Does the Quran mention the Terrorists?
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Salamun alaikum Ahmad,
Welcome. That's an interesting analysis!
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Salamun alaikum Ahmad,
Welcome. That's an interesting analysis!
Alaykom Al Salam Bro
it is very interesting bro, the whole Quran is way too interesting and I enjoy discovering from it, but please bear in mind that I'm not one of those Muslims who create a silly idea then convince the self with it even if it does not stand any sense
my proposition stands a lot of sense, and it was also strange the way i discovered it, I was invloved in a heated debate with a few enemy of Islam on another board, their argument was that sura no 2 "Al Baqara" is a violent one and encourages hatred and violence against the non believers, I challeneged them that I read the sura over 15 yimes and there is no such thing rather an encouragement to defend our faith against the pepetrators, when they insisted on their lies, I suggested that I will post the whole 286 verses and they have to show me where the Quran encourage hosility agaiinst other peaceful humans, so I started reading the sura again and as I read the first 20 verses it stroke me hard bro as I was one of those who thought it was talking about the hypocrites as all scholars suggested, but when the logical idea came around while reading I started looking for the hypocrites mentione in the Quran as the Quran uses the word about 28 times, so please tell me bro, why the word was not used in those 13 verses while it suppose to be talking about the hypocrites?
what other clear word you can describe a hypocrite other than a hypocrite?
how a hypocrite call the other believers "fools" while the hypocrite suppose to be hiding their hypocricy and befriending the believeres or at least showing that?
how the believers will call a hypocrite to believe as they believe?
stranegly enough, the hypocrite suppose to respond by "No the believers are fools and I'm the right one"
what you will find also strange that a hypocrite should know that they are hypcrites, while the quran in those 13 verses, stressed a few times that "They do not know their mischief", "they realize not their mischief", this is very consiistant with them saying "we are the ones who does things right", now that is a confused muslim terrorist for me man
I'm still researching it by looking closely at all the verses where Allah has used the word Hypocrites, this may add some light to that proposition
peace
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Salaamun alaikum,
This is my understanding of 2/6-20 as well. Anyone who creates'fasad fil ard' /mischief on the earth is an 'al-kafir'. I think this is because mischief is so against our essence as human beings that in order to cause mischief, we must actually conceal God's reality from our selves. Hence we become 'al-kafireen'.
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Salaamun alaikum,
This is my understanding of 2/6-20 as well. Anyone who creates'fasad fil ard' /mischief on the earth is an 'al-kafir'. I think this is because mischief is so against our essence as human beings that in order to cause mischief, we must actually conceal God's reality from our selves. Hence we become 'al-kafireen'.
Absolutely
in fact I said the same on other boards, that the verses 8-20 should cover anyone who claim to believe in Allah and the Last Day but commit mischief on earth, like the following crimes for example
- rape
- bag snatching
- car jacking
4)etc.....
lot's of examples for mischief, isn't satan a very clever Jinn lol
my only note mquran, that verses 6-7 are talking about different people to verses 8-20, so you should not combine them under one category
but do you agree that the terrorists who say they believe in Allah and the Last Day and commit all these atrocities are most likely the highlight of this group of people mentioned from 28-20?
another question mate, all the scholars suggested that this group of people are the hypocrites, do you agree with that while they were never called as such "not even once", in these 13 verses?
this is very important to figure out man, because if the whole muslim world concluded this, it will shut the enemy of islam (from the west and from within the muslims) who use this propganada to lie about our great religion "directly or indirectly" to degarde it.
peace bro
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Absolutely
in fact I said the same on other boards, that the verses 8-20 should cover anyone who claim to believe in Allah and the Last Day but commit mischief on earth, like the following crimes for example
- rape
- bag snatching
- car jacking
4)etc.....
We need to check out the meaning of 'fasad' or mischief a well
http//www.toluislam.com/pub_online/exposition/glossary_e_to_h.htm#_Toc428590225my only note mquran, that verses 6-7 are talking about different people to verses 8-20, so you should not combine them under one category
Agreed. although I feel that 6-7 is a prelude to behaving like 8/20. What do you think?
but do you agree that the terrorists who say they believe in Allah and the Last Day and commit all these atrocities are most likely the highlight of this group of people mentioned from 28-20?
Considering they created the most mischief, yes. Also the 8-20 people say they believe in Allah, as opposed to many gods and/or Jesus.
another question mate, all the scholars suggested that this group of people are the hypocrites, do you agree with that while they were never called as such "not even once", in these 13 verses?
Good point. Why do you think that is?
this is very important to figure out man, because if the whole muslim world concluded this, it will shut the enemy of islam (from the west and from within the muslims) who use this propganada to lie about our great religion "directly or indirectly" to degarde it.
i've tested this complex in real life discussions before. I find'muslims' (ppl who call themselves 'muslim', really) can get pretty defensive about calling terrorists as kafireen. I think the book is direct and incisive and thats what we need.
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I think the verses are more for self reflection rather than passing judgement on others. If you take everything so literally, it means Allah has cursed the "unbelievers, hypocrites and terrorists" to stay evil, so can you still blame them for being the way they are?
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WASALAMUALAIKUM! o
Forget what I said, I made the mistake of....my only note mquran, that verses 6-7 are talking about different people to verses 8-20, so you should not combine them under one category
And concluded what I posted thereafter, then rushed to post. Its good you had point out my fallacy.
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no worries vizard
mquran, the link above didn't work
I would like to add this bit of thoughts
you see the Quran never said that the hypocrites believe in the last day
but if we look at the suicide bombers for example we see that they bloody believe hard in the last day because they simply killed themselves thinking by doing as such crime they esacped the judgment on the last day
i really can't see that a hypocrite can claim to believe in the last day by a such a powerful statement of killing the self as a sign of believing in the last day, I reckon I hypocrite will never believe in the last day even if the lied and claimed to believe
cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
The link comes from www.toluislam.com and it basically says
It basically means corruption and disorder. Fasada-Shai'an is anything which loses its original shape. Lahmun F'asidun is the meat which gets rotten, is stinking and of no use.
Fasada is, in fact, the antonym of Salaha which means in order or in balance. Therefore, Fas'ad would mean disorder or to get out of balance (Taj / Moheet / Lane). Quran has used the word Mufsideen as opposite to Musliheen (2/11). It has also been used in the meaning of causing destruction to crops and the cattle (2/205), not to maintain full measure and full weight, and not to give full due of people's sweat and labour. Fas'ad is also described as suppressing peoples' rights (7/85, 26/183), destroying a healthy, balanced system or upsetting a correct order (27/134), and committing crime (12/73). In fact, Fas'ad means to create uneven elevations and depressions in the normal level of a society or social order whatever its shape may be, as it upsets the order or harmony of a society - and people do indulge in such activities after getting intoxicated with wealth and power (7/74). Accordingly, one of the plans of a dictator or a Pharaoh is to create various factions, parties, sects and thus create disorder in the society (28/4). Contrary to this is the desired will of Allah, which is also the correct approach to life. It requires one to take away as much as one needs from the sources of nourishment and not to upset the balance of the society by taking into possession the whole lot (2/60). In verse (26/151-152), therefore, Musrifeen (the extravagant) are also called Mufsideen. In verse (28/77), Fas'ad has also been used opposite to Ihs'an.
In Surah Al-Baqarah verse 31, it is stated that at the time of the creation of Mankind, all the Malaika said that Man would create Fas'ad (disorder and chaos) in the world, whereas they are continuously busy in upholding and working according to the program given to them. This shows that working against the system given to man by Allah is Fas'ad, because by doing so, man is creating chaos in his personality and disorder in the society.
The whole universe, even the outer space having billions of galaxies and other things still unknown to mankind, is working according to a plan and in perfect harmony. This is because there is one system given by one Allah, and if there were more than one Il'ah or more than one law, there would be Fas'ad (chaos) (21/22). Human affairs on this planet can also be managed and run in a perfect harmony and order if they are subjected to One Code as given by Allah.
you see the Quran never said that the hypocrites believe in the last day
Ah, I havent studied nifaaq or hypocrisy in depth. I need to before I comment.
but if we look at the suicide bombers for example we see that they bloody believe hard in the last day because they simply killed themselves thinking by doing as such crime they esacped the judgment on the last day
i really can't see that a hypocrite can claim to believe in the last day by a such a powerful statement of killing the self as a sign of believing in the last day, I reckon I hypocrite will never believe in the last day even if the lied and claimed to believe
I take your point there, Ahmed. The thing is, I'm of the belief that imaan, specifically the imaan constituents in al-quraan gurantees good behaviour. If you see 3/84, belief in Allah and what's revealed on us leads to us being 'muslimeen', therefore precludes us from behaving like al-kafireen. Your thoughts, sir?
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Peace Ahmed,
The link comes from www.toluislam.com and it basically says
It basically means corruption and disorder. Fasada-Shai'an is anything which loses its original shape. Lahmun F'asidun is the meat which gets rotten, is stinking and of no use.
Fasada is, in fact, the antonym of Salaha which means in order or in balance. Therefore, Fas'ad would mean disorder or to get out of balance (Taj / Moheet / Lane). Quran has used the word Mufsideen as opposite to Musliheen (2/11). It has also been used in the meaning of causing destruction to crops and the cattle (2/205), not to maintain full measure and full weight, and not to give full due of people's sweat and labour. Fas'ad is also described as suppressing peoples' rights (7/85, 26/183), destroying a healthy, balanced system or upsetting a correct order (27/134), and committing crime (12/73). In fact, Fas'ad means to create uneven elevations and depressions in the normal level of a society or social order whatever its shape may be, as it upsets the order or harmony of a society - and people do indulge in such activities after getting intoxicated with wealth and power (7/74). Accordingly, one of the plans of a dictator or a Pharaoh is to create various factions, parties, sects and thus create disorder in the society (28/4). Contrary to this is the desired will of Allah, which is also the correct approach to life. It requires one to take away as much as one needs from the sources of nourishment and not to upset the balance of the society by taking into possession the whole lot (2/60). In verse (26/151-152), therefore, Musrifeen (the extravagant) are also called Mufsideen. In verse (28/77), Fas'ad has also been used opposite to Ihs'an.
In Surah Al-Baqarah verse 31, it is stated that at the time of the creation of Mankind, all the Malaika said that Man would create Fas'ad (disorder and chaos) in the world, whereas they are continuously busy in upholding and working according to the program given to them. This shows that working against the system given to man by Allah is Fas'ad, because by doing so, man is creating chaos in his personality and disorder in the society.
The whole universe, even the outer space having billions of galaxies and other things still unknown to mankind, is working according to a plan and in perfect harmony. This is because there is one system given by one Allah, and if there were more than one Il'ah or more than one law, there would be Fas'ad (chaos) (21/22). Human affairs on this planet can also be managed and run in a perfect harmony and order if they are subjected to One Code as given by Allah.
Thank you mquran
I accept the above and have no problem with it, cheers
you see the Quran never said that the hypocrites believe in the last day
Ah, I havent studied nifaaq or hypocrisy in depth. I need to before I comment.
please do, your opinion will be of a high value to me
but if we look at the suicide bombers for example we see that they bloody believe hard in the last day because they simply killed themselves thinking by doing as such crime they esacped the judgment on the last day
i really can't see that a hypocrite can claim to believe in the last day by a such a powerful statement of killing the self as a sign of believing in the last day, I reckon I hypocrite will never believe in the last day even if the lied and claimed to believe
I take your point there, Ahmed. The thing is, I'm of the belief that imaan, specifically the imaan constituents in al-quraan gurantees good behaviour.
of course bro, I agree 100%, we only have the Quran as a physical sign of our Creator trying to communicate with us to guide us in the best way suiting the requirement and the accounts that will be given in one hell of a distressful day
If you see 3/84, belief in Allah and what's revealed on us leads to us being 'muslimeen', therefore precludes us from behaving like al-kafireen. Your thoughts, sir?
thank you again mate, I use verse 3/84 a lot as an argument against the sunni brothers
can I say something unrelated man, well, I'm not a sunni, I have never been in my life, it is really strange how it came into me
i was born and raised in egypt "fully egyptian" never gave a fluke about religion up to the age of 13, at this age my arabic teacher was encouraging the belief in us, I started reading as I had already the knowledge of the prophets stories in one of the children books I had ironically written by a famous Egyptian writer named "Ahmed Bahgat", what a conicidence bro lol
man I got lost with the hadith, and ended at this early age after seeing the differnece between the shaggy words of the hadith and the mighty words of the Quran I realized the huge differnece, and since then I was a Quran alone type of guy, I do not reject the hadith rather I qualify it using the Quran, I created a new hadith science lol , simply
The Quran qualifies the hadith
the words of Allah should qualify the words of humans, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, and Sobhana Allah, since then and without any influence from any and without even knowing that there is people called Quran alone, I was sort of a Quran alone believer with a restricted allowance for the hadith that only been qualified by the Quran
I'm 40 years old now and this means I have been over 25 years studying the Quran alone and just looking at the hadith if I need a lil insight but only if qualified by the Quran, I can elaborate with examples if you wish
after gettin deep into the Quran, I was absolutely assured that my early decision was 100% right and i thank Allah greatly because it happend only from Him
back to verse 384, as I said I use this verse against the sunni brothers to expose their ignorance that the Quran warn us from making any distinction between any of the prophets and yet they elevated prophet Mohammad to a far higher level than the rest of the prophets, they actually shut up and can't answer me
i use even a stronger logic, I have to tell you this bro, because I discovered it myself and it is so easy to be discovered
you know in most sunni countries they raise the children by brain washing them with the following wrong law
We can say "Alayhe Al Salat Wa Al Salam" on Mohammad only while all the other prophets we should say "Alayhe A Salam" only, their argument that Allah ordered us to say this on Mohammad in the Quran, while I agreed with that, I showed them that The Quran refuted their claim, but that is not what I want to say, I actually refuted it with a far simpler logic
in the prayers (5 times a day) we say at "the Tashahud"
"Allahuma Sali Ala Sydena Moahammad Wa Ala Ale Sydena Mohammad, KAMA SALIAT ALA SYDENA IBRAHIM WA ALA ALE SYDENA IBRAHIM"
this was enough to confuse the hell out of them bro lol , they are still looking for an answer
Finally to give you my thoughts regarding your comment about verse 384, sure the belief will make the humans better
but the belief is different from submission man, the Quran diffrentiated between the two, submission is far higher than believing
believing is a required stage to submit, or at least submitting can not happen without believing but believing can happen without submitting
those prophets were at the highest level of sprituality and they were not just believers, they were true submitters "Muslims"
however there are many believers calling themselves muslims and yet they have not submitted fully to Allah
there is also people who say they believe in Allah and the last day and they don't really believe and they realize it not
peace be with you mquran and sorry about my typo errors, I have a severe spelling disorder