Quran and evolution, by Mohamed Talbi (in french)
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Sorry, this article is in french...
Maybe I will try to translate it, God willing...
Comment le Coran annonce l'?volution des esp?ces
- 30 octobre 2005- par PAR MOHAMED TALBI*
? Quoi ! Ne m?ditent-ils pas donc le Coran ? S'il venait d'un autre que de Dieu, ils y auraient trouv? des discordances nombreuses ? (Coran. 4 82).
? Quoi ! Ne m?ditent-ils pas donc le Coran ? Ou y a-t-il sur leurs coeurs des cadenas ? ? (Coran. 47 24).
Ceux qui lisent le Coran avec une malveillance pr?con?ue, comme un livre qui g?n?re la violence - Beno?t XVI, aux Journ?es mondiales de la jeunesse ? Cologne, en ao?t 2005, nous a demand? de cesser de terroriser le monde -, n'y comprennent rien. C'est, selon nous, le cas de la plupart des non-musulmans et des d?sislamis?s, qui ne peuvent nous suivre dans notre lecture et notre m?ditation.
L'?volutionnisme a une longue histoire dans la pens?e musulmane. Pour le commentateur et philosophe R?zi (1150-1210), il n'y a aucune incompatibilit? entre le Coran et ces th?ories, ? ? moins qu' ne disent qu'il en est ainsi par la nature m?me des choses ? 1. Plusieurs versets ?voquent en effet l'?volutionnisme, qui n'est pas en contradiction avec la cr?ation2. Si nous avons choisi la sourate Al-Ins?n (? L'Homme ?, n? 76), c'est parce qu'elle constitue un tout centr? sur l'origine de l'homme et son destin.Un po?me en prose rim?e
La sourate Al-Ins?n est un po?me en prose rim?e, en 31 versets r?partis en 4 strophes d'in?gale longueur. Elle d?crit, avec des images emprunt?es au monde sensible, le parcours de l'homme depuis ses d?buts terrestres tr?s modestes jusqu'? sa r?alisation finale dans le monde suprasensible. Jacques Berque3, qui fait exception parmi les traducteurs non musulmans, a ?t? sensible ? sa po?sie. Il ?crit, en note, ? sa traduction de cette sourate ? Stylistiquement, le texte frappe par le cumul entre notations sensibles et concepts abstraits. Au pittoresque des mots rares et imag?s fait pendant la subtilit? dans l'emploi des h?l (appositions d?notant un ?tat) et des copules. ?Premi?re strophe l'hominisation
La sourate commence par cette strophe (rimes ran) qui ?voque les d?buts de ce que nous ne pouvons pas ne pas appeler l'hominisation
? N'est-il pas pass? sur l'homme (Hal at? 'al? al-ins?ni) un long intervalle de temps (h?nun min al-dahri) sans qu'il f?t quelque chose qui p?t ?tre mentionn? (lam yakun shay'an madhk?ran) ? Nous avons cr?? (khalaqn?) l'homme d'une infime gouttelette en m?lange (min nutfatin amsh?jin). Et pour l'?prouver Nous l'avons fait entendant et voyant. Nous l'avons guid? sur la voie ou reconnaissant ; ou ingrat ? (Coran, 76 1-3).
Le terme amsh?j, qui intervient une seule fois dans le Coran, dans le verset cit?, est le pluriel de mash?j, qui signifie tr?s exactement ? m?lange ?. Le Lis?n nous dit qu'il s'emploie en premier lieu pour d?signer un m?lange de couleurs, surtout le rouge et le blanc. Dans l'expression min nutfatin amsh?jin, un singulier suivi d'un pluriel, amsh?jin ne peut ?tre un adjectif qualificatif. Il est un permutatif (badal) de nutfa, d'o? notre traduction qui rend le texte avec une totale exactitude, ce qui n'est le cas dans aucune des traductions courantes.
En somme, la nutfa, l'infime gouttelette qui ?tait commune ? la cr?ation de l'homme et de l'animal - nous savons aujourd'hui qu'il s'agissait du primate auquel il se rattachait -, a subi une permutation pour devenir amsh?j. Et c'est ainsi, ? partir de ces amsh?j, de cette modification qui permuta la nutfa initiale et commune en amsh?j sp?cifiques, que s'op?ra le khalq sp?cifiant de l'homme, sa cr?ation qui en fit une esp?ce nouvelle et ? part.
Nous pensons qu'il est fait allusion dans le Coran, avec beaucoup d'?vidence, ? la modification g?n?tique qui permit ? l'homme d'appara?tre, de se s?parer du primate duquel il descend. Cela, nous dit le Coran, prit un temps immense hin?n min al-dahri. Le mot dahr n'a pas d'?quivalent dans les langues europ?ennes. Il d?signe le temps cosmique, incommensurable.Deuxi?me strophe destin de l'homme
La deuxi?me strophe (v. 4-22, rimes ran, avec quatre lan intercal?s), la plus longue, avec des images po?tiques et ?tincelantes qui vont du sensible au suprasensible et s'adressent ? notre imaginaire dans un rythme vertigineux, ?voque le sort final de l'homme, selon qu'il est sur Terre ? ou reconnaissant ; ou ingrat ?, dans un parcours qui le m?nera de l'existence ?ph?m?re ? l'existence pl?ni?re. ? Si tu vois, l?-bas, tu verras d?lice et vaste Royaut? ? (v. 20).Troisi?me strophe patience
La troisi?me strophe (v. 23-27, rimes lan, avec une ran), s'adresse au Proph?te. ? Nous avons fait descendre sur toi le Coran d'une descente certaine ? (v. 23). Nul doute, en somme, sur ce qui pr?c?de. Le Proph?te, en effet, ne rencontrait qu'incr?dulit?. On lui disait tout ?a n'est que sornettes et ? l?gendes des Anciens ?, as?tir al-Aww?l?n (neuf occurrences dans le Coran). Dans cette strophe, Dieu le confirme dans sa Mission et l'exhorte ? la patience et ? la pri?re.Quatri?me strophe l'?volution n'est pas achev?e
Puis vient la quatri?me strophe (v. 28-31, deux rimes lan et deux man), qui revient sur la cr?ation de l'homme, lui rappelle que l'?volution n'est pas achev?e, et l'avertit que son destin est entre ses mains
? Nous les avons cr??s ; Nous avons fortifi? leur constitution (schadadn? asrahum) ; puis, lorsque Nous le voudrons, Nous changerons leurs morphologies d'un changement total (wa idh? shi'na baddaln? amthal?hum tabd?lan). Ceci est un Rappel. Celui qui le veut se fraie vers Son Seigneur un chemin. Cependant vous ne voulez que dans la mesure o? Dieu veut. Car Dieu est Savant et Sage. Il fait entrer, qui Il veut, dans Sa Mis?ricorde. Quant aux injustes, Il leur a pr?par? un ch?timent douloureux ? (v. 28-31).
La libert? de l'homme, qui est r?elle, et la libert? de Dieu, qui n'est pas moins r?elle, sont li?es. Nous laisserons de c?t? l'?pineux probl?me de la libert? humaine, pr?sent et insoluble dans toutes les th?ologies et toutes les philosophies. Notre int?r?t porte sur le premier verset par lequel commence la strophe, et qui renvoie aux deux premiers versets de la strophe par laquelle commence la sourate. Il y a l? une indication s?re que le centre d'int?r?t dans cette sourate porte sur la cr?ation de l'homme. L'expression wa idh? shi 'n? baddaln? amth?lahum est capitale dans ce verset.
Tous les traducteurs, d?rout?s par les anciens commentateurs, n'ont pu en donner une traduction logique et satisfaisante, conforme au bon sens et ? la grammaire, pourtant tr?s simple. R?gis Blach?re, visiblement embarrass?, a pr?f?r? faire l'impasse sur l'expression, qu'il a tout simplement omise dans sa traduction. Denise Masson traduit ? Nous les avons cr??s ; Nous avons fix? solidement leurs jointures ; mais lorsque Nous le voudrons, Nous les remplacerons par des ?tres semblables. ? Kasimirski traduit ? Si nous voulions, Nous pourrions les remplacer par d'autres hommes. ? Berque ? Or si Nous voulions, Nous remplacerions leurs pareils d'un total remplacement. ? Conscient que cette traduction de amth?luhum par ? leurs pareils ? n'a aucun sens, il ?crit en note ? le membre de phrase donne lieu ? des interpr?tations tr?s diverses ?, et il cite R?zi. Hamidullah ? Quand Nous voulons, cependant, Nous les rempla?ons par de semblables, en remplacement. ? Traduction de M?dinc ? Quand Nous voulons, cependant, Nous les rempla?ons par leurs semblables. ?
L'illogisme de ces traductions est ?vident. D'abord, asr n'a jamais en arabe le sens de ? jointures ?. C'est une invention. En outre, mathal, au pluriel amthal, n'a jamais le sens d' ? hommes ?. Le mathal, c'est l'aspect, la forme d'une chose, ce qui nous a donn? timth?l pour dire statue, ou dans le Coran, au pluriel, pour d?signer les idoles. Ensuite, que signifie remplacer les hommes par d'autres hommes ? ? quoi cela rime-t-il dans le contexte de la sourate ?
Pour arriver ? cette traduction erron?e, il a fallu par ailleurs tordre le coup ? la grammaire d'une fa?on flagrante et grossi?re. Tout arabisant, m?me d?butant, peut s'en rendre compte par lui-m?me. ? Remplacer par ? se dit baddala bi. Or le verbe baddala est construit d'une mani?re transitive avec un compl?ment d'objet direct. Dans le contexte du verset, il n'a pas pour sens ? remplacer ?. Construit sans particule, le verbe baddala signifie changer une chose en une autre, la transformer. Baddaln? amth?lahum ne peut avoir qu'un seul sens Nous changerons leurs formes, leurs aspects, leurs statures. Aucune autre traduction n'est conforme au vocabulaire, au sens des mots et ? la construction grammaticale.
Ainsi, la sourate ? L'Homme ? a annonc? l'?volution des esp?ces. Darwin ne l'aurait pas r?cus?e. Quant aux salafistes, il faut qu'ils revoient leur copie, ? moins qu'ils ne veuillent qu'on leur attribue le prix Nobel de la niaiserie, comme le propose Fouad Laroui (J.A./l'intelligent, n? 2301), qu'il serait alors urgent de cr?er.
Le discours des salafistes est un d?lire de d?pit, de frustration et de mal-?tre dans le monde moderne qui rel?ve de la psychiatrie et de la psychanalyse. Le retour au Coran, lu avec les yeux de la modernit?, est la meilleure th?rapie ?tiologique et fondamentalement curative.1 - R?zi, Tafsir, ?d. du Caire, 1938, tome xxv, pp. 108-109.
2 - Voir Mohamed Talbi et Maurice Bucaille, R?flexions sur le Coran, ?d. Seghers, 1981.
3 - Nous tenons de la bouche de sa femme Giulia qu'il avait demand? que f?t lu sur sa tombe quelques versets du Coran, ce qui fut fait. Mais, de son vivant, il ne s'?tait pas converti officiellement ? l'islam.- Historien et penseur musulman tunisien. Dernier livre paru, Penseur libre en islam, Albin Michel, 2002.
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Google translation. A bit confusing, mind you.
How Coran announces the evolution of the species
- October 30 2005- by BY MOHAMED TALBI *
"What! Don't they thus contemplate Coran? If it came from another that of God there, they would have found discordances many "(Coran. 4 82).
"What! Don't they thus contemplate Coran? Or is there on their hearts of the locks? "(Coran. 47 24).
Those which read Coran with a preconceived ill will, as a book which generates violence - Benoit XVI, at the world Days of youth in Cologne, in August 2005, us required to cease terrorizing the world -, do not include/understand nothing there. It is, according to us, the case of the majority of the not-Moslems and of desislamized, who cannot follow us in our reading and our meditation.
The evolutionism has a long history in the Moslem thought. For the commentator and philosopher R?zi (1150-1210), there is no incompatibility between Coran and these theories, "unless do not say that it is thus by nature even things" 1. Several verses indeed evoke the evolutionism, which is not in contradiction with the cr?ation2. If we chose the sourate Al-Ins?n ("the Man ", n? 76), it is because it constitutes a whole centered on the origin of the man and his destiny.A prose poem rim?e
Sourate Al-Ins?n is a prose poem rim?e, in 31 verses divided into 4 stanzas unequal length. It describes, with images borrowed from the sensitive world, the course of the man from his very modest terrestrial beginnings to its final realization in the suprasensible world. Jacques Berque3, who makes exception among the nonMoslem translators, was sensitive to his poetry. He writes, in note, with his translation of this sourate "Stylistiquement, the text strikes by the office plurality between significant notations and abstract concepts. With picturesque of the rare and picturesque words makes during subtlety in the use of the h?l (affixings indicating a state) and copulas "First stanza the hominisation
The sourate starts with this stanza (rhymes ran) which evokes the beginnings of what we cannot not call the hominisation
"didn't it pass on the man (Hal at? ' al? Al-ins?ni) a long interval of time (h?nun min Al-dahri) without it being something which could be mentioned (lam yakun shay' year madhk?ran)? We created (khalaqn?) the man of a negligible droplet mixes some (min nutfatin amsh?jin). And to test it did We it hearing and seeing. We guided it on the way or grateful; or ungrateful "(Coran, 76 1-3).
The amsh?j term, which intervenes only once in Coran, in the quoted verse, is the plural of mash?j, which means "mixture very exactly". Lis?n says to us that it gets busy initially to indicate a mixture of colors, especially the red and the white. In the expression min nutfatin amsh?jin, a singular followed by a plural, amsh?jin cannot be a qualifying adjective. It is permutatif (badal) of nutfa, from where our translation which returns the text with a total exactitude, which is not the case in any the current translations.
All things considered, the nutfa, the negligible droplet which was common to the creation of the man and of the animal - we let us know today that it was about the primate to which he was attached -, underwent a permutation to become amsh?j. And it is thus, starting from these amsh?j, of this modification which permuted the initial nutfa and commune in amsh?j specific, that took place the specifying khalq of the man, its creation which made a new species of it and with share.
We think that it is referred in Coran, with much obviously, with the genetic modification which made it possible to the man to appear, to separate from the primate of which it goes down. That, tells us Coran, took an immense time hin?n min Al-dahri. The word dahr does not have an equivalent in the European languages. It indicates cosmic, incommensurable time.Second stanza destiny of the man
The second stanza (v. 4-22, rhymes ran, with four lan inserted), longest, with poetic images and ?tincelantes which goes from sensitive to suprasensible and addresses to our imaginary in a vertiginous rate/rhythm, evokes the final fate of the man, according to whether it is on Earth "or grateful; or ungrateful ", in a course which will lead it transitory existence to the plenary existence "If you see, over there, you will see delight and vast Royaut?" (v. 20).Third stanza patience
The third stanza (v. 23-27, rhymes lan, with a ran), is addressed to the Prophet "We reduced on you Coran from an unquestionable descent" (v. 23). No doubt, all things considered, on what precedes. The Prophet, indeed, met only incredulity. One said to him all that is only twaddles and "legends of Old", to as?tir Al-Aww?l?n (nine occurrences in Coran). In this stanza, God confirms it in his Mission and the exhorte with patience and the prayer.Fourth stanza the evolution is not completed
Then the fourth stanza comes (v. 28-31, two rhymes lan and two man), which reconsiders the creation of the man, recalls him that the evolution is not completed, and informs it that its destiny is between its hands
"created We them; We strengthened their constitution (schadadn? asrahum); then, when We want it, We will change their morphologies of a total change (wa idh? shi' Na baddaln? amthal?hum tabd?lan). This is a Recall. That which wants it spawning time towards Its Lord a way. However you want only insofar as God wants. Because God is Erudite and Wise. He inserts, which He wants, in His Mercy. As for unjust, It prepared a painful punishment to them "(v. 28-31).
The freedom of the man, who is real, and the freedom of God, who is not less real, are dependent. We will leave side the thorn-bush problem of human freedom, present and insoluble in all theologies and all philosophies. Our interest relates to the first verse with which the stanza starts, and which returns to the first both verses of the stanza with which the sourate starts. There is a sure indication that the center of interest in this sourate relates to the creation of the man. The expression wa idh? shi ' n? baddaln? amth?lahum is capital in this verse.
All the translators, diverted by the former commentators, could not give of it a translation logical and satisfactory, in conformity with the good direction and grammar, however very simple. Governed Blach?re, obviously embarrassed, preferred to make the dead end on the expression, which it quite simply omitted in its translation. Denise Masson translated "created We them; We fixed their joints firmly; but when We want it, We will replace them by similar beings "translated Kasimirski "If we want, We could replace them by other men" Berque "Gold if We want, We would replace their similar of a total Conscious replacement" that this translation of amth?luhum by "their similar" does not have any direction, he writes in note "the sentence member gives place to very diverse interpretations", and he quotes R?zi. Hamidullah "When We want, however, We replace them by the similar ones, in replacement" Translation of M?dinc "When We want, however, We replace them by their similar"
The inconsistancy of these translations is obvious. Initially, asr never has in Arabic the direction of "joints". It is an invention. Moreover, mathal, in the plural amthal, never has the direction of "men". The mathal, it is the aspect, the shape of a thing, which gave us timth?l for saying statue, or in Coran, in the plural, to indicate the idols. Then, that means to replace the men by other men? With what that rhyme it in the context of the sourate?
To arrive at this erroneous translation, it was in addition necessary to twist the blow with the grammar in an obvious and coarse way. Any Arabist, even beginning, can realize by itself it "To replace by" says baddala Bi. However the verb baddala is built in a transitive way with a direct object. In the context of the verse, it does not have as a direction "to replace". Built without particle, the verb baddala means to change a thing into another, to transform it. Baddaln? amth?lahum can have one smell We will change their forms, their aspects, their statures. No other translation is in conformity with the vocabulary, the words and grammatical construction.
Thus, the sourate "the Man" announced the evolution of the species. Darwin would not have challenged it. As for the salafists, it is necessary that they re-examine their copy, unless they do not want that the Nobel Prize of the silliness is allotted to them, as Fouad Laroui (J.A./l' intelligent, n? 2301) proposes it, that it would be then urgent to create.
The speech of the salafists is one is delirious of spite, frustration and discomfort in the modern world which concerns psychiatry and the psychoanalysis. The return to Coran, read with the eyes of modernity, is the best etiologic and basically curative therapy.1 - R?zi, Tafsir, ?d. of Cairo, 1938, volume xxv, pp. 108-109.
2 - See Mohamed Talbi and Maurice Bucaille, Reflexions on Coran, ?d. Seghers, 1981.
3 - We hold of the mouth of his Giulia wife whom it had asked that was read on its tomb some verses of Coran, which was made. But, of alive sound, it had not converted officially with Islam.- Historian and Tunisian Moslem thinker. Last published book, free Thinker in Islam, Albin Michel, 2002.
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Paix JM
j'ai lu un livre de Mohamed Talbi que j'ai pr?t? et jamais revu... cry
Il portait justement sur lijtihad.
Tu n'aurais pas le titre ? Que je le rach?te.
LK
Here are all the book he has written in french
http//www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books-fr&field-author=Talbi%2C%20Mohamed/403-7802855-5655660It seems that his books have not been translated in english.
Let's read what he has written about the Sunna
Le Coran est authentique, il nen va pas de m?me pour la sunna. Elle a ?t? mise en question d?s sa naissance. Dans un texte, vous avez trois cents hadith (?pisodes rapport?s de la vie du Proph?te), chez al-Bukh?ri vous en avez cinq mille, chez dautres, trente mille. Les musulmans ne sont pas daccord sur la sunna. Cest le cur du probl?me de la r?forme. En vertu de quels crit?res prendre en compte les hadith ? En prenant appui sur la solidit? de la cha?ne de transmission, lisn?d ? Il est aujourdhui clair que cette approche ne permet pas de discerner lauthenticit? dune tradition. Certains hadith se contredisent, dautres sont absurdes. Le crit?re que je propose pour une r?forme, cest le Coran tout hadith en contradiction avec le Coran, avec sa lettre ou avec son esprit, est ? ?carter sans appel. Seul le Coran oblige.
http//www.nawaat.org/portail/article.php3?id_article=176A (poor) translation
The Quran is authentic, but the Sunna is not. It has been questioned since its birth. In a text, you have three hundred hadith (reported stories about of the life of the Prophet), in Al-Bukh?ri you have five thousand ones, in other texts, thirty thousand ones. The Moslems do not agree on the Sunna. It is the core problem of the reform. What criteria should we use to accept the hadith? Should we use the strength of the transmission chain, the isn?d? It is clear today that this approach does not make it possible to certify the authenticity of a tradition. Some hadith are contradicting themselves, some others are absurd. The criterion that I propose for a reform, is the Quran any hadith which is in contradiction with the quran, its letter or its spirit, shall be rejected without hesitation. Only the Quran is binding.
Peace / Paix
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Peace everybody,
Since the text of Mohamed Talbi is very difficult to translate, I have decided to translate the technical parts first.
First stanza the humanization
The surah (76) begins with this stanza (rhymes in ran), which brings up what we should call the humanization.
Has there not come upon man (Hal at? 'al? al-ins?ni) a long period of time (h?nun min al-dahri) without he be a thing worth mentioning (lam yakun shay'an madhk?ran) ? We have created (khalaqn?) the human from a tiny droplet in a mixture (min nutfatin amsh?jin). And in order to test him, we made him hearer and seer. We have guided him upon the way either grateful or ungrateful.(Quran, 761-3)
The term amsh?j which occurs only one time in the Quran, in the (above) quoted verse, is the plural of mash?j, which means very exactly "mixture". The lis?n says us that its primary use is to designate a mixture of colors, mainly the red and the white. In the expression min nutfatin amsh?jin, a singular followed by a plural, amsh?jin cannot be a qualifier. It is a permuter (badal) of nutfa, hence our translation, which render the term with full exactness, whereas it is not the case in any other common translation.
All in all, The nutfa, the tiny droplet which was common the to creation of the human and the animal (we know today that it was the primate to which he was tied) have undergone a permutation to become amsh?j. And thus, from these amsh?j, from this modification which has permuted the initial and common nutfa into specific amsh?j, there has been the khalq specific to the human, his creation in a new and different specie.
We think that the Quran alludes here, very obviously, to the genetic modification which has made possible to the human being to appear, to split up with the primate from which he descends. This, the Quran says, has taken a very long period of time ( hin?n min al-dahri). The word dahr has no equivalent in European languages. It designates the cosmic time, incommensurable.