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At least as far as I have seen, "Quran-based" people disagree on a lot of things, although I initially had high hopes for it, I doubt this movement can unite people any more than any other group or sect has done. Or was that even a goal?
Leena, may I just suggest to you that judging al-quraan and judging quraniyoon isn't or shouldn't be the same thing.
Al-quraan, as Wakas eloquently put it, should stand or fall on its own. When I read al-quraan, I see why it can be used as the basis of rediscovering the garden on earth and its concepts are mind-blowing.
However, when seeing the quraniyoon, myself included, I see the kind of baggage we carry and the laxity with which we answer Allah's call. THAT'S why no change has been made, not the idea of following God alone.
Why not take the driver's seat yourself and introduce some change to the world. The book you chose is more than capable of taking you there.
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Salam alaikum,
I do judge the people separate from the message/Quran. I was commenting more on the fact that each of us brings our own thoughts to it. This is one of the 'concerns' that I have heard from mainstream Muslims - that Qurani groups are even worse than those who follow hadeeth because we only follow our own minds.
Ex. I may read and study and come to one conclusion and someone else may do the same and completely disagree with me. Even looking at one issue, like the "punishment for a thief" articles and posts on the forum show some big disagreements.
Maybe I was just wishing for more unity and agreement... Naive?
I'm new to this interpretation, so don't take my comments very seriously. -)
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Hi Leena, welcome on fm
At first I have to say, that you got a real nice avatar! wink
This is one of the 'concerns' that I have heard from mainstream Muslims - that Qurani groups are even worse than those who follow hadeeth because we only follow our own minds.
Always when the strong uniting chains of laws, traditions, conventions, or any other constricting rules are aside there seems to be more chaos and disunity due to the huge variety of different minds and thoughts and perspectives. Look for example the (radical) leftist parties (I don't mean the state-ruling parties). They had much more fights/discussions and disunity than the right winged ones which are again protected by the conventions. When the strong authority is absent, there is space for diversity, new ideas, creativty which gives itselfs the possibility of more development. I believe that this debates are healthy and
so this development is very healthy and good for mankind.I think same applies to this board.
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Salam alaikum,
I do judge the people separate from the message/Quran. I was commenting more on the fact that each of us brings our own thoughts to it. This is one of the 'concerns' that I have heard from mainstream Muslims - that Qurani groups are even worse than those who follow hadeeth because we only follow our own minds.How are they worse ? Hadeethists rely on the deductions made by people they've never met before. Instead of relying on al-quraan itself, they project all sorts of artificial structures onto quranic thought.
Jettisoning the dogmatic weight of hadeeth is the first step towards rendering the true meaning of al-quraan emergent.
Ex. I may read and study and come to one conclusion and someone else may do the same and completely disagree with me. Even looking at one issue, like the "punishment for a thief" articles and posts on the forum show some big disagreements.
The fact people disagree with you is neither here nor there. What's relevant is that if you actually use the verses in your discourse. That's something sorely lacking as people have been influenced by the slogans peddled by anti-islamists. Once al-quraan's been allowed to speak for itself, the matter will be clear.
Maybe I was just wishing for more unity and agreement... Naive?
Not naive, but you should consider who you're trying to foster unity with.
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Mehdi i agree aswell... also maybe we aught not use 9/97 without the mention of 9/99 ... to make the full circle.. ( peharps mr. Safar did so and was not quoted on this thread doing so)
The third edition of his work takes this into account. Sadly, it fails to rescind the understanding that 'al-a'raabu' means 'arabs'. It doesn't, it's people who are outside al-madeenah (9/120)
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Salam alaikum,
Thanks warda, actually the "warda" in my avatar is from my own photography. Your avatar is very beautiful, too. -) I think I see your point about the group... I will keep it in mind.
mquran, I don't say that 'Quranists' are worse than 'hadeethists', but they said this about us. But I think their point is that "we" aren't scholars/haven't studied Quran for our whole lives/are touched by Western influences which taint our opinion about Islam. Please note that these are NOT my thoughts, I am just passing on to you what I have encountered.
As far as Quran speaking for itself, that's what I'm referring to. Words in the Quran are subject to our own interpretation (naturally) -- that's why mainstream Muslims read "obey the Messenger" and figure it means to obey hadeeth, why they read "cut the hand of a thief" and figure that it means to aputate his hand, or whatever... But they have some "backup" (they say) because they have "ulama" who have studied their whole lives. Again, not my opinion, but an observation.
As to who I want to be unified with, I suppose that would be Muslims. -)
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Salam alaikum,
mquran, I don't say that 'Quranists' are worse than 'hadeethists', but they said this about us. But I think their point is that "we" aren't scholars/haven't studied Quran for our whole lives/are touched by Western influences which taint our opinion about Islam. Please note that these are NOT my thoughts, I am just passing on to you what I have encountered.
Oh no, problem , im just responding to thier thoughts here.
I have often asked myself back then if I am simply being 'westernised' by jettisoning the hadeeth. The answer is obviously 'no' for the simple reason that al-quraan itself is anti-hadith. It doesn't allow any non-empirical information. I wasnt adopting any western method of scholarship. If I did, I'd have to find hadeeth acceptable because Western epistemologies differ from al-quraan's own.
As far as Quran speaking for itself, that's what I'm referring to. Words in
the Quran are subject to our own interpretation (naturally) -- that's why mainstream Muslims read "obey the Messenger" and figure it means to obey hadeeth, why they read "cut the hand of a thief" and figure that it means to aputate his hand, or whatever... But they have some "backup" (they say) because they have "ulama" who have studied their whole lives. Again, not my opinion, but an observation.Yes and have you also observed that their interpretations contradict al-quraan's own internal method? If you say 'obey messenger' means 'obey the sunna', you would have to account for the contradiction that al-quraan calls itself 'the sayings of the of noble messenger'.
As to who I want to be unified with, I suppose that would be Muslims.
People in the world who call themselves 'muslims' ?
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how do you see the difference of understanding of 'al-a'rabbu' to be of importance in this?
Well, al-a'raabu is not a racial term. 'arabu' (found in 41/44) is. There's a big difference between the two. One's a proper name and the other isn't, for a start.
perhaps, it's not so much the understanding of the Quran which failed him.. but more the understanding of the world around him which failed...
Perhaps, Al-quraan becomes detailed when you have information (41/3) so we have to keep seeking information in order to detail our understanding.
insha-Allah the brother can come here to explain to us by himself...
Not likely. He has his own site inquires to deal with.
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be it as it may.. that the term 'arabu' found in 41/44 is a radical term and al-a'raabu not... i can't see that being a main factor as to why mr. Safar would say
Which meaning of radical are you for here, sorry?
The beuty, the Miracle which is the Quran... speaks to everyone.. one does not need be a doctor or so called scholar etc.. to understand the Quran...
Agreed. One of the best scholars of Al-quraan I know was a watchmaker.
the more information that one seeks, or has... or attains.. much like wealth... is only a test... and depending on the individual... if the person is a person of understanding... and if you can understand that heart.. not the brain is the seat of understanding.. then it is much more simple.. than it is difficult to understand what Allah is teaching us through the Quran...
I'm not looking for simple alone. I believe al-quraan has a simple side and a side so complex that it would take a lifetime to gain a credible understanding. In my experience, deepening ones understanding becomes easier with philosophy. I benefitted from one of your countrymen, Dr Tabatabai's approach. He was a gifted philosopher, in my opinion and he applied this gift to his tafseer.