RULES:
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Salaam KGB,
I have not problem with different interpretation of cutting hands. I said exactly what you are saying in different words ofcouse. I never had any problem discussing issues with Joe, Kyle or you.
Same goes with me. We may not agree, but alhamdulillah, the right attitude is there.
If it was cutting of the hands, i should have no problem with it either if it was really the case. In any ruling given by Allah or His messenger, the correct response is we hear and we obey.
I had a problem with this with the democracy issue some years back. I could not believe that al-quraan doesn't prescribe democracy. However, after observing 'modern evolved' society, I understood why. Al-quraan simply knows us better that we'd ever know ourselves.
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Raqabah in 4/92 refers to a person in bondage. It could be a financial bondage for example.
I call it Corporation slavery. Slaves of the sytem set up by rich and powerful. Financial institution and Credit Cards system Slavery. I believe I fully agree on you on the modern day slavery concept.
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I call it Corporation slavery. Slaves of the sytem set up by rich and powerful. Financial institution and Credit Cards system Slavery. I believe I fully agree on you on the modern day slavery concept.
Yes exactly. These corporations are the best examples of the modern-day slave masters. Using their economic leverage , they enforce a whole culture of greed and oppression.
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PeacefulMuslim
100 lashes punishment for adultery is the most appropriate even in today. Read the verses carefully which are clear that this punishment is prescribed by Allah Taala to cause shame and humiliation for adulterers instead of harming them physically. This is my understanding you have the right to disagree.
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Salaam all,
wow hot discussions again!!!
Jaxal don't make us to be your enemies, please!?
Mq I agree with you, that's all I can say right now when i have read what you have written.
Peace Sis Maria
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Salaam Br Jaxal,
Never mind Jaxal.
But aren't u and Br Joe argue too much???
Peace Sis Maria
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Hi Nabi,
I'm not sure why the punishments and rules of society should not stand for all time.
hmm, ok.
do u feel if Quran was sent today, it would have the same kind of punishments and rules?Which standard are you talking about? Is this the standard of the society in which you live, imprisonment for stealing? As MQ said, the punishment is not the physical chopping off of one's hands rather cutting their power or means. The punishment should fit the crime.
Didnt quite get u. isnt the punishment for stealing, imprisonment in today's world?
if its not the physical chopping, then what is it?cutting their power or means- how?100 lashes. You must not let pity detain you from obedience to Allah.
Could you explain why this punishment may be less suitable?yeah, Adultery is not considered much of a crime these days and actual punishment for it doesnt really exsist. have no clue what a suitable punishment would be. but 100 lashes does sound harsh.
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Hi Nabi,
Are you saying the moral conceptions of men a few milennia ago were not on par with our own today? That our morals have evolved from a more primitive morality?
Yes! do u believe that people have not evolved into more civilzed beings now?
i mean, if we dig into history, there wasnt much order, civilzation back then. -
o.k. do u believe the torah, gospel etc were guidance/messages from God?
No.
o.k.so, do u believe quran is a message/guidance from God?
33 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
I salute your honesty in using the phrase 'i think' and 'probably'. Sadly, this is where it ends because on paper, we can't see which is more suitable, modern retributions or quranic retributions. I trust al-quraan to provide the most suitable punishments because of the accuracy with which it has deconstructed the world for me. The only test to suitability is the results.
Are u saying the punishments used in today's world such as imprisonment, rigorous imprisonment etc are of no good and bring no results?
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Hi KGB,
100 lashes punishment for adultery is the most appropriate even in today. Read the verses carefully which are clear that this punishment is prescribed by Allah Taala to cause shame and humiliation for adulterers instead of harming them physically. This is my understanding you have the right to disagree.
Hmm, yeah, but is there no other less physical way of doing it?
i mean, the point is, who ever commits adultery should be made to feel sorry for it coz its a sin. cant we do it in any other way, other than 100 lashes?just a thought!and u can disagree too. peace!
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Peace,
do u feel if Quran was sent today, it would have the same kind of punishments and rules?
I believe so. The rabb/lord does not run out of words, this should mean something .
Didnt quite get u. isnt the punishment for stealing, imprisonment in today's world?
I think it would depend on what part of the world you make your abode. I do not think punishment for thievery is all the same everywhere.
if its not the physical chopping, then what is it?cutting their power or means- how?
Yad mean hand and can stand for power or superiority. In ayat 929 I think an elucidation of this can be found where the jiyza in acknowlegement of superiority/yadin. How can it be implemented? Well in the narration/hadeeth of Joe his brethren were to pay back in accordance to the thievery.
yeah, Adultery is not considered much of a crime these days and actual punishment for it doesnt really exsist. have no clue what a suitable punishment would be. but 100 lashes does sound harsh.
I suppose it does sound harsh. Again what does the lord say? "Let not pity for them detain you from obedience to Allah." I'm not sure why there is no punishment today, I guess such a union does not hold so much importance to people these days.
Yes! do u believe that people have not evolved into more civilzed beings now?
No. I believe people of yester-year could live in today's societies and vice-versa. I believe knowledge has become more available, but I also believe that 'no idea's original, there's nothing new under the sun'.
i mean, if we dig into history, there wasnt much order, civilzation back then.
Really? I think history can be likened to today. I believe America resembles Rome. There were governments up in place in the old days. People had rules and laws. I look to today and see much disorder. Not that we're not civilized, we just don't always act it.
Joe
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Peaceful Muslim, Jaxal
668 And when you see those who engage (in vain talks) concerning Our Verses, then turn away from them until they engage in a talk other than that. And if Shaitaan causes you to forget, then do not sit after the remembrance with the wrongdoing people. Source emulsim.com Word for Word Translation of Qur'an
I can't reject the clear verses of Qur'an. This all discussion is unproductive.
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SaLaM KGB
So if someone commits adultary, then you lash him/her 100 times. what if someone hacks into your computer, steals ur bank detail and cleans out your bank account. Or what if someone racially swears at you. What will you do then? Quran is not a book containing laws to run the society. You need to understand that. Just like its not a book of science or quantum physics. neither is it a book on how to run a country. Sure it says about adultry but even you will agree there are 100 of crimes to which the Quran does not refer. What will you do in those cases? Obviously the Quran will be of no help.
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Hi KGB,
668 And when you see those who engage (in vain talks) concerning Our Verses, then turn away from them until they engage in a talk other than that. And if Shaitaan causes you to forget, then do not sit after the remembrance with the wrongdoing people. Source emulsim.com Word for Word Translation of Qur'an
I can't reject the clear verses of Qur'an. This all discussion is unproductive.when did a healthy constructive discussion become vain talk?if u name everything other than Quran, vain talk..............i honestly wont know what to say to u.
anyways, peace!