Death of a Christian
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SaLaM Idolfree
But brother, Doesnt God says dont take any other partner with me? Was mother teresa christian? i think yes. She was a nun wasnt she? damn i read a whole story on her in my 5th grade. But do you think she will be in God's good graces after all the kind work she did and then she goes and prays to jesus?
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
Again, I am working this through my mind as well, but my thoughts stem from the verse that says that no matter what you call yourself, if you trust in the One God , the ending time, and live righteously, you will be rewarded.
Names mean nothing, its about what you do.
It is my understanding that she devoted her life to helping ANYONE (please correct me if I am wrong).
Her praying to"jesus" might really be her praying to the ONE, but in her mind she has it defined as "jesus".
I think though its how this praying manifested. To MANY christians, thier praying to jesus causes them to treat others wrongly, like bombing "muslim" countries, enslaving Africans, "exterminating" jews, etc.
But this is not the same for Mother Theresa. It manifested in a WHOLEISTIC (ONENESS) way, not SEGRATIVE way.
I think it is when you seperate the whole that you take partners, WHOLEISTIC is Godly.
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SaLaM Idolfree
Ok brother i dont want you think that im trying push something on you.
I agree that names do not matter. For exmple in Quran , even tho its not a name, but God is referred to as Allah. In torah it is Yahweh. Infact jews consider it to be so sacred that they dont pronounce this name. But with christians, they know who Jesus was. Hence they are christians lol. Christians know who 'God' is and who 'Jesus' is. It falls under shirk. But the people im talking about, they admit that its not 'jesus' they are taking as God. but rather 'God' Himself. I hope you understand.
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Salaamun alaikum Kyle,
Her praying to"jesus" might really be her praying to the ONE, but in her mind she has it defined as "jesus".
I think though its how this praying manifested. To MANY christians, thier praying to jesus causes them to treat others wrongly, like bombing "muslim" countries, enslaving Africans, "exterminating" jews, etc.
But this is not the same for Mother Theresa. It manifested in a WHOLEISTIC (ONENESS) way, not SEGRATIVE way.
I think it is when you seperate the whole that you take partners, WHOLEISTIC is Godly.
While I take your point here Kyle, I think the 'might' in your statement is the operative term. This is because some Indian groups have accused the Mother Theresa mythologisation of being used to convert hindus and thus give the Roman Catholics more power in india. We simply cannot know who she was worshipping because we cant see into her heart.
Having said that, I know Christians who pray to God and just havent dealt with the theological issues. Normal ppl generally don't
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Salaam all,
I think we shall not play God and judge other people for their faith and how can we know what's in their heart anyway.
If people do good deeds then they will be rewarded of God and remember God look to the whole when judging people.
So our lives are like open books with alot of notes and remarks i suppose because no one is perfect.
Peace Sis Maria
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^^WOW ZENJE shock
Those verses just hit me like whoa like a new revelation man. What surah is it brother??
Those are deep verse by the Almighty. I can just visualise them happening shock shock
I'm glad I'm free from associating The Almighty with anyone or anything. I think believing in One God is a natural instinct we all have within us like we know what is good and bad i.e killing innocent people. With that said one can still attain paradise without the Quran in their life or even hearing of what the Quran is.
PEACE
Peace 2pac and Zenje,
That verse always sticks out in my mind. Particularly since I began my path under Christian theology. Another verse I pay attention to is
520 Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on Earth!" And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things.
521 And the Jews and the Nazarenes said "We are God's children, and His loved ones." Say "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" No, you are merely humans from what He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.I am of the school that thinks "the rejectors (al kafireen)" is a description of a people that oppose/reject/go in opposite direction of God's signs and SJD (hearing and obeying). In other words, a rejector is just not someone who does not believe in God and the last day, but who choose to reject/oppose/go in opposite direction a straight path in behavior and desire. For me, the fact that rejectors are those, indeed, who say God is the Messiah, Son of Mary takes on a whole new meaning that incorporates both the historical and current socioeconomical behavior of those who bare the Christian religion.
The entire idea of the God being Jesus came from scriptures written by the Greeks. The Greeks were, also, the supposed inventors of democrazy. (debatable by some, most definitely). These invented systems are the foundation behind Western influence and-eventually-capitalism. Christian missionary work was a primary catalist for spreading capitalism/democrazy throughout the world. And we all know how unbalanced capitalism has made economic markets globally. Undoubtedly, there have been benefits for some. But with all the benefits that capitalism brings, is the unbalance and exploitation of it all enough to say that it is a system of "rejection"? All this is to say that, once you begin thinking conjecture is absolute truth, it is easy for people to continue walking down a path of rejection...with one invented system after another. Talk about misguidance...
Things that make you go, hmmm. idea
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Peace be upon you MQ,
While I take your point here Kyle, I think the 'might' in your statement is the operative term. This is because some Indian groups have accused the Mother Theresa mythologisation of being used to convert hindus and thus give the Roman Catholics more power in india. We simply cannot know who she was worshipping because we cant see into her heart.
Having said that, I know Christians who pray to God and just havent dealt with the theological issues. Normal ppl generally don't
I agree with your statements.
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Peace idolfree, mquran,
We simply cannot know who she was worshipping because we cant see into her heart.
The Catholic doctrine stresses the One God. It's essential part of their belief, the first. They pray to Mary and to saints but they don't worship them but God, and God is One for them. That's the doctrine.
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520 Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on Earth!" And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things.
521 And the Jews and the Nazarenes said "We are God's children, and His loved ones." Say "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" No, you are merely humans from what He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.Damn I know I have read these verses before but its like they're brand new and fresh when I read the verse you quoted...so strong and powerful man especially the part God says if he wanted to He could destroy everyone on Earth shock cry
PEACE
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Salaamun alaikum Elena,
The Catholic doctrine stresses the One God. It's essential part of their belief, the first. They pray to Mary and to saints but they don't worship them but God, and God is One for them. That's the doctrine.
If al-haqq comes to them that God is one and they reject it, im afraid the quran counts them as kafirs.
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Peace mquarn
Salaamun alaikum Elena,
The Catholic doctrine stresses the One God. It's essential part of their belief, the first. They pray to Mary and to saints but they don't worship them but God, and God is One for them. That's the doctrine.
If al-haqq comes to them that God is one and they reject it, im afraid the quran counts them as kafirs.
no no, they don't reject that God is One, it is profoundly impressed in their mind, it is the first.
The trinity concept, the son of God concept coexist with it. It is not a contradiction for them.
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Peace Elena,
no no, they don't reject that God is One, it is profoundly impressed in their mind, it is the first.
The trinity concept, the son of God concept coexist with it. It is not a contradiction for them.
Well, thats what im saying. If the truth comes to them AND they reject it. I can't tell you if thats happened or not, its in thier hearts.
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Peace mquran,
Peace Elena,
no no, they don't reject that God is One, it is profoundly impressed in their mind, it is the first.
The trinity concept, the son of God concept coexist with it. It is not a contradiction for them.
Well, thats what im saying. If the truth comes to them AND they reject it. I can't tell you if thats happened or not, its in thier hearts.
but how could one reject the truth if it came to oneself? It is impossible. If you consider x is the truth, you are considering it is the truth, not rejecting. I am not talking about Catholics now, but in general.
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but how could one reject the truth if it came to oneself? It is impossible. If you consider x is the truth, you are considering it is the truth, not rejecting. I am not talking about Catholics now, but in general.
Oh, im speaking of the truth in the absolute sense. If 'AL-haqq', not 'haqq'. The 'al' particle there makes it absolute. So when the absolute truth comes to them and thier own inhibitions prevent them from accepting it, they are kafir.
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but how could one reject the truth if it came to oneself? It is impossible. If you consider x is the truth, you are considering it is the truth, not rejecting. I am not talking about Catholics now, but in general.
Oh, im speaking of the truth in the absolute sense. If 'AL-haqq', not 'haqq'. The 'al' particle there makes it absolute. So when the absolute truth comes to them and thier own inhibitions prevent them from accepting it, they are kafir.
say it with examples because you are speaking obscure, if you want me to get you, if not, it is ok but let me know so that I don't waste your time and mine.
what are they rejecting, what inhibitions are you talking about and why they are 'preventing' them from accept what
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Sure.
Absolute truth The truth as reality. Al-quraan is the describer of this ultimate truth.
This truth comes to all people.
When it comes to them, they either accept it or reject it.
Some people, realising the implication of this truth (that is, you need to submit to it) reject it. When they do this, they are taking other gods besides The God.
They are then , kafir.
hopes thats clear enough.
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Peace,
I can't believe that I used infinitive after a preposition. I meant "from accepting"
Clearer, but still obscure because you forget the book Quran is not part of their belief.
The other thing you call quran, the universe/everything, can't be ignored by anybody, but you were referring to the book, weren't you?
From the beginning I am talking about how is the Catholic belief, where I 'was' for years, not about my personal convictions.
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Peace to you Elena,
can't believe that I used infinitive after a preposition. I meant "from accepting"
I have no idea what that means, hehe.
Clearer, but still obscure because you forget the book Quran is not part of their belief
.I didn't. Al-quraan is just how we clarify things. The truth comes to them in a nonverbal inspiration.
The other thing you call quran, the universe/everything, can't be ignored by anybody, but you were referring to the book, weren't you?
No, 'al-kitaab' are god's functional laws in the universe. You can ignore it, but it will get you in the end. That's just how it works.
From the beginning I am talking about how is the Catholic belief, where I 'was' for years, not about my personal convictions.
Oh ok.
