Why other prophets never came to kaaba?
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Salam agent and welcome,
About Alhajj, I like the understanding given by brother Ayman
My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disadvantaged.
Thus, I think that the concept of "7ajj" has nothing to do with any religious challenge no more than it has to do with a holy pilgrimage. It is an entirely secular concept.
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The Ka'ba is an interesting issue...my take on it had pretty much being that I wouldn't make any judgement until I had more evidence on either side. However, I'd like to make a few points
- Nowhere in the Quran does it say that the Ka'ba is the ONLY house made for God, so maybe other prophets visited Jerusalem b/c there was another house of worship there. In fact, the Bible records several houses built for worship of God. Also, if very early Muslims started praying towards Jerusalem at first, then there was probably another house over there to direct prayers to.
- There is no evidence that Abraham did not go to Mecca or what used to be Mecca. In fact, there is evidence that he travelled quite a bit. I remember reading that he went to Egypt in his lifetime.
- The Ka'ba was most likely a center of worship before Muhammad. See http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html. If Ptolemy really did reference the city and state that it was built around a sanctuary, then it was recognized as such long before Muhammad came.
- The Quran speaks to a particular group of people who must have understood what it meant. Allah would not have said, "visit the ancient house" unless they knew what the ancient house was. It is also apparent that they thought it was the present ka'bah since early masjids faced the ka'bah.
- Even if the Quran says that the Arabs had never been given a prophet, Abrham could still have visited Mecca. Before Ishmael there were no Arabs, so there were no Arabs to preach to when Abraham went there.
- I have read a few articles on why Mecca cannot be the city mentioned since Mecca was barren...but Medina was not and the Prophet lived in both places. So, when the Quran talks about date palms, and other crops, it could very well be talking about Medina.
So, I am leaning towards the Ka'bah being the ancient house if there is one. It seems to me that early Muslims regarded it as such, and so did the Prophet....now as for the black stone, that is another issue!
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Salaamun alaikum,
If we're honest with ourselves, how much of our information comes from al-quraan? In my view, for this discourse, very very little.
AgentX, let me ask you, no offense intended is al-quraan your only source of information? If you want to move into the realm of history and hadith, there are great fairy tales waiting. I'll show you what I mean, ok.
"Kaba" the house of Allah was built by Adam and then by Abraham. what make me wonder is why the prophets never tried to come to the house of Allah the most sacred place on earth.
Adam? Where'd you get the Adam information?
Ibrahim ? The only way you think he was at mecca's kaaba is if you believe in hadith.
Why the immidiate decendends of Abraham isaac, Jacob,
Joseph etc never thought of coming to the house of Allah? Did Abraham or God forgot to mention kaba to them?Once again, how do you know they never went there? Once again, you must have looked at history.
Moses wandered in the wilderness along with his followers for 40 years in search for the promised land but never mentions kaba or tries to come to Mecca. solomon and david were kings, what prevented them from coming to mecca to visit the house of Lord?
Moses didn't wander for 40 years at all, if you look at al-quraan, Agentx.
David and Solomon didn't go to mecca only if you read the bible.
ch 2847
And you were not present on side of the mount when we called to Moses. all these revelations are the mercy of your Lord, so that you may warn the people TO WHOME NO PROPHET CAME BEFORE YOU, and they may take heed.This has made me more confused, this verse say no prophet came to warn them before Muhammad?
Why confine the verse to history ? Is the verse no longer applicable now?
what about Abraham and Ismael, were they not prophets when they built Kaba? did they not warn the people? did they forgot to tell the people the reason for the constuction of kaba?
That's beyond the relevance of the message.
why the Muslims were initially commanded to perform salat facing "qibla awal" and then years after hijrat they were commanded by God to turn towards kaba? did Allah not informed our prophet from the first day about his house?
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as-salaat has no link with the qibla concept
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qibla awal doesnt refer to jerusalem
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this passage is applicable even now.
Why did God send birds with stones to defend kaba and then send rain and flood water to destroy its walls after couple of decades?
Sura 105 has no mention of kaaba at all. Once again, you're relying on history.
This is why im asking you at the outset. What are your sources of information ? Do you want to build a quranic picture? If you prefer to be comforted by the pictures of history, I humbly suggest to you, its best to background al-quraan because it will never answer the questions you have above. No offense AgentX, just being upfront. Peace.
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salam friends,
Thankyou for you advice elke, I will check them.
jaxal its not just about the pilgrimage to kaba only, none of them even mentioned it, being the most sacred place on earth, they should have known.swedenm maybe your are right ? history is always written by the winners, and Arab history is no exception.
thanks everyone.
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SaLaM agentxxx
In the quran it says, those who can afford to make the pilgrimage, should make the pilgrimage to Kabbah. So its not a MUST that we make a pilgrimage to Kabbah. It will please God very much but God has also given a condition. Jesus wasnt a wealthy man. As far as i know, he wasnt rich. Plus, God points towards other sacred shrines/temple built as well. There is an article on the website by Layth. In the article Layth explains how the house of God can be in jerusalem. That would be according to the Quran becoz Kabbah is only one of the house of God. Have you thought about this?
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salam,
cool it guys ) if I was such a big scholar surely I would not be asking you to help me in understanding those questions?
mquran instead of explaining you have carpet boombed me with your own questions I am no supporter of hadiths and the history either and I think its alquran that tells us about kaba being built by Abraham or Ibrahim, and I believe Kaba is in Mecca wink so ibrahim came to Mecca???
ichephren please dont mention ptolemy because its history and my friend mquran does not like references from history.
you said
5. Even if the Quran says that the Arabs had never been given a prophet, Abrham could still have visited Mecca. Before Ishmael there were no Arabs, so there were no Arabs to preach to when Abraham went there.The arabs are the decendents of Ismael so it does not make any difference.
jaxal its not about pilgrimage my friend.thank you guy for explaining your point of views but unfortunately I still am confused.
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Salaamun alaikum Agentx,
mquran instead of explaining you have carpet boombed me with your own questions I am no supporter of hadiths and the history either and I think its alquran that tells us about kaba being built by Abraham or Ibrahim, and I believe Kaba is in Mecca so ibrahim came to Mecca???
Its not my intention to 'carpetbomb' you and my apologies if you felt that. I'm trying to point out how this question of yours is 'multi-pronged'. I will explain the prongs, if I may
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You're a subscriber to the fundamental ideas of Judeo-Christianity-Sunnism (JCS). JCS is essentially about this The one god sent prophets (and son of god, in christianity's case) and that's that. Those guys brought messages (and in christianity's case, sacrificed himself) and now we adhere to messages. Your question generally fits in this prong. Well, my statement to you is, you will never be able to find the answer from al-quraan because al-quraan isnt in this prong.
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You take your starting point tabula rasa, a clean fresh slate. From here, you will see that it's not about where Ibrahim was, its about where YOU are. You're responsible for recieving revelation and establishing the house. It doesn't matter where the house is, what matters is that you build it and develop your 'self' in the process. Al-quraan is detailed for those who seek this.
Btw, Kaaba is never mentioned with Ibrahim. 5/95 and 5/97 are only 2 verses which mention the word 'kaaba'.
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al-bayt is a very interesting concept, i suggest researching it via al-quraan.
Taken from PRL
= Ba-Ya-Ta =
by/in/at night (excluding sleep), entered upon or passed the night
tent, house, home
Thinking about something and its end result
Concealed or conceived something in the mind
A structure of clay or any structure signifying a habitation, an abode or dwelling.
Buildings, uninhabited houses, shops, ruins, bazaars, places where the entering is allowed by the owners.
Ark of Noah, Mosques, places of worship, Kaabeh or Jerusalem
A grave
Household or family
Nobility
Sudden attack in the night or a surprise attack in the night
Remaining through the night (e.g. bread or water that stays out and becomes stale)Wakas
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Salaam Br Wakas,
Sure it's amazing!
my yahoo id is hazalbait
Peace sis Maria
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Peace Agent,
"Kaaba" the house of Allah was built by Adam and then by Abraham. what make me wonder is why the prophets never tried to come to the house of Allah the most sacred place on earth.
You answered the question...It was 'according to our belief' that we spread this misinformation about the Kaaba in Mecca being the house built by Abraham.
Why the immidiate decendends of Abraham isaac, Jacob, Joseph etc never thought of coming to the house of Allah? Did Abraham or God forgot to mention kaaba to them?
There is no evidence that even Ismail came there...It is only based on heresay.
Moses wandered in the wilderness along with his followers for 40 years in search for the promised land but never mentions kaba or tries to come to Mecca. solomon and david were kings, what prevented them from coming to mecca to visit the house of Lord?
They did visit the house of the Lord, the one in Bakka.
ch 2847
And you were not present on side of the mount when we called to Moses. all these revelations are the mercy of your Lord, so that you may warn the people TO WHOME NO PROPHET CAME BEFORE YOU, and they may take heed.This has made me more confused, this verse say no prophet came to warn them before Muhammad?
This means that Mohammed was not located where the house of God was built when he was preaching these messages...Thus the Arabic speaking people (decendants of the Nabateans) had never recieved a prophet in their land.
what about Abraham and Ismael, were they not prophets when they built Kaaba? did they not warn the people? did they forgot to tell the people the reason for the constuction of kaba?
They were never in Mecca, but were in Jerusalem where th house of the Lord was raised.
why the Muslims were initially commanded to perform salat facing "qibla awal" and then years after hijrat they were commanded by God to turn towards kaaba? did Allah not informed our prophet from the first day about his house?
Because the 1st Qibla is the true Qibla...While the change was commanded as a test for the followers of the prophet to see if they understood that the message was more important than objects or structures.
Why did God send birds with stones to defend kaba and then send rain and flood water to destroy its walls after couple of decades?
Again, the birds being sent to Mecca are heresay...
please help me understand,
Jerusalem (Bakka) is the city where Abraham raised the foundation of the house dedicated to God, and it is where all the prophets ended up. Mecca is a pagan city dedicated to the worship of idols, who, after the prophet died, decided to establish themselves as 'Bakka'. What helped the Meccean idol worshippers is the fact that the prophet had turned away from Jerusalem by command, and thus they made the claim that he had been instructed to turn towards Mecca...This lie was sealed by the blood of a civil war (if true) that left most of the faithful dead and the power in the hands of the Hadith fabricators.
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salam,
layth most of what you say seems logical to me, still few more thing to be explainedthe birds being sent to Mecca are heresay
ch105have you not seen how your Lord dealt with the owners of the elephant?
Did He not ruin their plan and send down upon them flocks of birds which struck them on stones of clay, so that he reduced them to rotten chaff.so this chapter has nothing to do with saving kaaba? could u explain the backgroung of this chapter for me?
brother mquran i request you to explain 597 Allah has make the sacred house of kaaba. also tell me the chverse about Ibrahim and his son constructing a house for worship )
thank u all. -
Salaamun alaikum,
LaythThey did visit the house of the Lord, the one in Bakka.
Now LAYTH is giving heresay, hehe.
Layth This means that Mohammed was not located where the house of God was built when he was preaching these messages...Thus the Arabic speaking people (decendants of the Nabateans) had never recieved a prophet in their land.
Funnily, Allah said ALL ummas recieved messengers (10/47). So clearly ,unless Allah was doing wrong to these people, they recieved messengers too.
They were never in Mecca, but were in Jerusalem where th house of the Lord was raised
Also conjecture, guesswork.
Agentxxx brother mquran i request you to explain 597 Allah has make the sacred house of kaaba. also tell me the chverse about Ibrahim and his son constructing a house for worship
Sure, my reading of 5/97 is that Allah has made the base/central administration (arabic al-kaaba) of His system (al-bait al-haraam) to be the point where humankind can be established (qiyaaman linaas).
2/122-131 tells us about Ibrahim who established God's system on earth. This system was a safe place for humankind and the first establishment of operational al-islaam.
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Peace agent,
layth most of what you say seems logical to me, still few more thing to be explained
the birds being sent to Mecca are heresay
ch105have you not seen how your Lord dealt with the owners of the elephant?
Did He not ruin their plan and send down upon them flocks of birds which struck them on stones of clay, so that he reduced them to rotten chaff.so this chapter has nothing to do with saving kaaba? could u explain the backgroung of this chapter for me?
My reading is that it refers to what happened to the town of Lot (unless Mekka is the town of Lot, which I doubt).
The key word is 'rocks of Sijeel' which is found in 1182 and 1575 as reference to the destruction wreaked upon the town of Lot.
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salam,
I can read Arabic since my childhood, but I dont understand this language, not even a fraction of it as compaired to you guys. my study of quran for understanding is mostly in urdu which is our national language.we live in a society dominated by mullahs who teach us to read quran in arabic, but they themselves dont understand arabic, any question which they cant answer, you are sure to be snubed for that, you can be in biiiiiiiiiiiiig trouble.
such forums are the best place for better understanding and I am thankful to all of you guys n gals wink
can someone tell me why the verses of quran are not in exact chronological order?
layth says about ch 105My reading is that it refers to what happened to the town of Lot (unless Mekka is the town of Lot, which I doubt).
The key word is 'rocks of Sijeel' which is found in 1182 and 1575 as reference to the destruction wreaked upon the town of Lot.these verses should have be in the same chapter together if they relate to the same event? what i mean to say is why the verses are scattered like a jigsaw puzzle pieces and to prove any point or issue we have to pick one verse from ch1, one from5 and the other may be some place else?
I have seen dr zakir naik do that Ahmed dedad does it, as well as most of our other scholars here in pakistan.
my question is, has this been done intentionally by those who arrange it or is it unintentional? also why no efforts have been made to arrange it catagorically, subject wise, to make it easy for everyone to understand.take care.
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salam to all,
"Kaaba" the house of Allah was built by Adam and then by Abraham. what make me wonder is why the prophets never tried to come to the house of Allah the most sacred place on earth.
Why the immidiate decendends of Abraham isaac, Jacob,
Joseph etc never thought of coming to the house of Allah? Did Abraham or God forgot to mention kaaba to them?Moses wandered in the wilderness along with his followers for 40 years in search for the promised land but never mentions kaba or tries to come to Mecca. solomon and david were kings, what prevented them from coming to mecca to visit the house of Lord?
ch 2847
And you were not present on side of the mount when we called to Moses. all these revelations are the mercy of your Lord, so that you may warn the people TO WHOME NO PROPHET CAME BEFORE YOU, and they may take heed.This has made me more confused, this verse say no prophet came to warn them before Muhammad?
what about Abraham and Ismael, were they not prophets when they built Kaaba? did they not warn the people? did they forgot to tell the people the reason for the constuction of kaba?
why the Muslims were initially commanded to perform salat facing "qibla awal" and then years after hijrat they were commanded by God to turn towards kaaba? did Allah not informed our prophet from the first day about his house?
Why did God send birds with stones to defend kaba and then send rain and flood water to destroy its walls after couple of decades?
please help me understand,
thankyou.This is a really good question and I think that I would like to know the answer myself.
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Layth
My reading is that it refers to what happened to the town of Lot (unless Mekka is the town of Lot, which I doubt).
The key word is 'rocks of Sijeel' which is found in 1182 and 1575 as reference to the destruction wreaked upon the town of Lot.
Speaking about the town of Lot and his people
Layth, please look closely at the following verses, and read them thouroughlyAnd We left remains of it as a clear sign for a people who understand.
And We have left in it a sign for those who fear the painful retribution.
These two verse state that the remains of the town of Lot have been left behind as "signs" so that the people can learn a lesson from it.
Looking closely at the next three verses, you will notice that the people who can learn most from this sign are the Meccans themselves. The town of Lot was very close to Mecca. So close, that anyone riding a camel, can make the trip to and fro, in a single day.
In this are signs for those who seek concrete signs.
And it was on an established path.
In that is a sign for the believers.Verse 1575 states that in it (the remains of the town) are signs for the "mutawassimeen"
-1 ) The way I see it, "mutawassimeen" are those who like (or seek) material or concrete evidences or signs. We know that there were always hippocrites who kept asking the prophet about "material signs" ( miracles).
This verse can be thought of as a kind of mocking reply to such people ( the "mutawassimeen")-2) Note the italics in 1576. It says that the remains of the town are "on a well established path"
We can interpret that the path or road that leads to it, is well established -clear, and very well known - to the Meccans.
Therefore, it serves as an excellent sign to those who believe .
The last and strongest case to support this theory, would have to be the following verse
And you pass by their ruins in the morning;
And in the night. Do you not understand?I believe he is addressing the Meccans here.
Conclusion Mecca is NOT the town of Lot, but it's very close to it D
Your feedback is welcome!
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Salaam Agentxxx
Please learn Arabic. Following link will help you to lear Arabic easily as well as understand the message. I am not Arabic Speaking myself but there are Arabic speaking people who also have difficulty understanding the message clearly.
Word for Word Translation of Qur'an
