evolution!
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SaLaM warda and phoenix
Phoenix i was only talking about ourself. That WE can fall in love with whoever we want to. Just make up your mind and do it. I say it becoz i have done.
Warda, it has happened to me. Now imagine, if i can easily fall in love knowing that you shouldnt. How easy will it be to fall in love KNOWING that i want to fall in love.
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hi, i'm not really new here anymore. thought i would just post how i got here.
well, here goes...
i am 16 year old. lived in Saudi Arabia for the first (almost) 13 years of my life. Was born in Pakistan(karachi), though. The funny thing is, when i did live in Saudi Arabia, i wasnt a "good muslim" at all. i had a
mosque literally right next to my home and i never visited it(except for fridays).Over there, i learned a lot about our prophets, mainly Muhammad, though. I learned all these stories about the prophets and the angels which i never believed. I've always been a big skeptic. I was never told to read the translation of the Quran(and was told never to question anything in Islam, and that the universe was actually created for Muhammad to live on it). read it 4 times in Arabic, didnt understand a word of it. By the end of my stay in SA, i fell in love with this girl ( and still love her to death for some reason and i know mentioning her is not important to the story).
Then, i moved to the US. Lived there for 2 years until I really started praying 5 times a day, every day(i had a dream in which it was the day of judgement and all i wanted to do was keep offering salah. wierd). Over here, i learned even more stories that i didnt believe. My athiest english teacher even made fun of the 70 virgins concept in front of the whole class shockShe goes "...how mormons get a new planet when they die or how in islam you get 70 virgins.." while talking about different concepts of heaven. But i kept my beliefs and defended them, except for two things. One, that music is forbidden. Two, evolution doesnt exist.
There was just too much evidence pointing toward evolution for me not to know it was true. To find evidence supporting my claim, i googled the words " Islam supports evolution"(several times before, i had tried "evolution in Islam" which always gave me religious sites talking about how dogmatic evolution is and that darwin's mother was a monkey) And lo and behold, i was here. I was shocked at first. everything i reluctantly believed in turned out to be false. But i was happy. Happy that i could reject those hadith that had never made sense to me. I had finally discovered a way of life that made sense.
These days, i dream about what the world would be like if the muslims valued intellect, logic over wierd stories and long beards. I've learned a lot from this place and I'm still learning, still have questions, and hopefully they will all be answered. so that's my (long) story.
moral of the story you have to type in correct key words to find what your looking for at google. And do not fall in love with a girl who thinks your brother is better looking than you.
Do you consider yourslef "A prophet without revelation" ? that anything you like you reject and anything you like you reject. Our religion Islam always had been superior to our logics and science. If a scientifc conclusion gives evidence to some Islamic thought or prediction then its good convincing, but if some scientific conclusion is against the Islamic thoughts, then there is a need of more research in science.
Do you know how the Ahadis were compiled by Imam Bukhari? It was not so simple process. Where he had found even a single evidence of doublt about the authentication of some Hadees, He marked that as "Zaeef" or un-authentic Hadees.
I agree that every muslim should also try to understand the Qura'an by himself also. But if we only rely on our own interpretation and we reject any Hadees according to our logics, then what was the purpose of Prophet Muhammad (SAV) to come to this Ummah?
And behold, Beard is in Islam. Islam is not in Beard. If you find some negative character of a person having beard, that does not mean that every person having beard is same like him. If so, then what do you say about Beard of Prophet Muhammad (SAV) and his sahabah?
I agree that we should not totally believe in all the stories narrated by the Mullahs (specially in Pakistan etc.). But why should we reject each and everything and believe in fake philosophies of evolution??
And if you feel that all the preaching of Islamic scholars are just fake stories, then what do you think about the narration of different happenings in Qur'an?
The Purpose of the coming of our Prophet (SAV) was to show tha practicle example and explain the teachings of Qur'an.
The first Human on Earth was Aadam (Adam) (Peace be Upon Him). we are the children of Messengers. Why are you abusing yourslef and all of us by saying that we have bee evolved from monkeys (Naoozubillah).
Refer to the book which is available for free online "The Collapse of the Theory of Evolution in 20 Questions (by Harun Yahya)"
And open your eyes.In the west people think of love as only making sex. This is not the philosophy of Islam, sex is just the physical need of love. where do you find the spiritual need? For instance you love your family, your parents etc. Then what is amazing in this that Allah give us 70 Virgins in Jannah (Paradise). When there will be no ugly thinkings , no bad characters, no bad things, and they will live forever and forever.
078.035
"No vanity shall they hear therein, nor Untruth"078.033
"And voluptuous women of equal age"Our thinking can not measure this "Forever" living, then what is strange in this Allah Grant a Momin 70 virgins in Janaah for the life span of billions and billions of year?
Do we have to pay the bills if any person in Jannah is granted 70 wives?
And who told you that we will have only sex with these virgins?
If you dont agree then what do you say of having four wives in Islam?
If 4 wives are ok, then what about 70 in Jannah? Do we have the right to decide about the number of wives or our Creator Allah decided for us on earth and in Jannah.Allah Says in his book
5556
"Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them."
May Allah Guide us all.055.057
"Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?"055.058
"Like unto Rubies and coral"Sincerely,
virtualeye -
Honestly, having come across very few muslims that I would consider level headed or even entirely sane for that matter, I am first to admit I know very little about anything I think can come close to being "real" islam. To read that one CAN be a muslim AND believe in teh concept of evolution is a bit of a shock. A GOOD shock, but still a shock. I am glad to see that the two are able to coexist at least somewhere. You are, as has been said here, far beyond your years in wisdom. If I were you I would give thanks for the many experiences and the strong heart that has lead you to find a path on your own without someone having to tell you what it is. You are, by all of my personal standards, a very unique and intriguing person, especially considering your age.
Peace -
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peace sawtooth
thanks for the compliment. And i only know that evolution exists because of all the evidence. I see evolution all around me. I trust what I see (most of the time). And i bet i'm not the only teenage "muslim" who believes in evolution.
Hello Phoenix,
thanks for the compliment. And i only know that evolution exists because of all the evidence
I would like to know about these evidences which are moving you away from our Quranic Faith.
I trust what I see
Have you seen God?? Have you seen any angel? Have you seen Hell? and Paradise? Then why do you trust in God and why are you a muslim? I wonder.
You must admit that truth is not that all we see. There are somethings which are the part of our Faith. If some scientific research is giving conclusion compatible to Islamic facts then that is the evidence of the truth of our Religion. But if some scientific research concludes something against Islamic facts, then there is still a need of further research. Because there is SOMEONE there on the heavens who knows better than us what we see, HE knows better and we must believe in HIS sayings, not our illusive seeing.
Thanks,
bye. -
The truth that we CAN see is the truth given to us by our maker. Why must it all of it be either hidden or stuck in some internal saerch? Occam's razor .
The most obvious IS the answer. Don't complicate it.
I addressed Phoenix not you,
Anyway,,,We belive in what we see,,,,but my point is that we also belive in what we dont see directly (in case of our religion). And if we think that anything we seems to be gainst the saying of our Creator, then that thing or evidence in not actually misunderstood by us. That evidence is not actually an evidence but a misleading concept. Try to understand by the following example
Quran Says
1090 to 92
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And We brought the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh with his hosts pursued them in rebellion and transgression, till, when the (fate of) drowning overtook him, he exclaimed I believe that there is no Allah save Him in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender (unto Him).What! Now! When hitherto thou hast rebelled and been of the wrong-doers?
But this day We save thee in thy body that thou mayst be a portent for those after thee. Lo! most of mankind are heedless of Our portents.
"The above translated verses refer to the Firon (the emperor of Intiant Egypt).
Allah said in these verses, that he saved the body of Firon from total decay. Till the start of 20th century, nobody had seen the body of Firon, Non muslims (in the same manner of phoenix) asked muslims that where is the body of Firon, they dont see any evidence. But Muslims belived this divine Scripture Quran, that if Allah said that about saving the body of Firon as a portent, that it is True.
In 1902 (I have doubt between 1902 and 1904), the body of Firon was found. Now all the world knows about that body of Firon, which has been showcased in Egypt now. Still non-muslims are not convinced about the Truth of Islam.
Regards.
Virtualeye. -
The truth that we CAN see is the truth given to us by our maker. Why must it all of it be either hidden or stuck in some internal saerch? Occam's razor .
The most obvious IS the answer. Don't complicate it.
Give me your email address, and I send you a pdf file. That will help you know what I am trying to refer, My explaination power is limited due to lack of vocabulary etc.
Regards.
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peace virtualeye,
so firon's body was found, so what?
I am talking about saying of Quran.
I mean to say, that the muslims before 20th century did not find or see Firon's body anywhere. But still they believed that Allah has said that He saved Firon's body, then it is 100%. No Muslims said that I see what I believe, so I dont belive in Firon's body because I dont see that anywhere.
It was just a small example I remember, otherwise there are dozen's of more appropriate examples of believing without seeing. Certainly the biggest one is to believe in Allah without seeing him.
One more thing. If science would be correct in telling the reality then every scientist and logical person would have believed in God and perhaps embraced Islam. This is not the case in reality, which means science is not the answer to all our questions.
Previously Science (believing what seeing and thinking) told about the earth to be flat until 2 or 3 hundred years ago. But Allah told us 1400 years ago in Quran that the earth is like the shape of an egg of ostrich. And if you go observe the egg of ostrich then it is exactly like the earth.
I hope you understand my point, that we should not believe our mispercetption or misunderstaing that is against the saying of our Creator.
I have sent some files to sawtooth, If you give me your email address privately then I will also send you some files to have better understaning,
I believe that my explanation power is not so good. I will send you some reliable material.
Furthermore for a very good text on the net,,,,Please refer to
http//www.irf.net/irf/download/index.htm
and specially
http//www.irf.net/book3.zip
It is an eye opener for all Muslims and non-Muslims.
Regards.
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And one more thing.
The author of the books at www.irf.net , Dr. Zakir Naik, is a very well known Muslims scholar and an expert of comparative religions. His knowledge of all versions of Bible and books of Hindus and bhudists and Jew, is far far better than any peson who belongs to these religions. And obviously he has a very good understanding of Quran.
There is no non-muslim in the world who can win the debate challenge from him, because only a person belonging to the true religion can win the debate.
Regards.
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Hi all,
The author of the books at www.irf.net , Dr. Zakir Naik, is a very well known Muslims scholar and an expert of comparative religions. His knowledge of all versions of Bible and books of Hindus and bhudists and Jew, is far far better than any peson who belongs to these religions. And obviously he has a very good understanding of Quran.
There is no non-muslim in the world who can win the debate challenge from him, because only a person belonging to the true religion can win the debate.
I wouldnt suggest irf for Quranic teaching, coz they use a lot of hadeeth and include it alongside Quran and call it the islamic shariah.
Zakir Naik is good with comparitive religions and debates pertaining to that.
But he also inculdes 'sunni' beliefs and hadeeths into 'islam'.Peace!
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Hi all,
The author of the books at www.irf.net , Dr. Zakir Naik, is a very well known Muslims scholar and an expert of comparative religions. His knowledge of all versions of Bible and books of Hindus and bhudists and Jew, is far far better than any peson who belongs to these religions. And obviously he has a very good understanding of Quran.
There is no non-muslim in the world who can win the debate challenge from him, because only a person belonging to the true religion can win the debate.
I wouldnt suggest irf for Quranic teaching, coz they use a lot of hadeeth and include it alongside Quran and call it the islamic shariah.
Zakir Naik is good with comparitive religions and debates pertaining to that.
But irf also have 'sunni' beliefs and hadeeths incorporated into 'islam'.Peace!
Kindly refer to my first reply in this topic (on the first page).
I would just spot some light on this topic further.
If you are an educated and you attended school and college, then I ask you , did you ever say to your parents and teachers that I have learnt how to read the books so I dont need any teacher to teach me. I will try to understand all the course books and I dont need to go to school or college?What is the purpose of a teacher? The material is already there in the book? A teacher is the elaborate and teach the students in more practicle way and to solve and elaborate the articles from the course book. Agreed?
In the same way, Allah sent the Book Quran and sent the teacher Muhammad (SAV) to teach us "SCRIPTURE AND WISDOM" (according to the words of quran).
I will send you the references from the Quran in the next comment after a day or two, Inshallah.
And kindly try to understand my comments being neutral and not from the eye of an anti-sunni.
And before asking and putting me gather references, you should try to take some time in understanding the references from Quran I give.
Also I need to know, if you offer prayer or not, if yes then do you do Wazoo? if yes, then how do you know that you need to offer prayer the way you are doing, and the method of wazoo. Where did you get the method of prayer and wazoo?
Sincerely,
Virtualeye. -
Hi Virtual eye,
Kindly refer to my first reply in this topic (on the first page).
I didnt realise u were making the irf suggestion, for followers of Hadith. But, Peace. Every one is free to follow what they understand as true.
I would just spot some light on this topic further.
If you are an educated and you attended school and college, then I ask you , did you ever say to your parents and teachers that I have learnt how to read the books so I dont need any teacher to teach me. I will try to understand all the course books and I dont need to go to school or college?The teachers in school/college teach, promote nothing of their own. They merely explain what is in the books and authentic sources, and add no information of their own.
What is the purpose of a teacher? The material is already there in the book? A teacher is the elaborate and teach the students in more practicle way and to solve and elaborate the articles from the course book. Agreed?
Not really. The teachers only explain whatever is already in the book.
In the same way, Allah sent the Book Quran and sent the teacher Muhammad (SAV) to teach us "SCRIPTURE AND WISDOM" (according to the words of quran).
I do not agree with u on this, coz, according to my understanding, Prophet Mohammed is a messenger of Allah who was entitled with a responsibility of conveying/delivering the message(Quran) of God to mankind.
Other than that the Prophet Mohammed was a good and righteous human being. He was prohibited by Allah to make any modifications in Quran or make any new rules and claim it as from Allah."It (the Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him."6943-47
I will send you the references from the Quran in the next comment after a day or two, Inshallah.
I suggest u open a thread in hadeeth section, if u wanna discuss this. Its inappropriate in this section, dont u think?
And kindly try to understand my comments being neutral and not from the eye of an anti-sunni.
Don't worry. I am not anti-anything. My opinions/views are always based on my understanding only.
And before asking and putting me gather references, you should try to take some time in understanding the references from Quran I give.
I have been there, virtual eye. But I will surely look into what u present.
Also I need to know, if you offer prayer or not, if yes then do you do Wazoo? if yes, then how do you know that you need to offer prayer the way you are doing, and the method of wazoo. Where did you get the method of prayer and wazoo?.
I do pray. I was born in a sunni family and have practised the traditional salat. I still do that, becoz I dont see any wrong in it, if I stick to only Quran recitation in it. Though I don't focus much on the number of rakats.
At the same time, I understand and believe that others who pray according to only Quranic regulations of reciting, bowing and prostrating are right in their prayers as well.And I perform wudu as said in these verses.
56 O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.Peace!
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The teachers in school/college teach, promote nothing of their own. They merely explain what is in the books and authentic sources, and add no information of their own.
I feel sorry for you if that is all you have been able to get out of your education. I would suggest going back in a few years when perhaps you will be able to get more out of it, or choose your classes/proffesors more carefully. I can't say I have had a teacher or proffessor that did not add a great deal to the text since my sophmore english teacher in HS. Either you REALLY got the crap end of the stick as far as teachers go or you are still quite young and have not grown enough to see the things that were really taught. Good luck to ya.
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peace
so virtualeye, you probably also believe that the sun prostrates to Allah (who is sitting on a throne) everyday and asks for His permition to set and one day Allah will not allow the sun to set and tell it to go back where it came from.
You also believe then that Muhammad was the first thing Allah ever created and this world was created for him to live on. You also believe that meteors are actually pieces of satan falling from the sky because He was punished by Allah for eavesdropping on the conversation between him and the angels.
You also worship stones (face towards the kaaba and kiss the stone in it and run between mountains).