Quran & Democracy: Are they compatible? by M. Asadi
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SaLaM KGB
See now you would think that maybe i care what you have to say about me. But really, i dont. D If that is what you think of me, then ok. Wrong, but ok... whatever makes you sleep better at night rotfl . Now, if your done, will you plz stop going off topic since me and LT have been at this for past 2 pages and i think im finally getting through to him. Right LT wink
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SaLaM KGB
Brother I feel sorry for you.
Yes well... life is unfair. Not much you can do expect from feeling sorry. Believe me.
*Back to LT
So LT, i hope in your next reply, you can tell me EXACTLY what the purpose of the DIVINE IMMUTABLE DIVINE law is? .... old chap wink
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SaLaM LT and KGB
Lashes for adultery for example - Thats a IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW. You can't change that! But in your case you can just ignore the quran.
And out of everything, THAT is what the word of God is for? lashing? Comon LT you can do much better than that! looooolll you are loosing your touch, old chap wink
Jaxal do you not get this at all? IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW can't be changed like lashing for adultery for example. In a DEMOCRACY laws can be changed...and I have said this so many times, I am hearing my own echo!!! Perhaps you need to digest that mountain of KFC you have eaten before you get a handle on this wink
Regards,
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SaLaM LT
LT, you really are losing it. wink . What you need to get a handle on is that NO ONE is arguing that the DIVINE IMMUTABLE DIVINE law be changed in any way, shape or form. NOT A SINGLE SOUL on this thread is arguing that. So i dont know why you are bringing this up. On the other hand, i am asking you WHAT IS THIS DIVINE IMMUTABLE DIVINE law FOR?. is the question THAT vague? Since im SUCH A NICE GUY, i will go ahead and break the question further.
DOES THIS DIVINE IMMUTABLE DIVINE law HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE RUNNING OF A COUNTRY?. There, i hope that is clear for you ... old chap wink
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Salaam
I am not sure where the discussion is going, we seem to have moved from consultative body to lashes to prove that Quran is antidemocratic.
I dont know of any democracy where people choose every individual policy. Let us assume in a given democratic country, a group of muslims form a Quran Party. One of the Quran partys policy, amongst many other, is that adultery is illegal and punishable by 100 lashes. If the people of that country decide that they want to select this party to govern them can anyone explain how this undemocratic. If they decide they do not want the Quran party there will be no lashes. However this does not stop people from obeying the Quran , if they still wish, they simply do not have to commit adultery.
Lashes issue is neither democratic or anti for that matter. Just another red herring for those who have failed to provide any reference from the Quran to prove their point that the quran is somehow against democracy.
regards -
DOES THIS DIVINE IMMUTABLE DIVINE law HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE RUNNING OF A COUNTRY?. There, i hope that is clear for you ... old chap
Keep religion and state seperate is Christianity idea. Do you believe that we should have a vatican type of Authority to control Muslim. I am sure you will come up with more BS instead of giving simple and plain reply.
Democracy is the system of oppression created by Elite Rich and Powerful to protect their financial insterests.
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land. Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state. Consitution is very easy to write according to what we have according to the message.
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Salaamun alaikum,
I am not sure where the discussion is going, we seem to have moved from consultative body to lashes to prove that Quran is antidemocratic
The problem right now lies in the underlying assumptions we're making in our discussions. Let me tell you mine
I'm assuming we're speaking of a polity where the leader is the messenger of god. The messenger needs to acquire agreement from no one. He legislates according to God's laws.
Do you agree to this? If you do, then the quran is anti-democratic because the messenger rules according to the Quran.
dont know of any democracy where people choose every individual policy. Let us assume in a given democratic country, a group of muslims form a Quran Party. One of the Quran partys policy, amongst many other, is that adultery is illegal and punishable by 100 lashes. If the people of that country decide that they want to select this party to govern them can anyone explain how this undemocratic. If they decide they do not want the Quran party there will be no lashes. However this does not stop people from obeying the Quran , if they still wish, they simply do not have to commit adultery
Ok, now the crunch. Can you show this process from al-quraan please? This is still our criteria, isnt it ?
peace.
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SaLaM KGB
Keep religion and state seperate is Christianity idea.
Well so far the muslim idea of running the country by the Quran hasnt worked. To prove me wrong, name me 2 muslime countries that have got it right.
Democracy is the system of oppression created by Elite Rich and Powerful to protect their financial insterests.
That is the stupidest thing ive heard. Well no, i have heard mquran say much more stupid things. Look up what democracy is. Dont pull the meaning out of your rear end. Infact, i have already done it. Its on this thread somewhere, find it.
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.
Stillearning has been asking this question. Why dont you be a good little boy and answer him exactly how easy it is to run a country using the laws given in the Quran?
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state. Consitution is very easy to write according to what we have according to the message.
Seems like you have figured it out. Why dont you humble us and tell us EXACTLY how we will do that?
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Salaam Jaxal
The Qur'an Laws cannot be implemented until majority of Sunnis and Shias accept that their hadiths books can override the words of Allah Taala. There is no country laws are build on laws of Qur'an does not mean that the system given in Qur'an can't be implemented.
Edited.
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SaLaM KGB
The Qur'an Laws cannot be implemented until majority of Sunnis and Shias accept that their hadiths books can override the words of Allah Taala. There is no country laws are build on laws of Qur'an does not mean that the system given in Qur'an can't be implemented.
You are repeating yourself. I already know this. Im asking you, HOW will a country be run under a Quranic system? You said
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state. Consitution is very easy to write according to what we have according to the message.
Ok.. Go ahead. Me and stillearning have been waiting for someone to come up with an answer to that exact question. You seem to know it, so why dont you tell us? unless ofcourse you get shy or tounge tied.
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.
And in conjunction with how we will select a head of state and write constitution, also explain how laws will be implemented.
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Salaamun alaikum KGB,
The Qur'an Laws cannot be implemented until majority of Sunnis and Shias accept that their hadiths books can override the words of Allah Taala. There is no country laws are build on laws of Qur'an does not mean that the system given in Qur'an can't be implemented.
Correct KGB. Well said.
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Salaam
Quote
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.Stillearning has been asking this question. Why dont you be a good little boy and answer him exactly how easy it is to run a country using the laws given in the Quran?
Quote
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state. Consitution is very easy to write according to what we have according to the message.Seems like you have figured it out. Why dont you humble us and tell us EXACTLY how we will do that?
I was beginning to question my own sanity. Thank you I think that summarises it neatly.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Thank you.
Jaxal I already give you the reply. You don't read.
The social system given in Qur'an and the Laws are very simple to implement. There is no complication the problem is at present time majority of people are Sunnis and Shias who believe in the Sharia which is based on hearsay. Sunnis have four different Sharia and Shias may have more than one Sharia Laws.
Again repeating myself. We can't implement the Qur'an Laws until majority of Sunnis Shias accept that Qur'an Laws cannot be superceeded by man written books.
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SaLaM LT
If i ask you to run a country, will you look at the Quran for a 'How to' ?
Oh Jaxal you don't seem to get it do you? Quran is IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW like lashing for adultery. This law can't be changed by humans! Do you not see this? But in DEMOCRACY laws can be changed.
What is that you want to do? Ignore IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW? or are you saying that THESE LAWS ARE NOT IMMUTABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE? If this is the case then quran is irrelvant to how we govern our societies and make laws since it can have no effect in this process...
Regards,
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SaLaM LT and KGB
Jaxal I already give you the reply. You don't read.
No KGB, so far you have just said that its easy to do this and its easy to do that and how we can do this and how we can do that. Im asking you HOW will it be done. NOT HOW EASYILY OR IF it can be done.
Oh Jaxal you don't seem to get it do you? Quran is IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW like lashing for adultery. This law can't be changed by humans! Do you not see this? But in DEMOCRACY laws can be changed.
What is that you want to do? Ignore IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW? or are you saying that THESE LAWS ARE NOT IMMUTABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE? If this is the case then quran is irrelvant to how we govern our societies and make laws since it can have no effect in this process...
Even the Quran says not to push your religion on others. And you want to push the punishment of Quran on another? Comon LT. Where is the sense in that? But that is not in question here. Im asking you a simple question
If i ask you to run a country, will you look at the Quran for a 'How to' ?
That shouldnt be so hard to answer ... should it? old chap?
wink
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If i ask you to run a country, will you look at the Quran for a 'How to' ?
This question is irellevant if you ignore quran as IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW isn't it?
Regards,
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Thank you.
Jaxal I already give you the reply. You don't read.
The social system given in Qur'an and the Laws are very simple to implement. There is no complication the problem is at present time majority of people are Sunnis and Shias who believe in the Sharia which is based on hearsay. Sunnis have four different Sharia and Shias may have more than one Sharia Laws.
Again repeating myself. We can't implement the Qur'an Laws until majority of Sunnis Shias accept that Qur'an Laws cannot be superceeded by man written books.
What you don't understand?
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SaLaM LT and KGB
LT, it is JUST a question. Answer it if you can.
If i ask you to run a country, will you look at the Quran for a 'How to' ?
KGB, you sound like mquran when he is out of breath after a long humiliating argument. That is ok. I will break it down for you so that YOU can understand.
The social system given in Qur'an and the Laws are very simple to implement.
If they are SO easy, tell us how it will be done.
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state. Consitution is very easy to write according to what we have according to the message.
And how EXACTLY will we do this looking at the Quran?
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.
HOW will we implement these laws.
You seem to have figured it out. Me and stillearning have been waiting for this. So take your time in posting the theory, method and implementation. No rush.