ARE THERE 13 BILLION ANGELS ON EARTH PRESENTLY?
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salam,
The Quran
5017-And assuredly, WE have created man and WE know what his mind whispers to him, and WE are nearer to him than even his jugular vein.
5018-When the two Recording angels record everything, sitting on his right and on his left;
5019-He utters not a word but there is by him a guardian angel ready to record it,What I want to understand is?
Who are we in verse5017
It is Allah, this is common thing in the arabic and the hebro languages, we use the plurer as a matter of respect, in fact the Queen of England call herself "We"
If God is near than our jugular vein and knows what our mind whispers, Then what are these recording Angels for?
because the recorded book will be given to each one of us to self witness ourselves as stated in the Quran, it is not going to happen by just discussing it verbally, the records will be there for the eye witness
why are they called guardian Angels in verse 5019 but are called recording angels in verse 5018? what are they guarding?
because the angels in general are guarding Allah laws, they are sort of the law enforcers, and consequently they have been assigned jobs, those two guardian angels have a job to records the good and bad deeds for the indviduals, consequently they have been called recording angels
Can they be biased?
they can't, the angels have no freewill and consequently they only do what they ordered to do by Allah, which is to enforce Allah laws, or Guard Allah laws
Did they exist from the beginning or are they created in accordance to the population growth on earth?
they must have existed before the Jinns and humans, but i can't prove this conclusivly, the Quran never talked about when they were created, but the Quran told us the The jinns were created before mankind
The most imporant point is you must believe in the angels as creatures of physical entities to be a real Muslim as stated in the Quran, this metaphor concept is a deception plan by Satan to flaw our belief
The earth has a population of 6.5 billion at present so there must be 13 billions Angels recording our deeds.
peace everyone.yes but there are far more angels than 13 billions, as far as I know from the books I read, the angels are the easiest of creatures for Allah to create and He created billions and billions of them
peace bro
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SaLaM
The brain theory is interesting indeed. Anyway, I've never figured out why does God need angels to do His work. After all, isn't He Omnipotent, All-Wise?
That is a very very interesting question Mustafa. Why DOES God needs Angels to do the work when God is so great?
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The most imporant point is you must believe in the angels as creatures of physical entities to be a real Muslim as stated in the Quran, this metaphor concept is a deception plan by Satan to flaw our belief
So the human ability to reason and to question is Satan's work! lol Nice job he's made. Please, be more remindful of God and less of Iblis. Next thing you know, you'll start sounding and thinking like some medieval priest whose speeches were only about Satan and his schemes. People attended churches just to hear about Hell or the Devil. lol
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Hi ,
The most imporant point is you must believe in the angels as creatures of physical entities to be a real Muslim as stated in the Quran, this metaphor concept is a deception plan by Satan to flaw our belief
So the human ability to reason and to question is Satan's work! lol Nice job he's made. Please, be more remindful of God and less of Iblis. Next thing you know, you'll start sounding and thinking like some medieval priest whose speeches were only about Satan and his schemes. People attended churches just to hear about Hell or the Devil. lol
Thats a good one! rotfl
People do confuse the 'use of reasoning and common sense' with 'being an Effect of Satan's influence'. -
Peace all, AhmedBaqqat
ahmed wrote
The most imporant point is you must believe in the angels as creatures of physical entities to be a real Muslim as stated in the Quran, this metaphor concept is a deception plan by Satan to flaw our beliefAs far as i know - i checked in arabic as well as in the transliteration - the word angels is not found in the verses 50 (17-19). Also, the proposed interpretation does make sense.
Even though i'm with Jaxal when he wonders what's wrong with believing in angels i don't agree with the above statement. BTW, the metaphor concept is also accredited by the quran itself.
Elke
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Peace be upon you Agentxxx,
there is a long process of learning by trail and error, before the eygptians managed to achieve the perfection required to build a pyramid. it was indeed a remakable achievement but i dont think they knew any thing about brain? infact they associated all the workings of brain with the heart.
All I can say is to do the research. Just as one must delve deep into this reading to ge the truth, you must do the same for ancient Kemet(egypt).
Thier philosophy proves over and over with no doubt that they understood WELL the workings of the brain. For example, all of the faculties on the right deal with unification, those on the left deal with seperation, further, they cross over, just like the cadueces of the modern medical symbolism indicating how the right brain controls the left side and vice versa. Also how there are two speech centers in the left brain, etc.
So again, do the research.
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Peace be upon you M Mehdi,
what period of history are you speaking of... because if it has anything to do with the people of Moses
Who were the people of Moses? You have done what no one else can do and prove Moses literally?
... i can say all their learnings of this and that.. the right side and left side.. the east and west... didn't do much... aka they didn't 'know' squat ...
Thanks for your opinion, I disagree based on knowledge.
what is the purpose of building so called great pyrimads if they 'enslaved' a whole people... you know? what do you think?
If you are refering to the biblical story of enslaved "jews", then history does not support that, sorry. But history does support that the greatest thinkers went to Egypt to learn and study. You will have to do more studying in regards to ancient Kemet(the correct name for Egypt).
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Peace be upon you,
What knowledge? heh..heh... you just disagreed and left it at that... ..
Thats correct, I did not provide the knowledge to you. This would require a seperate thread, but I have no interest in discussing that with you. I would suggest you take the initiative to find out more on your own. From time to time you will see me give some evidence in my posts. But from your sacrcastic responses, I cant waste my time at this point.
where is the knowledge? what knowledge? where knowlege? who's knowlege? Do share brotha man if you got it.. right?
Information that is carved into stone and verifyable up to this very day would constitute a knowing (knowledge). Do your homework.
idolfree1 wrote
Who were the people of Moses? You have done what no one else can do and prove Moses literally?please say more... sijjin....
what Muhammad (pboh) Abraham (pboh) Isa (pboh) etc. etc.. etc.. ? is this what you are saying?
please let me know..
I am not sure what your question is, but if you are asking about proof of the listed names, then none can be given. I am not interested in searching for literal proof of them anymore, the guidance is in the message of the stories.
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Peace be upon you,
Deal with it brother, Peace
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Peace be upon you,
(3949) So if harm touched the human he called Us, then if We gave him generously/granted him a blessing/goodness from Us, he said "Surely I got it on knowledge." But it is a test/allurement , and but most of them do not know.
Here is the verse for you brother. What is being said is that Knowledge (knowing) is from the God, but many think that they figured it out on thier own. When the human needs help, the God answers by giving the human knowledge, as opossed to guesses. SCIENCE as oppossed to blind belief. But when the human gets through the tough times, he thinks that knowledge was discovered through his own strength.
How does this apply?
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peace idolfree1,
very interesting discussion between you and mm lol
you wroteAll I can say is to do the research. Just as one must delve deep into this reading to ge the truth, you must do the same for ancient Kemet(egypt).
ok i will do my research about the kemet.please comment on the following verses
552-Those in whose heart is a disease thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them saying "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory or a decision according to His Will. THEN WILL THEY REPENT OF THE THOUGHTS WHICH THEY SECRETLY HARBORED IN THEIR HEARTS.
quran says they secretly harbored the thoughts in their heart instead of brain?
297-Say Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel for HE BRINGS DOWN THE (REVELATION) TO THY HEART by Allah's will a confirmation of what went before and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe.The revalations were send down on prophets heart instead of brain?
1215-So they did take him away and they all agreed to throw him down to the bottom of the well and WE PUT INTO HIS HEART (THIS MESSAGE) "Of a surety thou shalt (one day) tell them the truth of this their affair while they know (thee) not."
again into his heart instead of brain?
3337-Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife and fear Allah." BUT THOU DIDST HIDE IN THY HEART that which Allah was about to make manifest
thou didst hide in thy heart instead of brain?
take care. -
The most imporant point is you must believe in the angels as creatures of physical entities to be a real Muslim as stated in the Quran, this metaphor concept is a deception plan by Satan to flaw our belief
So the human ability to reason and to question is Satan's work! lol Nice job he's made. Please, be more remindful of God and less of Iblis. Next thing you know, you'll start sounding and thinking like some medieval priest whose speeches were only about Satan and his schemes. People attended churches just to hear about Hell or the Devil. lol
thanks for your funny and useless comment
you may raise this issue with Allah as He also talked about Satan a lot in His Quran
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Peace all, AhmedBaqqat
ahmed wrote
The most imporant point is you must believe in the angels as creatures of physical entities to be a real Muslim as stated in the Quran, this metaphor concept is a deception plan by Satan to flaw our beliefAs far as i know - i checked in arabic as well as in the transliteration - the word angels is not found in the verses 50 (17-19). Also, the proposed interpretation does make sense.
Even though i'm with Jaxal when he wonders what's wrong with believing in angels i don't agree with the above statement. BTW, the metaphor concept is also accredited by the quran itself.
Elke
Fine Elka, let's debate this metaphor concept in a new thread slowely, until we find the truth, I know the whole Quran and Arabic very well and I will be very constructive and informative in the debate, please start the thread and I will take it from there
peace
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Peace be upon you Agentxxx,
I think first we need to make sure that we understand the brain is not the same as "mind". The Heart is a symbolism of the will which is the part of you that SEES and DECIDES. It is the part of you that choses direction. Which is interesting since the root word is the same for Qibla(direction/focus). The will/heart is what we call "mind" and is the middle part of the spirit, between the Divine and the Animal.
please comment on the following verses
552-Those in whose heart is a disease thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them saying "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory or a decision according to His Will. THEN WILL THEY REPENT OF THE THOUGHTS WHICH THEY SECRETLY HARBORED IN THEIR HEARTS.
Those with a diseased heart(will) do not understand that they must CHOOSE, so they rely on luck. So they do not DECIDE for themselves, but just follow.
quran says they secretly harbored the thoughts in their heart instead of brain?
The brain sends the signals, it is not the same as "mind" which is symbolized as Heart/Will.
297-Say Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel for HE BRINGS DOWN THE (REVELATION) TO THY HEART by Allah's will a confirmation of what went before and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe.
The revelation comes from the God's will to Mans will(heart), man should CHOOSE based on the God's will, that is the true submission which brings about a peaceful existence.
Lets stop here to realize that the heart is doing just that, it is part of the body, yet has submitted to the Gods will.
To tie this in with Kemetic Philosophy, they used the heart to symbolize the Will. When a person died, thee was the "weighing of the heart" against the feather, a symbol of DIVINE LAW. The heart was suppossed to be light as a feather, meaning that your DECISIONS/CHOICES were not made based on emotion, but instead followed divine law.
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Salam AhmedBahgat,
Peace bro
I'm enjoying reading your posts... if you will please on the matter of the physical and metaphorical... why do you seperate the two?
Thanks bro, I actually put a lot of effort and researchs into it may Allah help us to find the truth
I can't accept the metaphor concept, it will totally make the Quran and Allah as a joke, also Allah well be deceiving us bad, however I'm a logical person, if anyone can convince me with compelling evidences then why not accepting it
but I can not accept something that will make 80% Quran a contradiction
I asked Elka to debate it with me slowely using the Quran only and we can shade more light on this complicated issue, but I'm 100% positive that the Quran will refute it, I just need to look at the evidences they have and I will respond back using the Quran
you said
it can't be a metaphor, and the hands/feet will talk as mentioned in the verse, in fact what will follow will confirm it, it says after that the wrong doers will ask their hands/feets why they beared witness against them?if it is a metaphor then the Quran is not making any sense
why doesn't it make sense for your tounge or hands and feet to speak? first of all does not Allah create anything as He Wills? what would not make sense about that? Allah Says Be and It Is...
Thank you bro, Allah does what He wants regardless we like it or not, aren't we a mere slaves to Him lol
second... at the most base level your body is talking to you all the time.. one just has to listen to it... again at it's most lowest level of speech.. it talks to you when it is sick.. or in pain etc... or even when your are hungry... etc... although this is most basic... it does extend from there... so why would it not make sense for your tounge which is used to make speech.. to speak for 'you' on what you've said.. or your hands which fashion your work.. to speak of what 'you' did... and your feet which take you from one place to another to speak of where 'you' went?
I remember bro that I read a great insight regarding this issue by Mohammad Metwali El Sharawi about 15 years ago, it was so great and convincing, I hope I can find it, it will take me ages to find it actually, but again what you said above makes 100% sense to me
aren't we dealing with a Mighty God lol
or such thoughts and notions of the physical being metaphrical for our own understanding and a Warning that it is all being recorded in Sijjin and Illiyin... metaphor or physical..
the physical and metaphorical aught not to be seperated.. the Highest Spiritual Truths come in the form of Stories and Parables...I might accept the above and I agree that some issues in the Quran are metaphor, but the majotity are physical and for real, that is the clear arabic message as I understood for the last 25 years
peace be on you...
Likewise bro
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
I might accept the above and I agree that some issues in the Quran are metaphor, but the majotity are physical and for real, that is the clear arabic message as I understood for the last 25 years
That is a scary statement brother, dont let your heart be wrapped, but let it soften to recieve wisdom. Sticks just dont turn into snakes, and seas dont split at the touch of a stick.
I can't accept the metaphor concept, it will totally make the Quran and Allah as a joke, also Allah well be deceiving us bad
Are you aware of the verse where the God says It does not shy from citing ANY SIMILITUDE? hmm
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Pecae bro
I might accept the above and I agree that some issues in the Quran are metaphor, but the majotity are physical and for real, that is the clear arabic message as I understood for the last 25 years
That is a scary statement brother, dont let your heart be wrapped, but let it soften to recieve wisdom. Sticks just dont turn into snakes, and seas dont split at the touch of a stick.
Bro sticks do turn into snakes, and the sea was split by the stick, I can actually provide some historical facts regarding the sea, but if the sperm and an egg turn to a sophisticated human, why not the stick turns into snake?
lol , regarding the metaphor concept, I know what I'm talking about, I mean the verses where Allah is telling us "Here is a simlititude",
this will be one of my argument in the debate, that when it is a similititude, Allah will tell us in advance that it is a simlititude
I can't accept the metaphor concept, it will totally make the Quran and Allah as a joke, also Allah well be deceiving us bad
Are you aware of the verse where the God says It does not shy from citing ANY SIMILITUDE? hmm
of course, but can you please tell me what do you think about that verse, I think, it is in sura 2 as far as I remember
Peace be with you
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peace idolfree1,
you wroteThe brain sends the signals, it is not the same as "mind" which is symbolized as Heart/Will.
what good be mind with out a brain? in olden days they believed in the heart theory because they knew nothing about brain or mind. they associated all the qualities of brain and mind with heart, even today when we know heart is just a pump and has nothing to do with our emotions or intellect we still are quoting heart instead of brain, just like we still use horse powers to define the strength of our machines. old habits die hard )
please tell me why does God keeps on using symbolics verses and mushtabihats verses instead of clear verses?
take care. -
Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Bro sticks do turn into snakes, and the sea was split by the stick
You were a WITNESS or are you bearing false witness? (hint guessing is no substitute for the truth)
I can actually provide some historical facts regarding the sea
Please do so, in fact, duplicate it based on those facts. If this info is proven, then why did not someone come to the aid of the Tsunami victims and the people of New Orleans in U.S.? Why didnt someone with those facts bring thier magic stick and hold back the water?
but if the sperm and an egg turn to a sophisticated human, why not the stick turns into snake?
Here's a hint, we can WITNESS the sperm and egg everyday, but when have yuo or ANYONE YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN seen a stick turn into a snake?
regarding the metaphor concept, I know what I'm talking about, I mean the verses where Allah is telling us "Here is a simlititude",
this will be one of my argument in the debate, that when it is a similititude, Allah will tell us in advance that it is a simlititude
Please let me know when this debate starts, I would like to partcicpate. I have been challenged with that position many times and very ready to respond. But I will wait for the debate so as not to disrupt the current topic.
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I can't accept the metaphor concept, it will totally make the Quran and Allah as a joke, also Allah well be deceiving us badidolfree1 wrote
Are you aware of the verse where the God says It does not shy from citing ANY SIMILITUDE?of course, but can you please tell me what do you think about that verse, I think, it is in sura 2 as far as I remember
(226) Surely The God does not (feel) shame that (He) gives/strikes an metaphor/similitude , (of) any a mosquito (and) so what (is) above it, so but those who believed, so they know that it (is) the truth from their Lord, and but those who disbelieved, so they say "What did God want/intend with that (as) an metaphor/similitude?" He misguides with it many, and He guides with it many, and He does not misguide with it except the debauchers .
It is important to learn the difference between believing and knowing, the God intends for us to move from belief to CERTAINTY/KNOWING. The God uses similitudes so that we can relate, and study until we KNOW. The God has no "shame" in using a metaphor.
Basically, everything in life happens the same way on different levels. The ancients said "as above so below", or "on earh as it is in heaven". Just like we have the metaphors for rain giving life to a dead earth, we have revelation giving life to a spiritually dead person, and on and on.