Is Quran anti- secular?
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HI all,
Please vote in the poll here on the issue
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4495Thank u.
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HI all,
Please vote in the poll here on the issue
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4495
Thank u.I have voted and I voted for SECULAR DEMOCRACY -)
Hey this voting thing - do you think it will catch on? wink
Regards,
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Hi Lotetree,
Hey this voting thing - do you think it will catch on? wink
I think its a better way to get everyone's views coz many do not participate in the forum discussions becoz of the all the nonsense that comes with it etc. Some others prefer reading the discussions than participating.
So, It will be good to know what all people out here, think on the subject, through a poll.I dont know if it will catch up but yeah, I hope many participate so that we can know what everyone's views are.
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Hi Lotetree,
Hey this voting thing - do you think it will catch on? wink
I think its a better way to get everyone's views coz many do not participate in the forum discussions becoz of the all the nonsense that comes with it etc. Some others prefer reading the discussions than participating.
So, It will be good to know what all people out here, think on the subject, through a poll.I dont know if it will catch up but yeah, I hope many participate so that we can know what everyone's views are.
The poll is good...I just tried to make a wider connection of voting and democracy (the debate of this thread -) wink
Regards,
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Please vote in the poll here on the issue
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4495Your initiative is proof of your bias. Look at your wording
'religious legislation in all countries according to the religion of majority'.Is al-quraan promoting a RELIGION?
Devious, PM, real devious.
Al-quraan promotes ad-deen al-islaam , the servitude to Allah alone, through the obedience of his laws. You''re not a muslim unless you submit to His Laws. However, you would ask the approval of al-kuffar before you serve Allah?
Never will al-yahood or an-nasara be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say "The Guidance of God,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against God. (2/120)
Al-quraan predicted your attitude before you even concieved it.
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Shamsul
this discussion is really tiring........I can see that there will be another type of fanatic group emerging in the near future within this God Alone concept.......What an unfair remark. It's ok for you to completely overlook al-quraan in your discourse and when people like myself seek evidence, we're branded as 'fanatics' pejoratively? What's a fanatic anyway ? A guy excessively into his ideology? You don't think Al-quraan warrants this kind of devotion? In that case, I don't think you fit in well with it, dude.
brother mquran...dont be offended pls.....I didnt mention anyones name here...so pls dont take it over you. I have just made a prediction and I am focusing on the mind set..not the Quranic teaching.
If I didnt accept Quran to be guiding book than I wouldnt be in this forum for yearssss........I am just focusing on the pattern which we should be aware of. We should always ask ourselve if we are getting obsessed with something or not. In my opinion Obsession about God is also harmful and can deviat us from sound judgement.
sorry if I offended you...
shanti/peace
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Salaam PM
HI all,
Please vote in the poll here on the issueDangerous indeed this democracy thing might catch on and what might that lead to Choice for the people, better living standards, freedom to practice their faith or lack of it etc. Very dangerous indeed.
Regards -
secular or circular?
?Perhaps its a Spiral? wink
Regards,
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SaLaM stillearning
Dangerous indeed this democracy thing might catch on and what might that lead to Choice for the people, better living standards, freedom to practice their faith or lack of it etc. Very dangerous indeed.
RegardsExactly! This is what Quran advocates. Quran does not says ANYWHERE to use itself to run a country. The quran, quite simply put it, is not capable to be used to run a country.
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Peace.
U are right, Shamsul. I can sense it coming too. And its ''Quran alone'' and not God alone.
I agree. A friend told me something beautiful the other night.
"you dont read God, you feel God"
I still think the messege of the quraan, is wonderful, but the importent thing is our belive in God.
I agree with your friend.. indeed it a beautiful remark..
shanti/peace
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Hello ? How did Shariah come into this? Do you know where you are in cyberspace, friend ?
Sigh..Sunnah, fiqh and all the other made up stuff is DIRECT CONTRADICTION to Quranic Law. Have you actually looked at this or what? It was never meant to 'COMPLETE' the country's constitution but to 'SUBVERT'. Why do you think that NOT A SINGLE element of Sharia law comes from Al-quraan?
I meant the Quran is NOT enough and appropriate for running countries.
Waanzalna ilayka alkitaba bialhaqqi musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina alkitabi wamuhayminan AAalayhi faohkum baynahum bima anzala Allahu wala tattabiAA ahwaahum AAamma jaaka mina alhaqqi likullin jaAAalna minkum shirAAatan waminhajan walaw shaa Allahu lajaAAalakum ommatan wahidatan walakin liyabluwakum feema atakum faistabiqoo alkhayrati ila Allahi marjiAAukum jameeAAan fayunabbi-okum bima kuntum feehi takhtalifoona
538 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
Do you think that if the Quran was revealed in 20th century it would have the same laws for adulters for example, whipping?
We are in the space age buddy, wake up wink
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Do you think that if the Quran was revealed in 20th century it would have the same laws for adulters for example, whipping?
We are in the space age buddy, wake up wink
Khi- Salam. Yes public lashing is the best punishment especially when done today infront of the media so that the whole world could see. That would humiliate the person to an extent that he would never dare do it again. Infact Arnold Schwarzenegger called for a law in california for thieves to stand in the midst of people in the city with a sign board saying "I USED TO STEAL" so yes these rules are perfectly good for space age and even the multi dimensional age if it were to come. The Qurans Law is Univeral unless specified otherwise i.e. if GOD says in Quran like "we forbade FOR THE JEWS..." or "we made the sabbath for the Jews". GOD Bless!
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SaLaM idmkhizar
And what about cutting of hands?
Khi- Salam. Yes but NOT cutting off completely but to mark them. The Quran gives an example in sura 12
When she heard of their gossip, she invited them, prepared for them a comfortable place, and gave each of them a knife. She then said to him, "Enter their room." When they saw him, they so admired him, that they CUT THEIR HANDS.* They said, "Glory be to GOD, this is not a human being; this is an honorable angel."*1231 This is the same word used in 538 regarding the hand of the thief, and the sum of sura and verse numbers (12+31 and 5+3 are the same. Therefore, the thief's hand should be marked, not severed as practiced by the corrupted Islam (see Footnote 53.
The king said, "Bring him to me." When the messenger came to him, he said, "Go back to your lord and ask him to investigate the women who CUT THEIR HANDS. My Lord is fully aware of their schemes."
Mathematical Proof Supports Quranic Justice
The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands* as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
*538 The practice of cutting off the thief's hand, as decreed by the false Muslims, is a satanic practice without Quranic basis. Due to the special importance of this example, God has provided mathematical proof in support of marking the hand of the thief, rather than severing it. Verse 1231 refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they
cut'' their hands. Obviously, they did notcut off'' their hands; nobody can. The sum of sura and verse numbers are the same for 538 and 1231, i.e., 43. It is also the will and mercy of God that this mathematical relationship conforms with the Quran's 19-based code. Nineteen verses after 1231, we see the same word (1250).GOD Bless!
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SaLaM idmkhizar
Do you beleive that had prisons in those days?
Khi- Salam. Yes ofcourse. The same sura 12 i quoted above tells us abt Prophet Joseph having been thrown into prison
She said, "This is the one you blamed me for falling in love with. I did indeed try to seduce him, and he refused. Unless he does what I command him to do, he will surely go to prison, and will be debased."
Two young men were in the prison with him. One of them said, "I saw (in my dream) that I was making wine," and the other said, "I saw myself carrying bread on my head, from which the birds were eating. Inform us of the interpretation of these dreams. We see that you are righteous."
Prisons are very old. GOD Bless! -
SaLaM idmkhizar
And what about cutting of hands?
Khi- Salam. Yes but NOT cutting off completely but to mark them. The Quran gives an example in sura 12
When she heard of their gossip, she invited them, prepared for them a comfortable place, and gave each of them a knife. She then said to him, "Enter their room." When they saw him, they so admired him, that they CUT THEIR HANDS.* They said, "Glory be to GOD, this is not a human being; this is an honorable angel."*1231 This is the same word used in 538 regarding the hand of the thief, and the sum of sura and verse numbers (12+31 and 5+3 are the same. Therefore, the thief's hand should be marked, not severed as practiced by the corrupted Islam (see Footnote 53.
The king said, "Bring him to me." When the messenger came to him, he said, "Go back to your lord and ask him to investigate the women who CUT THEIR HANDS. My Lord is fully aware of their schemes."
Mathematical Proof Supports Quranic Justice
The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands* as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
*538 The practice of cutting off the thief's hand, as decreed by the false Muslims, is a satanic practice without Quranic basis. Due to the special importance of this example, God has provided mathematical proof in support of marking the hand of the thief, rather than severing it. Verse 1231 refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they
cut'' their hands. Obviously, they did notcut off'' their hands; nobody can. The sum of sura and verse numbers are the same for 538 and 1231, i.e., 43. It is also the will and mercy of God that this mathematical relationship conforms with the Quran's 19-based code. Nineteen verses after 1231, we see the same word (1250).GOD Bless!
See how the division between Quranists start. Most of the forum imho (myself inluded) believe that punishment for stealing is NOT marking hands but CUTTING OFF RESOURCES of the thieves.
Now let's imagine that we will have a Quran-only country based on Quranic laws.
Which translation will be enforced?
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See how the division between Quranists start. Most of the forum imho (myself inluded) believe that punishment for stealing is NOT marking hands but CUTTING OFF RESOURCES of the thieves.
Now let's imagine that we will have a Quran-only country based on Quranic laws.
Which translation will be enforced?
Khi- Salam. To simply answer your qs, the translation accepted by the majority would be enforced. But first we'll have to know whether it's Quran-only or "quran-only" for im 99.999999999% sure that 9128&129 do NOT belong to the Quran, thus anyone believing that those two are part opf the Quran are not true Quran Aloners for me and many others. Ok now suppose we have a country ruled by Quran Alone code-19 believers. Again it's the opinion/interpretation of the majority which ultimately dominates though all are taken into consideration and could be accepted at a later stage. This is how it always goes. GOD Bless!
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brother mquran...dont be offended pls.....I didnt mention anyones name here...so pls dont take it over you. I have just made a prediction and I am focusing on the mind set..not the Quranic teaching.
If I didnt accept Quran to be guiding book than I wouldnt be in this forum for yearssss........I am just focusing on the pattern which we should be aware of. We should always ask ourselve if we are getting obsessed with something or not. In my opinion Obsession about God is also harmful and can deviat us from sound judgement.
Shamsul, Im not offended. I just think you're being unfair. But its cool, you have your way, I have mine. I AM fanatical about al-quraan and am happy to be because its from Allah, the only thing in life worth being fanatical about.
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I meant the Quran is NOT enough and appropriate for running countries.
So why did you mention hadith, sunnah and the like ? Do you think how sunnis handle it was CORRECT? If not, why was it worth mentioning?
That's 5/48 not 5/38. And yes, Allah is telling you to judge by His Book. Either you do or you'll be judging according to hawaa, vain desires.
Do you think that if the Quran was revealed in 20th century it would have the same laws for adulters for example, whipping?
We are in the space age buddy, wake up
Yes, that's your OPINION. Do you have textual evidence. 5/48 which you quoted completely overruled you there, 'buddy' )
Also, do you think if you live in the space age, you will lose your essential humanity? Why are human beings still exploiting one another?
Its cool though, if you think the Quran is outdated chuck it out. Be upfront about it. Don't try to be in 2 camps like a hypocrite.
The only person brave enough to admit his kufr to the Quran is Lote Tree. The rest of the democratic camp are nothing but cowards. They never refer to the book and claim that they are muslims. Im still waiting to see ONE verse telling us to refer to the rejectors to establish our deen. One verse....