almalaika # aljinn
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Salaam Ayman,
The only way to explain this overlap is to understand those passages in light of 326 which makes it clear that "mlk" is a status that is given to anyone and taken away from anyone by The God as He wills. Thus, a human can be given the status of a "mlk" (1865-82) and a "jinn" can also be given that status. When the status is taken away then the "jinn" returns to being a regular "jinn
I dont see the word 'mlk' in 18/60-82 ? Can you please point it out?
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Salaam Ayman,
Yes please I'm also curious about this.It is the 1865 you are pointing to!?
Peace Sis Majidah
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Peace MQ and Sis Majidah,
I dont see the word 'mlk' in 18/60-82? Can you please point it out?
Yes please I'm also curious about this.It is the 1865 you are pointing to!?
Thank you for your questions.
The controllers seem to be the only ones who have foreknowledge about the future as clear from 230. The only other instance where there is foreknowledge of the future is in 1880-81. Notice that unlike the other explanations the one in 1880-81 suddenly shifts to the plural. Based on this, one can deduce that it is the controllers that killed the boy and gave the explanation.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Thanks marie for the strongest argument you brought in to believe in the malaika as part of being a true Muslim
for Ayman
Tha malika DO NOT know anything except what Allah told them 232
peace
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Also ayman
i would like to hear your understanding about the story of prophet Yusuf when he entered the room as a servant and the ladies where shocked and said "Ma Haza Ila Malkon Karim",
sure Yusuf was not a controller, he was a servant to the Aziz, so he was described as Malak because of his beauty, not beacuse he was a controller
peace
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Hey Marie
do you know that "Mamlook" , "", means "Slave"? lol
well if we try to understand it according to the root, "Ma La Ka" then we have a big problem in hand
oh dear
glad my tongue was native arabic speaker
peace
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Peace Ahmed,
for Ayman
Tha malika DO NOT know anything except what Allah told them 232
The word used is "3alamtana", which means "taught us" NOT "told us". Big difference. Have you ever heard the proverb about giving someone fish and you feed him for a day but teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime?
From 230-32, we can see that The God taught them how to know the future.
would like to hear your understanding about the story of prophet Yusuf when he entered the room as a servant and the ladies where shocked and said "Ma Haza Ila Malkon Karim",
sure Yusuf was not a controller, he was a servant to the Aziz, so he was described as Malak because of his beauty, not beacuse he was a controller
Thank you for bringing this passage to the discussion. Have you ever asked yourself why it is that usually the more good looking political candidate wins elections? I have read about a study where experiments were done in job interviews. The result was that those with the better appearance but less qualified were perceived as more qualified than less attractive people who had higher qualifications. In the subjective human mind, people associate beauty with power and social status. Obviously, these particular women are not a model of objectivity.
do you know that "Mamlook" , "", means "Slave"?
well if we try to understand it according to the root, "Ma La Ka" then we have a big problem in hand
You really ought to study more about Arabic forms.
In this case, "mlk"/"malk" is of the form "f3l"/fa3l". On the other hand, the word "mmluk" is of the form "mf3ul", which indicates "being done to" as opposed to "doing". It is like "thalm" (unjust) and "mthlum" (one who unjustice was done to).
So your example actually confirms that the meaning of "mlk"/"malk" as controller/owner since its "mf3ul" form means "one who is controlled/owned" (a slave).
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ahmed,
Peace Ayman
for Ayman
Tha malika DO NOT know anything except what Allah told them 232
The word used is "3alamtana", which means "taught us" NOT "told us". Big difference. Have you ever heard the proverb about giving someone fish and you feed him for a day but teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime?
Of course I know the word used is ?Alamtana?, sorry for using the English word, you know that is always expected with translation, but don?t hold it against me, what is between me and you is the Arabic words of the Quran
From 230-32, we can see that The God taught them how to know the future.
there is no such thing, and you need to prove it, I see what you say is nothing but conjecture
would like to hear your understanding about the story of prophet Yusuf when he entered the room as a servant and the ladies where shocked and said "Ma Haza Ila Malkon Karim",
sure Yusuf was not a controller, he was a servant to the Aziz, so he was described as Malak because of his beauty, not beacuse he was a controller
Thank you for bringing this passage to the discussion. Have you ever asked yourself why it is that usually the more good looking political candidate wins elections?
I don?t know really, and I careless to know because I hate politicians pretty or ugly
I have read about a study where experiments were done in job interviews. The result was that those with the better appearance but less qualified were perceived as more qualified than less attractive people who had higher qualifications. In the subjective human mind, people associate beauty with power and social status. Obviously, these particular women are not a model of objectivity.
Thanks for the insight
do you know that "Mamlook" , "", means "Slave"?
well if we try to understand it according to the root, "Ma La Ka" then we have a big problem in hand
You really ought to study more about Arabic forms.
I?m trying, but I was a top Nahaw student would that not be enough?
In this case, "mlk"/"malk" is of the form "f3l"/fa3l". On the other hand, the word "mmluk" is of the form "mf3ul", which indicates "being done to" as opposed to "doing". It is like "thalm" (unjust) and "mthlum" (one who unjustice was done to).
that is what I mean exactly from the same root in arabic we can exctract many words in different forms that even can oppose each other, this way of driving from the root called ?Wazn?
so both Malaika and Mamlook are coming from the same root ?Ma La Ka?,
the Wazn for Mamlook is ?Ma F?Ool?, commonly known
The Wazn of Malaika is ? Fa Aa Lika?, not commonly known which indicate is a pure name given to a creature
So your example actually confirms that the meaning of "mlk"/"malk" as controller/owner since its "mf3ul" form means "one who is controlled/owned" (a slave).
what you say is total misleading, the root of both is Ma La Ka, NOT ?Mlk/Malk?
you are wrong
now let me hear your answer to this
the Quran told us that the angel master of hell is named ?Malik?, how can you explain that?
peace
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Peace brother ayman,
If the malaika are Jinn, how do you understand 3440-41?
- And on the Day when He gathers them all, He will say to the Angels (mala-ikati) Was it you that these people used to worship?
- They will Say Be You glorified. You are our Lord, not them. No, most of them were worshiping the Jinn; most were believers to them.
Do you really think that The God doesn't know who the people used to serve and that He has to ask? No, this passage makes it clear that there is some overlap between the creature of "jinn" and the status of "mlk".
From the verses above, I see that malaika and jinn are distinct.
Notice similar overlap in 2102, which speaks about "mlk" Sulayman and the two controllers ("malakain"). We know from other passages that the "jinn" obeyed Sulayman.
Jinn obeyed Sulayman not all human. In the same verse, we read that the rejecters from them are enemy for the human.
Solomon had soldiers comprising of humans and Jinn and birds (2717) and alshshayateen (I supposse that they are from aljinn) rejected by teaching people magic, and teaching them what was sent down on the two malak in Babylon, Haroot and Maroot, that doesnt make them malaika.
Idem in 4629
4629. And We sent to you a small number of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Quran. So when they arrived there, they said Pay attention. Then, when it was finished, they returned to their people, to warn them.This group of Jinn warned their people with the Reading which is revealed to a human messenger. All what I can say from 2102 and 4629 that there is a link between malaika, jinn and human but they remain distinct.
Salam
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Salaam Ayman,
The controllers seem to be the only ones who have foreknowledge about the future as clear from 230.
Hmm, but they don't know anything except as you quoted 'alamtana' (what you have taught us). Are you saying Allah knows the future and taught them thus?
The only other instance where there is foreknowledge of the future is in 1880-81. Notice that unlike the other explanations the one in 1880-81 suddenly shifts to the plural. Based on this, one can deduce that it is the controllers that killed the boy and gave the explanation.
Ok, i cant deduce that yet, but very well spotted indeed. Faaradna is proof that this guy wasnt acting alone. Cheers for that.
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If the malaika are Jinn,....
May I know What made you say that?
Malaika and Jinn are two different creations,very clearly told in Quran.
We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute!
Malaika Symbols of Good and Jinn Symbol of evil in this particular verse.
From the Quran we also come to know that
Jinns have a free will and may or may not obey Allah, but angels have no free will and always obey Allah. Therefore the question of an angel disobeying Allah does not arise. This further supplements that Iblis was a Jinn and not an angel.therfore we can safely conclude that Jinns are not Malaika's.
Now In Arabia some of the Idols were named and called as Daughter's of Allah also known as Angels, the particular verse you mentioned is talking about these angels.
Similarly in another verse Allah asks from Jesus "did you told them that you are my son" and Jesus replies in negative.Now see in the verse mentioned above "Iblis" is called As "Jinn" by Allah and in the other verse "malaika" calling "Jinn" as being worshipped.
Hope it clears; if not please discuss.
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Peace be upon you Ayman,
So your example actually confirms that the meaning of "mlk"/"malk" as controller/owner since its "mf3ul" form means "one who is controlled/owned" (a slave).
Excellent. I already had the position of malaika as controller, but this really seals the deal.
Also, good spot on the plural in the story of Musa and the teacher.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
look bro, I don't have to show the verses for every thing in life, I'm an educated man and I eat books since I was 8 years old, and there is a group of highly educted writers that gained my trust so I take their words as nothing but a mere historical record
Respected brother, please hold on to the peace. I am not attacking your intellect, I am only asking for verification of the statement you made. If the statement you made was a copy of someone elses statement, please provide thier proof so I can investigate. I build houses on solid foundation, not sandy cliffs, so I cant just accept statements on blind faith, and since I cannot locate the info you gave, I am asking for your help. But please remain patient, please let peace be your mode of operation.
now do you agree that Moses companion was a Nabi or not?, forget the name, ok
No, I do not agree so far, I see no evidence that suggests that he was a prophet, do you have any evidence?
also bro we have to discuss the mathematical miracle of the Quran please
Well, we can try, but honestly I am tired of that topic and it is a waste of time for me. I was heavily into that theory some years ago and was a "19 warrior", until I freed myslef of that trial(fitna).
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And on the Day when He gathers them all, He will say to the malaika Was it you that these people used to give ibadah ?
They will Say Be You glorified. You are our Lord, not them. No, most of them were giving ibadah the jinn; most were believers to them.To understand this verse, we have to understand 3 keywords ibadah , malaika , and jinn.
- ibadah
To give ibadah to Sth = to submit to sth, to serve sth, to worship sth
Cf http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_four_term/t4_ibadah.htm
Cf http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/ibada.htm- malaika
In the general meaning, malaika are entities who possess power.
Cf http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/malaika.htmSince the pagans used to attribute power to Allaat, Manaat and Al-`Uzzah, these idols are sometimes called malaika.
See the usage of malaika in the following verses.
Have you considered Allaat and Al-`Uzzah?
And Manaat, the third one?
Do you have the males, while He has the females?
What a strange distribution!
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.
Or shall the human being have what he wishes?
To God belongs the Hereafter, and the world.
And there are many malaika in heaven, who have no power to intercede, except after God gives permission for whom He wishes and is satisfied with him.
Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter have given the malaika feminine names.
While they had no knowledge about this; they only followed conjecture. And conjecture is no substitute for the truth.Has your Lord preferred for you the males, while He takes the females as malaika ! You are indeed saying a great thing!
So ask them Are the daughters for your Lord, while the sons are for them?
Or did We create the malaika as females while they witnessed?
Indeed, it is out of their falsehood that they Say
The son of God. And they are liars.
Has He chosen the daughters over the sons?
What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
Will you not remember?
Or do you have a clear proof?
Bring forth your scripture, if you are truthful.
And they invented a kinship between Him and the Jinn. But the Jinn know that they will be gathered.And they have made the malaika, who are servants of the Almighty, into females! Have they witnessed their creation? We will record their testimony, and they will be asked.
- Jinn
At many times in the Quran, God uses the word jinn to designate the leaders who have led ordinary people to give ibadah to idols in place of God.
And they made partners with God from among the Jinn, while He had created them. And they invented for Him sons and daughters without them having any knowledge! Be He glorified and far above what they describe.
In this verse, the jinn are said to have invented daughters (the 3 idols) to God. is referring to (see above).
So, in this verse, the jinn are nothing but those religious leaders who have led astray the ordinary people by inventing false gods, false beliefs, and false values.
Cf http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63992#63992
- Back to
And on the Day when He gathers them all, He will say to the malaika (who were falsely called with the feminine names Allaat, Manaat and Al-`Uzzah) Was it you that these people used to serve / worship ?
They will Say Be You glorified. You are our Lord, not them. No, most of them were serving / worshipping the religious leaders ; most were believers to them.The lesson of this verse is that, when people are led astray in false beliefs, they are actually serving the interests of the religious leaders who are deceiving them.
Hope it will help,
Peace
- ibadah
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Peace AB,
Of course I know the word used is ?Alamtana?, sorry for using the English word, you know that is always expected with translation, but don?t hold it against me, what is between me and you is the Arabic words of the Quran
Fair enough. However, for the sake of clarity and since this discussion is in English, try to use the English meaning slosest possible to the Arabic.
there is no such thing, and you need to prove it, I see what you say is nothing but conjecture
Is what they described in 230 not the future?
I?m trying, but I was a top Nahaw student would that not be enough?
Obviously it is not enough. Nahw itself has many errors in its rules and has become mostly useless. Thus, Modern Standard Arabic has largely done away with Nahw.
It is a well known fact that the Tashkil (vocalization marks) were added to the great reading over 300 years after its revelation and this is empirically verified in its extant manuscripts. In fact, even the non-marked text of the great reading does not follow the Nahw invented by the Persian Sibaweh. For example in 569 "sabi'una" should be "sabi'ina" according to Nahw. Another is "moqimin" should be "moqimun" in 4162. In 2177 "sabirin" should be "sabirun". Also. according to Nahw, "yakun" in 359 is in the wrong tense.
Of course, the above is rarely presented in Nahw classes where generally the emphasis is mostly on mindless memorization as opposed to intelligent critical thinking.
that is what I mean exactly from the same root in arabic we can exctract many words in different forms that even can oppose each other, this way of driving from the root called ?Wazn?
so both Malaika and Mamlook are coming from the same root ?Ma La Ka?,
the Wazn for Mamlook is ?Ma F?Ool?, commonly known
The Wazn of Malaika is ? Fa Aa Lika?, not commonly known which indicate is a pure name given to a creature
How could you have been a top Nahw student and make such error? Even my beginning students do not make such errors.
The form (Wazn) of "malaika" CANNOT be "Fa Aa Lika" because the Kaf is part of the root MLK and thus cannot be added to the Wazn. This is emlementary and, like I said, even my beginning second level Arabic students know this.
For your information and for the sake of correcting the falsehood that you are propagating on this forum, the Wazn of "malaika" is "fa3A'ILa" (F 3 A 'I L (t)) NOT "Fa Aa Lika". Notice that in the correct Wazn, the Kaf is gone.
This form (Wazn) is common and one can easily see many examples of it. For instance, the word "tara'ib" in 867 (Wazn fa3A'IL), has the same exact form except it is in the masculine. The feminine adds intensification but doesn't change the meaning.
So your example actually confirms that the meaning of "mlk"/"malk" as controller/owner since its "mf3ul" form means "one who is controlled/owned" (a slave).
what you say is total misleading, the root of both is Ma La Ka, NOT ?Mlk/Malk?
you are wrong
now let me hear your answer to this
the Quran told us that the angel master of hell is named ?Malik?, how can you explain that?Everyone who has properly read even the first chapter of the great reading (Al-Fatiha) knows that the word "malik" is not the proper name of the controller of hell but it is a description. Thus it is used to describe other than the controller of hell. For example, it is used to describe The God in 14 and 326.
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
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Peace MQ,
Hmm, but they don't know anything except as you quoted 'alamtana' (what you have taught us). Are you saying Allah knows the future and taught them thus?
The God doesn't just know the future. He knows all possible futures. He knows the future that will happen had you chose not to write this message and the future that will now happen because you did.
Ok, i cant deduce that yet, but very well spotted indeed. Faaradna is proof that this guy wasnt acting alone. Cheers for that.
Thank you for your kindness brother. I think that more important than spotting something is to try to understand the lesson that The God gives us by it. This is the more difficult part and it takes time.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace brother Kyle,
So your example actually confirms that the meaning of "mlk"/"malk" as controller/owner since its "mf3ul" form means "one who is controlled/owned" (a slave).
Excellent. I already had the position of malaika as controller, but this really seals the deal.
We can both thank Ahmed Bahgat for that )
Also, good spot on the plural in the story of Musa and the teacher.
I think that the lesson learned from this passage is more important. I would be interested in learning your insights about it.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace AB,
Peace
Of course I know the word used is Alamtana, sorry for using the English word, you know that is always expected with translation, but dont hold it against me, what is between me and you is the Arabic words of the Quran
Fair enough. However, for the sake of clarity and since this discussion is in English, try to use the English meaning slosest possible to the Arabic.
I can't promise really, I'm gettin old you know
there is no such thing, and you need to prove it, I see what you say is nothing but conjecture
Is what they described in 230 not the future?
no, because the verse nevers said they know the "Ghaib" and also verse 232 clealy says that they know nothing but what Allah already told them and surely Allah shut them up
Im trying, but I was a top Nahaw student would that not be enough?
Obviously it is not enough. Nahw itself has many errors in its rules and has become mostly useless. Thus, Modern Standard Arabic has largely done away with Nahw.
now you are starting to talk crap, well, it is your opinion I guess
It is a well known fact that the Tashkil (vocalization marks) were added to the great reading over 300 years after its revelation and this is empirically verified in its extant manuscripts. In fact, even the non-marked text of the great reading does not follow the Nahw invented by the Persian Sibaweh. For example in 569 "sabi'una" should be "sabi'ina" according to Nahw. Another is "moqimin" should be "moqimun" in 4162. In 2177 "sabirin" should be "sabirun". Also. according to Nahw, "yakun" in 359 is in the wrong tense.
obviously you are the one that knows nothing abouot Nahaw, all what you mentioned above has been refuted and is 100% gramatically correct according to the Nahaw that you call full of errors, but sorry I don't have time to prove it to you, I did for myself and I'm statisfied with what i found
Of course, the above is rarely presented in Nahw classes where generally the emphasis is mostly on mindless memorization as opposed to intelligent critical thinking.
there is no grammar error in the Quran, I'm 100% positive, but I will classify you that you chose to follow discord, now ikt is not my job to prove that the Quran has no grammar error, it is your job for yourself and you concluded it has, so good luck when you give account
that is what I mean exactly from the same root in arabic we can exctract many words in different forms that even can oppose each other, this way of driving from the root called Wazn
so both Malaika and Mamlook are coming from the same root Ma La Ka,
100%
the Wazn for Mamlook is Ma FOol, commonly known
The Wazn of Malaika is Fa Aa Lika, not commonly known which indicate is a pure name given to a creature
How could you have been a top Nahw student and make such error? Even my beginning students do not make such errors.
well, I'm not immune to errors and when I was a top nahaw student , that was 20 years ago, possibly you were not born then, now I donlt work with Nahaw I work with comuters, bridges, building, tunnels, things that may sound very hard to you
The form (Wazn) of "malaika" CANNOT be "Fa Aa Lika" because the Kaf is part of the root MLK and thus cannot be added to the Wazn. This is emlementary and, like I said, even my beginning second level Arabic students know this.
ok, I accept the mistake and it should be "Fa La I'Aa"
you know I'm getting older, but what is your point?
they both have the same root and I insist on that
For your information and for the sake of correcting the falsehood that you are propagating on this forum, the Wazn of "malaika" is "fa3A'ILa" (F 3 A 'I L (t)) NOT "Fa Aa Lika". Notice that in the correct Wazn, the Kaf is gone.
it seems you are a jerk and not worth talking to prick like you
at least I admit my mistake.
now you have been black listed and the rest of your crap will be ignored
This form (Wazn) is common and one can easily see many examples of it. For instance, the word "tara'ib" in 867 (Wazn fa3A'IL), has the same exact form except it is in the masculine. The feminine adds intensification but doesn't change the meaning.
So your example actually confirms that the meaning of "mlk"/"malk" as controller/owner since its "mf3ul" form means "one who is controlled/owned" (a slave).
what you say is total misleading, the root of both is Ma La Ka, NOT Mlk/Malk
you are wrong
now let me hear your answer to this
the Quran told us that the angel master of hell is named Malik, how can you explain that?Everyone who has properly read even the first chapter of the great reading (Al-Fatiha) knows that the word "malik" is not the proper name of the controller of hell but it is a description. Thus it is used to describe other than the controller of hell. For example, it is used to describe The God in 14 and 326.
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
Ignored
what a prick you are