How Many Wives, can You have according to Quran?
-
Salaamun alaikum,
After rereading this thread, I'd like to state the facts readily available to us without much or any deduction about this issue
- It's very clear that in a normal situation, al-quraan doesn't say 'marry only one'. 4/3 talks about 'the orphans' and marrying them, not about marriage in general.
Peace mate
I have to disagree here mate, if the normal situation id TO BE FAIR in all asspect then the Quran said marry only one to fulfil this normality
also 43 talks about the Orphans in gerneral, IT NEVER SUGGESTED that those orphans are women, you see, the confusion on considering those orphaned mentioned in 43 as women is coming from 4129 where the Quran specifically talks about the orphaned women whom we want to marry and some don't pay their dowry to them because they are orphanded women
- It's also very clear that al-quraan doesnt address women and tell them to marry only one guy.
I would say it should be logical to understand, also bevuse he didnlt say to them mary more the one then we have to take it as one which is the common sense
- For those of us who follow al-quraan, its been a perennial concern of us to not make haraam what Allah didn't make haraam. And so, for us to say its forbidden to practise polygyny or polyandry.
we didn't forbid anything, we only aware of the fact that no man can be fair between two women hence the Quran said "Marry Only One" and that is normality as I see it, at least normality to be fair in all aspects of life
Al-quraan is very clear when it wants to be but for this case, it doesn't use the command form in a generic situation. There's anfiqoo (spend) but no 'ankihoo'. We need to explore the reasons behind this.
Ankiho in the Quran always means "to marry"
anfiqoo most of the time means "To spend money", I can't recall another meaning so far
peace be with you
-
AhmedBaghatalso 43 talks about the Orphans in gerneral, IT NEVER SUGGESTED that those orphans are women, you see, the confusion on considering those orphaned mentioned in 43 as women is coming from 4129 where the Quran specifically talks about the orphaned women whom we want to marry and some don't pay their dowry to them because they are orphanded women
I'm sorry I dont understand what you're saying here. 4/3 uses the phrasing 'maa taba lakum min an-nisaa'..'whats please to you from the women'. Who are 'the women' here? The verse starts with 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA', then it says FAankihu ma taba lakum...
Whom would you suggest are if not from al-yatama ?
-
AhmedBaghatalso 43 talks about the Orphans in gerneral, IT NEVER SUGGESTED that those orphans are women, you see, the confusion on considering those orphaned mentioned in 43 as women is coming from 4129 where the Quran specifically talks about the orphaned women whom we want to marry and some don't pay their dowry to them because they are orphanded women
I'm sorry I dont understand what you're saying here. 4/3 uses the phrasing 'maa taba lakum min an-nisaa'..'whats please to you from the women'. Who are 'the women' here? The verse starts with 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA', then it says FAankihu ma taba lakum...
Whom would you suggest are if not from al-yatama ?
Peace
well, yes the verse started with 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA'
those YATAMA are the prophaned in gereral any age any sex, that is how the Quran always talked about them and was also very high about the caring for them
the verse suggested a solution to that problem we have 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA' , which is "'maa taba lakum min an-nisaa'", I see the Nisaa as the mothers of those Orphans while this is an assumption for sure, but it is the ONLY ASSUMPTION ASSUMED
now let's see how many assumptions your understanding must have
- The YATAMA means only women in 43
- Those women Yatama are also at the age of marriage "not kids"
- Nisaa means other women who are not Yatama
you see you need at least 3 assumptions, i needed only one
but morally speaking you understanding will fail really bad, let's look at it again
we have a problem of men fearing not to be fair to orphaned women they desire to marry, can you please tell me how they can;t be fair to those orphaned women?
the solution is simply "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THOSE YATAMA AND GO AND MARRY UP TO 4 NON YATAMA" come on bro what sort of joke or teaching is this?
it is an invitaion to lust and only men are invited bro
those yatama will be sitting there untill they find someone kind enough not to fear to be unjust with them
come on bro, if we are fearing not to be just to the orphaned women then we need a solution that relates to those orphaned women not a solution that relates to the lusty men and just don't worry about the yatama, sounds like bible teaching to me bro lol
now assume that the verse means by the Nisaa as the mothers of those Yatama and you will see that everything will make sense and no conflict whatsoever will arise
peace
-
well, yes the verse started with 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA'
those YATAMA are the prophaned in gereral any age any sex, that is how the Quran always talked about them and was also very high about the caring for them
Agreed. Not caring for them is 'takzeeb biddeen' (107/1-2)
the verse suggested a solution to that problem we have 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA' , which is "'maa taba lakum min an-nisaa'", I see the Nisaa as the mothers of those Orphans while this is an assumption for sure, but it is the ONLY ASSUMPTION ASSUMED
Very humble of you.
- The YATAMA means only women in 43
- Those women Yatama are also at the age of marriage "not kids"
- Nisaa means other women who are not Yatama
you see you need at least 3 assumptions, i needed only one
The 'fa' particle in 'faankihoo' reads me to as a causal links. Further, the 'ma taba lakum' shows me that not all the yatama are picked. 'taba' is linked to 'tayyib' and so shows a correct suitability.
For your 'assumption', I can't accept it because according to my reading, if a word is used in the quran, it will be used in the places its required to be used. The word 'umm' means mother and isnt used in this context so I can't accept that possibility.
but morally speaking you understanding will fail really bad, let's look at it again
we have a problem of men fearing not to be fair to orphaned women they desire to marry, can you please tell me how they can;t be fair to those orphaned women?
This question is irrelevant to this discussion because we have no way of measuring the right answer. I'm out to find out what the text says.
the solution is simply "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THOSE YATAMA AND GO AND MARRY UP TO 4 NON YATAMA" come on bro what sort of joke or teaching is this?
It would be a joke if they failed to look at the rest of the ayaat, man. Remember 107/1-2.
it is an invitaion to lust and only men are invited bro
those yatama will be sitting there untill they find someone kind enough not to fear to be unjust with them
come on bro, if we are fearing not to be just to the orphaned women then we need a solution that relates to those orphaned women not a solution that relates to the lusty men and just don't worry about the yatama, sounds like bible teaching to me bro
now assume that the verse means by the Nisaa as the mothers of those Yatama and you will see that everything will make sense and no conflict whatsoever will arise
I'm sorry but these are your opinions. To me, a society which can understand why this will benefit them in the long run will follow suit. We're assuming too much here. Lets worry about the text.
-
the verse suggested a solution to that problem we have 'wa in khiftum alla tuqsitoo FIL YATAMA' , which is "'maa taba lakum min an-nisaa'", I see the Nisaa as the mothers of those Orphans while this is an assumption for sure, but it is the ONLY ASSUMPTION ASSUMED
Very humble of you.
so if you classify my understanding as very humble, would you classify your understanding as very lusty?
- The YATAMA means only women in 43
- Those women Yatama are also at the age of marriage "not kids"
- Nisaa means other women who are not Yatama
you see you need at least 3 assumptions, i needed only one
The 'fa' particle in 'faankihoo' reads me to as a causal links.
sorry what is casual links all about?
Further, the 'ma taba lakum' shows me that not all the yatama are picked.
yep, same here 'ma taba lakum' shows me that not all the mother of the Yatama are picked., but why you consider that it is refering to the Yatama, it is clearly refering to the Nisaa not to the Yatama, right bro?
taba' is linked to 'tayyib' and so shows a correct suitability.
so?, again same here exactly regarding the mothers of the orphans
For your 'assumption', I can't accept it because according to my reading, if a word is used in the quran, it will be used in the places its required to be used. The word 'umm' means mother and isnt used in this context so I can't accept that possibility.
again same here exactly, because the orphaned women were refered to as "THE ORPHANED WOMEN" i.e. "Yatama Al Nisaa" 4129 not as "Yatama" alone, however in zillions of locations it referred to the Orphans in general as "Yatama", i reckon I'm closer to the truth than you mate.
but morally speaking you understanding will fail really bad, let's look at it again
we have a problem of men fearing not to be fair to orphaned women they desire to marry, can you please tell me how they can;t be fair to those orphaned women?
This question is irrelevant to this discussion because we have no way of measuring the right answer. I'm out to find out what the text says.
sorry mate, the question is very important because this is how the fear will change the descision from marrying an orphaned woman to marrying another 4 non orphaned women
the solution is simply "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THOSE YATAMA AND GO AND MARRY UP TO 4 NON YATAMA" come on bro what sort of joke or teaching is this?
It would be a joke if they failed to look at the rest of the ayaat, man. Remember 107/1-2.
well the rest of Aya 43 adds weight to my understanding I will explain later today as I have to go now
I'm sorry but these are your opinions.
of course it is my opinions did I suggested otherwise>, however my opnion is based solely common sense
To me, a society which can understand why this will benefit them in the long run will follow suit.
oh yeh I can see that clearly many examples of that in the muslims countries of men abusing this right because they linked it to lust instead of linking it to caring for the orphan, sure it will never work when it is based on lust and indeed it never worked it only added hatred and agoney to the some innocent women
We're assuming too much here. Lets worry about the text.
well, not me, I only proposed one assumption, you proposed 3 lol
peace
-
so if you classify my understanding as very humble, would you classify your understanding as very lusty?
I wasn't classifying your understanding, I was classifying you as very humble for admitting that it was an assumption. It was a compliment to you.
As my understanding being 'very lusty', I am trying to maintain a spirit of neutrality and let the text speak out. Artificial moral judgements don't bother me in the least.
sorry what is casual links all about?
It links the situation in the first part of the ayat with other part of the ayat. 'fa ankihoo' links the 'al-yatama' with the 'ankihoo'. That's why im saying this isnt a general marriage command.
yep, same here 'ma taba lakum' shows me that not all the mother of the Yatama are picked., but why you consider that it is refering to the Yatama, it is clearly refering to the Nisaa not to the Yatama, right bro?
Because of the 'fa ankihoo' instead of simply 'ankihoo'.
so?, again same here exactly regarding the mothers of the orphans
The word mother, umm isn't there. For me, it has to be there to mean mother. I'm not going to assume anything.
sorry mate, the question is very important because this is how the fear will change the descision from marrying an orphaned woman to marrying another 4 non orphaned women
The fear isnt of marriage but rather of being equitable between orphaned women. Your argument that men will go marry non-orphaned women because al-quraan doesnt say its haraam doesnt make sense because they're doing so anyway. Al-quraan isnt a book, at least to me, where you need to scrape out meanings. If it wants to say something, it will say it and it doesnt say in generic, non-orphaned situations, its haraam or nahaa to marry more than one.
well the rest of Aya 43 adds weight to my understanding I will explain later today as I have to go now
Np, thanks for the discussion anyway.
of course it is my opinions did I suggested otherwise>, however my opnion is based solely common sense
Common sense isnt something objective and/or neutral. Culture, psyche etc etc, all play their roles.
oh yeh I can see that clearly many examples of that in the muslims countries of men abusing this right because they linked it to lust instead of linking it to caring for the orphan, sure it will never work when it is based on lust and indeed it never worked it only added hatred and agoney to the some innocent women
They're doing it anyway. In 'muslim countries' people are also not
perfoming iqamuddeen. It boils down to their sincerety, not interpretation.well, not me, I only proposed one assumption, you proposed 3
I can't accept your assumption as i've explained.
-
Peace Mquran
forget how many wives bro, as I can easily sense a change in the tone you are using to talk to me, while this is your freedom for sure, i was just curious, did I say anything that upset you or somethin?
peace
-
forget how many wives bro, as I can easily sense a change in the tone you are using to talk to me, while this is your freedom for sure, i was just curious, did I say anything that upset you or somethin?
Not at all. I was afraid I upset you for thinking I disparaged your understanding (calling it humble when i was complimenting you for being humble) which isnt the case either. A good discussion takes passion but at least we're addressing the points and opening the book. This is something positive.
-
forget how many wives bro, as I can easily sense a change in the tone you are using to talk to me, while this is your freedom for sure, i was just curious, did I say anything that upset you or somethin?
Not at all. I was afraid I upset you for thinking I disparaged your understanding (calling it humble when i was complimenting you for being humble) which isnt the case either. A good discussion takes passion but at least we're addressing the points and opening the book. This is something positive.
no bro, i was happy you described it that way
peace be with you
-
peace
are you guys sure the arabic word in the Quran is "wife." Coz it could be "spouse."
But if you think about it, women marrying more than one man is impossible. The existing husband wouldn't allow it. And it doesn't make much sense either as in most societies men are never inferior to women. Its usually the other way around.