truth and Ahmed Bahgat...why are you avoiding this question?
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Peace mz357,
I think the user should be given a warning on how to conduct discussions. If that doesn't work, I'm in agreement with you. Seriously though, no matter how much we might disagree, one only weakens their position like this. It's emotional not logical.
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Peace be upon you all,
Our goal is PEACE, we cannot leave that for anything.
PB is good at getting people all riled up, it is good practice at keeping your peace.
No matter how wrong and agressive he becomes, the one who loses his peace is the loser. He has already lost his, do not lose yours also.
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Peace be upon you all,
Our goal is PEACE, we cannot leave that for anything.
PB is good at getting people all riled up, it is good practice at keeping your peace.
No matter how wrong and agressive he becomes, the one who loses his peace is the loser. He has already lost his, do not lose yours also.
I agree and he will be ignored from now on, but the problem is he raised a post using my name while I ended the discussion with him
you see those open minded mulsims like me can be fooled easy by undercover enemies of our great religion and they only do this to spread discord
but Allah will expose them and will defeat them
Amen
peace
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Peace mz357,
I think the user should be given a warning on how to conduct discussions. If that doesn't work, I'm in agreement with you. Seriously though, no matter how much we might disagree, one only weakens their position like this. It's emotional not logical.
sure and obviously you are a muslim who accepts the religion to be misinformed on public boards by people with a clear agenda
his manipulations of the verses were answered over 10 times by knowledgable muslims and yet he continue to spam the board with the same silly subject and he even uses member names in his titles
can you have a guess between you and yourself in why a memebr does what PB is doing?
think, think and you will eventually realize the danger
it is called in the quran Discord
now we have a media called internet and will help spreading the discord
how do you know it is a one who spreads discord?
simply when he insists in posting the same futile manipulations after it was already refuted over 10 times
also I'm not a user, I'm a member and the warning was delievered already and I accpeted it and was fair
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PBM
please don't raise any threads with my name on it
I have terminated the discussion about the meat of the pig with ya because you have been refuted not just by me but by many
if you have any other concern or different undererstading to any other Quran verse other than the four you are obsessed with, you are welcome to raise the concern but without posting my name in the title and I may look at it
thanks
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Peace AB,
sure and obviously you are a muslim who accepts the religion to be misinformed on public boards by people with a clear agenda
I'm not sure what you mean by this but I have discussed with PB over quite a few pages in the original thread and left it because there is no point in arguing with people who will not accept. The points have been covered and counters have been given time and time again.
his manipulations of the verses were answered over 10 times by knowledgable muslims and yet he continue to spam the board with the same silly subject and he even uses member names in his titles
So does one other member...and he still does spam at times and occasionaly jaunts into off topic rants too. If you ignore it, it is harmless and has no power to affect you.
can you have a guess between you and yourself in why a memebr does what PB is doing?
I see your point and it is something that has been raised quite a long time back...before you even joined the board lol
think, think and you will eventually realize the danger
it is called in the quran Discord
now we have a media called internet and will help spreading the discord
how do you know it is a one who spreads discord?
simply when he insists in posting the same futile manipulations after it was already refuted over 10 times
He can only cause discord if the people choose to take it as such. Everyone has their points and their way of discussing, as I said in another thread dealing with the same topic, I am not in favour of 'millitant' discussions and have never been. I believe it is best after the points are made, to ignore the rest if it is a circular argument. Next time if a topic comes up, you can link to the original thread/s if the concern is that people need to see the other side. It's quite a valid concern too.
also I'm not a user, I'm a member and the warning was delievered already and I accpeted it and was fair
You are a user and a member of the board. Thanks for clarifying wink In reality if any argument has the sentence, "Do pigs have claws?", it's really not worth it lol
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In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."
(7)
Sadak Allahu Al Azeem
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thank you savage_carrot for your reply
peace
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In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."
(7)
Sadak Allahu Al Azeem
LOL!!!...if you only knew that the above ayat is grossly mistranslated, but that is for another time. lol
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PBM
please don't raise any threads with my name on it
I have terminated the discussion about the meat of the pig with ya because you have been refuted not just by me but by many
if you have any other concern or different undererstading to any other Quran verse other than the four you are obsessed with, you are welcome to raise the concern but without posting my name in the title and I may look at it
thanks
If you hadn't chose to duck and hide from my question, then I would not have resorted to calling you out. Duck me again and I will start a thread on you again wink
You've refuted nothing. That pigs don't have claws, in conjunction with ayats 4160, 55, and 16116, absolutely refutes your silly superstitious notion that khinzeer means the animal pig. You, see...mate, there is absolutely no way that you or the others can go to Al-Quran and prove definitively that the animal specie pig, was ever haram to the Jews. However, I, as a result of ayat 6146, can definitively prove that, the animal specie pig, was not one of the haram animals to the Jews. I know this truth hurts you to the very core of your being, but it's simply time to accept it...mate.
It's fine by me that you wish to leave the discussion. Btw, the four ayats I raised...are/were more than enough to prove my assertion and absolutely refute yours. Those ayats will always be like a heel in your neck...the truth is like that sometimes. D
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Peace be upon you all,
PB is good at getting people all riled up, it is good practice at keeping your peace.
I don't get anyone riled, people choose to get themselves riled up.
No matter how wrong and agressive he becomes, the one who loses his peace is the loser.
I'm not aggresive at all, however, I am assertive.
He has already lost his, do not lose yours also.
LOL!! Man, you just love to hear yourself talk and conjecture, don't you? How do you know I've lost my peace, can you now read my heart now? Speak for yourself. Btw, I'm still waiting for you to deliver the proof that the head of SET, is a pig. Is this proof soon forthcoming, seeing that you know this to be a fact? Anyway, on the contrary, I have a great deal of peace ever since I read, and continue to read, The Arab Conspiracy Against Al-Islam and study the Arabic terms in Al-Quran. My greatest source of peace however, as a result of the aforementioned, is knowing that I am now out of shirk. You, on the other hand, are not. So, how much peace do you truly have wink
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TO MY DETRACTORS,
It is so typical that, whenever you people cannot defend your superstitious beliefs when debating me, that you soon resort to name calling, slander, lies, conjecture, gossip, and calling for me to be banned. My, what wonderful examples of Muslims you all are lol
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Salam PBM
You've refuted nothing. That pigs don't have claws, in conjunction with ayats 4160, 55, and 16116, absolutely refutes your silly superstitious notion that khinzeer means the animal pig. You, see...mate, there is absolutely no way that you or the others can go to Al-Quran and prove definitively that the animal specie pig, was ever haram to the Jews. However, I, as a result of ayat 6146, can definitively prove that, the animal specie pig, was not one of the haram animals to the Jews. I know this truth hurts you to the very core of your being, but it's simply time to accept it...mate.
Khi- That is where you are wrong. You cannot prove anything, not to mention definitely prove. Where does 6146 or any other verse in the Quran for that matter say that those were the ONLY animal prohibitions for the Jews? Therefore you are just conjecturing. On the other hand taking "khinzeer" to mean "animal pig" in the Quran, which it obviously does, and considering the verses where GOD says that the food of the people of the book was made lawful to us, we can likewise conclude that the "animal pig" was made haram for the Jews. Only if 6146 would have said "ONLY forbidden for the Jews was..." would have your claim been correct. GOD Bless!
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PEACE, IDMKHIZIR,
PBM You've refuted nothing. That pigs don't have claws, in conjunction with ayats 4160, 55, and 16116, absolutely refutes your silly superstitious notion that khinzeer means the animal pig. You, see...mate, there is absolutely no way that you or the others can go to Al-Quran and prove definitively that the animal specie pig, was ever haram to the Jews. However, I, as a result of ayat 6146, can definitively prove that, the animal specie pig, was not one of the haram animals to the Jews. I know this truth hurts you to the very core of your being, but it's simply time to accept it...mate.
Khi- That is where you are wrong. You cannot prove anything, not to mention definitely prove. Where does 6146 or any other verse in the Quran for that matter say that those were the ONLY animal prohibitions for the Jews? Therefore you are just conjecturing.
733 Say My Lord has only made haram indecencies...and that you say of Allah what you do not know.
1736 And do not follow that of which you have no knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that
If Al-Quran does not mention, definitively, any other animals as being haram, outside of those which are definitively named in ayat 6146, then for you to assume that there may be others that are haram i.e. the pig, is to conjecture that there is. To then accept that conjecture as definitive truth and follow it, is per ayats 733 and 1736, haram to do . You cannot declare something to be haram based on a conjecture, it is haram to do so. You can only declare something to be haram when Allah, definitively, has declared that something to be haram. If you don't know for a certainty know something is haram, then it is haram to declare as such. You cannot declare something to be haram on a conjecture. I cannot make this concept any plainer for you. Either you understand and accept this or you don't, but I am not going to repeat this to you again.
On the other hand taking "khinzeer" to mean "animal pig" in the Quran, which it obviously does, and considering the verses where GOD says that the food of the people of the book was made lawful to us, we can likewise conclude that the "animal pig" was made haram for the Jews. Only if 6146 would have said "ONLY forbidden for the Jews was..." would have your claim been correct. GOD Bless!
If khinzeer obviously means the specie of animal pig, then please provide the Quranic EVIDENCE where Allah, definitively, made the pig haram to the Jews/People of the Book. If you cannot do this, then you are only conjecturing and following that conjecture as truth---and that is haram to do. According to ayat 6146, Allah made only made the species of animals with claws haram to the Jews. Pigs don't have claws, thus, they are not in the group of haram animals. With this in mind then, ayat 55 proves that the pig is halal for those who follow Al-Quran, because the pig was never made haram to the Jews, that it was, in fact, halal for them whether they accepted that fact or not. Hence, once again, per ayat 55, what was halal to the Jews as food is halal to the Muslim as food. I cannot make this concept any plainer for you. Either you understand and accept this or you don't, but I am not going to repeat this to you again.
Peace.
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If Al-Quran does not mention, definitively, any other animals as being haram, outside of those which are definitively named in ayat 6146, then for you to assume that there may be others that are haram i.e. the pig, is to conjecture that there is. To then accept that conjecture as definitive truth and follow it, is per ayats 733 and 1736, haram to do . You cannot declare something to be haram based on a conjecture, it is haram to do so. You can only declare something to be haram when Allah, definitively, has declared that something to be haram. If you don't know for a certainty know something is haram, then it is haram to declare as such. You cannot declare something to be haram on a conjecture. I cannot make this concept any plainer for you. Either you understand and accept this or you don't, but I am not going to repeat this to you again.
Khi- Salam. Likewise you cannot declare something to be HALAL based on conjecture, more so as the grammatical evidence in the Quran clearly proves that "khinzeer" is used for the animal pig. This is what makes me certain that the animal is meant, otherwise your argument might have carried some weight but also not a proof unless you could show that the Quran explicitly says that animal prohibitons in 6146 were the ONLY ones to the Jews. In that case you would be right but now coz of the grammatical form the argument is over. And once again it poses no contradiction coz 6146 DOES NOT say that those were the ONLY animal prohibitions to the Jews.
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Salam PBM,
However, I, as a result of ayat 6146, can definitively prove that, the animal specie pig, was not one of the haram animals to the Jews. I know this truth hurts you to the very core of your being, but it's simply time to accept it...mate.
Khi- As i said 6146 CAN NEVER be used to PROVE that "khinzeer" cannot mean the aninmal pig simply because the verse does NOT say that those were all animal prohibitons to the Jews. Thus it may simply list a part of the animnal prohibitons. So we have to go over to other means/verses to prove what the meaning of "khinzeer" is and that was done by the grammatical form. This grammatical form then further PROVES that 6146 lists ONLY part of the animal prohibitions and that pig was prohibited for the people of the book. Get it now? GOD Bless!
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Salam PBM,
However, I, as a result of ayat 6146, can definitively prove that, the animal specie pig, was not one of the haram animals to the Jews. I know this truth hurts you to the very core of your being, but it's simply time to accept it...mate.
Khi- As i said 6146 CAN NEVER be used to PROVE that "khinzeer" cannot mean the aninmal pig simply because the verse does NOT say that those were all animal prohibitons to the Jews. Thus it may simply list a part of the animnal prohibitons. So we have to go over to other means/verses to prove what the meaning of "khinzeer" is and that was done by the grammatical form. This grammatical form then further PROVES that 6146 lists ONLY part of the animal prohibitions and that pig was prohibited for the people of the book. Get it now? GOD Bless!
You just don't get it and I cannot make it any plainer to you.
Peace.
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Khi- As i said 6146 CAN NEVER be used to PROVE that "khinzeer" cannot mean the aninmal pig simply because the verse does NOT say that those were all animal prohibitons to the Jews. DOES NOT say that those were the ONLY animal prohibitions to the Jews.
That's the point, IMDkhizir!...we CANNOT declare smething haram with out absolute ceratinty of it and, whatever Allah has not definitively declared to be haram, we CANNOT make that thing haram. DO YOU GET THIS BASIC CONCEPT?? If you don't believe me, then ask Wakas or Joe or Zenje.
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what a load of non sense
The Quran made the pig Haram in 3 locations
we are not making the pig haram on the jew, we don;r give a fluke on the jew
the verse which says don't make things haram is talking about the things allowed for muslims you load of non sense
and consequently it was Allah who made the pigs forbidden on the Muslim, forget the jews
your argument that we made things forbidden while it is allowed for us is laughable lol lol lol , now the pig was exxplicitly forbidden on the muslims in 3 locations in the Quran we we did not make it forbidden on us
hey can you answer this question
1 + 1 = ?
let me see if hold the basics of rational
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we are not making the pig haram on the jew, we don;r give a fluke on the jew
Allah chose the words in ayat 6146, yet, you say, "we don't give a fluke on the jew". Is there any wonder why you don't know what you are talking about?
the verse which says don't make things haram is talking about the things allowed for muslims you load of non sense your argument that we made things forbidden while it is allowed for us is laughable lol lol lol , now the pig was exxplicitly forbidden on the muslims in 3 locations in the Quran we we did not make it forbidden on us
nope If the pig is haram in 3 locations, as you claim, then 4160, 55, and 6146, contradicts your claim, because as even you had to admit...pigs don't have claws, thus, the pig cannot be haram in 3 locations. It is simply your imagination playing tricks on you. lol .