To Andya Primanda and all believers in evolution
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Bro, the point is twofold, which you're sidestepping. First, humans and apes do not compete for the same food. Humans and pre-human species did compete for the same food, ie, herd animals. Pre-humans had "base camps" similar to human villages, hence they needed sites close to water, which "we" dominated.
Khi- Salam. Again i must say that there must have at least some species leftover. Moreover theres no definitive prove in the fossil record for any such claimed pre "humans". The fossil record is incomplete and the bones which are found every now and then are DELIBERATELY MANIPULATED AND ADJUSTED TO SUIT THE THEORY. There are many examples like that eg the piltdown man which has been shown to be a fraud and a deliberate deception. In 1999 some Chinese guy glued together some bones of a supposed transition btw birds and reptiles which was shown on national geographic as evidence for macro evolution. So what do these deliberate manipulations tell us? That the "scientists" in favour of this evolution are working for an agenda.
A second point is that today we are actually competing for the same land as the modenr ape, and consequently, they are constantly decreasing in numbers, which further illustrates my point.
Khi- Humans have always caused much chaos in the past as well as now. But no they wont since there are nature protectors(eg WWF) who are after such people and preserving the species as much as they can. Such good people were also there in the past. Also i dont believe that animals compete with each other to make others extinct. It is ONLY man who does that and all those extinct animals whose fossil remains we find are the cause of men, not other animals. Thats because man has a soul and can be good or evil. To claim otherwise would be degrading to GOD since it would mean that GOD's creation is imperfect which the Quran denies.
Not at all. That is your projection stemming from your opinion. Here's my opinion First, humans are not perfect.
Khi- Im not talking abt personality and character. Im talking about their physical design
Second, apes were only one step in the evolutionary process, which started from "dust". Third, pre-human species were alive and well, roaming the Earth, causing chaos and bloodshed due to their high intelligence but still animal instincts. It was soon after that God blessed this creature with "soul" and free-will and the ability to gain knowledge.
Khi- As i said animals before man could NOT have been causing chaos. This is exactly the point. Man brought the chaos and bloodshed because of his soul. Animals followed GOD's Law as they were submissive. It was man who became rebellious.
See 230
And your Lord said to the Angels ?I am placing a successor on earth.? They said ?Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?? He said ?I know what you do not know.?Khi- EXACTLY and the corruptor WAS ONE POSESSING A SOUL. This can be interpreted as Adam or Satan. Both have souls. RK takes up the latter.
How did the "angels" know man would spill blood and cause corruption if a species didn't already exist that was acting savagely?
Think about that bro.
Khi- Thats exactly why RK interpretes this verse in favour of Satan who is responsible for all this chaos. The angels knew that fellow. This view is also confirmed mathematically(see RK's app. no. 2, point no. 4).
The Qur'an also never says that the moon was made out of cheese. We should really stick with what the Qur'an does say.
Khi- The Quran has provided us with an example and that should be sufficient for our further inferrence.
And of course, you're free to believe whatever you want. But I disagree based on what is verifiable.
Peace,
TayKhi- As ive states above much of the fossil stuff is fraud deliberately put in a way to degrade GOD and therefore make His Existence obsolete. GOD Bless!
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Peace Idmkhizar,
Again i must say that there must have at least some species leftover.
You saying this does not make it true. This is why I gave you examples to research so that the truth might become apparent. When 2 species of animals compete for the same resource, and that resource becomes limited, there is usually a winner and loser. Another example of this is the African wild dog. It is almost completely wiped out because of the success of lions and hyenas in the region. Please look into these things before forming your opinion.
Moreover theres no definitive prove in the fossil record for any such claimed pre "humans". The fossil record is incomplete and the bones which are found every now and then are DELIBERATELY MANIPULATED AND ADJUSTED TO SUIT THE THEORY. There are many examples like that eg the piltdown man which has been shown to be a fraud and a deliberate deception. In 1999 some Chinese guy glued together some bones of a supposed transition btw birds and reptiles which was shown on national geographic as evidence for macro evolution.
Bro, please don't make me waste time plucking the evidence out for you. Just because there are a few frauds does not handicap the surplus of evidence.
So what do these deliberate manipulations tell us? That the "scientists" in favour of this evolution are working for an agenda.
It tells me that scientists are human like the rest of us. How can you condemn an entire philosophy because of the actions of few? Unless you can prove that every piece of fossil evidence is a fraud, then you're really overgeneralizing. Heck, I would even settle for 10 examples of this type of fraud. Even 5.
I dont believe that animals compete with each other to make others extinct.
Are you sure? Have you looked into the matter, or is this opinion baseless?
It is ONLY man who does that and all those extinct animals whose fossil remains we find are the cause of men, not other animals.
It's good to have your beliefs, bro, but in matters such as these, it's better to bring evidence to back up such sweeping claims.
To claim otherwise would be degrading to GOD since it would mean that GOD's creation is imperfect which the Quran denies.
You keep saying this, but you've never defined what perfect is. Do you deny the existence of dinosaurs? If not, then how is it perfect that they were completely wiped out before humans ever existed? This is your argument, isn't it, that it wasn't until free-willed humans that animals went extinct?
Perhaps perfection is in the fact that the Earth is ever-changing. Countless ice-ages and meteor showers and mega-volcanic eruptions attest to this.
Im not talking abt personality and character. Im talking about their physical design
How is the physical design of the human perfect? My idea of a perfect physical design would be the ability to fly like a peregrine falcon, run like a cheetah, swim like a dolphin, and have the strength of an elephant. What is yours? What is the Qur'anic viewpoint on this? How is a human more perfect physically than, let's say, a gorilla?
As i said animals before man could NOT have been causing chaos.
Did you know chimpanzees murder each other, for no adaptive purpose? Did you know they've been known to snatch up human baby's and eat them? Did you know dodo birds break into each other's nests and completely destroy them, so that they can have an advantage in finding a mate? Did you know male elphants kill rhinos when there are no females around during their musting period. How do you define chaotic?
EXACTLY and the corruptor WAS ONE POSESSING A SOUL. This can be interpreted as Adam or Satan. Both have souls.
Dude, if man did not exist before God mentioned this to the "angels", then how exactly, did the angels know the characteristics that would come in the future?? Can "angels" tell the future?
Thats exactly why RK interpretes this verse in favour of Satan who is responsible for all this chaos. The angels knew that fellow.
But that fellow did not rebel until AFTER the existence of man. So did the "angels" know satan would rebel? Or did he have a history of rebellion? Seems to me you're giving "angels" divine attributes.
The Quran has provided us with an example and that should be sufficient for our further inferrence.
The Qur'an speaks of those who violated the sabbath. You speaking of others not mentioned in the Qur'an is unsupported and thus conjectural.
As ive states above much of the fossil stuff is fraud deliberately put in a way to degrade GOD and therefore make His Existence obsolete
And as I stated, you're free to believe whatever you want, even if you believe something as sweeping and generalizing and presumptive as your above statement, and even without evidence to support your beliefs. That's one of God's many gifts.
Peace,
Tay -
Khi- Thats good. However it would then be strange for you to say that GOD created us through monkeys. This degrades GOD giving the implication that He had to practice before bringing out perfection.
Peace,
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Did you ever consider that God covered up his tracks?????
Made it impossible for people to establish as an undeniable FACT that he does indeed exist?
Isn't this life supposed to be a test? A test of faith?
So why would God reveal the answers during the test?
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Salam,
Can you provide evidence of a LIVING transitional form between humans and apes? If you cannot then this whole argument is nothing but conjecture or do you mean to say an ape suddenly jumped to a human i.e. punctuated equillibrium? If thts the case then it obviously doesnt make sense since it requires additional information which cannot just come out of thin air. GOD Bless!Not again...
Obviously you still don't understand evolution, and you still try to stir up controversy where it doesn't exist. Human evolution doesn't imply the existence of a living transitional form today, it implies the existence of transitional forms in the past. We have found fossils of ancient humans. I have shown you the evidence. But as you have told me long ago, you refuse to even study the fossils so I cannot convince you, your mind is closed.
By the way, the fossils found so far doesn't show a sudden change. Australopithecus is similar from humans from the waist down, while from the waist up it's a typical ape. Homo erectus is human from the neck down, but the erectus head has a lot of primitive features and small brain. Finally we have Neanderthals and modern humans.
I thought you're tired of debating me about this... why pick it up again? It's obvious that you won't change your mind, so why bother? It's not that I'm preaching evolution or anything here. I wonder if it's worth my time and resources trying to convince someone with a closed mind.
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Salam khizar,
Its a theory! its a very educated and accurate "guess" based on actual evidence found on this planet. If there was no evidence of evolution, then there is no evidence that evolution may even have existed. But there is. a lot of it. there is no way you can deny it.
and if you only oppose evolution because you think Islam does, then remember that it doesnt. This world was created by God himself. This world is a living example of Him and His system. dont forget that.
and about the theory of evolution itself. its the best we've got. until we find something better. if the theory is flawed (or if you think it is), then you dont have to agree. But whatever it is, i think its pretty damn close to the truth.
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Salam phoneix,
Salam khizar,
Its a theory! its a very educated and accurate "guess" based on actual evidence found on this planet. If there was no evidence of evolution, then there is no evidence that evolution may even have existed. But there is. a lot of it. there is no way you can deny it.
and if you only oppose evolution because you think Islam does, then remember that it doesnt. This world was created by God himself. This world is a living example of Him and His system. dont forget that.
and about the theory of evolution itself. its the best we've got. until we find something better. if the theory is flawed (or if you think it is), then you dont have to agree. But whatever it is, i think its pretty damn close to the truth.
Khi- I NEVER denied evolution in general. I deny random chance and blind mutations leading evolving ape like creatures to men. I never said that i denied evolution of the universe in fact the self assembly of the atoms which i very much endorse. I deny MACRO evolution however i.e one animals like reptiles changing into ammals or apes to men, etc. I believe GOD made it right the first time without needing to go through wasteful processes of developent by random mutations and natural selection acting upon them. I hope you get my point. GOD Bless!
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SaLaM idmkhizar
I believe GOD made it right the first time without needing to go through wasteful processes of developent by random mutations and natural selection acting upon them.
Its not about going through the 'wastefu process'. It took God 6 'days' to build heaven and earth. Do you believe it was due to trail and error? Or did God kept changing his mind? What may be 'wasteful process' to you, can be the natural process.
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Salam Andaya Primanda,
Not again...
Obviously you still don't understand evolution, and you still try to stir up controversy where it doesn't exist. Human evolution doesn't imply the existence of a living transitional form today, it implies the existence of transitional forms in the past. We have found fossils of ancient humans. I have shown you the evidence. But as you have told me long ago, you refuse to even study the fossils so I cannot convince you, your mind is closed.
By the way, the fossils found so far doesn't show a sudden change. Australopithecus is similar from humans from the waist down, while from the waist up it's a typical ape. Homo erectus is human from the neck down, but the erectus head has a lot of primitive features and small brain. Finally we have Neanderthals and modern humans.
I thought you're tired of debating me about this... why pick it up again? It's obvious that you won't change your mind, so why bother? It's not that I'm preaching evolution or anything here. I wonder if it's worth my time and resources trying to convince someone with a closed mind.
Khi- As i said before fossils cannot count stand up as evidence in any court of the world. Moreover much of them, if not all, have been faked while others WERE DELIBERATELY PUT IN A FICTICIOUS ORDER TO FIT THE THEORY and this is not science but pure speculation of how it might have happened. So the only proof would be to show transitional forms alive today. After all why should all of them have vanished? Doesnt make any sense and is highly unprobable but is just another excuse to promote the ape-men evolution. GOD Bless!
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Salam Jaxal,
Its not about going through the 'wastefu process'. It took God 6 'days' to build heaven and earth. Do you believe it was due to trail and error? Or did God kept changing his mind? What may be 'wasteful process' to you, can be the natural process.
Khi- This is totally different. Here GOD has set a time, which is logical, for certain things to come into being/existence and assemble themselves through evolution which i do believe and yes all this happened very much naturally. Lemme give u an example of the great white shark which erupted instantaneously out of the cambrian explosion. GOD calculated the atoms to settle and assemble at a particular location, so they did and voila a complete and perfect shark assembled. However this type of evolution is NOT random but perfectly calculated which cannot be said of the ape-men evo. I hope you got my point. GOD Bless!
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Salam Tay,
You saying this does not make it true. This is why I gave you examples to research so that the truth might become apparent. When 2 species of animals compete for the same resource, and that resource becomes limited, there is usually a winner and loser. Another example of this is the African wild dog. It is almost completely wiped out because of the success of lions and hyenas in the region. Please look into these things before forming your opinion.
Khi- Ok but as i said some transitional forms do adapt to their environment and can survive. Also evolution must then be an ongoing process and humans themselves should have at least shown some further transitions uptil now.
Bro, please don't make me waste time plucking the evidence out for you. Just because there are a few frauds does not handicap the surplus of evidence.
Khi- Oh but it does. Fraud DOES. If they were accidental mistakes that would have been different but fraud in a particular scientific community discredits all it's other "evidence" greatly. As an example when a particular political party of a country does something wrong deliberately to serve its own interests any further things would be doubted by the community even if they be right. A fraudulous party is likely not to rise again. Same is the case with ape-men evo "scientists".
It tells me that scientists are human like the rest of us. How can you condemn an entire philosophy because of the actions of few? Unless you can prove that every piece of fossil evidence is a fraud, then you're really overgeneralizing. Heck, I would even settle for 10 examples of this type of fraud. Even 5.
Khi- I think my example above should suffice. 2ndly your asking for such proof is totally absurd. We dont need to prove every action of a person as criminal in order to jail him either. Another qs Tay, are you a scientist yourself and have you dug up fossils by yourself and analysed them without prejudice?
Are you sure? Have you looked into the matter, or is this opinion baseless?
Khi- Ive looked into the matter and found animals in harmony with each other except where man has interfered. Have you?
It's good to have your beliefs, bro, but in matters such as these, it's better to bring evidence to back up such sweeping claims.
Khi- I advise you to go and search in places like the rain forest where man hasnt yet manipulated much and see how animals live there.
You keep saying this, but you've never defined what perfect is. Do you deny the existence of dinosaurs? If not, then how is it perfect that they were completely wiped out before humans ever existed? This is your argument, isn't it, that it wasn't until free-willed humans that animals went extinct?
Khi- Dr. Kent hovind has proofs that dinosaurs ALWAYS LIVED WITH MEN and men, calling them dragons back then, killed them. Dinosaurs were large reptiles probably superior to those today and i find this plausible.
Perhaps perfection is in the fact that the Earth is ever-changing. Countless ice-ages and meteor showers and mega-volcanic eruptions attest to this.
Khi- The earth is changing according to a fixed plan. Im not against that. Im against GOD creating imperfect beings walking the earth and/or competing against each other. This is exacty the communists view of the world. ape-men evo scientists are no different even today.
How is the physical design of the human perfect? My idea of a perfect physical design would be the ability to fly like a peregrine falcon, run like a cheetah, swim like a dolphin, and have the strength of an elephant. What is yours? What is the Qur'anic viewpoint on this? How is a human more perfect physically than, let's say, a gorilla?
Khi- His brain for example. But what i meant is that the human body is perfectly suitable FOR THIS ENVIRONMENT. Im not saying that it couldnt be better since GOD can always make something better than the prior so thts out of question.
Did you know chimpanzees murder each other, for no adaptive purpose? Did you know they've been known to snatch up human baby's and eat them? Did you know dodo birds break into each other's nests and completely destroy them, so that they can have an advantage in finding a mate? Did you know male elphants kill rhinos when there are no females around during their musting period. How do you define chaotic?
Khi- I told you GOD turned men to chimps and not the other way around. As for the dodo birds i believe men's intervention led to this chaos. Same goes for the elephants. It doesnt make much sense for me otherwise.
Dude, if man did not exist before God mentioned this to the "angels", then how exactly, did the angels know the characteristics that would come in the future?? Can "angels" tell the future?
Khi- See below.
But that fellow did not rebel until AFTER the existence of man. So did the "angels" know satan would rebel? Or did he have a history of rebellion? Seems to me you're giving "angels" divine attributes.
Khi- Not necessarily. That was only satans FINAL BLOW. Doesnt mean that he was not already somewhat corrupted and this is exactly how RK establishes his argument which goes in harmony with the mathematical code.
The Qur'an speaks of those who violated the sabbath. You speaking of others not mentioned in the Qur'an is unsupported and thus conjectural.
Khi- I didnt say that it needs to be 100% true but it is most probable and definitely more logical.
And as I stated, you're free to believe whatever you want, even if you believe something as sweeping and generalizing and presumptive as your above statement, and even without evidence to support your beliefs. That's one of God's many gifts.
Peace,
TayKhi- Ive given you logical reasons as to why my views maybe more resonable and probable. The rest is upto you ofcourse. GOD Bless!
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Peace Idmkhizar,
Ok but as i said some transitional forms do adapt to their environment and can survive.
Some? Yes. So I take it that we now agree humans are not involoved in every case.
Also evolution must then be an ongoing process and humans themselves should have at least shown some further transitions uptil now.
If that's your stance, then please tell me how long it should take for these transitions to become apparent? Furthermore, if a species is successful, then why would it need to transition?
fraud in a particular scientific community discredits all it's other "evidence" greatly.
Using your logic, every avenue of science, religion, arts, politics, and human thought in general should thus be discredited. Unless of course, you can name a branch of human thought that is completely free from any form of fraud throughout it's life.
I think my example above should suffice.
One example does not indict an entire field, bro. Again, if that's the case, then all knowledge is discredited.
We dont need to prove every action of a person as criminal in order to jail him either.
Correct. One person commits a crime, and he is prosecuted. We don't indict his whole family, as you have done.
Another qs Tay, are you a scientist yourself and have you dug up fossils by yourself and analysed them without prejudice?
I am not a scientist. Does this somehow cancel out my opinion? Are you a scientist?
I'll tell you this much, I used to believe like you do, reading only from websites that promoted my preconceptions. Ever since I've taken an objective approach, cleaned the slate, if you will, and did the reading on my own without prejudice, the truth has become apparent.
Ive looked into the matter and found animals in harmony with each other except where man has interfered
That's not what you said above.
Have you?
I have. And that's why I've given you examples to look into, which you obviously haven't, since you stated
As for the dodo birds i believe men's intervention led to this chaos. Same goes for the elephants. It doesnt make much sense for me otherwise.
You believe? Based on what, your impeccable judgement and insight that requires zero research? Please bro. Man has absolutely nothing to do with these natural occurrences.
I advise you to go and search in places like the rain forest where man hasnt yet manipulated much and see how animals live there.
10,000 acres detsroyed every day by man, and you say the rain forests aren't manipulated much? Nevertheless, what exactly would you have me look for in a rain forest that would strengthen your position? I'll do the research, just tell me what direction your research should lead me. Keywords will suffice.
Dr. Kent hovind has proofs that dinosaurs ALWAYS LIVED WITH MEN
Is he an evolutionary scientist, the same field that you claim has no credibilty? If so, why do you get to pick and choose your evidence? Nevertheless, please post his evidence and let us examine it objectively.
Im against GOD creating imperfect beings walking the earth and/or competing against each other.
Why is it imperfect? You keep using this word without defining it.
His brain for example.
how is a brain perfect? Please define the word or define the criteria so that we can be on the same page. Pretty please, with sugar on top wink
But what i meant is that the human body is perfectly suitable FOR THIS ENVIRONMENT.
How so? Brother, you can't say things and expect people to take you seriously without any explanation. Anyone can say anything. But without some sort of a logical backdrop, the words are empty.
That was only satans FINAL BLOW. Doesnt mean that he was not already somewhat corrupted
Please provide the Qur'anic verse that states this. What you are implying is a fundamental contradiction of the Qur'an's position.
this is exactly how RK establishes his argument
Really not interested in what RK did.
I didnt say that it needs to be 100% true but it is most probable and definitely more logical.
You haven't established a probability or a logical construct. So again, this is true according to you, but still baseless.
Ive given you logical reasons as to why my views maybe more resonable and probable.
No, you haven't.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Idmkhizar,
Here are some interesting notes on your evidence-providing doctor
http//www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
Hovind claims to possess a masters degree and a doctorate in education from Patriot University in Colorado. According to Hovind, his 250-page dissertation was on the topic of the dangers of teaching evolution in the public schools. Formerly affiliated with Hilltop Baptist Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Patriot University is accredited only by the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, an accreditation mill that provides accreditation for a $100 charge. Patriot University has moved to Alamosa, Colorado and continues to offer correspondence courses for $15 to $32 per credit. The school's catalog contains course descriptions but no listing of the school's faculty or their credentials. Name It and Frame It lists Patriot University as a degree mill .http//www.chick.com/information/authors/hovind.asp
Some quotes from your "doctor"
-I can say with all certainty that the Bible is the infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of the living God
-The universe was created in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6,000 years ago
-Dinosaurs were created with man and were on the ark with Noah.
-After the flood they were hunted to the point of extinction in most parts of the world by man.
-A few dinosaurs are still alive in various parts of the world todayI rest my case.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Khizar,
I think that "macro" evolution makes sense. I think Allah wanted it to be that way. We all know that God doesnt have to try and try again until He succeeds, but there must be reasons why. It was all part of the same process from the birth of the first cell to the first human.
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Salam Jaxal,
SaLaM idmkhizar
ITs not different. Its the same thing. Ok tell me, how do you think we all came to being?
Khi- The atoms assembled themselves according to a divine plan and then maybe through an explosion similar to that of the cambrian we came into existence from the materials of the earth. Or the atoms just simply self assembled to form the first embryo in the mud with special coatings to protect it. All of it, the place, location and the time of those atoms assembling must also have been carefully calculated. GOD Bless!
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Salam Tay,
Some? Yes. So I take it that we now agree humans are not involoved in every case.
Khi- Didnt get that. What do you mean by "humans are not involved in every case"?
If that's your stance, then please tell me how long it should take for these transitions to become apparent? Furthermore, if a species is successful, then why would it need to transition?
Khi- Some transitions should be apparent in all times otherwise it doesnt make sense. Why would we find no transitions, of the great contnium that would have to be there, in our time?
Using your logic, every avenue of science, religion, arts, politics, and human thought in general should thus be discredited. Unless of course, you can name a branch of human thought that is completely free from any form of fraud throughout it's life.
Khi- Quran Aloners who believe in code-19 i guess. They never did any deliberate fraud. Mistakes can occur though and i never denied that. The probs arise with deliberate fraud as i mentioned earlier.
One example does not indict an entire field, bro. Again, if that's the case, then all knowledge is discredited.
Khi- See above.
Correct. One person commits a crime, and he is prosecuted. We don't indict his whole family, as you have done.
Khi- Do you know that many scientific text books TODAY still have those lies in them which were proven wrong 150 yrs ago, eg tht the human embryo has gill slits was proven wrong yrs ago yet macro evolutionists dont bother taking that out of their text books. Whales having a vestigial pelvis is another lie which is consistently being promoted by macro evolutionists. Actually those are anchor points with little muscles attached to them allowing whales to reproduce and it goes on and on.
I am not a scientist. Does this somehow cancel out my opinion? Are you a scientist?
Khi- The point is im not trying to prove macro evolution which you apparently are. So the burden of proof is on you. And no im not a scientist but we have a new member on the forum "mbbmb" i think and he is a MOLECULAR BIOLOGIST WHO DOESNT BELIEVE IN MACRO ape-men EVOLUTION and calls it a fraud. I guess you should discuss it with him too. So yes this may just weaken your position.
I'll tell you this much, I used to believe like you do, reading only from websites that promoted my preconceptions. Ever since I've taken an objective approach, cleaned the slate, if you will, and did the reading on my own without prejudice, the truth has become apparent.
Khi- You know what ive listened to both sides. Just go and check out the debate between michael shermer(ape-men promo) and Dr. Kent Hovind and make up your mind. Im sure you havent heard those debates before. I did hear many of them and came to the conclusion that all of those who promote ape-men evo are insincere in one way or the other. One ape-men evo even became mad and red hot with anger. Thats the debate i ordered just a week ago and im going to tell ou what it was like after im done watching that. In all of the debates actual references are always given and one can check it out for himself. I know very well the concept of ape-men evolution. It is a concept which makes otherwise simple understandings complicated which is in direct defiance of Occams Razor, which btw ape-men evos boast so much abt.
That's not what you said above.
Khi- I urge you to go to a nearby jungle, if any, where man hasnt interfered much or very little and then see how animals behave there.
I have. And that's why I've given you examples to look into, which you obviously haven't, since you stated
...
You believe? Based on what, your impeccable judgement and insight that requires zero research? Please bro. Man has absolutely nothing to do with these natural occurrences.Khi- Again i urge you to go to places in the jungle where man hasnt interfered with the natural world. Animals tend to cooperate with each other but by the time man has got into contact with them the system seems to have gotten distorted.
10,000 acres detsroyed every day by man, and you say the rain forests aren't manipulated much? Nevertheless, what exactly would you have me look for in a rain forest that would strengthen your position? I'll do the research, just tell me what direction your research should lead me. Keywords will suffice.
Khi- You didnt get what i said. I said go to PLACES IN THE RAIN FOREST WHERE MAN HASNT INTERFERRED MUCH AS YET, if there are any. Otherwise take up other jungles where man hasnt interferred or only a little.
Is he an evolutionary scientist, the same field that you claim has no credibilty? If so, why do you get to pick and choose your evidence? Nevertheless, please post his evidence and let us examine it objectively.
Khi- Please go and visit www.drdino.com , youll hopefully find everything there.
Why is it imperfect? You keep using this word without defining it.
Khi- Imperfect according to me means things competing instead of cooperating for example. Walking the earth without being yet fully adjusted to its environment is another important example of imperfection.
how is a brain perfect? Please define the word or define the criteria so that we can be on the same page. Pretty please, with sugar on top wink
Khi- See above.
How so? Brother, you can't say things and expect people to take you seriously without any explanation. Anyone can say anything. But without some sort of a logical backdrop, the words are empty.
Khi- See above.
Please provide the Qur'anic verse that states this. What you are implying is a fundamental contradiction of the Qur'an's position.
Khi- How does it contradict the Quran? Does the Quran say Iblis had no evil thoughts before in his mind before he fell? I dont think it does.
Really not interested in what RK did.
Khi- Oh so you dont believe in code-19 either and that 9128&129 do NOT belong to the Quran?
You haven't established a probability or a logical construct. So again, this is true according to you, but still baseless.
Khi- Ok ill leave it at that.
No, you haven't.
Peace,
TayKhi- Told you that otherwise the matjematical symmtry of the Quran is violated which you probably didnt study as yet. I urge you to go through RK's appendices. GOD Bless!
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Salam Jaxal,
SaLaM idmkhizar
So your theory is that atoms came together ( according to the divine plane ) forming the first organism.
Evolution says the same thing.
Khi- SO? I NEVER DENIED EVOLUTION IN GENERAL. I DENY MACRO EVOLUTION IN PARTICULAR THE APE-MEN EVOLUTION, AS IVE BEEN REPEATING FOR A HUNDRED TIMES NOW. GOD Bless!