Wives of Prophet are our Mothers but he is not our Father?
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Agentxxx
Please try to improve your Arabic. I am giving you the link again this will help you understand Qur'an more accurately. This is how I am learning as well.
Word For Word Translation of Qur'an - emuslim.com
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Peace Agent,
I am not aware of the answer to your first question (regarding the mothers), but as for the 2nd, please note that the law/decree of 2426 was reveled in the Scripture, while the stories of Noah and Pharoah occured before its revelation...Thus I read it as a new law (1,400 years old) rather than one which has been arounf since older times.
You can see similar changes in laws such as fasting (whereby the Quran allows maritial sex at night, whereas the law of God before did not allow this).
P.S. I enjoy reading the way your mind thinks...Mashallah you are turning out some good and provoking questions which may benefit us all (God willing).
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Agentxxx
The verse which is saying that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of men is revelead in connection with Prophet Muhammad (SAW) adopted son wife marriage after he divorce her. The verses are very clear that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was reluctant to marry the wife of his adopted son because the people.
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salam kgb,
thanks for the link, Iwill try to understand Quran in Arabic, even though I dont even know the alphabets of arabic.
Do I assume by your suggestion that all the translations of Quran are incorrect or doubtful ? I have not noticed any difference in urdu or english translations of the verses as yet.
but I will try my best after all you are the KGB and me just an agent
take care. -
Peace
regarding the Mothers of the Believers, the matherhood in the verse is figurative, because Allah honored the women race by chosing the prophet wives to transfer the message first hand as they learnt it from the prophet directly
you will notice that Allah forbids them from marrying again after the prophet departure (they were given the choice to stay with the prophet for that cause or been divorced if they prefer enjoying life), they have been assigned a mission to spread the teaching of the Quran as they received it from their husband , many muslim women and men learnt a lot from the mothers of the believers especially their life were devoted to that cause as Allah ordered them in the Quran
it is like the believers are going to learn a lot from their mothers (figurative)
Allah knows best
peace
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Salaam Alleikum Agentxxx
lol Not forcing you to do anything against your wishes. Yusuf Ali translation which is considered the best translation is not upto mark. I realised that after trying to read and understand Qur'an in Arabic. You can recite Qur'an in Arabic unfortunately I can't. I read word at a time but Allah Taala is helping me to understand the message more clearly.
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Dear Agentxxx
As you may have gathered from others, people at the time of the prophet were told that the his wives are like their mothers, so that they wouldn't get any ideas about them, even after his death, thus the law forbidding marriage to them when they became widows or divorcees.
Any of your men means exactly that. Of course we know Mohammed was the father of many women, but he is not our father in the sense Noah and Adam are. So all those groups who claim to be direct descendents of Mohammed (and thus more worthy than the rest of us) are contradicting the Quran.
Even though Imam Hasan and Hussien were his Grandsons, they would not have got Mohammad's Y chromosome (which would determine lingeage), since it is only passed from father to son (with only slight variations/mutations).
Finally, 2426 referes to what will happen in the after life, 2424/25 sets the context appropriately.
Peace.
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Peace layth,
You wrote
I am not aware of the answer to your first question (regarding the mothers), but as for the 2nd, please note that the law/decree of 2426 was reveled in the Scripture, while the stories of Noah and Pharoah occured before its revelation...Thus I read it as a new law (1,400 years old) rather than one which has been arounf since older times
I think you have a valid point, I have not thought about the time gap. I have my own understanding of this verse also, I think its more of an advice then a law, this verse is laying emphasis on the fact that men impure should stick with women impure and men pure should stick with women pure because only this way they are well matched. I am not sure if my understanding is right or wrong but it seems more logical too me.
You also wroteP.S. I enjoy reading the way your mind thinks...Mashallah you are turning out some good and provoking questions which may benefit us all (God willing).
Layth my friend my intentions are certainly not to provoke or offend anyone, or to hurt anyone?s feelings, I just don?t believe in blind faith anymore and I want logical explanations for verses I cant understand on my own, I want to discuss all such verses so that I may find better answers. If we can scrutinize all the other books that exist, isn?t it then rational to apply the same entire rules to scrutinize Quranic verses also?
kGBYusuf Ali translation which is considered the best translation is not upto mark.
Pal I have english translations of YOUSAF ALI, M PIKTHALL. J.M.RODWEL, PIR SALHUDDIN, these I compare with urdu translations from MOULANA MOUDUDI, MOULANA FATEH MUHAMMAD JALLANDHRI, MOULANA ABUL KALLAM AZAD.
What I have understood from this comparison is that with the passage of time although the translation of verses is more or less similar the ?tafsir? or detailed explanation varies has changed a lot with time.Allah Taala is helping me to understand the message more clearly.
That?s good comrade ) because you can then help others to improve their understanding.
Islamicreform wroteAny of your men means exactly that. Of course we know Mohammed was the father of many women, but he is not our father in the sense Noah and Adam are. So all those groups who claim to be direct descendents of Mohammed (and thus more worthy than the rest of us) are contradicting the Quran.
Even though Imam Hasan and Hussien were his Grandsons, they would not have got Mohammad's Y chromosome (which would determine lingeage), since it is only passed from father to son (with only slight variations/mutations).Peace IR, we are all the decedents of prophets it is not the lineage that makes you more worthy then the rest, it is your character, your deeds, your personal achievements and contributions in a society that make you worthy.
You may be right about this chromosome theory, couple of decades back people were defining it differently because they knew nothing about chromosomes and this is what I meant by saying that the tafsir has changed with the time.
Ir you wroteyou will notice that Allah forbids them from marrying again after the prophet departure (they were given the choice to stay with the prophet for that cause or been divorced if they prefer enjoying life), they have been assigned a mission to spread the teaching of the Quran as they received it from their husband, many muslim women and men learnt a lot from the mothers of the believers especially their life were devoted to that cause as Allah ordered them in the Quran
Would you like to comment, why would the lord of universe take such a keen interest in prophet?s matrimonial and personal affairs? And why would he forbid them to marry? .
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37-Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife and fear Allah." BUT THOU DIDST HIDE IN THY HEART THAT WHICH ALLAH WAS ABOUT TO MAKE MANIFEST thou didst fear the people but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her with the necessary (formality) WE JOINED HER IN MARRIAGE TO THEE IN ORDER THAT (IN FUTURE) THERE MAY BE NO DIFFICULTY TO THE BELIEVERS IN (THE MATTER OF) MARRIAGE WITH THE WIVES OF THEIR ADOPTED SONS when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them and Allah's command must be fulfilled.
This verse indicates that prophet himself was interested to marry zainab.
Were other believers interested in marrying the wives of their adopted sons? Shouldn?t they treat them like their daughters? Thank you Lord for making it easy for us?66- At-Tahrim
3-When the Prophet confided a fact unto one of his wives and when she afterward divulged it and ALLAH APPRISED HIM THEREOF, he made known (to her) part thereof and passed over part. And when he told it her she said WHO HATH TOLD THEE? HE SAID THE KNOWER, THE AWARE HATH TOLD ME.
4-If ye twain turn unto Allah repentant, (ye have cause to do so) for your hearts desired (the ban); and IF YE AID ONE ANOTHER AGAINST HIM (MUHAMMAD) THEN LO! ALLAH, EVEN HE, IS HIS PROTECTING FRIEND, AND GABRIEL AND THE RIGHTEOUS AMONG THE BELIEVERS; AND FURTHERMORE THE ANGELS ARE HIS HELPERS.Was the Lord of the universe spying for his prophet? Did the prophet needed all this help just to handle his wives???
5-It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your stead wives better than you, submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, inclined to fasting, widows and maids.
Were his wives not submissive to Allah, pious etc?
33- Al-Ahzab
33-AND STAY IN YOUR HOUSES. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor due, and obey Allah and His messenger. ALLAH'S WISH IS BUT TO REMOVE UNCLEANNESS FAR FROM YOU, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.
But instead of staying at home our mother Aisha lead an army into a battle that resulted in the death of tens of thousands of Muslims. Allah wishes to remove uncleanness far from them? I thought they were pure?38-There can be no difficulty to the Prophet in what ALLAH HAS INDICATED TO HIM AS A DUTY. It was the practice (approved) of Allah amongst those of old that have passed away and the command of Allah is a decree determined.
So it?s a duty to marry wife of your adopted son? Allah doesn?t want believers to marry prophet wives so he makes them their mothers, but since prophet had to marry other women by Allah?s order he doesn?t make him their father??Take care.
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Salaamun alaikum Agentxxx,
33/6 speaks about An-nabi, not Muhammad per se. Whenever there's a nabi, he's closer to the believers that thier own selves and his wives are our mothers. What do mothers do ?
33/40 speaks about Muhammad. This could refer to the historical Muhammad ibn Abdullah but I doubt it. Its interesting to note the word here 'abaakum' and not 'waliidukum', walid being more of a biological term. To me, this verse refers to the archetypal Muhammad who is said not to be a father figure to the indepedent men of the believers.
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Salaamun alaikum Agentxxx,
thank you for your explanation, but why this difference? would you care to explain it in a little bit more detail please? and are there other verses which refers to the archetypal Muhammad and not the prophet Muhammad?
Well, i think first we need to look at the facts as they are
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al-quraan is about our lives. its not a book of history. the sunna of Allah doesn't change.
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al-quraan never says anything about a NEW book. I think this is because its beyond our scope of deen. We have al-quraan and that's that.
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indeed, the people who say 'these are tales of the ancients' are non-believers.
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muhammad's sunna, i.e. the cosmic laws regarding 'muhammad' must therefore be repeatable and copiable.
Given you accept all of the above, this means that we ourselves need to actualise the muhammad within. i take muhammad to mean one who is in a state of hamd (not praise, hamd is explained in al-quraan itself) and this individual is a nabi, one who recieves higher news and is on a high platform.
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Peace,
33/6 speaks about An-nabi, not Muhammad per se. Whenever there's a nabi, he's closer to the believers that thier own selves and his wives are our mothers. What do mothers do ?
The quran uses some amazing metaphors. I agree with where you're going.
Joe
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Peace agent,
Peace IR, we are all the decedents of prophets it is not the lineage that makes you more worthy then the rest, it is your character, your deeds, your personal achievements and contributions in a society that make you worthy.
We may all be decendants of Adam, but we are not all decendants of Noah (there were others who came with him on the ship)...As for prophethood, that has been restricted to the progeny of Abraham by decree from God (this was God's covenant with Abraham)
"And Abraham was tested by commands from His Lord, which he completed. He said ?I will make you a leader for the people.? He said ?And also from my progeny?? He said ?My pledge will not encompass the wicked.? (The Message 2124)
"And We granted him Isaac and Jacob, and We made within his progeny the prophethood and the Scripture. And We gave him his reward in this world, and in the Hereafter he is among the righteous." (The Message 2927)
Would you like to comment, why would the lord of universe take such a keen interest in prophet?s matrimonial and personal affairs? And why would he forbid them to marry? .
Because the prophet is being set as a living 'role model' for what generations of people can and can't do...Thus it becomes important for God to go into details even though we may think them irrelevant or insignificant
"God does not shy away from citing the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they Say ?What does God want with this example?? He lets many stray by it, and He guides many, but He only lets stray the evildoers. " (The Message 226)
As for forbidding them to marry, I see that as having to do with the mission of the prophet (to deliver the message) and that marrying his wives 'may' be an obstacle in the spreading of the message (to quote an example, the false story of Aisha being married at 8 to the prophet - spread by the Hadithists - has had a considerable impact on stopping and detering many people from even opening the Scripture/Quran).
But instead of staying at home our mother Aisha lead an army into a battle that resulted in the death of tens of thousands of Muslims
If indeed she did, then that is Aisha's choice and she will be held accountable for it (free will still exists in all people).
So it?s a duty to marry wife of your adopted son? Allah doesn?t want believers to marry prophet wives so he makes them their mothers, but since prophet had to marry other women by Allah?s order he doesn?t make him their father??
We are discussing law here? If so, then you should not get emotionally attached to the subject where your opinoin may get in the way...Men are allowed to marry the x-wives of their adopted sons...That is a law and the prophet was a living example who carried it out. Your adopted son is not your real son as he can't even take your name...Thus, for God to wake people-up and remind them that an adopted son is not the same as a son (more like a house guest) He is telling them (and us) that there is no taboo in marrying their divorced wives.
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Peace layth,
You wroteWe may all be decendants of Adam, but we are not all decendants of Noah (there were others who came with him on the ship)...
37 76. And Noah, indeed, did cry unto US, and how excellent Answerer of Prayers are WE !
37 77. And WE saved him and his family from the great distress;
37 78. And WE made his offspring the only survivors.As for prophethood, that has been restricted to the progeny of Abraham by decree from God (this was God's covenant with Abraham)
3524- Lo! We have sent thee with the Truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner; and there is not a nation but a warner hath passed among them.
1636-And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger,
4164.Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;-
According to these verses prophets were raised in every nation, Quran only mentions the Middle Eastern prophets who all were the decedents of Abraham.Because the prophet is being set as a living 'role model' for what generations of people can and can't do...Thus it becomes important for God to go into details even though we may think them irrelevant or insignificant
How much do we know about the life of prophet from Quran? As we here disregard the hadith and sunna books, which book would you suggest me to read for details of prophet?s life?
We are discussing law here? If so, then you should not get emotionally attached to the subject where your opinoin may get in the way...Men are allowed to marry the x-wives of their adopted sons...That is a law and the prophet was a living example who carried it out. Your adopted son is not your real son as he can't even take your name...Thus, for God to wake people-up and remind them that an adopted son is not the same as a son (more like a house guest) He is telling them (and us) that there is no taboo in marrying their divorced wives.
It may be a big issue in Arab culture of that time but has nothing to do with other cultures around the world, I would say it is a regional problem rather then a universal problem.
"God does not shy away from citing the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they Say ?What does God want with this example?? He lets many stray by it, and He guides many, but He only lets stray the evildoers. " (The Message 226)
umm layth my friend do I smell some taunt in that wink any way here are some verses
Sura-7175?Recite unto them the tale of him to whom We gave Our revelations, but he sloughed them off, so Satan overtook him and he became of those who lead astray.
Sura-4336?And he whose sight is dim to the remembrance of the Beneficent, We assign unto him a devil who becometh his comrade;
Sura-3841?Commemorate Our servant Job behold he cried to his Lord "The Evil One has afflicted me with distress and suffering"!
2816.And one day he entered the city at a time when its inhabitants were in a state of heedlessness; and he found therein two men fighting - one of his own party and the other of his enemies. And he who was of his party sought his help against him who was of his enemies. So Moses struck the latter with his fist; and thereby caused his death. Then Moses said, `This is Satan's doing, he is indeed an enemy, a manifest misleader.'
- And thus did we show Abraham the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he should have full knowledge and that he might be of those who possess certainty of faith.
677.And when the night darkened upon him, he saw a star. He said,Can this be my Lord ?' But when it set, he said, I like not those that set.' 678.And when he saw the moon rise with spreading light, he said,Can this be my lord ?' But when it set, he said, `If my Lord guide me not, I shall surely be of the people who go astray.' - And when he saw the sun rise with spreading light, he said,
Can this be my Lord ? This is the greatest.' But when it also set, he said,O my people ! surely I am quit of that which you associate with God;
certainty of faith comes with experience and by learning through your own errors in life.
Take care.
God bless you. - And thus did we show Abraham the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he should have full knowledge and that he might be of those who possess certainty of faith.
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Peace be upon you,
Just thinking out loud here, please bear with me.
The wives of the prophet are our mothers. Since all of us who are not adopted know who are mothers are, we know this is not literal.
The male is considered the YANG, OUTGOING energy. (cause)
The female is the YIN, RECIEVING matter. (effect)
So the message is the "YANG" and what the message forms is the "YIN".
So its like the effect of the message is a mother to us. The effect nourishes us, is devoted to our growth, as a mother is to thier child.
Something like this.
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peace idolfree1,
you wrote
Just thinking out loud here, please bear with me.
The wives of the prophet are our mothers. Since all of us who are not adopted know who are mothers are, we know this is not literal.
absolutely no doubt in that brother. )
the confusion is, then why is the prophet not our father ?
bye -
peace idolfree1,
you wrote
Just thinking out loud here, please bear with me.
The wives of the prophet are our mothers. Since all of us who are not adopted know who are mothers are, we know this is not literal.
absolutely no doubt in that brother.
the confusion is, then why is the prophet not our father ?
byeI guess it is also OK to call the prophets the fathers of the believers as long as it figurative as calling the mothers of the believers,
the incident with Mohammad was a bit diffeent beacause he adopted Zaid and they uded to call Mohammad "Abu Zaid", so the Quran is talking about Mohammad is not the father of any if they will call him this way
the Quran called Mary "The sister of Harun" while they were not brother and sister and Harun was a prophet as well
so I can't see any problem of calling the prophets as the fathers of the believers "figurative"
I think the Quran told us that Ibrahim is our father "figurative", not sure and I have to look for it
peace
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Peace be upon you all,
the confusion is, then why is the prophet not our father ?
Well, we have to look at the verse, it never says that teh "NABI" is not our father, it says that "muhamadun" is not the father of anyone. There is a difference and the word used was not a mistake.
"muhammadun' (the state of hamd) is something that is cultivated , not passed down.
