who is a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you,
- Can we not conclude from this verse that a messenger has to be inspired by God ?
Is it a surprise for the people that We would inspire a man from amongst them "Warn mankind and give good news to those who believe, that they will have a footing of truth with their Lord." The rejecters said "This is clearly magic!"
Yes, a messeger of the God is one who speaks Truth, we must first recieve the truth before we can deliver it. The people should not be suprised that the God informs those who strive with the correct understanding of things. The God is near and answers the call.
- What has given God to the messengers in ?
And if a sign comes to them they Say "We will not believe until we are given the same as what God's messengers were given!" God is fully aware where He makes His message; those criminals will have debasement with God and a painful retribution for what they had schemed.
The God gives signs(ayat), but others expect messengers to get some magical book, or some super powers to heal the blind and crippled, or some numerical miracle, etc.
- Let's assume I tell you "I am a messenger of God".
How would you react ?
I would ask the person to please relay the message they have come to relay. Its not a situation where you are to bow down to this persons feet or anything, it is a very natural occurence.
- Is it necessary to receive inspiration from God to be a messenger ?
Yes. Truth comes from the God. But its not about some deep dark voice saying "my son, this is the truth..".
- Can anyone receive inspiration from God after Muhammad ?
Yes. Brother MQ gave a decisive verse a proof.
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- Let's assume I tell you "I am a messenger of God".
How would you react ?
I would ask the person to please relay the message they have come to relay. Its not a situation where you are to bow down to this persons feet or anything, it is a very natural occurence.
And then ?
Who should you choose as a messenger, between Rashad Khalifa, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Bah?'u'll?h, all the shia imams, and mquran ?
- Is it necessary to receive inspiration from God to be a messenger ?
Yes. Truth comes from the God. But its not about some deep dark voice saying "my son, this is the truth..".
So, how can I be sure I am receiving inspiration from God ?
- Can anyone receive inspiration from God after Muhammad ?
Yes. Brother MQ gave a decisive verse a proof.
Say We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and
The question is who is the "we" in . Does not the "we" refer to the prophets ?
Please check the preceding verses...Peace
- Let's assume I tell you "I am a messenger of God".
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Salaam JM,
Many thanks for continuing the discussion in a civil manner. It doesn't matter at all if we disagree. Inteligence and maturity can be shown even in disagreement.
I and PB are claiming that we are messengers of God.
So, we are both able to receive revelations from God.I say that the flesh of swine is haram, and OB says it is hallal.
We both say we have got this information by inspiration from God.How would you choose between us ?
Maybe you are going to answer "the good opinion is the one who can be backed up the quran".
Hehe, you know it. Al-quraan is a book which tells you even how to read it. With Priest's discourse about the swine, it was easy to see the non-quranic assumptions he made.
But what would you do if we say you that the revelation we are getting from God supersedes all previous revelations, like the quran did for the torah and the injeel ?
Just a quick point. The 'torah' and 'gospel' (which make up the bible) isn't acknowledged by al-quraan to be relevations. I'll continue...
If you told me that your revelation supercedes al-quraan, I'd have to ask you to produce something like al-quraan. A coherent discourse to guide humanity. In fact, this has been done before. Have you heard of Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism? He claimed to have recieved revelation as well. Check out his 'book of mormonism', if you like.
Well, there have been a lot of new messengers in the story of Islam Rashad Khalifa, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Bah?'u'll?h, etc ....
They have created new sects, and this is not what God wants we do.
Just look at how the shias are divided !There's a problem with your logic, JM. I will deconstruct, if i may
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The 'story of islam' isn't quranic because Islam began with humankind not Muhammad.
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These messengers you mention left texts. RK had his footnotes but if you read even Toluislam, its miles ahead of RK , the so called messenger. Bahaullah, MGA also left texts but once again, you will find them unable to produce anything like al-quraan. They did produce some interesting tafseer though. I've learnt some good stuff from both of them.
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When you say 'new sect', a sect comes from a parent entity. I don't know your position very well, but looking at al-quraan, the parent entity of 'muslims' isnt quranically valid. These people may be 'muslims' by behaviour but certainly not by socio-cultural necessity.
many thanks again for a well-grounded discussion.
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JM Who should you choose as a messenger, between Rashad Khalifa, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Bah?'u'll?h, all the shia imams, and mquran ?
Kyle, choose me, choose me! Rashad Khalifa'll have you counting and ritualising all night! Plus you still have to go to Mecca! With me, you can go to Hajj in Philly provided you set up God's house there!
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Say We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and
The question is who is the "we" in . Does not the "we" refer to the prophets ?
Please check the preceding verses...No, the 'qul' in the verse was recited by the messenger onto the people. Therefore, believers in the message would have recited this.
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Peace be upon you,
I would ask the person to please relay the message they have come to relay. Its not a situation where you are to bow down to this persons feet or anything, it is a very natural occurence.
And then ?
Who should you choose as a messenger, between Rashad Khalifa, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Bah?'u'll?h, all the shia imams, and mquran ?
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
Yes. Truth comes from the God. But its not about some deep dark voice saying "my son, this is the truth..".
So, how can I be sure I am receiving inspiration from God ?
Excellent question!! This is the key to it all. The God explains that if there is something from "Him", that it can be VERIFIED! D So what yuo do is take the information and TEST IT! D If it is Truth, it will work everytime, if not it is not Truth.
Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and
The question is who is the "we" in . Does not the "we" refer to the prophets ?
Please check the preceding verses...The "we" is all of us.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Kyle, choose me, choose me! Rashad Khalifa'll have you counting and ritualising all night! Plus you still have to go to Mecca! With me, you can go to Hajj in Philly provided you set up God's house there!
lol
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
Agreed, and I'd like to add if i can here. These 4 guys are 'activating' thier messengers within (3/164 - min anfusihim, from thier souls). They're not neccessarily letting that part of themselves take over, thus becoming 'ar-rasool'. In order to do that, you must live according the book, teach the book and wisdom and facilitate growth.
Excellent question!! This is the key to it all. The God explains that if there is something from "Him", that it can be VERIFIED! So what yuo do is take the information and TEST IT! If it is Truth, it will work everytime, if not it is not Truth
.That's right. 'al-haqq' if we see 13/17 is that which lasts and if of benefit for humanity.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Excellent additions, especially this one..
Agreed, and I'd like to add if i can here. These 4 guys are 'activating' thier messengers within (3/164 - min anfusihim, from thier souls). They're not neccessarily letting that part of themselves take over, thus becoming 'ar-rasool'. In order to do that, you must live according the book, teach the book and wisdom and facilitate growth.
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Salaam Alleikum Everybody
I just can't resist to jump in into this discussion even I intended not to say anything about Prophethood and Messangership until I finish the whole message.
I am still in my data collection process and have only looked into Sura 3 and Sura 4 of Qur'an which clearly in agreement with what JM is saying.
That does not mean that I will stop. I will keep looking because Allah Taala make me understand 381 in a very clearly.
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),?Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him.? He said, ?Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant?? They said, ?We affirm.? He said, ?Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.?
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
To be clear, I have not give ANYONE the title of messenger, only those who speak TRUTH are messengers ONLY AT THE TIME THEY ARE GIVING TRUTH, otherwise the true messenger remains within man waiting to be uncovered.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
Take your time, there is no rush on our peaceful discussion D
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Peace be upon you,
All of us are divine, we all have the "ruh" within us. The problem is that most of us identify with the animal side of us rather than the divine side.
If someone delivers truth to us, we follow it, thats all D
Simple D
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Salaamun alaikum guys,
I just can't resist to jump in into this discussion even I intended not to say anything about Prophethood and Messangership until I finish the whole message.
I am still in my data collection process and have only looked into Sura 3 and Sura 4 of Qur'an which clearly in agreement with what JM is saying.There's no point in rushing. As Kyle said, a peaceful discussion has no rush.
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him. He said, Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant? They said, We affirm. He said, Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.This is the messenger I was mentioning before, KGB. The personality inside all of us. His personality confirms that which is with the Prophets.
I believe that al-quraan is the detailling of al-kitaab (god's system) and unless it disappears from the earth, there will no more such books.
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
Brother, its not about division of muslims but the division of humankind. The essence of humankind is one nation but differences arose between them (2/213). So we need to look towards unity of humankind itself.
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
Dude, the Quran says 'the month of ramadhan is which is SENT DOWN al-quraan...' (2/185)
This doesn't mean you're wrong with the second part. Allah inspires man with al-haqq too. He simply finds clarification from al-quraan.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
I'd use the word 'declared' as opposed to 'read' because 'iqra bismi rabbika' is more suited to be translated as 'declare in the name of ur lord'.
So anything declared is a 'quraan' (10/15 confirms this) but Al-quraan is the declaration which God authenticates as from Him. This is why even the word 'hadha'/this has after it the word 'AL-quraan' (see 10/37).
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Salaam Alleikum Kyle
I read your post very carefully understand what you are saying. I sure am not at the intelleuctal level as you are with understanding the Message. I keep praying Rab e Zidni Ilmun which is part of your signature and maybe someday I have your level of understanding until that time Kitab to me is book i.e. Qur'an and Turat, Zubur Injeel.