Quran & Democracy: Are they compatible? by M. Asadi
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Salaam all
Intersting to see all the posts after few days.mquran
Quote
Qur'an command us to implement the Laws of Allah Taala when he grants us the power on the piece of land.My brother, you have arrived. Thank you for being patient in this thread and now your patience is rewarded.
I think you are mistaken in attributing the above quote to me. Therefore I am still travelling! according to your definition.
I think jaxal has implified the whole discussion. If all are in agreement why dont we deal with one point at time. Before we can discuss invidual laws in the Quran why dont we start at the beginning and decide how we, or anyone else for that matter ( I am willing to be educated), are going to implement these laws.
Let us begin with
YOU SAID Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
Above question is so simple that even a simpleton like me can understand it. So come on you very clever intellectuals who find every thing easy please answer in a simple form so people like me can understand.
Regards -
Salaam
Apolgies the full quote isYOU SAID Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
Ok. Show me the verses from the Quran that tell us how we select a head of state.
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SaLaM KGB
Lets stick to the discussion at hand. You made a statment. Now its time to back it up. You said
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
now you said
I can give you the reply to how to select the head of state
Alright. Using ONLY AND ONLY the verses of the Quran, show me and stillearning how we will select the head of state. And remember this is only point 1. There are 2 more to go.
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SaLaM KGB
All i have done is ask you to answer a simple question. There is no reason to be angry about it. Well not as far as i can see. You made a statment. Now all im asking of you is to prove that statment using the Quran. Why should it anger you? If at the moment, you dont have a suitable answer then PLZ take your time in compiling an adequate answer. In anycase, you dont have to answer ME. stillearning also asked the same question. But again, if you belive that at the moment you cannot prove your statment, then no rush. The forum isnt going anywhere. This thread isnt going anywhere. Neither am i D
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Salaam KGB
No more discussion with you. You bring anger in me. I will answer if MQuran ask this question. He will understand what I am saying. You will not understand at all.
Would you answer if I asked you the same question. I will try my best to understand. Obviousouly we cant all be as intelligent as MQuran but I promise I will try my best to undestand as I think it is one of the most crucial question facing followers of the Quran.
regards -
Salaam Alleikum Still Learning
The import point here is to understand the simple concept that Qur'an did not tell us how to elect the head of state by democratic elections. The democratically elected leaders are the biggest SOBs who are liars murderers. Democratically elected leaders of the world have killed millions of innocent people for the sake of power and material gains. Refer to Vietnam War, Korean War, the so called War on Terrorism.
Qur'an tells us that God will place the rulers on us. It is the responsibility of these rulers to implement the God laws on earth. It really doen't matter how the ruler get into power but it becomes his responsibility to implement the laws of God Almighty when they are granted power. All the present rulers have this responsibility. They can't implement the true Qur'anic laws because all the Sharia is corrupted by hearsay and the majority of Sunnis and Shias will turn against anyone who try to speak the truth.
The system of selecting could be improvised once we reach that stage. My understanding is different than MQuran.
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SaLaM KGB
NOW
Qur'an tells us that God will place the rulers on us
BEFORE
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
So which one is it? Is it US who select the head of state or is it God who puts a ruler on earth? roll . Even leaving that aside, who is our ruler now? and if we dont have one, the what the hell are we supposed to do while we wait for the holy highness to arrive? ?
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Salaam KGB
Apolgies as no offence intended but reading your post and mqurans, it would appear that you both have no concept or any understanding how a society, country works or has worked in the past. The vagueness with which you guys write is truly breathtaking. Like jaxal i am too exacerbated with people like you and mquran because you guys bring Islam into disrepute (please dont use this as an excuse to star another discussion on meaning of Islam). The only reason he probably appears short tempered is because has had much longer to put up with so many vague completely illogical points raised by people like yourself.
You guys might know the words of the Quran but from what you write it is patently obvious that you can barely comprehend never mind understand these words.
The number of times the contradictions appear is phenomenal and there is not even a hint of sorry I got that one wrong, but the point is almost ignored as it was not even raised.
I suggest you carefuly put your posts, and those that agree with you, togather and invent a game caleed 'spot the contradictions' it will keep you occupied for considerable length of time. Oh yes! also see if you can actually yourself understand what you have written.
Regards -
Salaam Alleikum Still Learning
The problem with you guys is that you deney the clear verses of Qur'an to stick with the popular sologan Democracy is Good instead of analyzing the system.
No you prove to me why is this so called democratic system is good for the society.
I agree with G. A. Pervaiz following
Quranic Laws
I will ignore the personal comments you made in your lack of understanding of the message.
PS Also read Islamic Constitution by Layth.
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salaam kgb
The problem with you guys is that you deney the clear verses of Qur'an
and which verses these might be? Please educate me.
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Salaam Still Learning
You must change your ID to All Knowing All Wise. Arrogance that all you have inside you which you believe is intelligence. All the idiots I met in life believe the same way like you guys who believe that they know everything.
Study Qur'an yourself. Don't expect to spoon feed you.
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salaam kgb
when you have provided the requested verses.
sologan Democracy is Good instead of analyzing the system
Please state exactly the system you would like in whichever country you live in.
regards -
salaam
and which verses these might be? Please educate me
Is this a very difficult question to understand? please let me know which bit you do not understand and I will try to simplify it.
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SaLaM
Harsh criticism? since when did you all become girlys where a little constructive advice is being seen as harsh criticism?? These are the facts
1] for the last 10 pages, the best anyone could come up with against democracy is "Quran is democratic" . That is about it. no reference. no nothing from the quran. Just the word of mouth. Infact, i believe it was LT who said "Quran is ANTI -DEMOCRATIC. FULL STOP". So far, nothing from him or any of you to back that statment up or prove it.
2] THE SIMPLEST OF QUESTIONS ARE NOT ANSWERED. For example, i asked LT if he will look at the Quran to run a country. I havent got any reply. Its amazing. By the way, this question is open for all of you "quran is anti-democratic" supporters.
3] NO ONE, not me or stillearning, are wanting to put the quran out of the society. Infact, we both look at the Quran for a moral code. For example, no killing, no interest rates. So its not like we are sayign that we create the laws as they come to us in a dream. So far, NO ONE has brought any evidence what so ever that laws can be derieved from the Quran. Infact, i was even questioning the constitution made by progressive-muslims becoz some of the verse reference used there was just wayyyyyyy off.
4] Contradictions. In the case of KGB he blatantly contradicted himself not within a few posts of each other. So even those who say quran is anti democratic dont know why it is democratic. mquran talks about a messenger leading us. He believes Shareef to be the messenger. Im sorry but is that what it has come to? KGB talks about God placing a ruler on us. Again, no answer to the questions raised.
I think its crystal clear that the people who say Quran is anti democratic simply have a problem with democracy. Well... tough. In 10 pages all you could bring is "Quran is anti democratic" or "the messenger will lead us" or "allah places a ruler on us". Even the lashes have been used to prove Quran is anti democratic. Funnily enough, sunnis too share the same belief system as you guys. And we know how well the sunni countries are doing. rotfl rotfl . So if you think THAT is the kind of society God wants then you are on the wrong forum. Infact, i doubt ANY of the "Quran is anti -democratic" supporters even know how the society according to their version of the Quran will be like? Just becoz you dont like democracy, dont mean the Quran is anti democratic. all you "quran is anti-democratic" supporters need to understand.
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salaam jaxal
I dont think its that they dont understand the question. I think its that they dont have an answer.
Sadly I have to agree with you. If it is as such! why not simply accept that you hate democracy or whatever system you wish to dislike why try to justify it by misrepresenting the Quran.
I intensely dislike chelsea f.c. at present but I dont go around quoting the quran to justify my stupid irrational emotions.
In this forum there is often strong criticism of sunnis, shias and other joe bloggs for misrepresenting the Quran, but many seem quite oblivious to the fact that they are doing the same.
The very same people who in one sentence think it is rude to criticise but seem quite happy to use the words like an idiot etc, obviousouly no contradiction here.
regards