Quran & Democracy: Are they compatible? by M. Asadi
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HOW will we implement these laws.
The text hilighted in red big fonts is the reply to all your Hows .....We can't implement the Qur'an Laws until majority of Sunnis Shias accept that Qur'an Laws cannot be superceeded by man written books. This simply means not possible at present time.
I never discuss any issue for wining a debate. The purpose is just to say what is according to the book.
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Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.
This is your get out clause to ignore the IMMUTABLE DIVINE LAW wink
Regards,
I never said that old man. Im sure you made a mistake... old chap wink
KGB
So your best answer is that you dont know? Ok how about this. imagine a country where sunnis and shias accpet that quran is the only law. HOW will it work then?
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So your best answer is that you dont know? Ok how about this. imagine a country where sunnis and shias accpet that quran is the only law. HOW will it work then?
You tell me why it will not work. The system did work at the time of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and 300 more years after Prophet's death where laws the system was pure Quranic according to the laws of Allah.
The system is very much practical to succeed at present time. So please don't start arguing about the time period.
Layth has written Constitution according to Qur'an? There are many more scholars who had done this in the past including G. A. Pervaiz.
Refer to Qur'an about the social and econmic system.
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Salaam Jaxal
I really don't know what exactly you want to hear. The establishing Allah Taala laws within a country surely will not be done by democratic one person on vote sytem. The head of the setup the constituational committee consists of Qur'an scholars. They will draft the constition. This committee will selection the Shura by consultation.
I can give you the detail system design if you bear the cost which will be substential because I have spend lots of my time on it.
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salam all .
i recieved this email from M. Asadi .From [email protected]
Sent Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1146 PM
To [email protected]
Subject Quran and Democracy
Quran & Democracy Are they compatible?
Muhammed Asadi
(www.asadi.org)What has happened in modern bureaucratic societies, that parade as democracies (like the USA), is that the chance to reason and the ability to be free has been lost (see http//robots.asadi.org)- that is the nature of a bureaucratic society a society where standardization is the norm and the person is surrounded by rules that govern behavior from birth to death. Such "democracies" exists in form only and not in essence, here choices are not formulated by a "public" but rather insinuated upon a highly propagandized "mass society" that knows next to nothing regarding public issues. This is achieved by control of the "cultural apparatus" by a small aristocracy, the Power Elite. The "cultural apparatus"- language, education, status and technology- with the media and the formal educational institutions playing a dominant role, thus ensures that this elite achieves cultural hegemony. The person thinks he or she is free and living under a "democracy" but the reality of the situation is much different.
A democratic society assumes an "informed" public, as against a propagandized "mass society". Those in a "mass society" have their hopes and aspirations conditioned by what others have told them and unconsciously acquired habits based upon such conditioning. Those in a public formulate their values and choices themselves based on substantive reason, as C. Wright Mills explained in the 1950s and as the Quran made clear fourteen centuries back "Say Are those who know and those who do not know alike?" (Quran 399)
Under a system where the "mass society" has not yet gained enough information to make choices, to transform itself into a "public", democracy in essence is impossible. Hence the Quranic statement "And if you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess" (Quran 6116). A "majority of those on earth" does not constitute an "informed Islamic public" and never will (according to the Quranic statement). Further we are told "None can inform you like the one who is aware" (Quran 3514), a similar recommendation is the case with Quran 2559.
Once we have a semblance of a "public" emerging, as happened after the first community of Muslims emerged out of the previously existing "mass society" in Arabia (Quran 3110), even the prophet was told to ". consult with them upon the conduct of affairs." (Quran 3159). We are also told how the process of governance is to be conducted in a society of similar publics "And whose rule is based upon consultation (Shura) among themselves" (Quran 4238 ). This consultation (Shura) is to be totally in the public record and not secret (Quran 5810).
Therefore, we can conclude that a Muslim society would have a counsel where the public consults with the decision makers, the decision makers would be the ones "who know" (as deduced above) i.e. are qualified in the area in which they are making decisions. The decision makers would be numerous, unless one person claims to know everything in all fields, which is impossible. A counsel of intellectuals with no limit to their numbers that are in constant touch with the public and consult with them is thus the Islamic form of government. This would be democracy in essence, since the entire society including the decision makers would have equal status, and would participate in the decision making process. The criteria for assigning status in such a society would not be material possessions rather it would be the level of social consciousness that an individual possesses (see Quran 4913).
The framework under which decisions are to be made would be the Quran (see 6114 etc), and specifically its "mohkam" (or standard setting) statements (see Quran 37). These standard setting statements are called the "mother of the book" in the Quran (Quran 37). Based upon these verses not only are our new laws going to be interpreted but also the other verses of the Quran itself, "the motashabey" (the allegorical or consimilar). The "mohkam" verses number a lot less than the entire Quran, therefore the amount of freedom that the Quran grants us is much greater than any that is granted by a bureaucratized society, where laws govern every aspect of life. What traditionalists have done is to canonize their own (extra Quranic) laws as a bureaucratized form of "Islam", this is exactly what the Quran warns against (Quran 4221), because this not only stifles reason but prevents freedom in that it reduces the "consultation" part of governance and does not take into consideration the historical era and the social structure that exists in that era. As such it stifles reason as well
The Quran thus grants greater freedom and the resulting ability to reason compared to any (bureaucratized) system that exists in the current epoch "Those who avoid the greater (Kabair) crimes and shameful deeds..." (Quran 4237). The greater crimes are less than a handful and can be extracted from Quran's description of crimes, those are the only ones we are told to avoid. Here the Quran is not concerned about the smaller details that keep the traditionalist "Islamic scholars" busy, even as they ignore the bigger public issues that are causing great problems among humankind. A truly Islamic society would be one in which freedom and reason flourishes and laws are minimal, it would be a truly democratic society, where democracy is practiced in essence and not just by slogan.
M. Asadi
Well, I did not read it all, but I am pretty sure taht you have a point about that. I feel as thoug that is true because I am an American. However, it does get to me when I hear that all these people are talking about America the way that they are because they are not Americans. I get sad and I feel as though that they do have a point. However, when Americans talk about their very own country like that it makes me angry because this is the country that they live in and they should be protecting this country. THis is just my opinion.
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SaLaM KGB
Dear brother, YOU are the one who is sure Quran has it all. So give me the verses from the Quran which show how to select a constitutional body.
Interesting. I think and I do not know.
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Salaam Jaxal
Please read carefully Islamic Constituion by Layth. Also read G. A. Pervaiz article on tolueislam.com or tolueislam.org. Selection of Constition committee must be done by the head of the state consists of Qur'an scholars. There must be very well qualified scholars of the book sincere and honest.
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Salaam Jaxal
Please read carefully Islamic Constituion by Layth. Also read G. A. Pervaiz article on tolueislam.com or tolueislam.org. Selection of Constition committee must be done by the head of the state consists of Qur'an scholars. There must be very well qualified scholars of the book sincere and honest.
They mus be, but I would have to check it out.
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SaLaM KGB
KGB , when YOU tell me something, the it is YOUR responsibility to prove what you are saying. Im asking you something very specific. EXPLICITLY SPECIFIC. How does the Quran asks us to choose a constitutional. This is NOT EVEN THE BEGINNING of running a country. This does not even make up 1%. But YOU bring me the verses which EXPLICITLY address this issue.
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SaLaM KGB
KGB , when YOU tell me something, the it is YOUR responsibility to prove what you are saying. Im asking you something very specific. EXPLICITLY SPECIFIC. How does the Quran asks us to choose a constitutional. This is NOT EVEN THE BEGINNING of running a country. This does not even make up 1%. But YOU bring me the verses which EXPLICITLY address this issue.
I wish that I had an answer fo ryou.
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SaLaM KGB
Its not my responsibility to make you understand Qur'an
Plz dont kid yourself. You cant prove your own statment. Why would ANYONE give you responsibility to make us understand Quran? And no one has asked you to make me understand Quran. I asked you to prove what you posted. You made a statment and now you cant back it up. But i will give you another chance. I think asking you to prove your entire post is just too much for you right now. So lets go point by point.
YOU SAID Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
Ok. Show me the verses from the Quran that tell us how we select a head of state.
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Salaam all
Intersting to see all the posts after few days.mquran
Quote
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.My brother, you have arrived. Thank you for being patient in this thread and now your patience is rewarded.
I think you are mistaken in attributing the above quote to me. Therefore I am still travelling! according to your definition.
I think jaxal has implified the whole discussion. If all are in agreement why dont we deal with one point at time. Before we can discuss invidual laws in the Quran why dont we start at the beginning and decide how we, or anyone else for that matter ( I am willing to be educated), are going to implement these laws.
Let us begin with
YOU SAID Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
Above question is so simple that even a simpleton like me can understand it. So come on you very clever intellectuals who find every thing easy please answer in a simple form so people like me can understand.
Regards -
Salaam
Apolgies the full quote isYOU SAID Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
Ok. Show me the verses from the Quran that tell us how we select a head of state.
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SaLaM KGB
Lets stick to the discussion at hand. You made a statment. Now its time to back it up. You said
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
now you said
I can give you the reply to how to select the head of state
Alright. Using ONLY AND ONLY the verses of the Quran, show me and stillearning how we will select the head of state. And remember this is only point 1. There are 2 more to go.