sex before marriage
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Salaam Sis Amina,
This is a discussion board so if we can't discuss and give our understanding then there will be no discussion.
There are many who quotes verses from Quran in their posts but they also explain their view of that verse, what's wrong with that?
Peace sis Maria
Walaikum asalaam ya ukhti,
I am not suggesting that dialogue is not a wonderful thing...I am just stating that saying "I heard" or "I think" is utterly irrevelent when it comes to stating what is haram or halal or what is prescribed for us or not...it's all found in the text. If people want to back up their point they must back it up with Qur'aanic text and sound, scholarly explinantion...the example of someone in another thread posting something ANTI-prostitution and then saying that he/she believes the Qur'aan supports prostitution is a good example of this being a problem.
As for dialogue and convo I'm all for it...
Insha'Allah your fast is going well and all is good in your life ukhti..
~Amina
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Salaam,
Unfortunately it seems that you're taking what YOU think is a suitable way to find a mate and trying to apply it to the logic of Allah (swt)...dating, as in one man, alone with one woman out together, alone in one of their homes, etc..etc...certainly IS prohibited. Getting to know someone, having them come over to your house with your family there, talking to them in depth, spending time with them in group settings...is not prohibited. You will find countless references to this in the Quran, many ayats saying that non marhem men and woman are to be kept seperate...there are refernces to this over and over and over again...
wa alaikum salam
show me yours and i will show you mine.
2235
"And there is no blame on you respecting that which you speak indirectly in the asking of (such) women in marriage or keep (the proposal) concealed within your minds; Allah knows that you win mention them, but do not give them a promise in secret unless you speak in a lawful manner, and do not confirm the marriage tie until the writing is fulfilled, and know that Allah knows what is in your minds, therefore beware of Him, and know that Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.
dating is allowd, even in secret if it is honest the couple in between. And we should not "confirm" the marriage untill the writing is fullfilled. So if the confirmation is not the wedding (practical part) then what might it be were told not to do, when we date untill we have the legal ground covered?
Fell free to crosscheck with
http//yaqb.lrhazi.com/
and
http//www.studyquran.co.uk (our Wakaz project it would seem)Also, as I stated above "(Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends. ... ? - Al-Ma'idah 55.
Who inserted all those brackets?
Doing this whole "GOD Alone" thing is wonderful...great...but to ignore the fact that knowing arabic, reading arabic, and consulting with Arabic/Qur'aanic scholars in order to fully UNDERSTAND the true ilm of the Qu'raan is negligent at best. Anyone can pick up a paper back, english translation of the "Koran" at their local bookstore and decide what they want it to mean to them, however this does not mean that they are understanding the true intention of the words...
So far all discussion i have seen here regarding the Qur'aan rely heavily on Arab, and word roots. So this is simply not true sister.
Seems to me a lot of folks really just want to be able to live life however they feel like it and call it "Islam" stating that they believe in "GOD Alone"...that's well and good but it doesn't mean that they are living in a way that is truthful or prescribed by the Qur'aan.
The same can be said about following other scriptures than the Qur'aan. that is not living according to Qur'aan either., Nomatter if you read it in English or Arabic
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Salaam Amina and Welcome
dating, as in one man, alone with one woman out together, alone in one of their homes, etc..etc...certainly IS prohibited.
you're the one who puts in the etc. etc.... What do you mean by it ? wink
BTW, people may meet and not do anything prohibited - even when alone!
You also say
many ayats saying that non marhem men and woman are to be kept seperate...there are refernces to this over and over and over again...
Could you give references please ?
Elke
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premarital sex is obviously not permitted. The Islamic dress code take cares of that argument in my opinion. The women are allowed to relaz their behaivior infront of relatives ONLY. If Allah doesnt allow women to attract strange men, how can he allow sex with them. it doesnt make sense. Also, someone said that prostitution is allowed. I think the Ayah he/she mentioned was addressed to men and said that they shouldnt force their daughters into something as lowly as prostitution just for greed. that's what I understand. and of course when it comes down to logic, sex after marriage is a much much better idea than sex before marriage. even with condoms and all.
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Salaam Phoenix1,
Well it isn't so good morally to try all women you like before you get married.
Why then have God allow divorces!?
Peace sis Majidah
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Allah has allowed divorce because of potential abuse. There are many cases where the husbands are abusive, and the wives are unfaithful, or vice versa. Even though divorce is allowed, it cant be done just because your tired of having sex with the same person again and again, or if your just bored. There has to be a very strong reason for breaking up a family.
If Allah had allowed dating, and sex before marriage, then obviously then people would try out partners before finally settling down. This causes several problems, from spread of STDs, to the objectifying of women (because the men would not be satisfied with anyone once they've experienced a very beautiful woman, or know that they can have anyone they want). Marriage also becomes a lot less significant, making divorce common. As you can see, dating can destroy society. -
Salaam,
Yeah I agree with you!!!!
Peace Sis Majidah
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Peace phoenix,
Oh, people use to misunderstand me ?
But it's alright np.
Peace sis Majidah
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Allah has allowed divorce because of potential abuse. There are many cases where the husbands are abusive, and the wives are unfaithful, or vice versa. Even though divorce is allowed, it cant be done just because your tired of having sex with the same person again and again, or if your just bored. There has to be a very strong reason for breaking up a family.
If Allah had allowed dating, and sex before marriage, then obviously then people would try out partners before finally settling down. This causes several problems, from spread of STDs, to the objectifying of women (because the men would not be satisfied with anyone once they've experienced a very beautiful woman, or know that they can have anyone they want). Marriage also becomes a lot less significant, making divorce common. As you can see, dating can destroy society.Salam,
Please don't mix dating with marriage, divorce and sex and STDs. That's downright paranoia and old school thinking. Dating is not just about meeting someone of an opposite gender for lunch/dinner and hoping to let lucky afterwards. We can't be that narrow-minded. Dating is an excellent way to get to know a person, any person of the opposite gender. Just enjoying each others company during a meal or a walk is often a wonderful experience if both parties are able to communicate effectively and efficiently. I won't go into the details of all that. A logical person would know what I'm referring to. Stop thinking that dating is merely related to and linked to romance.
Whether or not Allah allowed this or that, if a person wants to do it out of any reason conjurable, he/she will. He/she is answerable for his/her actions. This is all about individual choice. Not everyone will think alike. If you claim that dating can destroy society, than I also can just say that marriage destroys societies too. Many people I personally know, having "seen" the detrimental effects of marriage, would rather stay single. You have no proof to say that dating destoys society. That's merely your opinion like how this is mine. However, an opinion must be well thought of.
Ask yourself, which is better? Dating someone in the romantic aspect and being with that person eventually after a well-thought decision on both parties' end or marriage amongst both parties who hardly know each other? If you've thought it out like me, I can safely say, both of them have their pros and cons depending on how the individuals act towards each other. So please don't generalize a harmless thing such as dating. Might as well prohibit communication amongst men, lest they become homosexuals. And oh yes, homosexuals and lesbians date romantically too. Cheers.
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Salaam Sayeeth,
You have a very wise and sound way of expalining things
I agree with you and ,Phoenix I must admit that dating aren't a bad thing.
In fact it's very good to learn to know eachother before having sex and then I guess it will feel more good too. I mean more understanding and compassions involved.
So it must be some errors somewhere on how people like muslims see the realationship between male and females.
When you forbid much it will be more fun to do it and people will do things in secret, so it much much better to date in a wise way of course no sexual intercourse but hugs and innocent kisses might be ok after awhile.
Peace Sis Majidah
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the problem with dating is. It usually turns into a sexual relationship which takes us to STDs. I live in the US. here, most people are looking for an attractive person to have sex with. not marry her. marriage is considered oldschool and backward thinking. and it usually means "sleeping with the same guy/girl for the rest of your life."Also, the divorce rate is like 50%. Also, they teach you in health class that having less sexual partners means less chance of getting HIV. And when people date, they usually set their standards too high and end up with no one. Although dating isnt a bad idea, its what it turns into. And its very hard to keep it from turning into that. But i guess its good to get to know a person before you marry them. So dating is alright, as long as its not a sexual relationship like a husband and wife should have.
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Salaam phoenix,
I know what you mean about bad dating yes, I see it everywhere in Sweden too.
But I'm talking about muslims not nonbelievers.
Muslims knows that they can't have sex before get married so they will not take this about dating to misuse this.
If dating will be more common and allowed in muslim societies i guess there will be more happy marriages.
And what is that talking about boring to have same partner!?
It don't have to be boring if a marriage is built on love and understandings not only arranged marriages.I'm against arrange marriages.
Peace Sis Majidah
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salaam
I'm against arrange marriages.
What is an arranged marriage?
Regards -
Hi Stillearning,
''Arranged Marriage'' is where the parents of the bride/ groom choose an ideal partner according to their criteria, for their child to marry. It comes from, ''we(parents) know whats best for u'' attitude. Most often, the person who is going to marry has no or little say in the choice.
Basically the parents of the 'to be bride' and the parents of the 'to be groom' would come into an agreement that their children can/should marry each other.
For eg, my grand dad had not even seen my grand mom before the wedding and had no idea how she looked, or what she was like as a person etc.
My dad and mom had seen each other's photograph before they wed and thats about it.
These days, seeing the selected partners in person is allowed. Some families allow rare telephone conversation as well. But primarily, u dont get to know ur partner before u marry. And the criteria with which the partner has been chosen, is ur parent's criteria and not urs, but its u who will end up with that partner.
To say in short, its a huge gamble, but the children ususally 'give in' even when they dont see sense in it, either due to compulsion(emotional blackmail such as 'we took so much care of u and this is how u repay us by disobeying us' etc ...) or real compulsion(child locked up if the child revoltsand there are death threats, suicide threats, Heart-attacks, collapses etc) or the child gives in coz he/she realises the parents will get hurt if he/she disobeys and hence gives in, for the sake of the love and respect he/she feels for them.This is the custom followed in communities that originated from Indian subcontinent(india, pak, bangladesh) primarily.
PSIn olden days, the marriage deals were made as early as the birth of the child or during infancy. For eg, X & y promise their 2 yr old son in matrimony with 'A & B' s newborn daughter. and this deal would get realised when the child attains menarche when she will be married off to the promised guy.
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Salaam Sister Pm,
Thanks for helping me out D
Yes this is what an arrange marriage is.Very old fashioned indeed and it exists on more places than those you mentioned.
Peace Sis Majidah
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The outcome of arranged marriage is either
- The partners get to know each other after the marriaage, and discover that they are meant for each other and are ideal in all sense( 2% of the time)
- The partners are ok with each other and can get along and so they do(10% of the time) as best as they can, though they dont necessarily love each other.
- The partners are not very compatible but work hard to stay married no matter what happens, coz its wrong to divorce.(38% of the time)
- The partners are absolutely incompatible and the female partner in the marriage absolutely moulds herself to live as he demands, coz marriages are meant to be worked at. After a few yrs in the marriage, she is unhappy, depressed and lives for the sake of her children and obeys every command of her husband.(40% of the time). Basically she looses her original identity completely.
- The partners discover that they are worlds apart and just cant stand each other and hence divorce(10% of the time) and sometimes, there is some adultery/betrayal involved in such cases.
Thats why its a huge Gamble!
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Hi Jaxal,
SaLaM PM
Didnt the same happen to appu from The simpsons?
I understand 'appu' is an indian charachter from simpsons.
Ok, I am guilty here . I have never watched even a single episode of simpsons. Am i missing something good? )
well, cartoons have never caught my interest. Atleast, not yet! -
Hi Sweden Majidah,
Thanks for helping me out
Anyday! )
Very old fashioned indeed and it exists on more places than those you mentioned.
Really? which other countries have this custom? didnt realise it was prevalent elsewhere too.