Allah is a logical entity.
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Hehe lote tree, we wrote at the same time, used the same arguments nearly.
Why do you still have to believe in it if you have LOGICAL proof?
this one is a keeper, thank you.
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You either believe scripture to be God's word or you don't.
Euclids Textbook is a very logical text! What does that prove? nothing.
A fine example of ranting before reading. Sad.
Premise 1 the Qur?an is the irrefutable word of Allah (if you have problems with this please stop reading now).
The argument seeks to build on the premise provided to form a logically sound argument for why Allah has to be a logical entity.
- I'm not here to prove Allah
Is there such thing as FALSE SCIENCE? Science is empirical. If there is no observational data then that can't be science, can it?
Look up the definition of pseudo science, like your friend, dictionary.com may help.
Why do you still have to believe in it if you have LOGICAL proof?
roll Do you believe mathematics is logical? If you do, please stop believing in it. It does not behoove you to do so.
Human capacity of thought once believed that earth was flat and was supported on a back of a giant turtle.
Perception/blind belief as opposed to reality. You can go on believing it if everything is relative to you and there is no need of empirical evidence.
Human capacity to know changes continually. There is no certainty in human knowledge. As neo says our interpretation of reality is subjective. If that is the case then we will never know perhaps what objective reality is.
Neo says a whole lot more...this is yet another fine example of capacity for comprehension and logical thought. roll
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hmmm....I have seen that before, that's right. From where the Qur'aan authors stole it
Oh thats what it is, it sounded familiar...you are in fine company with Lotetree, Apple Pie and Albion. Do us a favour, create yet another thread for 'the quran is just a copy, stolen from previous copies, and does God exist and is the quran the word of God'...It does not belong in this here thread.
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Wisdom includes a recognition of what cannot be known - Goethe
oh this is ironic! lol
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oh this is ironic!
Very, considering the fact that it's coming from you...the understanding of the phrase would be as 'logical' as your posts in this thread.
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Oh thats what it is, it sounded familiar...you are in fine company with Lotetree, Apple Pie and Albion. Do us a favour, create yet another thread for 'the quran is just a copy, stolen from previous copies, and does God exist and is the quran the word of God'...It does not belong in this here thread.
The Qur'an is altso the words of God. Those can be found in many places. In fact for those who wants to know, the message can be found by looking at how the camels are created, and how the sky is raised etc.
You like logic, right? Please tell me why God didn't just preserve his scripture to begin with. Then we wouldn't have 200 different "the real/right relegion" fighting about whom is real about it and who isn't.
Where is the logic in that?
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Very, considering the fact that it's coming from you...the understanding of the phrase would be as 'logical' as your posts in this thread.
Ouch fiesty!!. Getting worked up now are we? lol
On one hand you smack me around for seeking the unseen knowledge, on the other you use a quote with my excact viewpoint. -
There is reality. And i can observe that it is in perfect harmony and balance. I have never seen anything happen by itself (thus neo's something out of nothing challenge, he observed it too) so this perfectly tuned machinery must have had a designer that was equally impressive. That's why I belive in, and trust God.
But Mel this is the age old ontological argument for existence of God? They no longer work because we can't get outside of the system to know it for sure. I believe in a GOD but I don't think LOGIC can help us in understanding GOD because God lies beyond LANGUAGE and REASON. The Universe may hint at a designer but we can't use LOGIC to prove the existence of the designer itself....
That is why i think God is a logical entity.
But Mel, Entity implies God is another separate being who is bigger and more powerful?
But Prophets, Sages, Seers and Meditators and Mystics they never had a logical encounter with the Divine. They have all encountered "God" in a meditative trance. So God has always been a subjective experience of the individual and therefore God is not a separate being but rather God is bound up with all that exists.
But fact is. I dont know, all I know is that whatever God is. It is great at creating stuff.
I am in agreement here. I can't never be certain of anything....
Regards,
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hmmm....I have seen that before, that's right. From where the Qur'aan authors stole it
Oh thats what it is, it sounded familiar...you are in fine company with Lotetree, Apple Pie and Albion. Do us a favour, create yet another thread for 'the quran is just a copy, stolen from previous copies, and does God exist and is the quran the word of God'...It does not belong in this here thread.
Please not in this vain!!!! You always do that why? Why this insecurity?
Can't you have a discussion without attacking people personally?I am nothing like Apple Pie and Albion! But I do question scripture, all scriptures in fact. You don't thats ok. But please don't assume that others should stop questioning...
Regards,
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we find ourself in agrement on many things Lote Tree.
I have no idea in the world what God is. But I enjoy the illusion that God creates. Entity, not enity I dont know and it's none of my business what God is or isn't. Merely guessing will make none of us come closer to the answer. I will wait and see, and untill then I am going to enjoy life and try to be the best that I can be with the tools handed to me.I have felt God so many times, so powerful it knocked me over. I have tried several times that my soul left my body so I could view the world in all 3 dimensions at once. Even travel space at a blazing speed.
I dont need a book, o rather i prefer to study more than just one. The bible, Torah, and the Sanskrit is a really good read too. I know that God is. What I dont know is what God is. -
Neo says a whole lot more...this is yet another fine example of capacity for comprehension and logical thought. roll
Are you a spokesperson for neo Savage Carrot?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too! -)
Its strange....Regards,
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On one hand you smack me around for seeking the unseen knowledge, on the other you use a quote with my excact viewpoint.
Eh? Is this your brilliant understanding of the phrase and your viewpoint? /
The Qur'an is altso the words of God. Those can be found in many places. In fact for those who wants to know, the message can be found by looking at how the camels are created, and how the sky is raised etc.
By your quotes in your posts, you too may like to jump from 'a' truth and the absolute truth like your pal, Lotetree...so which is it? To clarify once and for all? Is the quran the irrefutable word of God? Is it the absolute truth? Or is it 'a' truth whatever that means, which you will have to explain if you share the same viewpoint.
You like logic, right? Please tell me why God didn't just preserve his scripture to begin with. Then we wouldn't have 200 different "the real/right relegion" fighting about whom is real about it and who isn't. Where is the logic in that?
As Lotetree has proven, he hasn't really read the quran. I hope that's not the case with you. Let me cite some verses that may help jumpstart your thought processes...
548 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
More verses to look at would be 4213, 2106, 2136, 16101, 1094 if you interested in and around the same subject.
Logic starts with a premise, which regarding this subject and many others are given in the quran. I hope that you can take it from here, we all know you are a 'degree' holder in a 'logical' field.
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I am nothing like Apple Pie and Albion! But I do question scripture, all scriptures in fact. You don't thats ok. But please don't assume that others should stop questioning...
According to your many quotes in different threads, you have many a time said just what they were saying...e.g, quran is a copy...I have no qualms with what you believe, I couldn't care less. It is however highly annoying when given a threads premise, which you do not read, you still jump in with off topic rants.
Are you a spokesperson for neo Savage Carrot?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too!
Its strange....Are you a spokesperson for mel funktion Lote Tree?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too!
It's strange...
I don't see neo around, do you?!? Of course...its all relative to you, doesn't matter what empirical evidence says.
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I am nothing like Apple Pie and Albion! But I do question scripture, all scriptures in fact. You don't thats ok. But please don't assume that others should stop questioning...
According to your many quotes in different threads, you have many a time said just what they were saying...e.g, quran is a copy...I have no qualms with what you believe, I couldn't care less. It is however highly annoying when given a threads premise, which you do not read, you still jump in with off topic rants.
This is a lie and you know it. I can't believe that you stoop so low!!!! why such insecurity? I am dissapointed with you!!! Quran is a human reading like others that is most I said!!!
Are you a spokesperson for neo Savage Carrot?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too!
Its strange....Are you a spokesperson for mel funktion Lote Tree?
SC why are you using my words ?
It's like listening to an echo!!!I don't see neo around, do you?!? Of course...its all relative to you, doesn't matter what empirical evidence says.
I got you again haven't I? -)
I can see the blush on you!!!
But feel free to speak on neo's behalf. Is neo a "relative" of yours?Regards,
Regards,
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This is a lie and you know it.
I can't waste my time speaking with hypocritical bs'ers.
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Eh? Is this your brilliant understanding of the phrase and your viewpoint? /
You do realise that by telling me that you have a different understanding of it, you are partly confirming my subjectivity thesis?.
By your quotes in your posts, you too may like to jump from 'a' truth and the absolute truth like your pal, Lotetree
Man you're into labeling people. I have never met Lote Tree so how can he be my pal? Because we have mutual viewpoints?
And I never speak of THE truth, because that would be reserved for the creator....so which is it? To clarify once and for all? Is the quran the irrefutable word of God?
No. The world is. As stated in all 3 semitic books.
Is it the absolute truth? Or is it 'a' truth whatever that means, which you will have to explain if you share the same viewpoint.
the absolute truth would be with God. A truth is something that we can comprehend. e.g It is "a" truth that the church of rome is based mainly on worship of the sun. It is not "the" truth, because many people still manage to use their writ to become better people.
As Lotetree has proven, he hasn't really read the quran. I hope that's not the case with you. Let me cite some verses that may help jumpstart your thought processes...
Yeah I have read it, and I still do with much pleasure.
548 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it.
what is present of the scripture. So God did not manage to preserve it's own scriptures and need not only to repeat itself, but even superseed it. perhaps God didn't get it right the first time ?
So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
beutyful absolutely. We made you all different tribes, but we regret doing so. So instead of all the laws we made to each and every one of you. We now want you to become one nation instead, though we stated we didn't want to in the first place. But wait...God never change his words
More verses to look at would be 4213, 2106, 2136, 16101, 1094 if you interested in and around the same subject.
Thank you, and I mean that. I still want to learn whatever I can from as many sources as possible regarding this. Do understand what I am doing. I am not speaking against God. Nor the Qur'aan. Rather I am trying to point out that God does not protect paper, God protect his message. This can be confirmed by mere observation of people. There has always been good faithfull people on earth, even in places where evil seemed to triumph. Why is that, if the real message it is not something that anyone can "tap" into making the book's merely a guide to do so. This does not mean they are free of corruption, but that whoever read it with an honest heart will understand the point. And to me the basic point is outlined in verses like 6152-152
Logic starts with a premise, which regarding this subject and many others are given in the quran. I hope that you can take it from here, we all know you are a 'degree' holder in a 'logical' field.
No need to be snide. I stand by offering evidence to you on demand. Yes logic does start with a premise, and to me that premise is God, not paper.
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This is a lie and you know it.
I can't waste my time speaking with hypocritical bs'ers.
Perhaps you are one of them?
Regards,
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By your quotes in your posts, you too may like to jump from 'a' truth and the absolute truth like your pal, Lotetree
Man you're into labeling people. I have never met Lote Tree so how can he be my pal? Because we have mutual viewpoints?
And I never speak of THE truth, because that would be reserved for the creator.Why such insecurity Savage Carrot? You always attack people like this. Is that limit of your intelligence? Do I undermine your cherished belief in a scripture that came through a human being, is that why you find me a threat?
...so which is it? To clarify once and for all? Is the quran the irrefutable word of God?
No. The world is. As stated in all 3 semitic books.
Savage Carrot, this is the thing you need to understand. Abandon tribal thinking and see World as Gods irrefuable revelation for ALL MANKIND!
As Lotetree has proven, he hasn't really read the quran. I hope that's not the case with you. Let me cite some verses that may help jumpstart your thought processes...
Oh please stop! You always do this! Do you know where the words "Lote Tree" comes from? See surah 53, verse 14. It's a Symbolic Tree that represents the limits to all our rational thought. So please stop this nonsense of attacking people like this.
Regards,
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You do realise that by telling me that you have a different understanding of it, you are partly confirming my subjectivity thesis?.
When have I ever said perceptions are not subjective? You do realise what we have been talking about the past five pages?
Man you're into labeling people. I have never met Lote Tree so how can he be my pal? Because we have mutual viewpoints?
And I never speak of THE truth, because that would be reserved for the creator.The quran is called al haqq as well.
No.
Then we are wasting time on this thread with a specific premise. I wish you would have brought it up sooner.
Yeah I have read it, and I still do with much pleasure.
I'm glad to hear it.
what is present of the scripture. So God did not manage to preserve it's own scriptures and need not only to repeat itself, but even superseed it. perhaps God didn't get it right the first time ?
By reading the quran, we have signs that tell us that what we have is what the previous generations had, when a sign is replaced, it is with something better, not because God 'can't' preserve His words. It is a natural dynamic progression as opposed to a static form.
beutyful absolutely. We made you all different tribes, but we regret doing so. So instead of all the laws we made to each and every one of you. We now want you to become one nation instead, though we stated we didn't want to in the first place. But wait...God never change his words
Huh? where does the regret come in?And God doesn't change His way. It was the same for the previous generations.
Thank you, and I mean that. I still want to learn whatever I can from as many sources as possible regarding this. Do understand what I am doing. I am not speaking against God. Nor the Qur'aan. Rather I am trying to point out that God does not protect paper, God protect his message. This can be confirmed by mere observation of people. There has always been good faithfull people on earth, even in places where evil seemed to triumph. Why is that, if the real message it is not something that anyone can "tap" into making the book's merely a guide to do so. This does not mean they are free of corruption, but that whoever read it with an honest heart will understand the point. And to me the basic point is outlined in verses like 6152-152
I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for sharing. Once again, it would have saved us all a lot of time if the premise was read first.
No need to be snide. I stand by offering evidence to you on demand. Yes logic does start with a premise, and to me that premise is God, not paper.
But it's okay for you to label others fiesty snidely? No matter. Thank you for your post. I hope you can start a new thread for this as it does not belong here. Many would give their thoughts on it and it would be a worthwhile endeavour. Peace.
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Why such insecurity Savage Carrot? You always attack people like this. Is that limit of your intelligence? Do I undermine your cherished belief in a scripture that came through a human being, is that why you find me a threat?
Savage Carrot, this is the thing you need to understand. Abandon tribal thinking and see World as Gods irrefuable revelation for ALL MANKIND!
Oh please stop! You always do this! Do you know where the words "Lote Tree" comes from? See surah 53, verse 14. It's a Symbolic Tree that represents the limits to all our rational thought. So please stop this nonsense of attacking people like this.He's gone stark raving mad! Is it a full moon by any chance?!?