evolution!

unknownuser

Hi sawtooth,

The teachers in school/college teach, promote nothing of their own. They merely explain what is in the books and authentic sources, and add no information of their own.

I feel sorry for you if that is all you have been able to get out of your education. I would suggest going back in a few years when perhaps you will be able to get more out of it, or choose your classes/proffesors more carefully. I can't say I have had a teacher or proffessor that did not add a great deal to the text since my sophmore english teacher in HS. Either you REALLY got the crap end of the stick as far as teachers go or you are still quite young and have not grown enough to see the things that were really taught. Good luck to ya.

U have clearly misunderstood me.
I have had good teachers as well and a good education too.
Here, I am talking in the context of hadeeth and Quran.
Teachers dont teach 'self created/invented stuff' in subjects like for eg,science, do they? And anyways, the teacher example is not really appropriate for Prophet Mohammed.

I understand u r not into religion.
I'll to explain to u, what I mean here.
Hadith-are supposedly teachings and practices of Prophet Mohammed, who we muslims believe, is the messenger of God (to whom God conveyed His message 'The Quran'). The Hadeeth were collected and written down 100's of years after the prophet's death based on recollections of stories and narrations of their ancestors.
Quran- Message from God. Written down as it was conveyed and preserved ever since.

God in Quran has some general ''do's'' and ''dont's''. For eg, Live righteously, Be just, Be humble, Be kind. etc and Man is asked to uphold these values and principles mentioned in Quran in his life. And Quran deals with all the core issues and values pertaining to humans.

Now, in hadeeth, U again find additional 'do's and dont's and some of them are quite absurd as well. They have instructions ranging from how to stand, how to walk, what to eat, how to brush, etc. , and many others based on what Prophet Mohammed did and said. (this is again based on recollection after 100's of years of heresays).

I dont believe growing a beard by a man makes him a better muslim or a better human being or takes him to heaven etc. Prophet Mohammed is supposed to have had a beard. But that doesnt make the beard growing holy, does it?

So, u see we do not need the additonal 'do's and dont's.

Also, God in Quran clearly prohibits the prophet from adding or changing anything from Quran or also preach anything on his own as from God.
And we are to follow God alone to be a muslim.

I hope I was clear.

Peace!

sawtooth

Now that makes more sense LOL

unknownuser

I would like to know about these evidences which are moving you away from our Quranic Faith.

I would like to know to bro if you manage to know please, but I thought this evolution thingy iis going for tens of years and yet they failed to provide a single conclusive evidence to support darwin big lie

peace

unknownuser

Mohammad mission was not onlt to deliver the Quran, but to explain/make clear to us those things in which we differ

?And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.?

(64)

-> We can read above that the prophet mission was not just to deliver the Quran but to explain ? ? a few things that we may differ, a very strong argument against the hadth rejectors, you see it is very easy to use the Quran to qualify any hadith because we know that the prophet should deliver it then use it to guide humanity and explain to them a few things that we may differ. it is like saying the Quran verses again in different way for further explanation because the prophet was only talking by the Quran.

the bottom line that becaise we have the preserved Quran we can use it easy to Qualify the hadith, ie, THE QURAN QUALIFIES THE HADITH

if the Muslim Ummah apply that simple logic, about 75% of the hadiths should be burnt or thrown in the rubbish bin and the rest is upheld by muslims "all united" as mere teachings by the great prophet that we managed to get hold on and in no way comes near the Quran, a very simple solution indeed.

Peace

sawtooth

Why do so many people STILL think that Darwin's theories are the most accepted definition of evolution? Yes, he broke a few bounderies and uncovered what has become the theories of evolution, but if you still think evolution means we come from apes, or other simplistic crap left over from Darwin's early work, you are in fact an idiot. There is no nice way to put it and I do apologize for that. Darwin was the pioneer. He was not around long enough to fully study his own work or be blessed by the mountains of technology and research that have come since. I think we need an updated, accurate explanation of evolution to use as the comonly accepted standard here.

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

?And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.?

Can u tell me who is 'thou' in the above verse?
Can u also tell me, who is 'they' in the above verse?

And also tell me, If Hadith was essntial, to understand Quran, why did not Prophet Mohammed instruct his people to write down his instructions? Why was Quran written down immediately while hadeeth was not? Why was there a ban on such writing for 100's of years after his death?

And also, according to what u say, would that mean, Hadith are required to explain Quran, since Quran is not clear enough? Isnt this contradicting Quran, where in Allah says its has clear messages ?

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

?And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.?

Can u tell me who is 'thou' in the above verse?
Can u also tell me, who is 'they' in the above verse?

And also tell me, If Hadith was essntial, to understand Quran, why did not Prophet Mohammed instruct his people to write down his instructions? Why was Quran written down immediately while hadeeth was not? Why was there a ban on such writing for 100's of years after his death?

And also, according to what u say, would that mean, Hadith are required to explain Quran, since Quran is not clear enough? Isnt this contradicting Quran, where in Allah says its has clear messages ?

Peace!

Hi Peacefulmulsin

I will get back to you tomorrow as I was busy all day and just about to go to bed

good night

peace

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

Hi Peacefulmulsin

I will get back to you tomorrow as I was busy all day and just about to go to bed

good night

Peace! No problems. ) Take ur time.

And in those questions, here is another one,
who is they who differ and in what?

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

Giid morning sister

?And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.?

Can u tell me who is 'thou' in the above verse?

Prophet Mohammad

Can u also tell me, who is 'they' in the above verse?

all of us

And also tell me, If Hadith was essntial, to understand Quran, why did not Prophet Mohammed instruct his people to write down his instructions?

no sister the hadith is not essential to understand the Quran what the verse says is clearly that the prophet should "Yobian" to us what may be confusing in the Quran. this in effect should be verbal to the people who lived with him,

The prophet once entered on a group of the sahaba and they were documenting his sayings in a book, the prophet was shocked and asked them are you writing my saying in a book that may compete with the Quran, you should not ever do that?, so the sahaba wondered, what they do then, the prophet responded by it is ok to talk about him but it is not ok to write about him, so the sahaba collected what the wrote down and burnt it, this hadith is in the sunni cult hadith book,

now if the prophet prevented documenting his sayings in a book, this suggest to me that we should have verbally inherited what they said about the prophet explaining a few confusing bits in the Quran, this is impossible to be preserved accurately over hundreds of years in which people suppose to just transfer verbally what the prophet said about the confusing bits in the Quran, so I guess it is ok at a certain period after the prophet died to find then analyse what we have regarding the verses of the Quran,

what we collect i guess should be put on a small book as a mere reference if needed when we differ in a specific Quran verse meaning(s)

for some they may not any hadith because they managed to understand it without any help for others they sure need the explanation by someone and who will be more qualified than the man who received this verse from Allah?

I agree that the problem of authenticating if the prophet said or not will stay as no one can confirm that a dead man said whatever other than Allah, so the heart, mind and freewill will play a great deal in what the individuals accept

I myself hardly referred to the hadith to understand a few tough verses in the Quran, the toughness was not from the language as I'm fluent in it, rather it was the fact I just could know what the Quran is talking about in a few verses like the beginning of sura 66, I can understand what every Arabic word means, but I could not know the circumstances in why this have happened so I referred to the hadith and as I expected there was many explanation, what i did i accepted the most of explanation that will not the Arabic Quran verses "talking about this specific incident" in fault and the problem was resolved to me.

The corruption of the hadith is evident from the many explanation they claim the prophet said it, I'm sure he said one explanation only to whatever verse caused confusion, but because humans can not be trusted in transferring the word, I believe what the hadith writers did 200 years after the prophet of documented his sayings as it is logically silly to transfer it verbally between hundreds of humans without totally been manipulated as time goes by

Those hadith writers fatal mistake though was simply they failed to understand the Quran message in 1664 and the prophet message, they might even did not look at it at all and just resorted to ?Obey Allah and His prophet? verses hence they suggested whatever the prophet say must be obeyed, this silly claim can be demolished using the thousands of unnecessary hadiths that has nothing to do with any confusion in a Quran verse nor it has any thing to do with the whole Quran neither it has anything to do with Allah and faith they simply followed the devil without knowing.

Also the order of the prophet ?if he ever said it? that not to put his sayings in a book may be obeyed NOT by the true believers who can under the circumstances of the high possibility of human corruption who suppose to be verbally transferring the hadith explanation regarding a few verses that may cause confusion

If any human managed to understand the Quran without any need of people without knowledge that should be great the point is NO ONE will be able to do that as stated in the Quran

I was actually one of the supporters that the Quran is easy to understand, while for me it is to high degree, but not because I?m smarter than others or somthin, rather due to my luck of having a native Arabic tongue, yet when I read it first it was too tough, then quickly it became clearer and clearer as I gain knowledge on history and others. In fact sister I have to retreat my many statements that I said in the past about the ease of the Quran, because logically speaking the Quran is not easy to non Arabic speakers at all also to many Arabic speakers, both are part of all humanity that suppose to be the Quran audience, therefore I have to conclude that The Quran is not easy or at least it should not be stated as a general statement

This is obvious sister from the confusion you see from all Muslims educated or not, they all differ in understanding many verses hence the prophet should have explained to us what we differ in understanding the Quran what he said in the past was circumstantial to a few who could not understand a specific bit of a verse, the prophet even may not talked about it at things that caused confusion after his death, so the onus on us to use our hearts, minds, eyes and ears controlled by our freewill to analyse all these info and come to a conclusion on the possibility if the prophet said it or not, the common sense honesty and the free mind of all influences including the voices of devil is so important here,

The point is sister the Muslims 200 years after the prophet death inherited this problem as well, however their silly solution to document every single word they heard about things that are not religiously sensible and has nothing to do with the quran at all or any confusion in a specific verse, now we inherited this problem and I believe out intellect and experience in life make us qualified to put this great problem into bed with the mother of all solutions that should unite all Muslims under the Quran and one understanding to it

While the solution sound simple, it seems to me that the devil will work even harder to stop it from happening, because he caused it from the first place and his great work as we can see it now will be very hard to be taken of him unless we all believers unite against him, I hope it happens one day sister, and I hope Allah destined to me that I see it in my short life because it really hurts bad to see many Muslims who are following nothing but conjecture, like the sunni and their terrorists, the shite, the ahmadia, the Quran alone, etc etc, they all are divided and some kill the others and this alone exposes them because division is a contradictory to the religion of Islam , there is a lot for me to say sister but I will stop at this for the time being but I would be happy to continue this important discussion with and possibly me and you think of a solution, I already though of many but I would like to hear what solution you may think of not to believe in the hadith or something, consider it you are a consultant and I put this problem for you to solve, what can advice you can give me?

Why was Quran written down immediately while hadeeth was not?

because the hadith according to 1664 should be circumstantial to a specific confusion arose by a specific verse and the prophet prevented putting hin sayings in a book as stated by the hadith itself, now we can overwrite the prophet order under the circumstances of lies and fabrication that started to circulate about him straight after his death and continued to go bigger for the first 200 years of his life until the Ummah decided to document his sayings to solve the huge problem but their solution lacked experience with the weak human nature to submit to the devil, a new solution now is a must for the benefit of all Muslims united.

Why was there a ban on such writing for 100's of years after his death?

Because according to the hadith the prophet didn?t WANY ANY HUMAN BOOK TO COMPETE WITH THE QURAN, I can show you the hadith if you wish

And also, according to what u say, would that mean, Hadith are required to explain Quran, since Quran is not clear enough?

nop rather the humans require to educate themselves with all available info to really understand the Arabic Quran so we have to look at what we have and filter it using our eyes, ears, minds and hearts and all for the sake of Allah and His religion that suppose to be a blessing to humanity

Isnt this contradicting Quran, where in Allah says its has clear messages ?

not at all, and that is what I though wrong as well, I explained to you above that logically speaking the Quran can not be considered easy for any non Arabic speaker, WE CAN SEE THIS CLEARLY, yet not easy for the Arabic speakers and we can also see the zillions of different understandings between all who claim to believe in the Quran including myself, HOW THEN YOU CAN CONVINCE ME THAT IT IS SIMPLE?

Well I know what you will do, you will bring a few verses that suppose to be saying this, Sister I was blind not to understand these verses, so please bring them all on the table and I will convince you that there is no such message in the Quran, if the Quran is so easy why we can see all that confusion started 200 years after the death of the prophet and that confusion still going very strong between all of us?

I do believe that the Quran is skightky above average lever for an arabic speaker and furher above that for a non arabic speaker

Peace!

Peace be with you

phoenix1

peace ahmed,

with all due respect, what is the point you're trying to make here?

unknownuser

peace ahmed,

with all due respect, what is the point you're trying to make here?

Hello bro

I'm just responding to peacefulmuslim questins and elaborated further on why I see the problem happened and why it will continue to happen unless all muslims united take any agreed on decisive actions to bring Islam back to its reality and the truth not the delusions many muslims are livinig in and they think they are true believers, I also asked her for her opinion assuming she is someone who is consulted to find a solution

also another point I made that I believe the Quran never said that its content is easy to understand and I would love to discuss this with any muslim who believes that it is for an under average human and that is what "easy" is defined I guess

peace be with you

phoenix1

peace

i would just like to say something to that.

who are the muslims? are they the people who call themselves 'muslims' like the sunnis and shias. Are they the christians or jews or some other religion?
There is no such group as the 'muslims.' Some people from each of the groups above could be muslims in Quranic terms but the muslims you are talking about are just as far away from the truth as other religions are. As long as they have blind faith in their hadiths, their traditions, their rituals, they are (of course) blind. And they are just as blind as everyone else.

So we shouldn't be just looking at 'muslims' but other people as well when we spread our message.

unknownuser

peace

i would just like to say something to that.

who are the muslims? are they the people who call themselves 'muslims' like the sunnis and shias. Are they the christians or jews or some other religion?

Peace

I meant anyone who wants to submit to Allah

There is no such group as the 'muslims.' Some people from each of the groups above could be muslims in Quranic terms but the muslims you are talking about are just as far away from the truth as other religions are. As long as they have blind faith in their hadiths, their traditions, their rituals, they are (of course) blind. And they are just as blind as everyone else.

well all muslims think that they are true submitters but I reckon the majority are flawed according to the Quran

So we shouldn't be just looking at 'muslims' but other people as well when we spread our message.

I meant by muslims anyone who wants to be a submitter to Allah, christians are included if they want to submit to Allah but not to jesus or the holy spirit hence they will become muslims

however I'm specifically talking about the ones that already call themselves submitters ie they became muslims

peace

phoenix1

peace

well, that great then.

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

I should tell u, ur posts are real longgggggggg!
Am gonna split my reply into a
2 posts. Coz it would get real long otherwise.

?And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.?

Can u tell me who is 'thou' in the above verse?

Prophet Mohammad

ok. Agreed.

Can u also tell me, who is 'they' in the above verse?

all of us

How does prophet mohammed tell 'us' , as in U and me and people living today? How does Prophet Mohammed make clear to us(as in u, me and all living today) those things, in which we differ?

And also tell me, If Hadith was essntial, to understand Quran, why did not Prophet Mohammed instruct his people to write down his instructions?

no sister the hadith is not essential to understand the Quran what the verse says is clearly that the prophet should "Yobian" to us what may be confusing in the Quran. this in effect should be verbal to the people who lived with him,

Is it 'what may be confusing in the quran' or 'the confusion that exsisted amongst people, relating to life in which they differed'?

The prophet once entered on a group of the sahaba and they were documenting his sayings in a book, the prophet was shocked and asked them are you writing my saying in a book that may compete with the Quran, you should not ever do that?, so the sahaba wondered, what they do then, the prophet responded by it is ok to talk about him but it is not ok to write about him, so the sahaba collected what the wrote down and burnt it, this hadith is in the sunni cult hadith book,

Exactly my point. The Prophet Mohammed was a good man who lived his life by Quran and guided people of his times in the problems they faced, according to Quran. He never claimed his own teachings as divine. He helped people of then to find practical solutions for their problems, by using Quran as his guidance. Thats what we need to learn.

now if the prophet prevented documenting his sayings in a book, this suggest to me that we should have verbally inherited what they said about the prophet explaining a few confusing bits in the Quran, this is impossible to be preserved accurately over hundreds of years in which people suppose to just transfer verbally what the prophet said about the confusing bits in the Quran, so I guess it is ok at a certain period after the prophet died to find then analyse what we have regarding the verses of the Quran,

If clarifications for verses in Quran were indeed required, and if the prophet was aware of that, why did he prohibit the writing of the explanation for generations to come, like he instructed Quran to be written down, for future generations? Isnt that indicative enough, that his sayings were not meant to be passed on, but only the Quran?

what we collect i guess should be put on a small book as a mere reference if needed when we differ in a specific Quran verse meaning(s)

let me use an example here. Do u believe that knowledge of human body during the time of the prophet, was the same as now? I mean, do u think they had the knowledge we have today about the human body?
If yes, explain.
If no, why ? Has the human body changed since then? Or is it that we know more through the years, by Allah's will?
To get to the point, Would the same understanding (based on knowledge of the people then) apply to now?

I agree that the problem of authenticating if the prophet said or not will stay as no one can confirm that a dead man said whatever other than Allah, so the heart, mind and freewill will play a great deal in what the individuals accept

Exactly. First, the prophet prohibited the documentation of his sayings. This itself is indicative enough that they were not meant to be passed over.
And these hadith, like u said, were written down after 100's of years after the prophet's death, based on recollection of people on what their great ancestors narrated about what the prophet said, did etc.
Dont u think this is kind of idolising the prophet? He was a human being, a creation of God. But when the hadeeth and sunna tell us that man should grow a beard like him, eat like him, walk like him, arent people idolising the prophet? I am sure he would not have said people to copy him like this, for he was a humble human being

I myself hardly referred to the hadith to understand a few tough verses in the Quran, the toughness was not from the language as I'm fluent in it, rather it was the fact I just could know what the Quran is talking about in a few verses like the beginning of sura 66, I can understand what every Arabic word means, but I could not know the circumstances in why this have happened so I referred to the hadith and as I expected there was many explanation, what i did i accepted the most of explanation that will not the Arabic Quran verses "talking about this specific incident" in fault and the problem was resolved to me.

Unlike some, I do believe some messages were specific to certain specific conditions that exsisted at that time. In that sense, Hadith might be useful, but only if it has some truth in it. Otherwise, we can also use history texts to gain understanding of those verses by relating to conditions that exsisted then. Like polygamy for eg, relating it to battle of uhud makes it more clear, doesnt it?

The corruption of the hadith is evident from the many explanation they claim the prophet said it, I'm sure he said one explanation only to whatever verse caused confusion, but because humans can not be trusted in transferring the word, I believe what the hadith writers did 200 years after the prophet of documented his sayings as it is logically silly to transfer it verbally between hundreds of humans without totally been manipulated as time goes by

Very true! Try telling one single sentence, to one person and tell him to pass it on to others . U would be surprised when u get to know what the sentence has become after it passes to merely 10-20 people. Thats how unauthentic verbal transferring is. Now with hadeeth, we are talking 100's of years and many people.

Those hadith writers fatal mistake though was simply they failed to understand the Quran message in 1664 and the prophet message, they might even did not look at it at all and just resorted to ?Obey Allah and His prophet? verses hence they suggested whatever the prophet say must be obeyed

Obey Allah and Obey Messenger would mean Obey Messenger who is revealing Quran......as in obey Allah by obeying Quran.

Also the order of the prophet ?if he ever said it? that not to put his sayings in a book may be obeyed NOT by the true believers who can under the circumstances of the high possibility of human corruption who suppose to be verbally transferring the hadith explanation regarding a few verses that may cause confusion

???did not understand this ?

If any human managed to understand the Quran without any need of people without knowledge that should be great the point is NO ONE will be able to do that as stated in the Quran

It is stated? Where?

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

In fact sister I have to retreat my many statements that I said in the past about the ease of the Quran, because logically speaking the Quran is not easy to non Arabic speakers at all also to many Arabic speakers, both are part of all humanity that suppose to be the Quran audience, therefore I have to conclude that The Quran is not easy or at least it should not be stated as a general statement

I guess knowing Arabic does help to know what is really written, coz u get to see the verses as they really are.The people who have translated the Quran, have sometimes, added their interpretation of the verses instead of merely translating it. But then, I also understand that even those who do know arabic, have different interpretations of the same verse as well. So, I guess its down to the person reading it, his intelligence, his clarity of vision/thoughts, closed or open mindedness, attitude etc.
The truth is one but when u see it with different visions, the truth is percieved different. So, its not just the arabic language that's a problem to understand Quran's message as it was meant to be.
It like seeing the clear blue sky through normal vision, u see it as it really is. If u see it throgh red glasses, it appears red, and if u see it thorugh black glasses, it appears dark. So, its not the sky that differs but the way we see it.
So, understanding of Quran is down to one's mind, heart and soul and even the QUran says this, doesnt it?

This is obvious sister from the confusion you see from all Muslims educated or not, they all differ in understanding many verses hence the prophet should have explained to us what we differ in understanding the Quran what he said in the past was circumstantial to a few who could not understand a specific bit of a verse, the prophet even may not talked about it at things that caused confusion after his death, so the onus on us to use our hearts, minds, eyes and ears controlled by our freewill to analyse all these info and come to a conclusion on the possibility if the prophet said it or not, the common sense honesty and the free mind of all influences including the voices of devil is so important here,

yeah, like I explained above understanding would definitely differ, based on the person reading it. And we do not have a prophet, today, to correct our understanding. So, its down to each one of us to make an honest effort.
And for referring to hadeeth for clarification, and using our sense, wisdom and knowledge to credit or discredit it accordingly, why not read Quran itself empowered with sense, wisdom and knowledge and understand the verses accordingly. We can dig up history texts from the time of prophet's time period, to understand the condition and life of the people then. History texts would have been better maintained and better preserved, dont u think?
Dont mistake me for being anti hadeeth. I see ur emphasis on understanding Quran's verses with the help of hadeeth, the ones which specifically relate to specific events. I just am not convinced by the authenticity of the hadeeth and there are contradictions among them as well.

The point is sister the Muslims 200 years after the prophet death inherited this problem as well, however their silly solution to document every single word they heard about things that are not religiously sensible and has nothing to do with the quran at all or any confusion in a specific verse, now we inherited this problem and I believe out intellect and experience in life make us qualified to put this great problem into bed with the mother of all solutions that should unite all Muslims under the Quran and one understanding to it

Yeah, how the prophet dressed, what he ate for breakfast, how he stood, how he walked etc are irrelevant details. Copying them is of no purpose to mankind. Infact its more like insulting the prophet himself.
For eg, say u present a very good intellectual speech at a huge international conference, having put all ur best preparation into it after having read and researched a lot, and at the end of ur presentation, when u waiting in anticipation to know how well it was recieved, one person from the audience comes to u, and tells u, that the colour of ur dress looks nice. How gratifying is that? Or a better related example would be people emphasising on 19 Number miracle from Quran or Arabic language miracle from Quran, when thats not the purpose or message of Quran at all.
The prophet stood for righteousness, goodness, faith, strength, humility, and all those values Allah tells us to follow. That is what he ought to be remembered for. And not that he liked green color and that he had a beard etc.

While the solution sound simple, it seems to me that the devil will work even harder to stop it from happening, because he caused it from the first place and his great work as we can see it now will be very hard to be taken of him unless we all believers unite against him, I hope it happens one day sister, and I hope Allah destined to me that I see it in my short life because it really hurts bad to see many Muslims who are following nothing but conjecture, like the sunni and their terrorists, the shite, the ahmadia, the Quran alone, etc etc, they all are divided and some kill the others and this alone exposes them because division is a contradictory to the religion of Islam , there is a lot for me to say sister but I will stop at this for the time being but I would be happy to continue this important discussion with and possibly me and you think of a solution, I already though of many but I would like to hear what solution you may think of not to believe in the hadith or something, consider it you are a consultant and I put this problem for you to solve, what can advice you can give me?

Solution for people to see the truth?
Well, There are a few things that I think are required for people to wake up from their comfort zone of blind beliefs and blind faiths.

fearlessness to think, question and understand.
education and gaining of knowledge in general, coz that opens up the mind.
3.liberation of mind and rational thinking.
understanding/realising that the relationship that really matters is between a being and God.
Understanding God.
If u want me to explain any of these, let me know. But for now, I am leaving it to headings, coz the post is already quite long.

Why was Quran written down immediately while hadeeth was not?

because the hadith according to 1664 should be circumstantial to a specific confusion arose by a specific verse and the prophet prevented putting hin sayings in a book as stated by the hadith itself, now we can overwrite the prophet order under the circumstances of lies and fabrication that started to circulate about him straight after his death and continued to go bigger for the first 200 years of his life until the Ummah decided to document his sayings to solve the huge problem but their solution lacked experience with the weak human nature to submit to the devil, a new solution now is a must for the benefit of all Muslims united.

1664 And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.
The verse says, Allah sent Quran to the prophet with which the prophet could make clear to people, in what they differ. This verse doesnt tell the prophet to further explain Quran with his own words. It merely says, to use Quran, to make clear in what people differ.

Why was there a ban on such writing for 100's of years after his death?

Because according to the hadith the prophet didn?t WANY ANY HUMAN BOOK TO COMPETE WITH THE QURAN, I can show you the hadith if you wish

) I dont want hadeeth for that. I do believe that the prophet's sayings were not meant to be passed on. Coz Its only Quran thats Divine message from God. Nothing else stands in comparison.

And also, according to what u say, would that mean, Hadith are required to explain Quran, since Quran is not clear enough?

nop rather the humans require to educate themselves with all available info to really understand the Arabic Quran so we have to look at what we have and filter it using our eyes, ears, minds and hearts and all for the sake of Allah and His religion that suppose to be a blessing to humanity

History can be better relied on, than the hadeeth, becoz they would have been better recorded. But then again, understanding of Quran does require a clear unbiased vision, and knowledge and wisdom. And this understanding of the verses would grow/get better with time, becoz I think, some verses have a deeper meaning to it. Our understanding is limited to our knowledge. So was the understanding of our great great ancestors who lived back then. Propably, the future generations can understand more intricate details. So, I guess, the understanding is quite relative and limited to our knowledge.

Isnt this contradicting Quran, where in Allah says its has clear messages ?

not at all, and that is what I though wrong as well, I explained to you above that logically speaking the Quran can not be considered easy for any non Arabic speaker, WE CAN SEE THIS CLEARLY, yet not easy for the Arabic speakers and we can also see the zillions of different understandings between all who claim to believe in the Quran including myself,

Ok, Lets analyse this.
People who know arabic yeah, they are likely to know what is really written in those verses. But not necessarily understand. Understanding is down to one's mind, clarity, intelligence, wisdom, experience etc.
People who dont know arabic They rely on translations. And now these translations, may or may not be accurate and most of the time, its the interpretation of the translator that comes across and not necessarily what the verses really are. So, Thats why I say, We need word to word translations of arabic Quran, with all possible dictionary meanings, of every word. Then people can read Quran in their own language and form their own understanding and interpretation, instead of trying to rely on other's interpretation. They can see the actual, real message for themselves, instead of seeing it through another person's eyes.

Well I know what you will do, you will bring a few verses that suppose to be saying this, Sister I was blind not to understand these verses, so please bring them all on the table and I will convince you that there is no such message in the Quran, if the Quran is so easy why we can see all that confusion started 200 years after the death of the prophet and that confusion still going very strong between all of us?

5417 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
Message saying that the Quran is simple and clear? U r right. There are many verses. Like I said, I do believe Quran is clear , but our vision varies. And that depends on various factors. But no matter what, no one who reads Quran with honesty, can miss the core of the message that there is One God and that we all are asked to live this life righteously and that we are accountable for every deed, on the day of judgement, and accordingly we shall be punished. No one can miss out this message, can they? No matter how the understanding of the miracle verses and other verses differ. Show me one person who reads Quran and misunderstands that our creator is not one, or that he is a son of someone etc. The core is clear, isnt it?

I do believe that the Quran is skightky above average lever for an arabic speaker and furher above that for a non arabic speaker

I kind of disagree. The understanding really depends on the person. But any person with average intelligence can definitely grasp the core of the message. There might be difference in understanding over some mystique, deep verses, and the understanding of those depends on the person. And its not about the language either. I do understand knowing the language helps in knowing what the verses are, but that doesnt necessarily guarantee correct understanding of the verses.
But it would help if people who know arabic translate quran word to word, with all possible meanings of each word, so that a non arabic speaker can read as it is and accquire his own understanding. The lacking of which is responsible for so many different translations in english and much more confusions. Coz very few muslims actually know arabic.

Peace!

jonny_k

Salam bro Bahgat and siter PM,

AhmedBahgat wrote
I myself hardly referred to the hadith to understand a few tough verses in the Quran, the toughness was not from the language as I'm fluent in it, rather it was the fact I just could know what the Quran is talking about in a few verses like the beginning of sura 66, I can understand what every Arabic word means, but I could not know the circumstances in why this have happened so I referred to the hadith and as I expected there was many explanation, what i did i accepted the most of explanation that will not the Arabic Quran verses "talking about this specific incident" in fault and the problem was resolved to me.

Unlike some, I do believe some messages were specific to certain specific conditions that exsisted at that time. In that sense, Hadith might be useful, but only if it has some truth in it. Otherwise, we can also use history texts to gain understanding of those verses by relating to conditions that exsisted then. Like polygamy for eg, relating it to battle of uhud makes it more clear, doesnt it?

JK- This is exactly what RK said too. He was also of the opnion that hadith may be used for HISTORICAL REFERENCE ONLY. So it doesnt conflict with the Quran Alone philosophy at all and i agree with you that some verses refer to a particular time and so did RK and other Quran Aloners. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

at school, you were the WARNER but now it's vice-versa. you see, everybody looks at life differntly, because that's how they grew up and that's how they support their 'thesis statement'. i have a similar theory of evolution which NEVER contradicts the quran. read (265) in the hadith story it has been stated that they died after 'three days' but i think that was the origin of primates ! ? ! ? ! ? that's why science makes sense that's why 'the evidence you told me about in school' makes sense. also whenever god tells you to do/accept somthing he doesn't IMPLY OR 'OH, THE QURAN IS SYMBOLIC BAL.. BLA.. BLA..' no, he tells us directly that' DO NOT TRNSGRESS' but there are discoveries that mankind must use their senses to find out themselves using what they have. and besides, those discoveries will change 'what we hide or conceal at our chests' anyways..... allah implied how he created mankind/evolution in the quran, so it is not IMPERATIVE that he DIVERSIFY JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T AGREE ON EVOLUTION because the theory was implied in the quran so therefore, 'men must not be argumentative.....' we should simply accept like you always have been telling me at school before having introduced to this site.....'be patient, always follow WHAT MAKES SENSE' i shouldn't accuse you for what you think because hay, you have your cause/thesis towards life, and i have mine.........

phoenix1

peace rifat,

Let's say i tell you a story which goes something like this
"i fell from a cliff 50 thousand feet high, hit the ground, and survived" and then i tell you that i sometimes talk in figurative language, and i tell you to use reasoning and verification.
I am the quran (in the above passage). If you use reasoning and logic to understand that story literally, it will make no sense. Yet it does have a meaning. It does make sense.

Zantetsuken

i have a similar theory of evolution which NEVER contradicts the quran. read (265) in the hadith story it has been stated that they died after 'three days' but i think that was the origin of primates )

Hi I'd like to hear more of your theory. How did this mark the beggining of the primates? They were humans before, then God erased humans on earth and allowed them to evolve back to humans eventually?