sex before marriage

unknownuser

Hi Sis Taj,

Are you a social worker?

Where did that come from? )
No, sis, am not a social worker.

unknownuser

Salaam LT

Its hard to make some people laugh Jaxal

I yes I do laugh first thing in the morning it gets it over and done with for the rest of the day.

People who laugh by themselves in the morning surely they need to see a shrink wink

Arranged marriages hold because there is a social stigma attached to divorce in these societies...even though those marriages are terrible

Please everyone what is with you guys is this a competetion for who can come up with most cliches and stereotypes.

Oh please don't flatter yourself. Go and study past Victorian attitudes to divorce! And the attitude to divorce in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, India etc...

It might be that people like each other, and their kids, work on their marrages and that is why they hold.

Work on their marriages? Ha ha, yes I have seen many arranged couples worked on their marriages but usually with their fists!!! It is so unfair to live in an abusive and degrading marriage for the sake of the kids. It is best for the kids that these marriages end!

One suggestion by those bamboozled by so called love marriages(sorry jaxal point taken) why not spend a day in the family division of any court>
regards

It is best to LOVE and lost than never to loved at all wink
But you would not know that yet because you are "stilllearning" wink

Regards,

unknownuser

Hi Stillearning,

Please everyone what is with you guys is this a competetion for who can come up with most cliches and stereotypes.
It might be that people like each other, and their kids, work on their marrages and that is why they hold.
One suggestion by those bamboozled by so called love marriages(sorry jaxal point taken) why not spend a day in the family division of any court>

I think u didnt get a very good picture of 'Arranged Marriage'. Nobody is talking of a perfect partner, perfect life etc. (and then again, perfect is a 'relative' term)

And relationship between compatible partners will also need the occassional 'working on' to keep it going. But thats not the whole issue here.

There are people stuck in 'arranged marriage' as they have no choice. If both partners have absolutely nothing in common, where will they start to work on? And if they both give each other nothing but misery, what the whole point of the relationship? But in these societies, divorce is a dirty word, no matter what.

I have read(reported in news every now and then) of girls(mostly in the lower-middle class hindu society in india) who walk out of marriage bravely coz they get physically and mentally abused everyday in their husband's place and the girl's own parents send them back to their husband's house, coz the idea is 'thats where she belongs after marriage, no matter what'. How ridiculous is that!

shamsul-arefin

Hi Stillearning,

Please everyone what is with you guys is this a competetion for who can come up with most cliches and stereotypes.
It might be that people like each other, and their kids, work on their marrages and that is why they hold.
One suggestion by those bamboozled by so called love marriages(sorry jaxal point taken) why not spend a day in the family division of any court>

I think u didnt get a very good picture of 'Arranged Marriage'. Nobody is talking of a perfect partner, perfect life etc. (and then again, perfect is a 'relative' term)

And relationship between compatible partners will also need the occassional 'working on' to keep it going. But thats not the whole issue here.

There are people stuck in 'arranged marriage' as they have no choice. If both partners have absolutely nothing in common, where will they start to work on? And if they both give each other nothing but misery, what the whole point of the relationship? But in these societies, divorce is a dirty word, no matter what.

I have read(reported in news every now and then) of girls(mostly in the lower-middle class hindu society in india) who walk out of marriage bravely coz they get physically and mentally abused everyday in their husband's place and the girl's own parents send them back to their husband's house, coz the idea is 'thats where she belongs after marriage, no matter what'. How ridiculous is that!

Just being qurious....

how do you consider "Arranged marriage" in erms of ethical value ?

shanti(peace)

Jaxal

SaLaM Shamsul and PM and stillearning and LT and all

how do you consider "Arranged marriage" in erms of ethical value ?

I dont think there is any ethical value.

I have read(reported in news every now and then) of girls(mostly in the lower-middle class hindu society in india) who walk out of marriage bravely coz they get physically and mentally abused everyday in their husband's place and the girl's own parents send them back to their husband's house, coz the idea is 'thats where she belongs after marriage, no matter what'. How ridiculous is that!

Same thing in PAkistan to and even in UAE (but very rare). And funny thing is, its the parents from those countries that beleive that love their children the most.

People who laugh by themselves in the morning surely they need to see a shrink

And if they dont.. they become like you LT... old chap wink

It is best to LOVE and lost than never to loved at all

No its not.... old chap wink

One suggestion by those bamboozled by so called love marriages(sorry jaxal point taken) why not spend a day in the family division of any court

Or watch Jerry Springer Show D

unknownuser

People who laugh by themselves in the morning surely they need to see a shrink

And if they dont.. they become like you LT... old chap wink

I can laugh at you quite easily chap!!! morning and noon wink

It is best to LOVE and lost than never to loved at all

No its not.... old chap wink

Young man you need to grow some hair on your pubes to know the truth of that sentence wink

Regards,

Jaxal

SaLaM LT

I can laugh at you quite easily chap!!! morning and noon wink

SEE! SEE! what happens when you dont go to the shrink!... old chap wink

Young man you need to grow some hair on your pubes to know the truth of that sentence wink

Oh i know the truth to that sentence. I see it clearly coz old age hasnt clouded my mind yet.... old chap wink

unknownuser

Hi shamsul-arefin,

Just being qurious....

how do you consider "Arranged marriage" in erms of ethical value ?

Didnt quite get ur question. what do u mean?
Peace!

shamsul-arefin

Hi shamsul-arefin,

Just being qurious....

how do you consider "Arranged marriage" in erms of ethical value ?

Didnt quite get ur question. what do u mean?
Peace!

sorry for not being clear......I mean if you are to judge in a natural way which is the sound and justified by natural law than how would you evaluate the concept of arranged marriage ?

did it get more complicated...?? hehe

shanti(peace)

unknownuser

Hi Shamsul-arefin,

sorry for not being clear......I mean if you are to judge in a natural way which is the sound and justified by natural law than how would you evaluate the concept of arranged marriage ?

did it get more complicated...?? hehe

What natural way? what natural law?
and yeah, now it got all the more obscure P
Sorry.
though i think i have a vague picture of what u r asking, am not very sure.

unknownuser

Hi shamsul-arefin,
Well, if u r trying to ask 'is arranged marriage ethically correct' by natural law(i have no clue what u mean by natural law )

Arranged marriage cant be ethically correct coz

theres an element of coercion by parents
the people getting married have no or little say in the whole deal
the people getting married dont get to know each other before hand, so they have no idea what to expect(ignorance). so, can be called a gamble of life, in short.

I dont see any ethically correct principles involved in it.

NoProgressive

As SAlaam Alaikum,

Arranged marriages are a source for unhappiness and injustice in a person's life. If you're going to commit to one person for the rest of your life (ideally) it better be one you actually love and that loves you back.

Only if one is forced to enter an arranged marriage. You need to understand hte people and the culture to get this concept.... many people look at the idea of having an arrange marriage as good, and manydon't.

For instance. I have an Indian friend. He was born and bred in America. But guess what? When I asked him if he would have an arrange marriage, he didn't rule it out! He was like "I don't know. I'm not sure. Maybe if I wanted to".

salaam

AK85

SaLaM Taj

Ok http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif. I dont agree with you becoz God has given me 2 hands in my time of 'despair'. This goes for women too. So they dont really have an excuse for that. But that is just my opinion. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif

LMAO

DH

anyone know what the exact definition of adultery and fornication according to the quran alone?

Verses 231-6 distinguishes between two types of female that believers can have halal sex with

Those joined to them in marriage
"Right hand possessions"

So it seems that believers can enjoy extramarital sex with number 2. This leaves us with the question of what exactly is a "Right Hand Possession". Can anybody elucidate?

nimnimak_11

Right hand possession is something i'm wanting to spend more time looking at when i find enough time for it.

235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their mates, or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.

I don't see how you can have a zawj and an MMA (those whom your right hands possess) unless legally which would need some kind of permission from your zawj. I mean how can you have a zawj, and not go against your zawj by being intimately engaged with an MMA?

DH

This leaves us with the question of what exactly is a "Right Hand Possession". Can anybody elucidate?

No ideas? The Qur'an itself does in fact seem to supply the answer in verse 3350

O Prophet! Lo! We have made halal to you your wives to whom you have paid their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses of those whom Allah has given you as spoils of war,

Although this statement is addressed specifically to the prophet, it is the only clear definition of "right hand possessions" that I am aware of in the Qur'an ie females whom Allah has given to the Muslims as war booty. Unless someone can come up with a plausible alternative then this must surely be regarded as the proper usage of the term with respect to verse 236.

Any comments?

AlFajr

Right hand possession is something i'm wanting to spend more time looking at when i find enough time for it.

235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their mates, or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.

I don't see how you can have a zawj and an MMA (those whom your right hands possess) unless legally which would need some kind of permission from your zawj. I mean how can you have a zawj, and not go against your zawj by being intimately engaged with an MMA?

Peace
Maybe "keep covered their private parts" is just talking about indecent exposure, not sexual intercourse?

seattletruth

Peace
Maybe "keep covered their private parts" is just talking about indecent exposure, not sexual intercourse?

Yeah, cause we all know what when you have sex it's always with blindfolds on and in pitch black.

afridi220

Yeah, cause we all know what when you have sex it's always with blindfolds on and in pitch black.

That is true ask any Immam if you have doubt !

nimnimak_11

Peace
Maybe "keep covered their private parts" is just talking about indecent exposure, not sexual intercourse?

Peace

Even if we assume this, who would be qualified for such exposure other than the wife?