Al-ins/al-insan # al-jinn
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hi Jaxal,
How would u define 'mind'?
And what according to u is the difference between mind and brain?Peace!
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SaLaM PM
I dont know how to explain it. but the 'mind' is the non physical aspect of the brain. What im trying to say is that 'mind' releates to the brain. For example the sentence "I saw her in my mind". This is not possible for the physical brain. But that is where the mind comes in. 'Mind' can never be releated to our hands or feet or hair or toes or fingers. Always the brain. The non physical aspect of our brain.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
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What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".That is your opinion idolfree. The word for mind is 'aql' or 'zahan'.
So which one is it? Show me the verse where it is used also s I can check it.
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What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".First of all, i dont believe spirit = nafs. I believe nafs = soul becoz the word for spirit is RUH
Soul/Spirit/mind are all the same thing. the "ruh" is the "energy" which moves things, it is related to "wind" to symbolize this action. Stop following everything you learned in sunni masjid blindly brother we are not here to parrot the same things that sunni follow, we are here to discover the truth and to tie this all together.
Second, i do recognize that the that the spirit is seperate from the body. The brain is seperate from the spirit.
The brain is part of your body and it is the densest part of the spirit(nafs).
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Correct, and when is the last time you picked your own dream?Last night. Its called LUCID DREAMING.
Lucid dreaming is when you wake up in your dream, you did not pick which dream you woke up in.
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Hmm, so if we take it all the way back, it was "you" who also formed your own body in your mothers womb? If not, when exactky did "you" take over these functions?Im supprised you would think that. You are an intelligent person idolfree. when i was in my mother's womb then my mother's body was doing the work. Not me.
Congrats, you have taken God out of the God out of the picture like the Greeks did.
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But we are NOT our NAFS.No we are not. Hence why i say that everything we think of come from our mind. mind is not equal to nafs. mind and nafs are like night and day. Two seperate entities.
To speak in terms of "mind", we are the concious mind, that is our identity, then there is what people call the subconcious mind which is something we are in charge of, NOT US, NOT our identity, of which the human body is its densest form, thoughts and emotions being less dense forms of it. To speak in different terms it is the SELF, our identity, and the SPIRIT, not our identity. The ancient saying "KNOW THYSELF" points to this understanding.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
I dont know how to explain it. but the 'mind' is the non physical aspect of the brain. What im trying to say is that 'mind' releates to the brain. For example the sentence "I saw her in my mind". This is not possible for the physical brain. But that is where the mind comes in. 'Mind' can never be releated to our hands or feet or hair or toes or fingers. Always the brain. The non physical aspect of our brain.
The brain is physical, if there is something non physcial, how can you say it is part of the brain? Its only through conditioning that you relate it to the brain. I have no problem that you do so, but reconize that you cannot explain it.
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SaLaM idolfree
So which one is it? Show me the verse where it is used also s I can check it.
I have not come across it yet, but then again, i havent seen the Quran mention brain anywhere.
we are here to discover the truth and to tie this all together.
And brother what if the truth is what was being taught in the sunni masjid? Sunnis are not from another plane. They do have some common understanding with us. In any case, this is your truth. Perhaps someday i will come to your undestanding. Perhaps some day you will come to mine. We have our own path. We walk our own path.
The brain is part of your body and it is the densest part of the spirit(nafs).
Dear brother, that is YOUR understanding. Im SURE not everyone will agree with it. and one day you may realise that you werent right.
Lucid dreaming is when you wake up in your dream, you did not pick which dream you woke up in.
True. It also means you can choose your dream. Last night i went to bed wanting to dream of my country, UAE. And i had a dream where i was in my city. I became lucid, and from there on, i was in control of my dream. this is not the first time either. I have chosen my dream many times. You just have to come to grips with this art. Its beautiful.
The brain is physical, if there is something non physcial, how can you say it is part of the brain? Its only through conditioning that you relate it to the brain. I have no problem that you do so, but reconize that you cannot explain it.
I can see why you would say that. BUT, the same cannot be said about any other part of your body. Its just the brain. I understand the concept, i just cant explain it in words. Maybe telepathy would have helped
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Hi Jaxal, Idolfree1,
I dont know how to explain it. but the 'mind' is the non physical aspect of the brain. What im trying to say is that 'mind' releates to the brain. For example the sentence "I saw her in my mind". This is not possible for the physical brain. But that is where the mind comes in. 'Mind' can never be releated to our hands or feet or hair or toes or fingers. Always the brain. The non physical aspect of our brain.
The mind is the term most commonly used to describe the higher functions of the human brain, particularly those of which humans are subjectively conscious, such as personality, thought, reason, memory, intelligence and emotion.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindWould u agree?
Peace!
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I agree
peace
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
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So which one is it? Show me the verse where it is used also s I can check it.I have not come across it yet, but then again, i havent seen the Quran mention brain anywhere.
Ok, well lets deal with what IS there, and nafs refers to the spirit/soul/subconcious mind.
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we are here to discover the truth and to tie this all together.And brother what if the truth is what was being taught in the sunni masjid?
Truth is that which is verifyable, moons falling in a prophets back yard cannot be verified, as well as a mans sexual power 1400 years ago D
Sunnis are not from another plane. They do have some common understanding with us.
Not much, but again, if it is verifyable, then doesnt matter if atheist agrees, its the truth. D
In any case, this is your truth.
No, there is no my truth and your truth. There is my opinion and your opinion(subjective), but the deciding factor is objective proof.
Perhaps someday i will come to your undestanding. Perhaps some day you will come to mine. We have our own path. We walk our own path.
Hopefully we both make it on THE path.
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The brain is part of your body and it is the densest part of the spirit(nafs).Dear brother, that is YOUR understanding. Im SURE not everyone will agree with it. and one day you may realise that you werent right.
When you look at e=mc2, it becomes verifyble. Matter is only energy moving at a lower rate. Its the same thing.
Lucid dreaming is when you wake up in your dream, you did not pick which dream you woke up in.
True.
Glad you agree.
It also means you can choose your dream. Last night i went to bed wanting to dream of my country, UAE. And i had a dream where i was in my city.
I will not argue this point because it is true, but MOST people do not know or understand the process of programming the SPIRIT(subconscious). But is this something you do every night? Only you know the answer to that and if the answer is no, then you must admit you dont normally control this, so who does?
I became lucid, and from there on, i was in control of my dream. this is not the first time either. I have chosen my dream many times. You just have to come to grips with this art. Its beautiful.
I've experienced this several times myself, but I did not give the command for my SELF to wake up in the dream, it just happenned.
The brain is physical, if there is something non physcial, how can you say it is part of the brain? Its only through conditioning that you relate it to the brain. I have no problem that you do so, but reconize that you cannot explain it.
I can see why you would say that. BUT, the same cannot be said about any other part of your body. Its just the brain. I understand the concept, i just cant explain it in words. Maybe telepathy would have helped
Why cant it be said about any other part, why cant yuo say that about the heart? How do you know mind is not related to heart, ater all, this reading(quran) compares it to the heart. What is your response to that?
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Peace be upon you PM,
The mind is the term most commonly used to describe the higher functions of the human brain, particularly those of which humans are subjectively conscious, such as personality, thought, reason, memory, intelligence and emotion.
Commonly used does not equal correct, just like "jesus christ is lord" D
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Hi Idolfree1,
The mind is the term most commonly used to describe the higher functions of the human brain, particularly those of which humans are subjectively conscious, such as personality, thought, reason, memory, intelligence and emotion.
Commonly used does not equal correct, just like "jesus christ is lord" D
Please define 'mind' , in english for me without using any arabic words. )
Peace!
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Hi Jaxal,
The mind is the term most commonly used to describe the higher functions of the human brain, particularly those of which humans are subjectively conscious, such as personality, thought, reason, memory, intelligence and emotion.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindWould u agree?
I agree. wink
One other reason I wanted to know what ur definition for mind was becoz u said
Now who controls the heart beat and the food digestion and sending the white blood cells where they are needed? the UNCONCIOUS MIND. The UNCONCIOUS MIND is a PART of our mind over which we dont have direct control
Autonomic/involuntary functions are controlled by nerve pathways connected to certain areas of the central nervous system.
They have nothing to do with the 'mind'.Peace!
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Peace be upon you PM,
Please define 'mind' , in english for me without using any arabic words.
When people say MIND, they are really talking about "consciousness". Thats what we ARE, pure consciousness. What we call "I" is that which sees and decides. The ancients call that part "SELF" because it is our identity. But the part that carries things out is the NOT SELF, and its called the Spirit. To relate it to "mind", the conscious mind is "SELF" and the subconcious is 'SPIRIT'.
But agin, to answer your question, when most people speak of "mind" they are refering to consiousness, the SELF, which is the part of wakefulness and SEEING and deciding. This part if free of energy, at PEACE. The SPirit is the ENERGY part, and it is our servant, but unfortunately, most people are ruled by it.
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SaLaM idolfree
Ok, well lets deal with what IS there, and nafs refers to the spirit/soul/subconcious mind.
Yes, nafs refers to soul.
When you look at e=mc2, it becomes verifyble. Matter is only energy moving at a lower rate. Its the same thing.
And the tides are strong when the moon is low.
But is this something you do every night? Only you know the answer to that and if the answer is no, then you must admit you dont normally control this, so who does?
My subconcious.
I've experienced this several times myself, but I did not give the command for my SELF to wake up in the dream, it just happenned.
It gets better with experiance and i have plenty.
Why cant it be said about any other part, why cant yuo say that about the heart? How do you know mind is not related to heart, ater all, this reading(quran) compares it to the heart.
You mean like "I know this in my heart" kind of thing? well the heart is usually attatched to emotional subjects. It is something completely different than what the 'mind' represents. You will NEVER EVER hear anyone say, "I have a brilliant idea in my heart". Its usually emotional stuff like love and hate and other stuff.
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SaLaM PM
Yea sorry my bad. I confused the whole brain mind thing. I should have said
Now who controls the heart beat and the food digestion and sending the white blood cells where they are needed? the UNCONCIOUS BRAIN. The UNCONCIOUS BRAIN is a PART of our brain over which we dont have direct control
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
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Why cant it be said about any other part, why cant yuo say that about the heart? How do you know mind is not related to heart, ater all, this reading(quran) compares it to the heart.You mean like "I know this in my heart" kind of thing? well the heart is usually attatched to emotional subjects. It is something completely different than what the 'mind' represents. You will NEVER EVER hear anyone say, "I have a brilliant idea in my heart". Its usually emotional stuff like love and hate and other stuff.
In this reading, it says the message comes to the heart of man. It also says that someone who has thier mind made up is refered to as having a wrapped up heart.
(211 (yusuf ali) Say those without knowledge "Why speaketh not Allah unto us? or why cometh not unto us a Sign?" So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike. We have indeed made clear the Signs unto any people who hold firmly to Faith.
I do agree that the heart is related to emotions, but thats because it symbolizes the WILL, which is suppossed to direct the emotions. Bt yuo will see many translators use heart and mind as the same thing, because it the WILL is the opposite pole of consciousness. Consciousness is WHAT we are and WILLING is what we do. Willing has no power though except to chose, the SPIRIT(nafs) carries the willing out.
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Thanks, lot's of reading material to cover.
As there is a lot of reading material for me to cover and study some more, I think it might take me some time to go through this and figure out whats a good fit. Thanks once again for the help!
Indeed !
If you have some time, you can also read this post, where it is evident that the jinn are the religious leaders who are maintaining the cult of idols for the people.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63285#63285And do not miss the book of Shahid A Chaudhary, which is in my opinion a excellent piece of work (although it does not advocate exactly my views).
http//www.parvez-video.com/article_jinn.aspPeace
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Peace be upon you JM,
If you have some time, you can also read this post, where it is evident that the hidden(jinn) are the religious leaders who are maintaining the cult of idols for the people.
Do you see the contradiction?