember now, you cannot make haram what Allah has not). Pigs are quadrupeds, hence, are halal--in their entirety. Btw, there is no mention of quadruped in ayat 2230. To support your superstition, is to bring ayats 2228 and 2230 into contradiction with each other.
This is what happens when you read half a Quran. I suppose the ayat below contradicts itself then
O ye who believe! fulfil obligations. Lawful unto you are all BAHIMATUL AN'AAM , EXCEPT WHAT IS RECITED ON YOU But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.
- Does bahimatul an'aam mean 'quadruped cattle' still or will you want to change the meaning now?
"Quadruped cattle" sounds redundant to me. Again, ayat 2230 does not mention cattle.
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What is 'recited on you'?
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What is the exception named ? A new species called 'ill-seeming'?
What quadrupedS (plural), in their entirety, are haram? You are claiming that the pig, singular, is haram. The ayat is stating that--more than one quadruped is haram, so, what are they? The ayat, based on my understanding, is stating that the animalS of the chase, under a certain condition/for a specific period of time, are haram. What is your explanation? How do you make what is plural into a meaning only one?
Every single word is there on purpose, right Priesty ? So now you need to show us what this species is FROM THE BOOK. Thank you.
Well then, if a certain quadruped, as you are claiming it is, is haram, then that entire qiuadruped i.e pig, is haram and not just part of it. Lahma=flesh, which means the hooves, the bones, and the fat would be halal. What now?
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
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Ok Priest, I'll make it nice and simple for you now.
O ye who believe! fulfil obligations. Lawful unto you are all BAHIMATUL AN'AAM , EXCEPT WHAT IS RECITED ON YOU But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan. (5/1)
Quadruped cattle" sounds redundant to me. Again, ayat 2230 does not mention cattle
Yes but it mentions 'dhalika'. Dhalika relates the verse to the previous exposition. No matter, lets focus on 5/1 above. This is one single verse mentioning bahimatul an'aam.
What quadrupedS (plural), in their entirety, are haram? You are claiming that the pig, singular, is haram. The ayat is stating that--more than one quadruped is haram, so, what are they? The ayat, based on my understanding, is stating that the animalS of the chase, under a certain condition/for a specific period of time, are haram. What is your explanation? How do you make what is plural into a meaning only one?
Read the verse carefully. Bahimaatul an'aam is in plural, yes but NOWHERE DOES 'maa yutlaa alaikum' indicate singleness or plurality. So now, show us where a BAHIMATUL AN'AAM is haraam. Its a very simple question even you should grasp.
If 'maa yutlaa alaikum' refers to 'as-saidu' why was it mentioned after BAHIMATUL AN'AAM and not as-saidu. Furthermore, why is 'wa antum hurumun' after as-said' if what as-said is haraam is 'maa yutlaa alaikum'?
You need to drop your pathetic loser tricks Priesty, but you know, I have to thank you for this discourse. It's a good example of how al-quraan protects its meaning. Khaanz-ara INDEED D
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YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
Yes but it mentions 'dhalika'. Dhalika relates the verse to the previous exposition. No matter, lets focus on 5/1 above. This is one single verse mentioning bahimatul an'aam.
What previous exposition are you talking about?
What quadrupedS (plural), in their entirety, are haram? You are claiming that the pig, singular, is haram. The ayat is stating that--more than one quadruped is haram, so, what are they? The ayat, based on my understanding, is stating that the animalS of the chase, under a certain condition/for a specific period of time, are haram. What is your explanation? How do you make what is plural into a meaning only one?
Read the verse carefully. Bahimaatul an'aam is in plural, yes but NOWHERE DOES 'maa yutlaa alaikum' indicate singleness or plurality.
You read the ayat carefully. LOL!! the quadrupeds is plural bit it's not LOL!! what a hoot. The ayat states quadrupedS, plural, period, end of story. Ayat 2228 is not an example of the..."royal we". My God, must you deny and attempt to twist everything in an attempt to defend your superstitious anti-Quranic notions? Give us a break already, damn. So, I ask you again...what quadrupeds did Allah make haram and why? It is you, who is claiming the pig, a quadruped, is haram so you must prove what quadrupeds did Allah make haram and why?
So now, show us where a BAHIMATUL AN'AAM is haraam. Its a very simple question even you should grasp.
I'm not rying to prove this, this is your argument, so YOU show us. I'm not here to prove your silly silly superstitious notions. You talk alot so now prove alot, got it?..is that simple enough for ya?
You need to drop your pathetic loser tricks Priesty, but you know, I have to thank you for this discourse. It's a good example of how al-quraan protects its meaning. Khaanz-ara INDEED D
LOL! hysterically!!! You have yet to answer the most pertinent question to your superstitious notion (see the above question in bold which you continue to ignore) and you want to call me a loser! LOL!!x10. Man, you are so out of touch with what is real. Look, as far as..."pathetic loser tricks" goes, for that last time...stop projecting YOUR character defects on to me.
You feel that awful weight on your chest?, well, that weight is...ayats 4160, 55, and 6146 lol If I heap to many more on you, they will squash you like a bug lol
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
Are you going to keep on dodging and ducking? What's going to be your excuse this time, Roy? lol
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Peace all,
Everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives, whether grammatically correct or simply the Quran states so, has a REASON, such as gambling, alcoholism, fornication, lying, theft, conjecture, etc., etc. Each of these categories has grave concerns, one way or the other, and PROVEN detrimental.
What is the reason for pig?s meat/flesh to become forbidden? If its rijsun, then WHY is it rijsun? What consequences, if at all, has pig?s meat/flesh bought about on humanity? Has anyone noticed/witnessed any grave concerns for consuming pig?s meat/flesh to be deemed medically, scientifically or logically inedible in our lives and thereby forbidden in the Quran and eaten by millions without a cause?
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
Certainly, this pertinent question has raised eyebrows and caused diarrhea on those who simply cannot either justify or defend their GOD given intellectual capabilites, but simply throw tantrums on grammar and GOD's Words to justify what is NOT NATURAL/REAL. roll shock
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PEACE, DANISH,
Everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives, whether grammatically correct or simply the Quran states so, has a REASON, such as gambling, alcoholism, fornication, lying, theft, conjecture, etc., etc. Each of these categories has grave concerns, one way or the other, and PROVEN detrimental. What is the reason for pig?s meat/flesh to become forbidden? If its rijsun, then WHY is it rijsun? What consequences, if at all, has pig?s meat/flesh bought about on humanity? Has anyone noticed/witnessed any grave concerns for consuming pig?s meat/flesh to be deemed medically, scientifically or logically inedible in our lives and thereby forbidden in the Quran and eaten by millions without a cause?
PBM WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
Certainly, this pertinent question has raised eyebrows and caused diarrhea on those who simply cannot either justify or defend their GOD given intellectual capabilites, but simply throw tantrums on grammar and GOD's Words to justify what is NOT NATURAL/REAL.
Main Entry SUPERSTITION/JIBT a notion maintained despite evidence to contrary a belief or practice resulting from ignorance or a false conception of causation.
In all of my years, it wasn't until I started to debate those, who identify themselves as Muslims, that I began to truly appreciate the above term and its definition. How true ayat 6116 is.
Peace.
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Priest, you're nothing but a dishonest , loud idiot who (in the same manner as those you insulted) substitutes 'loud' text just because you have nothing more to say.
I will ask one more time and then I'll leave you to your pigs.
What is the exception/s to bahimatul an'aam in 5/1?
You know perfectly well it's nothing to do with 'as-said' which Allah says 'wa antum hurumun'.
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Peace Danish,
Everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives, whether grammatically correct or simply the Quran states so, has a REASON, such as gambling, alcoholism, fornication, lying, theft, conjecture, etc., etc. Each of these categories has grave concerns, one way or the other, and PROVEN detrimental.
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly. However, let me ask you, if you don't know the reason fornication is bad, will you fornicate?
3/7 tells us that ar-rasikhu fil ilm /those grounded in knowledge will say even of the mutashabih that they believe in fully without seeing it's ta'wil. So rather than pretend to be a zooologist or a bacteriologist. I don't know why pork is rijsun. But I trust God. If you don't, that's your business. Peace be upon you. You're gonna need it.
Certainly, this pertinent question has raised eyebrows and caused diarrhea on those who simply cannot either justify or defend their GOD given intellectual capabilites, but simply throw tantrums on grammar and GOD's Words to justify what is NOT NATURAL/REAL
Al-quraan is in clear arabic. As Marie has proven, clearly beyond the depth of the mud-puddle brain of the Priest, the form of lahumul khinzeer itself is clearly pointing it to be 'meat of the pig'. If you want to make up language as you go along, again, that's your business. Peace be upon you again and again, you're gonna need it.
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Priest, you're nothing but a dishonest , loud idiot who (in the same manner as those you insulted) substitutes 'loud' text just because you have nothing more to say.
I will ask one more time and then I'll leave you to your pigs.
You know perfectly well it's nothing to do with 'as-said' which Allah says 'wa antum hurumun'.
There's no running away now, dude. You put yourself out here and now you are way over your head, but you've got to deal; no wimping out. How did you put it to me?...whimpering? Well, don't start whimpering now lol.
What is the exception/s to bahimatul an'aam in 5/1?
And I will tell you one more time IT IS YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THE PIG IS HARAM QUADRUPED, THUS, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, SO YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE EXCEPTED QUADRUPEDS ARE. I'm not here to defend/prove your superstitious notions, GOT IT THIS TIME?
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
When are you going to tell us why Allah made the pig haram...can't do it can you? or maybe you can and just want to keep us in suspension, which is it? lol
Priest, you're nothing but a dishonest , loud idiot...
On the contrary, the above ONLY applies to you and it is one more example of you desperately trying to project your character defects on to me; it won't work. You've been obnoxious and insulting from day one. Any rational human being, who reads our exchanges will see you for the indvidual you are in your above quote...and you know it. Your entire position is fradualent and you'd better stop assigning lies to Allah and His Deen (contemplate ayats 733 and 1736). Anyway, you have thoroughly established that you cannot prove why you erroneously claim that Allah made the pig haram, thus, you have nothing to offer so get lost you're finished lol .
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So lets get this straight, Priest
do you believe in 5/1 or not?
If you do,
then what from bahimatul an'aam are HARAM unconditionally as the verse says?
this is my last post unless you answer because i've reached the clarity of the argument. I'm very happy with how al-quraan points this out and its thank to you
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Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly...I don't know why pork is rijsun.
Well, given that YOU DON"T KNOW pork is haram and cannot prove what you conjecture, how then, DO YOU KNOW IT IS, and worse, why do you follow something and encourage others to follow and you don't know if you are correct or not?! You, by maintaining that the pig is haram without being able to prove it via Al-Quran, are doing PRECISELY what Allah has told you NOT TO DO...say anything of Him of which you have NO KNOWLEDGE and following something of which you have NO KNOWLEDGE, to wit
733 Say the things that my Lord hath indeed made HARAM are shameful deeds...and saying things about Allah of which ye have no KNOWLEDGE.
1736 And do not pursue/follow that which you have no KNOWLEDGE...
You will note that, in both ayats it clearly states KNOWLEDGE and not...OPINION. Please learn the difference between these two terms, would you?lol Please study the following, it will help you to discern the difference between knowledge and opinion.
PEACE, TO ALL,
OPINION AND LIE
A question I've been asking myself of late is...is opinion making/conjecturing, when ascribing something to Allah, His Deen, and His Quran, actually giving a lie to Him?
6116 Were you to follow the majority of those on earth, they will lead you away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture they do nothing but lie .
4320 ("Ah!") they say, "If it had been the will of ((Allah)) Most Gracious, we should not have worshipped such (deities)!" Of that they have no knowledge! they do nothing but lie!
5328 And they have no knowledge of it; they do not follow anything but conjecture , and surely conjecture does not avail against the truth at all.
1017 Who does more wrong than such as forge a lie against Allah, or deny His Ayats? But never will prosper those who sin.
Main Entry LIE to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive to create a false or misleading impression falsehood an untrue statement.
It appears from the above defintion that, a lie, doesn't have to be an intention act. Denial for example is an unconscious defense mechanism, hence, a lie.
To say of Allah and/or his Deen, " I think" or "it is my opinion" that so and so means...is in reality to say..."well...I don't know".
Main Entry KHARASA to lie to guess appraise infer on insufficient grounds conjecture form or express opinion without sufficent evidence for proof beg or forge speculate presume.
Main Entry DHANNA/RAMA opinion assumption view belief supposition to imagine to "think" speak conjecturally.
Main Entry FORGE/AFTA to make or imitate falsely especially with intent to defraud countrfeit to form or bring into being.
Main EntrY AFTA/FORGE to advise give an opinion and instruction, judgement, or decision in a matter of law explain the meaning of furnish an explanation
Main Entry SPECULATE to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence
Main Entry CONJECTURE supposition inference from defective or presumptive evidence a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork.
Main Entry SUPPOSITION to lay down tentatively as a hypothesis, assumption, or proposal to hold as an opinion.
Main Entry PRESUMPTIVE based on probability or presumption giving grounds for reasonable opinion or belief an attitude or belief dictated by probability assumption the ground, reason, or evidence lending probability to a belief a legal inference as to the existence or truth of a fact not certainly known that is drawn from the known or proved existence of some other fact.
Main Entry OPINION belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.
Main Entry "I"...THINK to have as an opinion to regard as.
Main Entry IMPRESSION a vague idea in which some confidence is placed.
Main Entry ALAMA to distinguish sign science knowledge.
Main Entry POSITIVE KNOWLEDGE not speculative incontestable independent of changing circumstances.
Main Entry KNOW to be certain of.
Main Entry CERTAIN known or proved to be true indisputable, dependable, reliable.
Main Entry KNOWLEDGE the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
Main Entry FACT the quality of being actual something that has actual existence a piece of information presented as having objective reality- in fact in truth.
Main EntryTRUTH the state of being the case fact the body of real things, events, and facts actuality.
733 Say the things that my Lord has indeed made
haram
are shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He has given no authority; and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.1736 And pursue not that of which you have no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning)
It is clear from the above ayats and definitions that, conjecture and knowledge are stand in oppostional to each other, and ascribing anything to Allah or His Deen or His Quran which isn't Quranic knowledge/fact/truth, comes under the heading of a...lie. A lie, according to the above definition can simply mean an untrue statement regardless of intent to lie or not. Hence, to give one's opinion of Allah, His Deen, His Quran, is to ascribe a lie to Him, because although an opinion/conjecture is comprised of some facts, the opinion as a whole...is not factual. In regard to Al-Quran, it is not only comprised of facts, but as a whole it is factual.
22 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
A. GUIDANCE the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise .
Allah, per ayat 22, says that, relative to guidance , there is no doubt in Al-Quran, that is, nothing in Al-Quran can be or is conjecture/opinion. Al-Quran, then, is a book of incontestable facts, truth, reality. With these things in mind then, per ayat 733, we can see why Allah commands that no one conjecture or give opinions about Him, His Deen and His Quran, because it is a book free of conjecture or opinions, hence, when ascribing something to Allah, His Deen, His Quran, one can and must only state facts/truth, that is, if one has taken the time to study what the ayat is stating. There is no possible reason for Allah giving mankind a Book of incontestable facts, truth, reality, only for mankind to say..."well, I can only give my opinion or Allah knows best". This entire notion is contradictory to the reason for Al-Quran's existence and its design...to give mankind clear, indesputable, and incontestable knowledge/truth/facts of what Allah demands of mankind before the Day of the Reckoning of the Souls..
In conclusion
1017 Who does more wrong than such as forge a lie against Allah, or deny His Ayats? But never will prosper those who sin.
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So lets get this straight, Priest
do you believe in 5/1 or not?
If you do,
then what from bahimatul an'aam are HARAM unconditionally as the verse says?
this is my last post unless you answer because i've reached the clarity of the argument. I'm very happy with how al-quraan points this out and its thank to you D
And I will tell you one more time IT IS YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THE PIG IS HARAM QUADRUPED, THUS, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, SO YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE EXCEPTED QUADRUPEDS ARE. I'm not here to defend/prove your superstitious notions, GOT IT THIS TIME?
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
There's no running away now, dude. You put yourself out here and now you are way over your head, but you've got to deal; no wimping out. How did you put it to me?...whimpering? Well, don't start whimpering now. "Funny how words can backfire" and take a chunk out of your butt, huh lol ?
When are you going to tell us why Allah made the pig haram...can't do it can you? or maybe you can and just want to keep us in suspension, which is it? lol Oh, but you said the following
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly...I don't know why pork is rijsun.
Your repsonse is right up there with Jaxal's
I on occasion smoke weed
Anyway, if given that you cannot prove your argument, then, by all means, leave the discussion, because, frankly, we've had enough of your half-baked notions/ideas/distactions/superstitions.
Peace.
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Priest, you misunderstand what im trying to ask.
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do you agree that bahimatul an'aam are halal EXCEPT what's recited on us (illa maa yutlaa alaikum)? Yes or no please.
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If your answer is 'yes' , tell what that bahimatul an'aam which is recited upon us is?
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly...I don't know why pork is rijsun.
Get a life and stop pestering grown-ups with your juvenile and half-baked distactions.Good, concealing ANOTHER ayat
High above all is God, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed, but say, "O my Lord! INCREASE MY ILM. (20/114)
I accept Allah's revelations in toto and I don't use it to feed a psychotic ego which needs constant feeding of the 'i'm right' vitamin. As i said, im very glad you brought this subject up.
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Priest, you misunderstand what im trying to ask.
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do you agree that bahimatul an'aam are halal EXCEPT what's recited on us (illa maa yutlaa alaikum)? Yes or no please.
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If your answer is 'yes' , tell what that bahimatul an'aam which is recited upon us is?
I understand you perfectly. Please answer the following
And I will tell you again
IT IS YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THE PIG IS HARAM QUADRUPED, THUS, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, SO YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE EXCEPTED QUADRUPEDS ARE. I'm not here to defend/prove your superstitious notions.
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
So, do you know or not?
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly...I don't know why pork is rijsun.
Anyway, if given that you cannot prove your argument, then, by all means, leave the discussion, because, frankly, we've had enough of your half-baked notions/ideas/distactions/superstitions.
Good, concealing ANOTHER ayat
Speak for yourself.
High above all is God, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed, but say, "O my Lord! INCREASE MY ILM. (20/114)
I accept Allah's revelations in toto and I don't use it to feed a psychotic ego which needs constant feeding of the 'i'm right' vitamin. As i said, im very glad you brought this subject up.
On the contrary, what you accept is conjecture and error in place of guidance and facts, please get it straight. It is your own ego that has lead you into the deep waters of this debate and now you find yourself drowned. When you answered... "I don't know why the pig is rijsun", you not only demolished you position/assertion that the pig is haram, but you went dead against Allah per ayat 733 and 1736, but you don't possess the taqwa yet to reverse yourself and that is "psychotic ego".
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