To Agentxxx, debating the alleged Quran contradictions

[unknownuser]

Hey agentxxx

hope you haven't got bored as we have a lot to talk about rergarding Jesus salvation, so far we could not see a hard and concrete evidence that Jesus is God, let's have a quick look at the Acts

Evidence From Acts of the Apostles
Jesus performed many miraculous wonders, and he without doubt said a lot of wonderful things about himself. Some people use what he said and did as proof that he was God. But his original disciples who lived and walked with him, and were eyewitnesses to what he said and did, never reached this conclusion. The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Throughout this period they never refer to Jesus as God. They continually and consistently use the title God to refer to someone other than Jesus.

Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed the crowd saying

?Men of Israel, listen to this Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited to you by God with miracles, wonders and signs which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know?
(Acts 222)

It was God, therefore, who did the miracles through Jesus to convince people that Jesus was backed by God. Peter did not see the miracles as proof that Jesus is God.

In fact, the way Peter refers to God and to Jesus makes it clear that Jesus is not God. For he always turns the title God away from Jesus. Take the following references for example

?God has raised this Jesus . . .?
(Acts 232)

?God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ?
(Acts 236)

In both passages, the title God is turned away from Jesus. Why? ?if Jesus is God.

To Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said

?God raised up his servant", where the title servant refers to Jesus?
(Acts 326)

This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared

?The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus?
(Acts 313)

Peter must have known that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never spoke of a Triune God. They always spoke of Jehovah (i.e. Yahweh) as the only God. Here, as in Matthew Jesus is the servant of Yahweh

?Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.?
(Matthew 121

If Matthew and Peter are right, then Jesus is not Yahweh, but Yahweh?s servant. This proves that Jesus is not God. The Old Testament repeatedly says that Yahweh is the only God

?I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me I girded thee, though thou hast not known me?
(Isaiah 45 5)

If Yahweh is the name of a triune God, then Jesus is excluded from the Godhead since in that case he would be the servant of the triune God. If, on the other hand, Yahweh is the name of the Father only, then the Father alone is God (since Yahweh alone is God) and Jesus is therefore not God. Either way, Jesus is not God. Peter and Matthew were both right about this.
All of the disciples of Jesus held this view. In Acts we are told that the believers prayed to God saying

?And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is?
(Acts 424)

And it is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, three verses later, they referred to Jesus as

?For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed?
(Acts 427)

If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God?s Messiah. We are told in Acts

?Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah?
(Acts 541]

The Hebrew title Messiah (Christ in Greek) is a human title. It means ?Anointed.?, we see in Isaiah, Cyrus the Persian is called God?s Messiah

?Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;?
(Isaiah 451)

If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like servant and messiah of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who raised Jesus?

Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the authorities, Peter declared

?We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus . . .?
(Acts 529-30)

Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit

?And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them??
(Acts 23)

?Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,??
(Acts 4

?And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.?
(Acts 532)

They were simply teaching what they had learnt from Jesus ? that Jesus was not God but, rather, God?s servant and Messiah.

The Quran confirms that Jesus was the Messiah, and that he was God?s servant

?(And remember ) when the angels said O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him , whose name is the Messiah , Jesus , son of Mary , illustrious in the world and the Hereafter , and one of those brought near ( unto Allah ) .?

?He spake Lo! I am the slave of Allah . He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet ,?

To be continued......

[unknownuser]

Hello mate

Again, so far we could not find one compelling evidence that Jesus was the son of god, my fellow Christain friends say that Jesus was called the son of God in the Bible, but the problem here my friend that not just Jesus was called as such but many others, this is like the sister of Aaron alleged contradiction we discussed bro, our Chrisitain brothers and sisters took what the Quran said about Mary as the sister of Aaron to be blood relation as they took what the Bible said about Jesus as if he is the bilogical son of our God, well, they have been cornered because here is what the Bible said about others and they need to kindly explain why they don't take the following as blood relationship

Jesus was calling his disciples as his children

?Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.?

Would that mean the disciples are also gods?. Because they were described as the children of Jesus ?the son of god?

In another location in John?s Gospel we see Jesus telling the Jews, that Satan is their father

?Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own for he is a liar, and the father of it.?

Would that mean all the Jews are the sons of the devil ?Satan?. And just appearing in a human form as the son of god Jesus did ?

In Luke, we read that Adam was the son of god

?Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.?

Would that mean Adam is exactly like Jesus and both are sons of god and consequently gods?

In Mark describing the leader who cried then died as the son of god

?And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.?

Would that mean that this human also is like Jesus, i.e. another son of god?

However we see Luke talking about the same man but instead of describing him as son of god, Luke described him as ?Certainly this was a righteous man.?

?Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.?

You see mate, Surely during this period of history, ?the son of god? really meant ?a righteous man?

To be continued.....

[unknownuser]

Hello bro

I'm sorry about the masses but believe me it is what you need to read and all very well supported and presented so it is not going to be boring to read.

Let's continue the refute. Jesus Christ teaching is quit substantial, but his short life and the immaturity of his people prevented him from completing the mission on which he had been sent into the world. It is also possible that his mission was by necessity of a limited nature, to pave the way for what was to come. Under either circumstances he had to confess, and that is how it has started

?I had many things to say to you, but you can not bear them now bear them now. When the Spirit comes, he will guide you into the truth?

The Gospel according to John reports the following part of speech which jesus made to his disciples during the Last Supper.

(5) ?But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you asks me, 'Where are you going?'?

(6) ?But because I told you this, grief has filled your hearts.?

(7) ?But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.?

( ?And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and condemnation?

(9) ?sin, because they do not believe in me;?

(10) ?righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;?

(11) ?condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.?

(12) "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.?

(13) But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.?

(14) ?He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.?

(15) ?Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.?

By this Jesus is informing his disciples that he is about to leave the world, that he has not accomplished his mission, but that another will come after him to teach the whole truth. That other one is called by various names according to the various versions of the Bible. The RSV calls him Counselor. King James version calls him Comforter. Whatever the title, the ?Counselor? was described by Jesus as the person who

A) would come after him
B) would convince the world of sin and righteousness and judgement
C) would guide mankind into all the truth
D) would not speak on his own authority, but whatever he would hear he would speak
E) would prophecy
F) would glorify Jesus Christ

Let?s examine this prophecy of Jesus as reported by John?s Gospel without any preconceived notions, and with perfect objectivity.

Many Christians with minds fully indoctrinated by Church authorities take it for granted that the prophecy refers to the holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit, and the third person of the ever blessed incomprehensible Trinity. This belief is strengthened by the parenthetical insertion of the title ?the Holy Spirit? after ?Counselor? in John 1425. With the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying as the editors of the RSV Bible admit, it is easy to imagine the interpolation of such title as the Holy Spirit, either as an explanation believed by the original writer, or by any of the numerous manuscript copyist down the centuries as likely intention of Christ. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is one that is believed to have filled the disciples of Jesus and after them the Church authorities, generation after generation until today. What the Church does and says is claimed to be through the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as prophesied by Jesus in the above quoted passage from John?s Gospel

Since Christianity is divided into countless contradictory Churches or sects, it is difficult to see which one of them is the Holy Spirit working. Every one of these Churches claims that it alone is the true inheritor of the church alleged to have been established by Christ when he called Peter ?The rock on which he built his Church. Each Church has fundamental differences with other Churches. Even within the same church, say the Roman Catholic Church, the best organized and most monolithic of them all, we find different and contradictory doctrines an commandments issuing at different periods. Men and women who at one historic period have been excommunicated, condemned and even burnt at the stake, have by the same infallible Holy church been not only reinstated, but also canonized as saints, at other historic periods. The history of Christendom is full of such examples. And all this time we are to believe that the Holy Spirit, who according to Church teaching is God who never errs, is guiding all these conflicting men who issue conflicting doctrines and rulings through the centuries.

The ?Counselor?, Jesus said, would speak on God?s authority and not on his own, That statement alone is enough to demolish the theory that the prophecy refers to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, according to the Christian teaching is God. He could not only be said to be speaking on an authority not his own. This could only be said of mortal man, a man inspired, a prophet. That man would bring clear teachings as to sin, righteousness and judgment. His teachings must be clear and precise, and should be on a permanent record which is not subject to interpolation or change, so that all differences that might arise down the centuries could be resolved by reference to that impeccable record.

Finally, Jesus said, the Counselor would glorify him. Since the departure of Christ from mortal life, it is a historical fact that no one has appeared in any part of the globe who so closely fits expect the Prophet Mohammad. It is he who has claimed, and indeed has achieved, the completion of the mission of Jesus and all previous prophets. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him ?The most successful of all prophets?. It is he who has convinced the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. It is he who has guided us into all the truth ? for he is the Spirit of the Truth. Indeed even as a youth before he became aware of his future mission he was known by his fellow citizens of pagan Mecca as Al-Amin, i.e. the Truthful. As an elderly man of over sixty, three months before his death, having completed his God-given task he told the assembled multitude, now all Muslims, quoting Allah?s words (for he spoke not on his own authority)

??..This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?

...

Having guided the whole world into all the truth he recited Allah?s own words

?And say "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.?

(81)

To be continued.....

[unknownuser]

Peace

Let's continue bro, we have a lot to go through to refute this lie about Jesus

Jesus said that he had not said all that he wanted to say, but that he that was to come would do so and complete the work. The teachings of Mohammad on sin, on righteousness and on Judgment are embodied in the Quran, a book that is unique in the world in its purity, lack of contradictions and in its inimitability. Since its revelation to the illiterate Mohammad 1425 years ago not one word has changed, and it will not change, by the grace of Allah who is guarding it from the human corruption till the day of Judgment.

Sir William Muir, a well-known critic of Islam, wrote in his book The Life of Mohamet

?There is probably in the world no other book which has remained twelve centuries with so pure a text?

and since Sir William Muir, wrote this another 225 years have rolled by and the truth has remained unchanged and pure as it was from day one of its complete revelation.

With regard to the Bible, however, there is not and can not be consistency, for the Bible is not one book but a collection of many books some Christians prefers specific gospels to the others, the Bible also written by numerous writers, many of whom are not even known. There is even disagreement among Christian Churches as to the books which are accepted as canonical i.e. authorized by church elders as to have been inspired, not revealed as the Quran was. The writing even in a single book may be contradictory, as noted in the conversion of Paul as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles.

Hugh Schonfield wrote in his book Those Incredible Christian

?Within the covers of the Bile we can meet with forgeries, manipulations and deliberate inventions just as much as outside it. Scholarship is well aware of this; but when a biblical work, especially in the New Testament, is evidently not by the person claiming to be the author everything is done to avid using the word forgery. The same is true of the sayings attributed to Jesus and known not to be genuine. We speak of such books as someone of the Pauline or Petrine school thought, of changed or invented sayings as ?secondary?. If we did not employ evasions it would appear that the Holy Spirit was an accessory of fraud.?

?It is on record, however, that down to the final determination of the canon of Scripture some of the books which are in the Bible were disputed. It was argued by quite orthodox Christians of the early centuries that certain books were not genuine productions of the apostolic authors by whom they purported to have been written. Occasionally the forger?s name was suggested. Paul mentions that in his own lifetime false letters in his name were in circulation. What had to be suited was what deemed to be the interests of the Church. Considerations having nothing to do with truthfulness were at work in the slant given to compositions and in the sentiments contrary to their own attitudes which various persons of note were made to express. All this kind of thing was a commonplace of the propaganda of antiquity, and what we have to appreciate is that it was a commonplace for the early Christians as well. This was the way the game of promotion and indoctrination was played. For those without scruples, who believe that ends justify means, it is so still?

The original or the books of the Bible are absent and unknown, hence the numerous versions. Admittedly the books as at present available are the works of ordinary human writers. However, some words or a divine origin may be discernible. But so mixed are these and so much interpolation has taken place that it is now almost impossible to tell the divine from the human. You cannot tell with any degree of probability which is the word of God and which is the word of a mere human who had a particular school to uphold or a particular axe to grind. Not so the Quran. Every word is Allah?s own. It is a direct speech as revealed, not just inspired, to the Prophet, and exactly as the prophet recited it straight away and faithfully scribes put down immediately and plenty others memorized it.

A Christian Dr. John B. Taylor, Reader in Islamic Studies in the Selly Oak Collages, Birmingham writes in his book Thinking About Islam

?We have established that Muslims do not speak of Mohammad?s writing that Quran, but of his receiving and reciting it. Just as Mohammad himself was conscious of the very special character of the Quranic text, so those Muslims after him took pains t preserve with complete accuracy all the fragments of the Quran. Only two years after Mohammad?s death, with the further loss in battle of those who had already memorized the Quran, the various fragments were collected??.?

?A few years later, in the reign of Uthman, the Third caliph, a final check was made on the text of the Quran. We can tell how careful and scrupulous the early Muslims were by the fact that even variations in pronunciations from one part from the Muslim world to another were disapproved of in the context of reciting the Quran; and so the official text was established in accordance with the dialect of Mecca, and most other versions were destroyed by command of Uthman. Thus we can feel confident the test which was established within a few years of the prophet death?

Those are the view of the Christian critic of Islam. The Quran is the unsullied word of Allah. That is what Jesus meant when he said of him who was to come

?He will not speak on his authority, but whatever he hears he will speak.?

Jesus was insulted not only by his avowed enemies, the Jews, but also unwittingly by those who considered themselves his followers. The Jews accused him of being a child born out of wedlock, and a charlatan. To prove that he was accursed they endeavored to cause his death by crucifixion, a mode of execution considered by them to be damnatory to the soul of the victim. Please see Deuteronomy 21.22.23. They denied that he was their Messiah.

The Christians in their part, in their over zeal, and deluded by subtle wolves in sheep?s clothing, swallowed the teachings of Mithraism, Greek mythology and other contemporary Mediterranean cults, and placed Jesus on the pedestal of a pagan god. Jesus who was the son of man, Ben Adam, as he was fond of calling himself, a Prophet and a servant of God, was debased into a pseudo polytheistic god, and became surrounded with legends of propitiation by blood, legends which were current at the time within the cults of Osiris, Attis Adonis and Mithra. There was nothing new in a god begetting a son. There was nothing new in a ?holy trinity.? There was nothing new in the salvation by blood. All these doctrines were prevalent in the pagan cults in the eastern Mediterranean region before the coming of Jesus Christ and during his lifetime. What was new, strange and revolting was to graft these myths on the very man who came to abolish them.

Death on the cross
It was prophet Mohammad who came and glorified Jesus. He countered the accusations of the Jews, and tore down the pagan trappings with which Jesus was no more illegitimate than Adam, His mother Mary, whom the Jews castigated as a prostitute was given a place of greater honor in the Quran than the Christian Bible. To a people who believed in the creation of Adam with neither father nor mother why should it be difficult to believe in the creation of Jesus without a father?

?God is able from these stones to raise up the children of Abraham?

To the hostile Jews Mohammad confirmed that Jesus was the Christ foretold in the Jews own scripture. He taught that the Jews were speaking an untruth when they claimed to have inflicted an ignoble death on Jesus by hanging him on a cross

(157)?That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-?

(15 ?Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-?

(159) ?And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-?

(157)
(15
(159)

And to the Christians, a warning to repent which is a mercy for them, was revealed to stop their excesses in their religion

(171) ?O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is one Allah Glory be to Him (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.?

(172) ?Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).?

(171)
(172)

Modern Biblical research proves this Quranic truth. It is known that there are other Gospels which have different versions of Christ?s passion from that narrated in the four canonical Gospels. The other Gospels were not approved officially by the Church when the Bible was compiles towards the end of the second century. Lately new light has been cast on the beliefs of the early Christians by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, These early Christians knows as Nasoreans or Nazarenes (which tallies with the Quranic name for the follower of Jesus ?Nassara?) were predominant to start with.. The Nazarenes who claimed descent from Jesus?s first disciples came into conflict with Pauline Christians (who follow Paul) and were driven out of Palestine into Syria around 62 AD. The Nazarenes regarded Jesus as a great prophet and righteous man. They accused Paul of heretically substituting Roman customs for the authentic teachings of Jesus and proclaiming him to be God. They refused to celebrate Christmas which they regarded as a pagan feast.

The version of Christ?s Passion contained in the manuscript is that Judas tricked the Jews by substituting another man in place of Jesus. This other man vehemently denied before Herod and Pilate the charge that he claimed to be the Messiah (Christ). According to this version is was Herod, and not Pilat, who took a basin of water and washed his hands of the accused man?s blood to show that he did not find any guilt in him. Then Herod locked up the supposed Jesus for the night; but the next morning he was seized upon by the Jesus who tortured him and ultimately crucified him.

This version of the story of crucifixion makes the pathetic lamentations attributed by canonical Gospels to Jesus on the cross more sensible. For an ordinary unknown man to behave in such a way is excusable. But for the man of God to declare at the time of trial, or even for a leader of a people with guts in him, to cry out aloud in front of a crowd

?My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me??

is to set the least below dignity of a leader.

If the crucified man was Jesus, and if Jesus was God who knew that He had come down to earth in order to be crucified for the sins of humanity, the absurdity would be shattering.

Upton Sinclair wrote in his book A Personal Jesus

?You perceive that those who tell the story cannot make up their mind whether Jesus is God or whether he is man. Truly it is a difficult problem, once you admit such thing as a possibility that God may take on form of a man and come down to earth. When he becomes man, is He man or is He still God? And how can He be betrayed, when He knows He is going to be betrayed? The legend never answers clearly for basically it is an absurdity and there can be no answer, nor even any rational thought on such subject.?

?If Jesus is God, He knows everything in advance. But in that case the procedure means nothing to Him, He is like an actor going through a role, and it must have been a rather tedious role to Omniscience. Is He doing it for the entertainment of children? If so, why not encourage the children to grow up mentally and face the truth? On the other hand, if he is a man and has the mind of a man, then he no longer knows the truth, he no longer posses the comfort of omniscience. The legend requires that we shall believe both these things at the same time; but manifestly, a man cannot know something and at the same time grop half-blindly as we human beings are doing all through our lives.?

The riddle which perplexes honest intelligent readers of the Gospels like Upton Sinclair is resolved by the Nasorean version of the story of crucifixion. By that version Jesus is absolved from cowardice, fickleness and shallowness of faith in God as shamefully and cowardly demonstrated by the crucified man. The fickleness and detection of the disciples as reported in the Gospels also fall into position if we take it that the crucified man was not their Messiah. The disciples are therefore cleared from the charges of cowardice, treachery, falsehood and lack of faith in their leader at the most critical time. The man they sold, denied or doubted was truly unknown to them. He was not their Master.

The ?apocryphal? (hidden Gospel of Barnabas reports that it was Judas who was crucified in the place of Jesus, and the Basildon sect of the early Christians believed that it was Simon the Cyrene who was crucified, not Jesus. According to all three synoptic Gospels it was this man who made to carry the cross for Jesus. Only John makes Jesus carry his cross. This is a significant point.

Other scholars basing their research on the canonical Gospels have different versions of the crucifixion. One such is Biblical scholar Dr. Hugh Scohnfield. who has forwarded his findings in his highly controversial book The Passover Plot. He maintains that it was Jesus who was nailed on the cross, but that he did not die there; he only appeared dead by taking a drug which is described in Matthew?s Gospel as vinegar.

To be continued.....

[unknownuser]

Hello mate

Let's see how Mohammad glorified Jesus peace be upon them. which confirms John passages prophecy about the Comforter

Jesus in the Glorious Quran
The Quran tells us a lot of wonderful things about Jesus. As a result, believers in the Quran love Jesus, honour him, and believe in him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus equal to the belief in Mohammad, peace be upon them.

The Quran says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God?s leave, and that he raised the dead by God?s leave.

What then is the significance of these miracles? First, the virgin birth. God demonstrates his power to create in every way. God created everyone we know from a man and a woman. But how about Adam, on whom be peace? God created him from neither a man nor a woman. And Eve from only a man, but not a woman. And, finally, to complete the picture, God created Jesus from a woman, but not a man.

What about the other miracles? These were to show that Jesus was not acting on his own behalf, but that he was backed by God. The Quran specifies that these miracles were performed by God?s leave. This may be compared to the Book of Acts in the Bible, chapter 2, verse 22, where it says that the miracles were done by God to show that he approved of Jesus.

Also, note that Jesus himself is recorded in the Gospel of John to have said

?I can do nothing of my own authority?
(John ;530)

The miracles, therefore, were done not by his own authority, but by God?s authority.
What did Jesus teach? The Quran tells us that Jesus came to teach the same basic message which was taught by previous prophets from God?that we must shun every false god and worship only the one true God.

Jesus taught that he is the servant and messenger of that one true God, the God of Abraham. These Quranic teachings can be compared with the Bible ( Mark 1018; Matthew 2639; John 1428, 173, and 2017) where Jesus teaches that the one he worshipped is the only true God. See also Matthew 1218; Acts 313, and 427 where we find that his disciples knew him as Servant of God.

The Quran tells us that some of the Israelites rejected Jesus, and conspired to kill him, but Allah (God) rescued Jesus and raised him to Himself. Allah will cause Jesus to descend again, at which time Jesus will confirm his true teachings and everyone will believe in him as he is and as the Quran teaches about him.

Jesus is the Messiah. He is a word from Allah, and a spirit from Him. He is honoured in this world and in the hereafter, and he is one of those brought nearest to Allah.

Jesus was a man who spoke the truth which he heard from God. This can be compared with the Gospel According to John where Jesus says to the Israelites

?You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God?
(John 840)

Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. When the angels announced to Mary (peace be upon her) about Allah?s promise that she will have a son, she was surprised, since she was a virgin. ?How can this be?? she thought. She was reminded that it is easy for Allah to create whatever he wills.

?She said My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only Be! and it is.?

It is not difficult for Allah to do anything he wants. He can create a child with both human parents or only one. No miracle is beyond His power. After all, He had created Adam (peace be upon him) from neither a man nor a woman. He created the rest of us from both man and woman. What is so hard if Allah decides to create a human being from a woman only? He only commands ?Be!? and it occurs.

Some people think that since Jesus, peace be upon him, had no human father then God must be his father. The Quran rejects this view. The position of Jesus with Allah is comparable to the position of Adam with Allah. Just because Adam had no human parent does not mean we should call him the Son of God.

?Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him Be! and he is.?

According to the Quran, everyone except Allah are His servants.

?And they say the Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a Son. Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall to ruins, that ye ascribe to the Beneficent a son, when it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should chose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.?

According to the Quran, Jesus, on whom be peace, performed the following miracles by Allah?s leave

1. Spoke while he was only a baby.
2. Healed those born blind.
3. Healed the lepers.
4. Revived the dead.
5. Breathed life into a bird made of clay.

In the Quran Allah quotes Jesus, peace be upon him, as saying

?Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah?s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah?s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.?

Again, in the Quran Allah tells us about the situation on the Day of Judgement

?In the day when Allah gathers together the messengers and says What was your response (from mankind)? they say We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden. When Allah says O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto you and unto your mother; how I strengthened you with the holy Spirit, so that you spoke unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught you the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how you did shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and did blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and you did heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission . . .?

Not all of these miracles are recorded in the canonical gospels, the four gospels contained in the Christian Bible.

The fact that Jesus spoke while he was yet a baby is not written anywhere in the Bible. This should not be surprising, because none of the Gospels can claim to recover every single event in the life of Jesus. Instead, the gospel According to John seeks to emphasize that the events were too many to record.

Similarly, the miracle of breathing life into a bird made of clay is not attested by the Christian Bible. This too should not make us wonder. It is obvious that the writers of the gospels could write down only the tradition that was available to them. Furthermore, they could not write down everything they knew about Jesus for they were writing on papyrus material that were very limited in length.

What is worthy to notice here is that the Prophet Muhammad, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, was honest enough to promulgate this information about Jesus and glorify him and his mother virgin Mary. The religion taught by God through Muhammad would deny the divinity of Jesus. Any human being, therefore, who wished to deny the divinity of Jesus would have tried to belittle Jesus. Since Christians looked upon the miracles of Jesus as a proof of his divinity, we might expect that any human being who tries to deny the divinity of Jesus would not have informed people of miracles not previously known to them. He might have even tried to deny some of the miracles recorded in the canonical gospels. On the other hand, the prophet Muhammad honestly conveyed the message delivered to him from Allah.

Allah tells us the truth without fear. Human beings trying to win followers tell us only what is conducive to winning us over. They usually withhold information that could lead to opposite conclusions. On the other hand, Allah informs us about the miracles of Jesus even if people use this information to support their prior commitment to the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. Allah does not need to win worshippers. Those who worship Allah does so for their own good. And those who worship false gods do so to their own detriment.

What Allah emphasizes, though, is that the miracles of Jesus do not prove he was divine. The miracles he performed were a sign, a proof, that he was God?s messenger. He performed them with God?s help and permission. Those who use his miracles as proof of his divinity would choose to forget the following sayings of Jesus

?I can of my own authority do nothing.?
(John 530)

They also forget the declaration of Peter

?Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know.?
(Acts 222 KJV)

These passages suggest that Jesus did not do miracles on his own. These, rather were accomplished by God?s leave. Allah reminds us of this. Jesus also constantly repeated to his audience that the miracles he performed were by God?s leave.

Sorry bro, I told you it is the big one hence to be continued.....

[unknownuser]

Hello again

I have to say sorry to the admin for my long comments bu I can see its importance regarding a very important issue in the history of mankind

They killed him not

It is a fact that any careful impartial reader of the four Gospels which are in the Bible will derive strong evidence to show that the man who was put on the cross did not die on the cross, but only appeared to have died. In those same Gospels there is also overwhelming evidence, in spite of the writers? own belief to the contrary, that it was possible and indeed likely, and that the crucified man was not Jesus Christ at all.

It is a fact that Jesus was not a well-known person a time in Jerusalem. To the people who were hunting for him he was a stranger, a rustic from Galilee. He had been preaching his faith for only two or three years, wandering from place to place with no fixed abode. (Matthew 8.20). During that time he could not have visited Jerusalem more than a few times. The earliest Gospel, Mark, says he had been there only once, while the latest, John, says four times. So little known was he that it is related Judas had to point out to his would ? be captors by pretending to kiss him. Thus it would be nothing unusual if they mistook somebody else for Jesus. The Gospels tell us that when he was arrested all his disciples left him alone and ran away. Even his closest disciple, Peter, denied any knowledge of him, saying

?I do not know this man. ?

It is difficult to believe that among all his disciples who he himself had especially selected with due care; there could not have been a single one who even acknowledge that he knew him. To say that this was in fulfillment of a prophecy s to bow to faith, and to stretch reason to breaking point.

Moreover the answers that the accused gave in court during cross examination were not such as to indicate that he was Jesus Christ. At best the accused prevaricated. All the three synoptic Gospels describing the court scene failed to produce one piece of evidence which would prove the identity of the accused. Luke says that when he was ordered ?If you are the Christ, tell us,? his answer was merely ?If tell you, you will not believe; and if I ask you, you will not answer.? When he was asked a point blank question ?Are you the Son of God?? he retorted ?You say that I am.?

Matthew reports

?and the high priest stood up and said, ?Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you.? But Jesus was silent. And the high priest stood up and said, ?I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.? Jesus said to him, ?You have said so. But I tell you hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.??

Mind you, these narratives even in their original form were written decades after the events, and are related by men who sincerely believe that it was Jesus Christ who was crucified, and yet even they have produced the evidence of only one man, Judas, a shady informer; and that evidence was not given under oath in open court, but merely by implication, a kiss purported to indicated Jesus Christ from among a crowed to frenzied mob of fanatics.

When we take into serious consideration this reasoning, together with previously related versions narrated by the Gospels other than those included in the Bible and the ancient manuscripts recently discovered which tell of early Christian beliefs that Jesus was not crucified the truth of the Quran becomes crystal clear.

?But they killed him not, nor crucified him but so it was made to apprear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For a surety they killed him not.?

And the Quran was revealed to an unlettered man fourteen centuries ago. Modern Western scholars now accept the Quranic version of the story of Jesus.

The Quran however did not mention the name of the person killed in place of Jesus, in a way it is not important to know, what was important to know that God with His supreme powers will NOT let his servant Jesus Christ to be humiliated, spat at, pissed at, bashed, nailed, spiked then left hanged in the open to die for further humiliation. However regarding the identity of the perpetrator, I lean to believe the hidden Gospel of Barnabas version (214-21, that it was Judas himself who was crucified in place of Jesus

(214) Judas Betrays
?Having gone forth from the house, Jesus retired into the garden to pray, according as his custom was to pray, bowing his knees an hundred times and prostrating himself upon his face. Judas, accordingly, knowing the place where Jesus was with his disciples, went to the high priest, and said "If you will give me what was promised, this night will I give into your hand Jesus whom you seek; for he is alone with eleven companions." The high priest answered "How much do you seek?" Judas said, "Thirty pieces of gold."

?Then straightway the high priest counted to him the money, and sent a Pharisee to the governor to fetch soldiers, and to Herod, and they gave a legion of them, because they feared the people; wherefore they took their arms, and with torches and lanterns upon staves went out of Jerusalem.?

(215) Divine Rescue of Jesus
?When the soldiers with Judas drew near to the place where Jesus was, Jesus heard the approach of many people, wherefore in fear he withdrew into the house. And the eleven were sleeping. Then God, seeing the danger of his servant, commanded Gabriel;, Michael;, Rafael;, and Uriel, his ministers, to take Jesus out of the world. The holy angels came and took Jesus out by the window that looks toward the South;. They bare him and placed him in the third heaven in the company of angels blessing God for evermore.?

(216) Judas Transformed
?Judas entered impetuously before all into the chamber whence Jesus had been taken up. And the disciples were sleeping. Whereupon the wonderful God acted wonderfully, insomuch that Judas was so changed in speech and in face to be like Jesus that we believed him to be Jesus. And he, having awakened us, was seeking where the Master was. Whereupon we marvelled, and answered 'You, Lord, are our master; have you now forgotten us?'?

?And he, smiling, said 'Now are you foolish, that know not me to be Judas Iscariot!' And as he was saying this the soldiery entered, and laid their hands upon Judas, because he was in every way like to Jesus. We having heard Judas' saying, and seeing the multitude of soldiers, fled as beside ourselves. And John, who was wrapped in a linen cloth, awoke and fled, and when a soldier seized him by the linen cloth he left the linen cloth and fled naked. For God heard the prayer of Jesus, and saved the eleven from evil.?

(217) Judas Scourged and Mocked
?The soldiers took Judas ;and bound him, not without derision. For he truthfully denied that he was Jesus; and the soldiers, mocking him, said 'Sir, fear not, for we are come to make you king of Israel, and we have bound you because we know that you do refuse the kingdom.' Judas answered 'Now have you lost your senses! You are come to take Jesus of Nazareth;, with arms and lanterns as a robber; and you have bound me that have guided you, to make me king!'?

?Then the soldiers lost their patience, and with blows and kicks they began to flout Judas, and they led him with fury into Jerusalem. John ;and Peter ;followed the soldiers afar off; and they affirmed to him who writes that they saw all the examination that was made of Judas by the high priest, and by the council of the Pharisees, who were assembled to put Jesus to death. Whereupon Judas spoke many words of madness, insomuch that every one was filled with laughter, believing that he was really Jesus, and that for fear of death he was feigning madness. Whereupon the scribes bound his eyes with a bandage, and mocking him said 'Jesus, prophet of the Nazarenes ;(for so they called them who believed in Jesus), 'tell us, who was it that smote you?' And they buffeted him and spat in his face.?

?When it was morning there assembled the great council of scribes and elders of the people; and the high priest with the Pharisees sought false witness against Judas, believing him to be Jesus and they found not that which they sought. And why say I that the chief priests believed Judas to be Jesus? No all the disciples, with him who writes, believed it; and more, the poor Virgin mother of Jesus, with his kinsfolk and friends, believed it, insomuch that the sorrow of every one was incredible.?

?As God lives, he who writes forgot all that Jesus had said how that he should be taken up from the world, and that he should suffer in a third person, and that he should not die until near the end of the world. Wherefore he went with the mother of Jesus and with John to the cross. The high priest caused Judas ;to be brought before him bound, and asked him of his disciples and his doctrine. Whereupon Judas, as though beside himself, answered nothing to the point. The high priest then adjured him by the living God of Israel that he would tell him the truth.?

?Judas answered 'I have told you that I am Judas Iscariot, who promised to give into your hands Jesus the Nazarene; and you, by what are I know not, are beside yourselves, for you will have it by every means that I am Jesus.' The high priest answered 'O perverse seducer, you have deceived all Israel, beginning from Galilee ;even to Jerusalem here, with your doctrine and false miracles and now think you to flee the merited punishment that befits you by feigning to be mad??

?As God lives,' you shall not escape it!' And having said this he commanded his servants to smite him with buffetings and kicks, so that his understanding might come back into his head. The derision which he then suffered at the hands of the high priest's servants is past belief. For they zealously devised new inventions to give pleasure to the council. So they attired him as a juggler, and so treated him with hands and feet that it would have moved the very Canaanites to compassion if they had beheld that sight. But the chief priests and Pharisees and elders of the people had their hearts so exasperated against Jesus that, believing Judas to be really Jesus, they took delight in seeing him so treated.?

?Afterwards they led him bound to the governor, who secretly loved Jesus. Whereupon he, thinking that Judas was Jesus, made him enter into his chamber, and spoke to him, asking him for what cause the chief priests and the people had given him into his hands. Judas answered 'If I tell you the truth, you will not believe me; for perhaps you are deceived as the (chief) priests and the Pharisees are deceived.'?

?The governor answered (thinking that he wished to speak concerning the Law) 'Now know you not that I am not a Jew? but the (chief) priests and the elders of your people have given you into my hand; wherefore tell us the truth, wherefore I may do what is just. For I have power to set you free and to put you to death.' Judas answered 'Sir, believe me, if you put me to death, you shall do a great wrong, for you shall slay an innocent person; seeing that I am Judas ;Iscariot, and not Jesus, who is a magician, and by his are has so transformed me.'?

?When he heard this the governor marvelled greatly, so that he sought to set him at liberty. The governor therefore went out, and smiling said 'In the one case, at least, this man is not worthy of death, but rather of compassion.' 'This man says,' said the governor, 'that he is not Jesus, but a certain Judas who guided the soldiery to take Jesus, and he says that Jesus the Galilean has by his are magic so transformed him. Wherefore, if this be true, it were a great wrong to kill him, seeing that he were innocent. But if he is Jesus and denies that he is, assuredly he has lost his understanding, and it were impious to slay a madman.'?

?Then the chief priests and elders of the people, with the scribes and Pharisees, cried out with shouts, saying 'He is Jesus of Nazareth;, for we know him; for if he were not the malefactor we would not have given him into your hands. Nor is he mad; but rather malignant, for with this device he seeks to escape from our hands, and the sedition that he would stir up if he should escape would be worse than the former.' Pilate (of such was the governor's name), in order to rid himself of such a case, said 'He is a Galilean, and Herod is king of Galilee wherefore it pertains not to me to judge such a case, so take you him to Herod.'?

?Accordingly they led Judas to Herod, who of a long time had desired that Jesus should go to his house. But Jesus had never been willing to go to his house, because Herod was a Gentile, and adored the false and lying gods, living after the manner of the unclean Gentiles. Now when Judas had been led thither, Herod asked him of many things, to which Judas gave answers not to the purpose, denying that he was Jesus. Then Herod mocked him, with all his court, and caused him to be clad in white as the fools are clad;, and sent him back to Pilate, saying to him, 'Do not fail in justice to the people of Israel!' * And this Herod wrote, because the chief priests and scribes and the Pharisees had given him a good quantity of money. The governor having heard that this was so from a servant of Herod, in order that he also might gain some money, feigned that he desired to set Judas at liberty.?

?Whereupon he caused him to be scourged by his slaves, who were paid by the scribes to slay him under the scourges. But God, who had decreed the issue, reserved Judas for the cross, in order that he might suffer that horrible death to which he had sold another. He did not suffer Judas to die under the scourges, notwithstanding that the soldiers scourged him so grievously that his body rained blood. Thereupon, in mockery they clad him in an old purple garment;, saying 'It is fitting to our new king to clothe him and crown him' so they gathered thorns and made a crown, like those of gold and precious stones which kings wear on their heads. And this crown of thorns they placed upon Judas' head, putting in his hand a reed for sceptre;, and they made him sit in a high place.?

?And the soldiers came before him, bowing down in mockery, saluting him as King of the Jews. And they held out their hands to receive gifts, such as new kings are accustomed to give; and receiving nothing they smote Judas, saying 'Now, how are you crowned, foolish king, if you will not pay your soldiers and servants?' *The chief priests with the scribes and Pharisees, seeing that Judas died not by the scourges, and fearing lest Pilate should set him at liberty, made a gift of money to the governor, who having received it gave Judas to the scribes and Pharisees as guilty to death. Whereupon they condemned two robbers with him to the death of the cross.?

?So they led him to Mount Calvary, where they used to hang malefactors, and there they crucified him naked;, for the greater ignominy. *Judas truly did nothing else but cry out 'God, why have you forsaken me, seeing the malefactor has escaped and I die unjustly?' *Truly I say that the voice, the face, and the person of Judas were so like to Jesus, that his disciples and believers entirely believed that he was Jesus; wherefore some departed from the doctrine of Jesus, believing that Jesus had been a false prophet, and that by art magic he had done the miracles which he did for Jesus had said that he should not die till near the end of the world; for that at that time he should be taken away from the world.?

?But they that stood firm in the doctrine of Jesus were so encompassed with sorrow, seeing him die who was entirely like to Jesus, that they remembered not what Jesus had said. And so in company with the mother of Jesus they went to Mount Calvary, and were not only present at the death of Judas, weeping continually, but by means of Nicodemus and Joseph of Abarimathia; they obtained from the governor the body of Judas to bury it. Whereupon, they took him down from the cross with such weeping as assuredly no one would believe, and buried him in the new sepulchre of Joseph; having wrapped him up in an hundred pounds of precious ointments.?

(21 Judas Crucified
?Then returned each man to his house. He who writes, with John and James his brother, went with the mother of Jesus; to Nazareth.?

?Those disciples who did not fear God went by night stole the body of Judas and hid it, spreading a report that Jesus was risen again; whence great confusion arose. The high priest then commanded, under pain of anathema;, that no one should talk of Jesus of Nazareth;. And so there arose a great persecution, and many were stoned and many beaten, and many banished from the land, because they could not hold their peace on such a matter.?

?The news reached Nazareth how that Jesus, their fellow citizen, having died on the cross was risen again. Whereupon, he that writes; prayed the mother of Jesus; that she would be pleased to leave off weeping, because her son was risen again. Hearing this, the Virgin Mary, weeping, said 'Let us go to Jerusalem to find my son. I shall die content when I have seen him.'?

To be continued.....

[unknownuser]

Ok mate, the last comment regarding alleged contradiction #1, i will skip the Dead Sea Scrolls part unless you want to read it, and I'm sorry again for the long comments, this one is by a sincere brother in Islam called Usamah Abdullah and my great thanks and appreciation to his work

Jesus in the Bible guaranteed Paradise to non-Trinitarians
When I debate with Christians, they generally say that the only way a person can get saved and go to Heaven is to believe and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior who died for him on the cross to purify him from his sins. Anyone who doesn't believe in this would not be saved. They always bring the following verses from the Bible as a proof to this claim

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ?
(From the NIV Bible, John 146)

"that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. ?
(From the NIV Bible, John 315-17)

Note John 315-17 is discussed in a separate section below in this article, since they are not a direct quote from Jesus himself in the New Testament.

It is important to know that most of the Bible, especially the New Testament, has general and controversial statements like this one. This verse might sound like a clear proof for the Trinitarians, but as we read the verses below, we will see that it really doesn't mean that the person HAS TO ACCEPT JESUS AS HIS MEDIATOR between him and GOD Almighty to be saved. Let us read the following

"If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself, ' you are doing right.?
(From the NIV Bible, James 2

"The entire law is summed up in a single command 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' ?
(From the NIV Bible, Galatians 514)

Jesus said loving GOD Almighty so much and being nice to your neighbours will cause you to have eternal life

25. On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26. "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27. He answered " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
28. "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live. ?
    (Luke 1025-2

Notice that the man's question was straight forward

"What must I do to inherit eternal life?"

No other question can be more straight forward than this. Notice how Jesus answered this straight forward question

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart......and love your neighbour as yourself......Do this and you will live. ?

Notice that Jesus didn't talk about any trinity-lie concept, nor did he say to the man that he must accept Jesus as a mediator between him and GOD Almighty to win Eternal Life. Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward here LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. That is simply all there is to it to win eternal life in Jesus' standards.

It certainly wasn't necessary for the man who asked the question to believe in trinity in order for him to be saved. Jesus assured him Paradise if he believed otherwise.

Unless there is a different meaning to "Eternal Life", I don't see how any fundamentalist polytheist trinitarian pagan can answer this dilemma that exists in his/her core beliefs!

Jesus a second time confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life"
We saw above in Luke 1025-28 how Jesus confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life". Here is another incident where Jesus was asked the same exact question by another person

18. A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

19. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

20. You know the commandments 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother. ' "

21. "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

22. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. "

23. When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.

24. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!

25. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26. Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

27. Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

28. Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"

29. "I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God

30. will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life. ?
    ( Luke 1818-30)

Again, we see in Luke 1818 above, the same exact question was asked to Jesus for the second time on a different occasion

"What must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Again, no other question can be more straight forward than this.

Notice, first of all, in Luke 1819 how Jesus refutes the lie about him being GOD Almighty. He clearly put himself below GOD Almighty and as only a creation of GOD Almighty when he said

"Why do you call me good?....No one is good--except God alone." ?

Notice the exclusivity that Jesus gave to GOD Almighty when he said "GOD alone." , and also when he said "No one (including Jesus) is good".

Notice in Luke 1820 how Jesus referred back to the Law of Moses. ?The Law of Moses is the way to Eternal Life according to Jesus.? Jesus was twice confronted with the same question, and he twice had made it clear that the Law of Moses is the way to Paradise.

Now in Luke 1822, we see Jesus adding another condition to the man only because the man was rich. But the bottom line of Jesus' stand is still the same

Honor the Law of Moses and you will win the Eternal Life in Paradise.

More blessings and winning of Eternal Life
Here are more quotes that refute the dogma of trinity and the lie of accepting of Jesus as the mediator between you and GOD Almighty in order for you to win eternal life

"In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said `It is more blessed to give than to receive.'?
( Acts 2034-36 )

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. ?
( Matthew 59-11 )

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. ?
(Matthew 58-10 )

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. ?
(Matthew 55-7)

"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. ?
(Matthew 56-

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. ?
(Matthew 57-9)

"Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. ?
(Matthew 53-5)

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. ?
(Matthew 54-6)

"Here, O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord. ?
(Mark 1229)

The book of Ezekiel and the Old Testament clearly and directly refutes the "Salvation through trinity" lie!
The following verses from the Book of Ezekiel

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.?
(From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 4311)

"Hear, O Israel The LORD our God, the LORD is one.?
(From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 64)

"But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself. ?
(From the NIV Bible, Ezekiel 319-21)

As we clearly see, the Old Testament clearly and directly refutes the nonsense about salvation can only be obtained through believing in Jesus Christ as "GOD" who died on the cross for your sins. How do these verses from the book of Ezekiel supposed to agree with all of the lies in the New Testament about Salvation? And ironically, and as we've seen above, the topic of Salvation in the New Testament is in contradiction! The Bible has the worst contradictions and inconsistencies in the most important topic, Salvation!

So what is the way that Jesus talked about in John 146 then?
When Jesus said

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(From the NIV Bible, John 146),

if we take the meanings of this verse in the same context in Luke 1025-28 and the other verses that teach about love, harmony and forgiveness, then we would clearly see that the way that Jesus talked about is the goodness in you.

If you love GOD Almighty with your heart and soul and you are a good person and love people and always try to be the best example to every person you meet (as clearly emphasized and stretched in the verses above), then you will win the Eternal Life. Accepting Jesus as the mediator between you and GOD Almighty (believing that Jesus died on the cross to purify your sins) is not necessary to win Eternal Life, and according to the Early Christians' doctrines during the 1st and 2nd centuries, Jesus never got crucified anyway, which is exactly what Islam also claims.

Like I said above, it certainly wasn't necessary for the men who asked the question about "Eternal Life" to believe in trinity in order for them to be saved. Jesus assured them Paradise if they believed otherwise.

Jesus in John 174 further clarifies the Salvation concept and refutes the "closed-minded" Christians
Most Christians today believe that if a person doesn't believe that Jesus died on the cross for his/her sins, then there is not even the least chance for that person to enter Paradise. Jesus in John 174 refuted this gibberish nonsense. Let us look at what Jesus peace be upon him said in John 171-10

1. After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed

2. "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

3. Now this is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

4. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.

5. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

6. "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

7. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

8. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

9. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.

10. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
    (John 171-10)

As we clearly see in John 174, Jesus declared the completion of his work that GOD Almighty had assigned to him on earth. In John 178, he prayed for all of those who followed him and believed in him and in the Commands that he brought to them from GOD Almighty. In John 1710, Jesus said that his glory is given to him (Jesus) through them.

All of this clearly refutes the gibberish nonsense that most Christians claim about non-Trinitarians and those who don't believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins are going to Hell. As I showed above in the article, Jesus only cared about the love of GOD Almighty and the love of neighbors and people in general.

And for those who believe that Jesus was GOD Almighty Himself, i.e. the Creator of the Universe, when Isaiah prophesied about the coming of Jesus, he said that GOD Almighty will put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus. Let us have a read

2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD ?

3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;

4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.

5 Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
(Isaiah 112-5)

How can Jesus be the creator of the Universe when GOD Almighty had put the spirit of fearing GOD Almighty in him?

People who are like "Children" will win Paradise in Matthew 181-4
Jesus peace be upon him never claimed that people are sinners and they will never enter the Kingdom of GOD Almighty except if they believe in the crucifixion nonsense. All what a person needs to enter Heaven in Jesus' standards is to humble him/herself like a child, i.e., be as innocent as a child. Let us look at Matthew 181-4 to see who will be the Greatest in the Kingdom of GOD Almighty

1. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

2. He called a little child and had him stand among them.

3. And he said "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. ?

4. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
   (Matthew 181-4)

Again, another straight forward question was asked to Jesus peace be upon him. Notice again that Jesus didn't put the crucifixion nonsense as a standard, nor did he ever mention it, or even cared about it. All what Jesus wants from his followers is to believe in GOD Almighty and be good to their neighbours as clearly explained in the first section of this article above, and to be as humble as little children.

So is Jesus the salvation or not?!
When one reads

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. ?
(From the NIV Bible, Mark 1229)

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ?
(From the NIV Bible, John 146)

"The entire law is summed up in a single command 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'?
(From the NIV Bible, Galatians 514)

25. On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

26. "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27. He answered "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

28. "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." ?
    (Luke 1025-2

And all of the other verses mentioned above, he would clearly see that the Bible's interpretation by the polytheist trinitarian pagans and fundamentalists is bogus. According to the verses I mentioned above, Jesus in the NT is clearly not the only salvation to GOD Almighty. Otherwise, we are left with a major CONTRADICTION in the Bible between Jesus being the only salvation to GOD Almighty, and Jesus not being the only one.

What bothers me the most from trinity is that it is all based on man's interpretation. The word itself, "trinity", does not even exist in the Bible. Not even once! Yet, it is the central faith to most Christians today, who are no other than polytheist trinitarian pagans, unfortunately.

What about John 316 - "For God loved the world that he gave his one and only son...."

Let us look at the following verses

"that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.?
(From the NIV Bible, John 315-17)

First of all, it is important to know that John 315-17 is not a quote from Jesus himself in the Bible. It is a quote that exist in the so-called "Gospel of John", but the Gospel itself according to the theologians and historians of the NIV Bible had been tampered with and altered by men, along with most of the Bible's books and gospels.
The interpretation of John 316 can mean that if one doesn't believe in Jesus as the "son of God", and that he died on the cross for our sins, then the person will not have an Eternal Life in Paradise. The problem with this, however, is that

"Son of God" in Hebrew literally means "Servant of God"

I firmly believe that this alleged contradiction is refuted for good, I wonder thoughwhy they keep bringing it on the table for years and years, I will have a rest for a couple of days bro then continue responding to the other alleged contradictions

Pecae be with you

Thanks for reading

http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/ag_end.gif

[agentxxx]

Peace Ahmed
Thanks brother for the invaluable information that you have provided for me, especially from the bible. Insha Allah when this discussion ends, I will have more information then most of the so-called scholars in Pakistan.
Regarding Jesus Christ?s status as ?God or Son of God? I think sura al-ikhlaas is enough for us ) .

1121-Say He is Allah the One and Only;
1122-Allah the Eternal Absolute;
1123-He begetteth not nor is He begotten;
1124-And there is none like unto Him.

Was Jesus crucified?
A friend of mine is an ?Ahmedi? they believe that Mirza Ghullam Ahmed was a messenger of God . The constitution of Pakistan states, that to be a Muslim you have to believe that prophet Muhammad is the last messenger of God, so the ?Ahmedis? were declared non-Muslims in around 1977. Their belief is that Jesus and Mary along with their disciples came to the Indian sub continent, the Kashmir?s are their decedents. Mary died and is buried at a place called Muree and the name Muree is the slang for Mary, Jesus is buried near Srinagar. According to their belief God revealed this to Mirza Ghullam Ahmed. They also quote the Quranic verse 4157 to support their argument.

Brother, yes I would certainly like to know about the Dead Sea scroll and I will be thankful to you for the information.

You wrote

(215) Divine Rescue of Jesus
?When the soldiers with Judas drew near to the place where Jesus was, Jesus heard the approach of many people, wherefore in fear he withdrew into the house. And the eleven were sleeping. Then God, seeing the danger of his servant, commanded Gabriel;, Michael;, Rafael;, and Uriel, his ministers, to take Jesus out of the world. The holy angels came and took Jesus out by the window that looks toward the South;. They bare him and placed him in the third heaven in the company of angels blessing God for evermore.?

?But they killed him not, nor crucified him but so it was made to apprear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For a surety they killed him not.?

(15 ?Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-?

I will also be thankful if you explain verse 333 for me in the light of the above mentioned verses 4157/158

329-But she pointed to the babe. They said "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
330-He said "I am indeed a servant of Allah He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
331-"And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
332-"(He) hath made me kind to my mother and not overbearing or miserable;
333-"So Peace is on me the day I WAS BORN the day THAT I DIE and the Day that I SHALL BE RAISED UP TO LIFE (AGAIN)"!
334-Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary (it is) a statement of truth about which they (vainly) dispute.
if jesus was taken up to the heaven alive,then according to 333 does it mean he will come back again? and then die, and then will be raised up to life on the day of judgement?? please explain.
thank you,
God bless you all.

[unknownuser]

Peace mate,

I will pause responding to the alleged contradiction so I can respond to your last comment, it is going to be a big one again, i need some time bro to organise my reply, thanks for the new questions I really appreciate it, i have all the answeres while reading you comment, believe me bro, just be patient with me until I put it together

peace be with you

[agentxxx]

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

I will pause responding to the alleged contradiction so I can respond to your last comment, it is going to be a big one again, i need some time bro to organise my reply, thanks for the new questions I really appreciate it, i have all the answeres while reading you comment, believe me bro, just be patient with me until I put it together

brother, i am sorry for my impatients, please ignore my question and carry on with the good work )
thank you,
God bless you all.

[unknownuser]

Hello Mate

Ok we will hold on the discussion about the Miraz Ahmed and his sect as well the dilemma about Jesus Christ real end on earth, I have a lot of info bro especially the one about Jesus which I debated with many Sunni on a Sunni web site that is ran by a bunch of tyrant muslims, they could not handle my argument and even deleted the verses of the Quran, can you believe it bro? well, it only proved to me how strong, and logical the arguments I present. Let?s now move on to the alleged contradictions mentioned above, and it is about time to refute this

Alleged Contradiction # 7

1519-And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

YUSUFALI And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

PICKTHAL And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein.

SHAKIR And the earth-- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing.

(19)

Ahmed says

Alleged contradiction merit and rationale 10 %

Mate, I discussed this many times with Christians, family members, friends online and some enemy of Islam, the fact of the matter I give it 10% merit is due to their ignorance in the Arabic language but it seems in this one they also lack the English language. Let?s see bro where they got it wrong

The above verse is actually giving us 3 pieces of information

1. And the earth We have spread out
2. set thereon mountains firm and immovable
3. produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

I guess the opposition is suggesting that the above verse clearly says the EARTH IS FLAT,

While see no mention in the Arabic nor the English that the earth was made flat, the verse also never said the earth was like a carpet as Y A added in his translation

-> The truth of the matter that this Arabic verse 1519 actually means indirectly that the earth is a ball, the Arabic word ? ? was translated as

YUSUFALI We spread out (like a carpet)

PICKTHAL We spread out

SHAKIR We have spread it forth

So where did they get ?FLAT? from?, any way looking at the verse closely we see that the earth was spread out, the Arabic word ? ? not just it means spread out, BUT spread out without NO END, so if you walk on earth in one direction I bet you will never reach an end as the earth is a ball and you will just keep going around in a circle and that is exactly what the Arabic word ? ? means, this is another miracle by the Quran because at the time when the Quran was revealed the only known knowledge about earth that it is flat, and if you will walk on a flat earth you MUST reach an end , and the word ? ? can not be used for a FLAT earth, but a round one that has no end

The word ??, which means in Arabic ?to spread? ?to elongate? and the double ?? in the word ? ? which are the second and third letters in the Arabic word from the right, is actually a common use in the Arabic language to stress the action as it is going on and on, the Arabic verb of the word is ?? and as you can see only have one ?? and in a normal way you say it as follow ? ?, but if you double the ?? to be ??, will lead to the action will continue happening, I.E ?NO END?, however all three translators, translated the word exactly the same, ?SPREAD? as we have seen and never was translated ?FLAT?

YUSUFALI We spread out (like a carpet) , Y A added ?OUT? to the verb ?SPREAD? then he added ?(like a carpet)?, the brackets here means an additional info by YUSUFALI that is not in the original language

PICKTHAL We spread out , PICKTHAL also added ?OUT? to the verb ?SPREAD? exactly as Y A but PICKTHAL did not add the extra information. You have to agree that the extra information by Y A did not disturb the meaning.

SHAKIR We have spread it forth, SHAKIR did not use ?OUT? and used ?IT? referring to the earth, then used the word ?FORTH? to simulate the double the ?? in the Arabic word ??

It is obvious that any book can not be translated word for word, because there are words that do not exist in all languages and to translate that word you end up with sentence instead

However God?s words IS PRESERVED WORD FOR WORD IN ITS ORIGINAL LANGUAGE

And sure the 3 translation I posted saying THE EXACT SAME MEANING

You see mate the flawed translations others make up has to be misleading because they added words that NEVER existed in the Arabic version, neither in all 3 very compatible common translations, the word ?FLAT? was never mentioned in the verse, however you have to know that the ONLY knowledge about the earth they had at the time of the Quran revelation that it is flat, no one at the time of Mohammad knew that the earth is a ball, in fact if you look on earth while you standing on it, it seems absolutely flat, and by looking at the Arabic word again we see it will not conflict with the knowledge at that time, and surly it does not conflict with the recent science, because you can spread any thing on a flat surface or any other shape you can think of, like spreading the paint on a car.

We have to alco consider that if Mohammad came and said it was a BALL directly then his message is compromised, Mohammad had no knowledge anyway, Mohammad was just delivering the message, in fact Allah has warned Mohammad NOT to try to add to the Quran words if it does not suit the people, this warning to Mohammad is stated in the Quran clearly

(43)?(This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.?
(44)?And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,?
(45)?We should certainly seize him by his right hand,?
(46)?And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart?
(47)?Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).?

(43)
(44)
(45)
(46)
(47)

-> Can you see the strong WARNING to the messenger if he try to invent any sayings in his name, well Mohammad had no choice in Allah?s words, this is how Allah wanted it and I do not think there will be any human smarter than Allah to know His real intension of choosing the words of His Quran , but it is also clear that the Arabic words used is ABSOLUTLY suiting every generation who had no science knowledge or even as science evolve.

The reality that those Quran bashers ignore is this The Quran said in many other locations what it means EXACTLY that the earth is a BALL, let?s have a quick look at 395

YUSUFALI He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions) He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law) Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?

PICKTHAL He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each running on for an appointed term. Is not He the Mighty, the Forgiver?

SHAKIR He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth; He makes the night cover the day and makes the day overtake the night, and He has made the sun and the moon subservient; each one runs on to an assigned term; now surely He is the Mighty, the great Forgiver.

(5)

-> There is a very important note here, I will break the verse into sections to explain it better. Allah is saying the following

A) ? ? and this means exactly in English as seen in the 3 translations

I) ?He created the heavens and the earth in true? , YUSUFALI
II) ?He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth?, PICKTHAL
III) ?He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth?, SHAKIR

all three are almost identical

B) ? ? , I underlined a very important Arabic word that was repeated twice in this section, the word is ? ? and it means to make something into a ?BALL?, in fact Ball in Arabic means exactly ? ?, and the past verb is ? ? and the present verb is ? ? , the word that is used twice in this section of the verse, unfortunately this word was translated wrong by all 3, let?s look at their translation

I) ?He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night? , YUSUFALI
II) ?He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night?, PICKTHAL
III) ?He makes the night cover the day and makes the day overtake the night?, SHAKIR

-> All three has translated the word ? ? in a way that is not really showing what the Arabic word means, because it is hard to translate it into English if you want to use it to describe the Day and Nights intervals, but Allah has told us that the Day and Night will be swapped as you making something into a Ball, that something has to be the earth that is moving, because the day and night do not move around the earth, rather the earth rotate around its axis and the Quran is giving us a simulation that the day and night movement ?is Balling? around earth, I may have created a new English word ?is Balling? but believe me mate that is the exact translation to the Arabic word ? ? and if you put into context with the day and night as described in the verse, it only leads to the Earth is a Ball.

Peace be with you bro

[unknownuser]

Hello Agentxxx

I hope you enjoyed the above reading bro, indeed I read it over 100 times and yet still enjoying it, I want to show you how the Dead Sea Scrolls connects to the Quran without any stretching

The Dead Sea Scrolls - the Quran connection
In 1947 a group of children stumbled upon the first set of scrolls in a cave on the shores of the dead sea. These scrolls were imediately identified as the work of a very devout sect of the Jewish community that lived centuries before the birth of Jesus (pbuh). Hershel Shanks says in his book Understanding the Dead Sea Scrolls

"Such was the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, manuscripts a thousand years older than the oldest known Hebrew texts of the Bible, manuscripts many of which were written a hundred years before the birth of Jesus and at least one of which may have been written almost three hundred years before the journey of Mary and Joseph to Bethleham"
(Understanding the Dead Sea Scrolls, Hershel Shanks, pp. 7-.

An immediate frantic search ensued through the remaining caves in the region in order to find what other ancient scrolls could be discovered therein. A small group of "international" scholars in Israel were given exclusive access to them and the rest of the world was all but totally barred from gaining even the slightest glimpse of the texts (Prof. Eisenman observes that one of the major stumbling blocks for the publication of the scrolls was that "in the first place, the team was hardly international") . Prof. Robert Eisenman was one of the key players in the drama that finally lead to the release of the scrolls. In his book The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered we read

"In the spring of 1986, at the end of his stay in Jerusalem, Professor Eisenman went with the British scholar, Philip Davies of the University of Sheffield, to see one of the Israeli officials responsible for this - an intermediary on behalf of the Antiquities Department (now 'Authority') and the International Team and the Scrolls Curator at Israel Museum. They were told in no uncertain terms 'You will not see the Scrolls in your lifetimes'".

This stung them into action, and as a result of this statement, a massive effort was launched and five years later, through a whirlwind of media publicity, absolute access to the scrolls was attained. Prof. Eisenman eventually received 1800 pictures of the previously unpublished scrolls. The book goes on to describe how "Eisenman was preparing the Facsimile Edition of all unpublished plates. This was scheduled to appear the following spring through E. J. Brill in Leiden, Holland. Ten days, however, before it's scheduled publication in April 1991, after pressure was applied by the International Team, the publisher inexplicably withdrew and Hershel Shanks (author of Biblical Archiology Review) and the Biblical Archeology Society to their credit stepped in to fill the breach". However, finally in September 1991, the archives were officially opened and two months later the 2-volume Facsimile Edition was published.

We have already read the words of Mr. Tom Harpur in the preface to his book

"The most significant development since 1986 in this regard has been the discovery of the title "Son of God" in one of the Qumran papyri (Dead Sea Scrolls) used in relation to a person other than Jesus.....this simply reinforces the argument made there that to be called the Son of God in a Jewish setting in the first century is not by any means the same as being identical with God Himself."
For Christ's Sake, pp. xii.

So why don't we study these scrolls in a little more detail and see what else we can learn ?

The Dead Sea Scrolls consist of fragments from many manuscripts, however, some of the most interesting among them are the Pesher texts. The Pesher texts are strings of interpretations of Biblical verses compiled by the most knowledgeable among the Jews. The word itself is derived from the Hebrew root word p-sh-r, which means, "to explain". The texts consist of Biblical passages followed by the words pesher ha-davar "the interpretation of the matter is", and then the interpretation itself.

The basis of all of these texts is the notion that all of history is preordained by God. In other words, God is not restricted to looking at matters as "past", "present", or "future", rather, all of time is an open book to God Indeed, this is the essence of how prophets receive "prophesies", because God "sees" the future. So, remembering that we are henceforth quoting from texts that have been carbon dated at about 100 years or more before the coming of Jesus (pbuh), and that this dating is confirmed by literary analysis, and that the authors were a sect of very religious and devout Jews, considering all of this let us see what they have to say

Those who have studies the scrolls have noticed a common theme prevalent throughout these manuscripts, that is, most of the pesher texts prophesise the comming of a "Teacher of Righteousness" who will be sent by God to the Jews. This "Teacher of Rightousness" will be opposed by the "Teacher of Lies" and the "Wicked Priest". These scrolls also predict the coming of two messiahs. These two messiahs are referred to as a 1) priestly and a 2) temporal messiah. What we had here was a society of very devout Jews who were convinced that the time of the coming of the two messiahs was at hand, therefore, they set about preparing for their advent by detaching themselves from the mainstream society, and dedicating their lives to their worship and the preparation for their imminent arrival.

In The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered, by Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise, we read that the early scrolls spoke of two messiahs, but that later on, the communities of the Jews began to combine them into one messiah

"As we have suggested, contrary to the well-known 'two-Messiah' theory of early Qumran scholarship, these references to the 'Messiah of Aaron and Israel' in the Damascus Document are singular not plural... and one possible explanation for it is that it is evoking a Messiah with both priestly and kingly implications, like the somewhat similar recitations of Hebrews"
(The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered, Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise, p. 162).

"According to the dominant view in the sectarian texts from Qumran, two messiahs were to lead the congregation in the End of Days, one priestly, and the other lay"
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, pp. 321-322).

The Jews had prophesies of two messiahs. The first was best known to them for his "religious" or "preistly" works which he would perform. The second was best known to them for his "kingly" works; his bringing of an epoch of peace.

These two prophesies refer to Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh). Jesus (pbuh) was best know for his "preistly" works. However, he never lead an army, and he never established a kingdom or a government. Quite the opposite, he called to peace and submissiveness and to leave the rule of the land to others (Matthew 2221). He told his followers that he yet had many things to teach them but they could not bear them yet and that another would be coming after him who would teach them the complete truth (John 167-14).

Muhammad (pbuh) too began his ministry preaching submissivness and passiveness. However, his ministry was nurtured by God almighty to a point where it was able to defend itself and establish justice in the earth and abolish evil. His followers fought several wars in self defense and against injustice. The Islamic empire finally stretched from China to Spain and even those who did not follow Muhammad (pbuh) knew him well. However, what did they know him for? They knew him for his "kingly" actions and not for the "priestly" side of him that his followers knew.

"And fight against them until persecution is no more and religion is for God alone. But if they desist then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers"
(The Quran, 2193)

"Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognize him Muhammad as they recognize their sons. But verilly, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it"
(The Quran, 2146)

Over time, the prophesies of the Jews began to become a little blurred, and this in addition to the continuous persecution of many nations towards the Jews eventually lead to their blending of these prophesies into one single prophesy and their aggrandizing of this one all- conquering wondrous event that would finally relieve them of their persecution and pave the way for them to march forth conquering all nations, and establishing themselves as the protectors of the kingdom of God. For this reason, when we read the Gospel of Barnabas, we find that when the Jews ask Jesus (pbuh) whether he is "the messiah" he replys that he is not "the messiah" that they are expecting.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
(Matthew 1034-35)

This is because he understood their question. They were not asking him for his title, rather, they wanted to know whether he was the one who would finally fulfil all of their prophesies of leadership, power, and grandeur that they had been waiting for for so many centuries. For this reason, he told them that he was not "the messiah", but that "the Messiah" they were waiting for would not come until later. He was referring to the SECOND messiah in their prophesies. (the Jews had expectations of three prophecies to be fulfilled)

Lawrence Schiffman says regarding Pesher Habakkuk

"It (Pesher Habakkuk) describes the struggle between the Teacher of Righteousness and his opponents - the Man of Lies (also termed the Spouter or Preacher of Lies) and the Wicked Priest. The Spouter is pictured as heading a community. The dispute between the Teacher and the Spouter is seems to have been based on matters of religious interpretation and law. The Wicked Priest is said to have begun his rule in truth but then to have abandoned the way of truth. He then persecutes the Teacher, confronting him on the holiest day of the year, the Day of Atonement".
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 22.

This prophesy also continues in Pesher Psalms

"This text also mentions the familiar dramatis personae the Teacher of Righteousness, termed 'the priest'; the wicked priest; and the Man of Lies. The Wicked Priest persecuted the Teacher and sought to kill him. The man of lies lead people astray".
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 229).

What we begin to see in all of this is the story of the coming of Jesus (pbuh), his selection of Judas as one of the apostles, the deviance of Judas from the truth, how a sect of the Jews persecuted Jesus (pbuh), how this sect tried to deceive the masses and differed with Jesus (pbuh) regarding the truth of God's message, and finally, how they schemed with Judas to kill Jesus (pbuh). The Teacher of Righteousness is thus a reference to Jesus (pbuh); the "priestly" Messiah. The Wicked Priest is a reference to Judas, and the Spouter of Lies is most likely the leader of the "chief priests and Pharisees" who persecuted Jesus (pbuh) and are mentioned so often in the Bible.

Many Christian scholars have snatched up these prophesies in order to prove the validity of their claim that Jesus (pbuh) was indeed sent by God and that the Jews are required to follow him. However, they have been thwarted in their attempts by one other quite amazing piece of evidence that the Jews continually manage to refute their claims with, specifically, that the Dead Sea Scrolls claim that the coming messiah will be persecuted and that the Wicked Priest will try to kill him, but that the Wicked Priest will not be successful and that it is he who will receive the fate he wished for the messiah.

In interpreting Psalms 3732

"The Wicked watches for the righteous, seeking to put him to death," the text states 'Its interpretation concerns the Wicked Priest who watched out for the Teacher of Righteousness and sought to put him to death'"
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 233).

So Judas will try to kill Jesus (pbuh).

"The Wicked Priest began his career with the support of the sectarians, but he quickly lost his way and began to transgress in order to increase his wealth".
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 233).

"And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver".
(Matthew 2615)

"Various theories have sought to identify the Teacher with Jesus, claiming that he was executed by the Wicked Priest. However, had that been the case, the text would not have gone on to explain how God took vengeance against the priest by turning him over to the 'ruthless ones of the nations'. And according to this text, the teacher certainly survived the ambush. Indeed the entire passage is an interpretation of Psalms (3733) where the text continues,

"The Lord will not abandon him (the Righteous), into his hand (the Wicked); He (The Lord) will not let him (the Righteous) be condemned in judgment (by the wicked)."
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, pp. 233-234).

The author goes on to quote Pesher Habakkuk with regard to the Wicked Priest's intentions and his punishment. He says "Ultimately, however, the Wicked Priest was punished '.. because of his transgression against the Teacher of Righteousness and the men of his council, God gave him over to the hands of his enemies to afflict him with disease so as to destroy him with mortal suffering because he had acted wickedly against His chosen one'.

The Wicked Priest's enemies tortured him which represents divine punishment for his attacks on the Teacher of Righteousness. The sufferings of the Wicked Priest are even more graphically described in another passage 'and all his enemies arose and abused him in order for his suffering to be fit punishment for his evil. And they inflicted upon him horrible diseases, and acts of vengeance in the flesh of his body'. But the one who suffered was the Wicked Priest, not the Teacher of Righteousness.

"The enemies of the Wicked Priest, the nation against whom he had made war, are said to have tortured him, so that his life ended in mortal disease and affliction."
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 234).

If we read the Gospel of Barnabas, we will find that when Judas came with the Roman troops in order to betray Jesus (pbuh), God raised Jesus (pbuh) unto Him and saved him. He then made Judas look and even speak like Jesus (pbuh) so that the Romans dragged him (Judas) away with them kicking and screaming that he was not Jesus (pbuh) but Judas. Even the Apostles were totally bewildered.

After the Romans had their fill afflicting Judas with all manner of abuse and torture, he was finally taken to trial. By now he had totally given up hope of ever being believed. So now when he was asked, "art thou Jesus?" He replied "Thou sayest". In other words, "you will not believe me if I say otherwise, so why fight it any more". His enemies (the Romans) then took him, mocked him, kicked him, cut him, spat on him, humiliated him, and tortured him. Finally, they put him up on the cross. It appears, however, that shortly after they took him down, he disappeared from his tomb (maybe to live in disease and torment and die later on if he was not already dead). The Gospel of Baranabas then goes on to describe how Jesus (pbuh) returned to the apostles to tell them of how God had saved him from the hands of the Jews and the Romans and how the traitor (Judas) was taken instead.

This is exactly what the Quran has been saying for 1400 years now; that Jesus (pbuh) was not forsaken by God to be killed by the conspiracy of the Jews and Judas, but that "it was made to appear so to them"

"But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear you witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). Our Lord! We believe in that which You have revealed and we follow him whom You have sent. Enroll us among those who witness (to the truth). And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them) and Allah is the best of schemers"
(The Quran, 352-54)

"And because of their saying We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger, and they slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; for of a surety they slew him not"
(The Quran, 4157)

The scrolls then go on to describe how "Kittim" (the Roman empire) and the kings of Greece would both try to take Jerusalem (the symbol of the faithful), but that it would be Kittim (the Romans) who would finally be successful.

"Some texts also speak about an eschatological prophet who will announce the coming of the Messiah, a figure similar to Elijah in the rabinnic tradition"
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 323).

Referring to the manuscript titled The Rule of the Community, verse 911-12, Mr. Schiffman says

"this text unquestionably refers to two messiahs who will be announced by an eschatological prophet and based on a the cave 4 manuscripts of Rule of the Community, the original publication team argued that this passage was added to the text later in the history of the sect. However, the evidence in these manuscripts does not sufficiently support such an assertion. As far as we can tell, the two-messiah concept was part of Rule of the Community from the time it was composed".
(Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lawrence H. Schiffman, p. 324).

"And when there came unto them (the Jews) a Scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession though before that they were invoking Allah (for the coming of Muhammad ) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came unto them that which they had recognized, they disbelieved in it. So let the curse of Allah be on disbelievers"
(The Quran, 289)

The Dead Sea Scrolls make mention of many more quite amazing and illuminating prophesies and parallels with the teachings of the Quran and Islam. There are also many parallels with the historical series of events presented in this book, such as the reference to the "seekers of smooth things" (simplifying the law of the religion) which sounds amazingly similar to the description of Paul and his followers who "simplified" the religion of Jesus after his departure and removed all obligation from it all the while claiming that his authority came directly from "visions" of Jesus (pbuh). He is even quoted, while preaching this removal of obligation, as saying

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ"
(2 Corinthians 113)

Sorry for the long post but the point is there is so much more that could be said about the Dead Sea Scrolls and their confirmation of the Quran and the missions of Jesus and Muhammad.

Peace be with you mate I will respond to the delimma about Jesus death under the Islam faith next

[agentxxx]

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

Sorry for the long post but the point is there is so much more that could be said about the Dead Sea Scrolls and their confirmation of the Quran and the missions of Jesus and Muhammad.

dont worry about the long post brother, i am greatful to you for providing me so much detail, i have saved it on my computer to read it throughly.
thank you,
God bless you all.

[unknownuser]

Hello Agentxxx

Let?s have a break bro and discuss something very controversial

Did Jesus die on earth before he was raised to the heavens?

I was surprised to find many Muslims believe that Jesus was raised alive "i.e. he never died", and because Allah knew that this confusion will happen, consequently Allah answered it in the Quran, let's have look at the verse where Allah said to Jesus that He will cause him to die "Natural death" then He will raise Jesus to the heavens

YUSUFALI Behold! Allah said ?O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.?

PICKTHAL (And remember) when Allah said ?O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.?

SHAKIR And when Allah said ?O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.?

RASHAD KHALIFA Thus, GOD said, ?O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.?
{The Quran ; 355}

(55)

-> It is obvious to me that Rashad Khalifa translation to that specific verse was the most accurate one

-> What is striking is this, the Arabic verse is clear, Allah said to Jesus "Ini Motawafika Wa Rafe'ak"

-> For Jesus to die on earth was a must for Allah because this is what He said in the Quran, and we know that Allah does not change His words

"Every soul shall have a taste of death in the end to Us shall ye be brought back."
{The Quran ; 2957}

(57)

In fact the same message that every soul must taste death was repeated in another 2 locations, {3185}, and {2135}, so why it is strange to accept what Allah clearly stated in 355 about putting Jesus to death?

The important fact brother is this, I really care less about this concept of Jesus non death then his return, all I care about, the Judgment Day is coming, while to a degree, I may believe in Jesus return, but this has no effect in how I believe in Allah, His prophets, His angels, His books and His Judgment Day. What bothers me though is this, many Muslims think he must return so he dies because he did not die yet.

The key word in hand is ?Motawafika? and it seems they understand it as shown in some English translations as ?takes you back to Himself?, again a total mistranslation for a CLEAR ARABIC WORD within its context that means Death, ?WAFFA?, while I agree it also means ?To Take Back?, but the context of the verses clearly confirms it means its common meaning which is Death

The Quran use of that Arabic word in all other locations meant death, why in 355 they take it as the other very rare meaning?

Let?s look at a few examples from the Clear Arabic Quran

?It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.?

(42)

-> The verse is crystal clear bro, the same word used ?Yatawafa? to describe both death and sleep, both share a simple fact as described by the verse that Allah remove the SOUL from our bodies when we sleep and when we die, for those who must die the souls will not come back and for the others who still has to live, their souls will return to their bodies. The argument of those Muslims can be even demolished here by using that meaning they prefer which is ?To take back?, i.e. Allah will take back the soul, and consequently because the soul came out of the body, the body must go into a death or sleep mode.

-> We certainly know that sleeping feels exactly like death and I can expand on this and yet by using the Quran. So for some Muslims to come and tell me that ?Motawafika? does not mean death, then they are wrong, at least it will mean that Jesus soul was forced out of his body and he went into a coma or sort of sleep ?the least?

?If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying) "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-?
{The Quran ; 850}

(50)

-> The word was used above and it meant death.

?Say "O ye men! If ye are in doubt as to my religion, (behold!) I worship not what ye worship, other than Allah! But I worship Allah - Who will take your souls (at death) I am commanded to be (in the ranks) of the Believers,?
{The Quran ; 10104}

(104)

-> Again

?It is Allah who creates you and takes your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much) for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful.?
{The Quran ; 1670}

(70)

-> And again

?O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).?
{The Quran ; 225}

(5)

-> What can I say?, well, and again.

?Say ?The Angel of Death, put in charge of you, will (duly) take your souls then shall ye be brought back to your Lord.?"
{The Quran ; 3211}

(11)

-> Further proof that it means death.

?It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.?
{The Quran ; 4067}

(67)

-> More proofs

From what I presented above, it is clear the that the word ? ? ?YOTWAFA?, can also be read as it is clear the that the word ? ? ?YATWAFA?, meas? put to death? , it is also clear that sleeping is a type of death created by Allah, so if Allah said to Jesus the He ?Motawafika? in 355, then it simply means the Jesus soul was forced out of his body, before his body was raised to the heaven by the angels.

The sunni/shita cults believe hard that Jesus return is was confirmed by at least two verses of Quran which we will look at later, for them this add further proof that he didn?t die. But I stated above, I agree that Jesus may return with the will of Allah, but his return does not mean that He was not put to death by Allah as He stated in His Quran ?Motawafika?, and I can?t see any problem for our God to raise Jesus again from the dead and send him back to earth to fulfil Allah words, in fact one of the sincere brothers Usama Abdullah ?answering Christianity? logic falls to the ground really hard, His logic that the Quran said in 1140 that all humans must die twice and live twice

?They shall say Our Lord! twice didst Thou make us subject to death, and twice hast Thou given us life, so we do confess our faults; is there then a way to get out??
{The Quran ; 4011}

(11)

-> With my respect to this man, indeed I like him and I use plenty of his work, some is posted above, I can?t accept his flawed logic that the above verse stated all humans will die twice and live twice, so Jesus did not die otherwise he will be forced to die 3 times, but again bro Jesus is a prophet, he is not like us, in fact he was working for us, so he is dealt differently by Allah, The Quran told us that prophet Uzair already died 3 times, he was dead, then Allah brought him to life, then Allah put him to death for 100 years then Allah brought him to life again, then Allah put to death again and we know that Allah will bring to life again on the Judgment day, hence brother Usama logic can not be accepted.

Now bro, let me comment on the two verses they use as a confirmation of Jesus return

"And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them."
{The Quran ; 4159}

(159)

-> The above translation to 4159 provided by the Dunni cult is 100% wrong, they think that the verse means before Jesus dies all the Christians and the Jews must believe in him, I say hold on a minute for that argument let?s finish the first one first the Arabic verse does not mean that Jesus was not put to death by Allah ?Motawafika?, simply Allah can raise Jesus again from the dead any time He wants for whatever number of times He wants then the above verse can also that all the Christians and jews will believe in him at one point of time and has nothing to do with him being put to death or not.

-> The important point they blindly ignore is this, why not this verse apply at the time Jesus was put to death by Allah according to 355 as I explained earlier?, i.e. there was SOME people of the Book who believed in Jesus, i.e. the verse might be talking about the time in the past just before Jesus was put to death naturally then raised, in fact the Arabic words are clear that NOT ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK WILL BELIEVE IN JESUS ONLY SOME as the clear Arabic words suggests ? ? i.e. ?Some of the people of the Book NOT ALL?, please check with an Arabic speaker if you do not believe me, it is strange to translate it as ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, you see if ? ??Min? was not there, then yes it will mean all the people of the book, but because ?Min? is there then it means some of them.

-> Now if we consider that the verse is talking about Jesus return, then I see no problem with that, Allah will raise Jesus from the dead again, send him to earth to do an important task, then put Jesus to death again, what is wrong with that?, Allah does what He wants with no restrictions

Well, Allah told us in the Quran that He put prophet Uzair to death for 100 years and He raised him to life again as I explained earlier, same with Abraham, Allah told us that He showed Abraham how He raised the dead, and He told us many times that He will raise us from the dead, in fact He already did as He brought us to life after we never existed ?dead?, everything is possible with Allah brother Agentxxx.

The second verse the Sunni/Shita cults use as a confirmation of Jesus return is the following, please note the translation provided by them

"And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment) therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me this is a Straight Way. "
{The Quran ; 4361}

(61)

->Again this verse does not say much other than a clear obvious fact, that Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah was a sign to the Judgment Day , the Arabic word used ? ? is actually more accurate to be translated as ?Knowledge? not ?sign? because ?Sign? means ? ? , while even if I consider it a sign then this sign has passed by the appearance of Jesus on earth for the first time, if he will appear again, then that is OK and I tend to believe that but the verse above can also be understood that he was a sign to the hour when he appeared for the first time to warn his people as all other prophets did, obviously this is clear from the message ? ? i.e., ? therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me?.

-> In fact the Quran has told us the signs of the hour has already passed

?Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them??
{The Quran ; 4718}

(1

-> While I understand perfectly that Allah may also be talking about the future when using the past tense because Allah knowledge is not restricted by time, all I will care about that the hour is coming and the prophets sent by Allah were signs to it and to warn the humans and to educate their knowledge of what they are heading for.

After all the above compelling evidences my Sunni brothers still argue hard that Jesus didn?t die and was raised alive, they brought to me a verse from the Quran suggesting that it was only Jesus that said this in the Quran

?And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.?
{The Quran 1933}

(33)

-> They see it like this, because the verse said ? ?, i.e. ? and on the day I die?, it means that Jesus didn?t die, I might have given weight to their argument however I wonder how they didn?t see 1915 where it was said about prophet Yehya the exact same

?And peace on him on the day he was born, and on the day he dies, and on the day he is raised to life?
{The Quran 1915}

(15)

-> As you see brother Agentxxx, it was said about prophet Yehya the exact same and in the same sura and we know that prophet Yehya died ?murdered? in one day of our history, and that is what ? ?, i.e. ? and on the day he (Yehya) dies?, their logic failed again bro, in fact they were stunned and could not answer me back.

My conclusion is this bro

1. I can?t accept that Jesus didn?t die yet, He died naturally according to 355

2. I may accept that Jesus will come back for a certain mission but that does not mean he didn?t die

3. I believe the majority of humans die and live twice but I firmly believe that prophets and possibly others can be excluded from that general law according to the wish of our God ?He made that law from the first place?, we have two examples from the Quran, prophet Uzair and Prophet Jesus, it seems for me that both went or yet to finish their sequence of 3 lives and 3 deaths

And finally bro, the only thing that makes me incline to believe the Jesus will return are the following two verse

"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
{The Quran 346}

(46)

-> Verse 346 clearly says that Jesus will talk to the people when he is a child as well when he is an old man, and hence 33 years old ?Jesus age when he died naturally? does not mean an old man which in Arabic ?? I lean to believe that he will be raised from the dead again to fulfil a certain mission, this description of Jesus speaking to the people while being an old man ?? was repeated in another location in the Quran

?When Allah will say O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said This is nothing but clear enchantment.?
{The Quran 5110}

(110)

Allah knows best

Thanks for reading my friend

[agentxxx]

peace brother Ahmed,
thank you brother for your wonderful posts, i not only love reading them i have also saved them, there are however few questions which i will like you to explain, but not at the moment.
i am a bit busy now a days so please excuse me for not replying in time.
God bless you.

[unknownuser]

peace brother Ahmed,
thank you brother for your wonderful posts, i not only love reading them i have also saved them, there are however few questions which i will like you to explain, but not at the moment. )
i am a bit busy now a days so please excuse me for not replying in time.
God bless you.

Peace mate

any time man, I'm sorry that I have not finished it yet but it will happen bro, I do many things at one time hence I don't get bored lol , but I have enough stamina in me because I enjoy helping other brothers and sisters to the best of my knowldge, it is an order in the Quran indeed

Peace be with you bro