The point of all this.
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It is all very well discussing various things but what about actually putting something into practice?
If this is all about deeds, then why not do? Is this only going to be about talking? I'm not saying discussing is bad, but do you discuss for the rest of your days and thats it?
Just wondering what you thought roll
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It is all very well discussing various things but what about actually putting something into practice?
If this is all about deeds, then why not do? Is this only going to be about talking? I'm not saying discussing is bad, but do you discuss for the rest of your days and thats it?
Just wondering what you thought roll
what deed , except discussion ,can one do on a forum ? ?
salam. -
I'm talking about doing the right deeds in practice.
I live in a city where I see alienation, misery, lonliness, homelessness hostility existing, and I think with a helping hand thru organisation something can be helped to remedy these problems, no?
If al-zakat can be interpreted as 'bettering', then this would be that. I'm just saying that, whilst discussion is fine, it is only a small part of the whole point of anything that is being discussed here fellas.
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TAFKAG
It is all very well discussing various things but what about actually putting something into practice?
If this is all about deeds, then why not do? Is this only going to be about talking? I'm not saying discussing is bad, but do you discuss for the rest of your days and thats it?
Indeed. We will be judged for our amaal, not our words.
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TAFKAG
It is all very well discussing various things but what about actually putting something into practice?
If this is all about deeds, then why not do? Is this only going to be about talking? I'm not saying discussing is bad, but do you discuss for the rest of your days and thats it?
Indeed. We will be judged for our amaal, not our words.
Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions.
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Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested (29/2)
note no verse stating 'men wont be left alone ACTING as muslims without being tested'.O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not? (61/2)
note no verse stating 'why do you that which you did not say'.Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!(99/7)
note no verse stating 'any who said a weight of good shall see it'. -
Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested (29/2)
note no verse stating 'men wont be left alone ACTING as muslims without being tested'.O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not? (61/2)
note no verse stating 'why do you that which you did not say'.Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!(99/7)
note no verse stating 'any who said a weight of good shall see it'.There are abundance of verses in the Quran that emphasizes the importance of both utterances and actions. Very natural. What you say and what you do are of utmost relevance in living a righteous life and there's no way you can twist and turn to refute them. Sorry dude, once again it won't work.
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There are abundance of verses in the Quran that emphasizes the importance of both utterances and actions. Very natural. What you say and what you do are of utmost relevance in living a righteous life and there's no way you can twist and turn to refute them. Sorry dude, once again it won't work.
Abundance of verses? Want to me show me one please? One that shows judgement is based on saying as much as doing.
Show me how im TWISTING the verse, please )
As for 'won't work', please don't think I care whether you accept quranic ayaat or not. As I told you, my job is simply to quote the ayaat to disprove falsehoods. Whether people accept it or not, not my affair. Ego gratification doesn't interest me, im afraid.
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There are abundance of verses in the Quran that emphasizes the importance of both utterances and actions. Very natural. What you say and what you do are of utmost relevance in living a righteous life and there's no way you can twist and turn to refute them. Sorry dude, once again it won't work.
Abundance of verses? Want to me show me one please? One that shows judgement is based on saying as much as doing.
Show me how im TWISTING the verse, please )
As for 'won't work', please don't think I care whether you accept quranic ayaat or not. As I told you, my job is simply to quote the ayaat to disprove falsehoods. Whether people accept it or not, not my affair. Ego gratification doesn't interest me, im afraid.
If everything that you claim and request for from the Quran, was mentioned verbatim, explicit and well defined, then what the heck are you doing here trying to study, educate and make a sense of the verses. Besides, the Quran wouldn't be talking about intellect, reflect and reason, out of thin air, now would it? Twisting and turning to bring about a question that begs to explicitly call for "judgement on utterances" as verbatim mentioned in the Quran, shows how dense and ignorant you are.
If it wasn't because of Muhammad's utterances (GOD's Words), you wouldn't be holding this discussion, not to mention the Quan itself, LOL!! Stop daydreaming and get real.
The importance and undersanding of utterances 2113, 2118, 2204, 2225, 378, 3147, 3167, 3181, 442, 4122, 4148, 4156, 563, 564, 589, 5116, 669, 75, 930, 974, 1065, 11105, 1597, 1662, 16116, 1740, 1743, 17110, 185, 1979, 1989, 20104, 20109, 20114, 20130, 2118, 21110, 2362, 2451, 254, 2563, 334, 3370, 3676, 3817, 3884, 4133, 4721, 4811, 5018, 5039, 5045, 5625, 5626, 588, 6713, 6940, 6941, 6744, 724, 725, 7838, 8119.
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If everything that you claim and request for from the Quran, was mentioned verbatim, explicit and well defined, then what the heck are you doing here trying to study, educate and make a sense of the verses. Besides, the Quran wouldn't be talking about intellect, reflect and reason, out of thin air, now would it? Twisting and turning to bring about a question that begs to explicitly call for "judgement on utterances" as verbatim mentioned in the Quran, shows how dense and ignorant you are.
No need for verbatim mentioning at all. Sadly, your assertion is contrary to al-quraan's teachings. Big difference between 'not mentioned in verbatim' and 'contradicting'.
If it wasn't because of Muhammad's utterances (GOD's Words), you wouldn't be holding this discussion, not to mention the Quan itself, LOL!! Stop daydreaming and get real.
Indeed, but that's not the issue here, is it? The issue is as, you said
Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions.
According to al-quraan, this is false. It's amaal, not qaul which will be judged upon. I believe al-quraan is from Allah and thus its language is precise.
The importance and undersanding of utterances 2113, 2118, 2204, 2225, 378, 3147, 3167, 3181, 442, 4122, 4148, 4156, 563, 564, 589, 5116, 669, 75, 930, 974, 1065, 11105, 1597, 1662, 16116, 1740, 1743, 17110, 185, 1979, 1989, 20104, 20109, 20114, 20130, 2118, 21110, 2362, 2451, 254, 2563, 334, 3370, 3676, 3817, 3884, 4133, 4721, 4811, 5018, 5039, 5045, 5625, 5626, 588, 6713, 6940, 6941, 6744, 724, 725, 7838, 8119.
Not a single one of these verses say actions are just as important as words. Doing a word search on qaul or word won't cut it, I'm afraid. There's no verse in al-quraan which states utterances are just as important as words. Sorry.
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If everything that you claim and request for from the Quran, was mentioned verbatim, explicit and well defined, then what the heck are you doing here trying to study, educate and make a sense of the verses. Besides, the Quran wouldn't be talking about intellect, reflect and reason, out of thin air, now would it? Twisting and turning to bring about a question that begs to explicitly call for "judgement on utterances" as verbatim mentioned in the Quran, shows how dense and ignorant you are.
No need for verbatim mentioning at all.
Then don't ask for it.
Sadly, your assertion is contrary to al-quraan's teachings. Big difference between 'not mentioned in verbatim' and 'contradicting'.
Sadly, you are misrepresenting my statement and projecting them to al-quran.
If it wasn't because of Muhammad's utterances (GOD's Words), you wouldn't be holding this discussion, not to mention the Quan itself, LOL!! Stop daydreaming and get real.
Indeed, but that's not the issue here, is it? The issue is as, you said
Indeed, that is the absolute issue. Muhammad's utterances (GOD's Words) are defined by HIS very words to be acted upon. Hence Words and Actions are of utmost and equally significant. If Muhammad tampered and mislead people by his utterances, then judgement is confirmed by GOD, as clearly stated in the Quran.
Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions.
According to al-quraan, this is false. It's amaal, not qaul which will be judged upon. I believe al-quraan is from Allah and thus its language is precise.
According to Quran, it is the absolute truth. Both, "words" AND "actions" are judged.
The importance and undersanding of utterances 2113, 2118, 2204, 2225, 378, 3147, 3167, 3181, 442, 4122, 4148, 4156, 563, 564, 589, 5116, 669, 75, 930, 974, 1065, 11105, 1597, 1662, 16116, 1740, 1743, 17110, 185, 1979, 1989, 20104, 20109, 20114, 20130, 2118, 21110, 2362, 2451, 254, 2563, 334, 3370, 3676, 3817, 3884, 4133, 4721, 4811, 5018, 5039, 5045, 5625, 5626, 588, 6713, 6940, 6941, 6744, 724, 725, 7838, 8119.
Not a single one of these verses say actions are just as important as words. Doing a word search on qaul or word won't cut it, I'm afraid. There's no verse in al-quraan which states utterances are just as important as words. Sorry.
Verses of the Quran are GOD's Words and NOT yours. Hence what YOU say, may not be found in the Quran in the exact manner by which you insist to be found. There are abundance of verses that collectively talk about WORDS and ACTIONS that are of equal importance. You cannot say that ACTIONS are the only ones that acknowledges judgement and not WORDS. That is plain stupid and childish. My statement was a general statement and once again you projected upon the Quran to be found or not, just like you did with the 'nature' issue. I am sorry to say, that by reading your several posts throughout this forum, it seems that you have a comprehension problem and discuss things aimlessly.
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Elena talking is an action too.
That depends on context. If your context includes the saying 'actions speak louder than words', then you can see that 'action' and 'words' are comparitive entities, not similar ones.
Our context in this discussion is al-quraan. In al-quraan's world view, qaul/words are being compared with amaal/actions in the same manner as i've pointed out.
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MQNo need for verbatim mentioning at all.
DanishThen don't ask for it.
I didn't. I asked for EVIDENCE. This means a Quranic verse which tells us that words are of equal weight to actions. Sadly, your statement contradicts al-quraan. You may not care about it but other people might want to see what al-quraan says. This is a place to study al-quraan , after all.
Sadly, you are misrepresenting my statement and projecting them to al-quran
Am I? My apologies if so. Here's your statement once again
Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions
How am I misrepresenting it and how should it be understood please?
Indeed, that is the absolute issue. Muhammad's utterances (GOD's Words) are defined by HIS very words to be acted upon. Hence Words and Actions are of utmost and equally significant. If Muhammad tampered and mislead people by his utterances, then judgement is confirmed by GOD, as clearly stated in the Quran.
Ah good. Would you mind returning to the issue please? The issue is (based on my statement to which you responded)
Indeed. We will be judged for our amaal, not our words
This is the issue at hand. You responded to the above statement by saying 'Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions
So I don't think you were talking about the descent of al-quraan here, old chap. You were, if you actually understood the thread, responding to the issue of judgement and in light of the issue, your statement was false.
According to Quran, it is the absolute truth. Both, "words" AND "actions" are judged.
Good. Show me evidence please. Do quote it if you can. I looked through all the verses you quoted and not one talked about 'equal weight in judgement'.
Verses of the Quran are GOD's Words and NOT yours. Hence what YOU say, may not be found in the Quran in the exact manner by which you insist to be found. There are abundance of verses that collectively talk about WORDS and ACTIONS that are of equal importance. You cannot say that ACTIONS are the only ones that acknowledges judgement and not WORDS. That is plain stupid and childish. My statement was a general statement and once again you projected upon the Quran to be found or not, just like you did with the 'nature' issue. I am sorry to say, that by reading your several posts throughout this forum, it seems that you have a comprehension problem and discuss things aimlessly
It's 'stupid and childish' to concord with al-quraan, in ideology if not verbatim? What is the point of al-quraan if we don't govern our lives with it?
General statement? What is a 'general statement' please?
A statement or posit may be either true or false. Our criteria here al-quraan. Does al-quraan confirm that on judgement day, our words will be judged as equally as our actions. My reading tell me , no it won't. I am most happy to be corrected and was very glad when you gave a load of numbers. Sadly, it was quite a let down because it appears you did a word search and threw out numbers, instead of actually touching the subject. If only you'd see that this isn't some contest (where you shout Slam Dunk) but a serious matter. To discover what the Book of Allah says and to judge our lives by it.
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Hi
Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions
2415 Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah.
5017 Behold, two (guardian angels) appointed to learn (his doings) learn (and noted them), one sitting on the right and one on the left.
5018 Not a word does he utter but there is a sentinel by him, ready (to note it).16116 But say not - for any false thing that your tongues may put forth,- "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so as to ascribe false things to Allah. For those who ascribe false things to Allah, will never prosper.
612 O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not?
613 Grievously odious is it in the sight of Allah that ye say that which ye do not.And a follower of Quran says words aren't important and our words wont be judged? o
Sura40
16. The Day when they will (all) come out, nothing of them will be hidden from All?h. Whose is the kingdom this Day? (All?h Himself will reply to His Question) It is All?h's the One, the Irresistible!-
This Day shall every person be recompensed for what he earned. No injustice (shall be done to anybody). Truly, All?h is Swift in reckoning. -
All?h knows the fraud of the eyes, and all that the breasts conceal. -
And All?h judges with truth, while those to whom they invoke besides Him, cannot judge anything. Certainly, All?h! He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.
What I understand from Quran, Allah would judge us, with truth , taking into account all the why's , the what's and every minutest detail.
for He knows - all thats in our hearts(thoughts); all that we do(words are a deed too and they have their own significance) and all.So, Yeah, we should practise righteousness in our thoughts, words and deeds, for all of it will be judged.
Peace!
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Hi Danish,
I am sorry to say, that by reading your several posts throughout this forum, it seems that you have a comprehension problem and discuss things aimlessly.
I agree. I have felt this to be the case in many discussions.
I am not sure if its miscomprehension or deliberate/non-deliberate manipulation of an other's words. But it definitely is a problem coz the discussion starts revolving pointlessly into a different subject altogether, on clarifications and corrections of what we actually said and how it got manipulated etc.Peace!
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And a follower of Quran says words aren't important and our words wont be judged?
It's funny how you say 'I am not sure if its miscomprehension or deliberate/non-deliberate manipulation of an other's words about me when it's ok for you to say that I said that 'words aren't important and our words wont be judged'
What I said was According to al-quraan, this is false. It's amaal, not qaul which will be judged upon. I believe al-quraan is from Allah and thus its language is precise.
Where did I say words aren't IMPORTANT? Kindly show me if you're truthful.
Amaal in Quranic terms is action. It may include qaul certainly but what Danish said was Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions.
This is what I'm contending. You have misunderstood the issue at hand. I even clarified further when I responded to ElenaOur context in this discussion is al-quraan. In al-quraan's world view, qaul/words are being compared with amaal/actions in the same manner as i've pointed out
Do you understand this? Amaal isn't a comparable concept to qaul for judgement.
I agree. I have felt this to be the case in many discussions
Oh. I see. Is it possible that your comprehension skills are less than perfect? Did you consider the possibility that you may have misunderstood my point or is that possibility totally precluded?
I am not sure if its miscomprehension or deliberate/non-deliberate manipulation of an other's words. But it definitely is a problem coz the discussion starts revolving pointlessly into a different subject altogether, on clarifications and corrections of what we actually said and how it got manipulated etc.
No, but in your later post you called it a manipulation. That's an accusation, btw. You charged me with calling people kaafir before and now you're accusing me of manipulation (an act of kufr, in quranic terms). Lets see if what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Here are some questions for you
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I'm certainly not above making mistakes. Would you please point out where I've misunderstood you and manipulated your words?
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Is your comprehension perfect? If not, is there a possibility that you may have misunderstood what I've said?
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Should everything we say about ad-deen be verifed by al-quraan or can we speak about ad-deen as we like?
Since no doubt you're a sincere person with a desire for truth, I've no doubt you will clarify your accusations against me.
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Hello all
not sure what is going on in the discussion between brothers danish and mquran?
i really could not understand what each argument is so I guessed it and I skimmed through the comments
it seems that someone is claiming that we will not be accountable for what we say?
and I have to say, this is not true, as clear as it can get from the verses posted by sister PM that we will be held accountable to what we say, EVERY SINGLE WORD
this means sayings is exactly like actions, in fact I believe I read some where in the Quran that the sayings is far more dangerous to mislead people than actions, I can't remember the verses but I will keep looking
peace
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Peace be upon you all,
Thougts are MORE IMPORTANT than actions because it is thoughts that CREATE the actions. This is why we are told that the God does not change the condition(outer expression) of a people until they change what is in this Spirit/Mind. It is in the realm of THOUGTS that the battle, the real jihad, is fought. The realm of beliefs (thought with energy/emotion behind it).
Thoughts are the SEEDS of the "magical garden of Eden". What we plant there is what we will reap. We reap because these seeds(thoughts) gather energy and grow into our actions/habits and that is how we are judged. So yes, we are judged by our actions, but our actions grow from our thoughts.
The weapons of mass media are destroying many today by the seeds being planted.
Guard your thoughts, and work to accept only the thoughts that submit to the God's Law.
(58 ... and if they came to you, they greeted you with what The God does not greet you with it, and they say in thier minds "If only The God tortures us because (of) what we say." Enough for them Hell they roast/suffer (from) it , so how bad (is) the end/destination?
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Hi Mquran,
It's funny how you say 'I am not sure if its miscomprehension or deliberate/non-deliberate manipulation of an other's words about me when it's ok for you to say that I said that 'words aren't important and our words wont be judged' What I said was According to al-quraan, this is false. It's amaal, not qaul which will be judged upon.
so, according to ur statement, I understand that u have said, '' its actions that will be judged and not the words.''.................right?
Well, in that case I mentioned some say ''words wont be judged''.........how different is it?Where did I say words aren't IMPORTANT? Kindly show me if you're truthful.
U can answer this better. Tell me, would words be judged? If they wont, they aren't important, r they?
Amaal in Quranic terms is action. It may include qaul certainly but what Danish said was Actually both. One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do. Words are just as important as actions
I dont see any thing false in his statement. Lets deconstruct it, shall we?
U said We will be judged for our amaal, not our words.
Danish said One must attain righteousness in what they say and what they do.
SO far, Danish's statement holds good, according to Quran.
Danish Words are just as important as actions
Every word we utter is being written down by angels so that they will be taken ino account on the day of judgement. So, that would mean words are important just like actions, wont they?
Do you understand this? Amaal isn't a comparable concept to qaul for judgement.
As I understand it, Deeds are accountable, every bit of it. And so are words, every single one. They are 2 entities.
For it not being comparable, I think its u who made the comparison in ur first statemnet when u said '' We will be judged for our amaal, not our words.''I agree. I have felt this to be the case in many discussions
Oh. I see. Is it possible that your comprehension skills are less than perfect? Did you consider the possibility that you may have misunderstood my point or is that possibility totally precluded?Quite possible, Mquran. I am a human after all. If I have, please show me where and how.
You charged me with calling people kaafir before and now you're accusing me of manipulation (an act of kufr, in quranic terms). Lets see if what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I am not charging u with any such label, Mquran. I dont label people. I dont see things as either black or white. And I respect God and all of His creations. Peace!
Here are some questions for you
- I'm certainly not above making mistakes. Would you please point out where I've misunderstood you and manipulated your words?
I can give u loads of examples, but do we really wanna go there? This is what I call going around in circles, pointlessly. And this is what I meant when I said.........''But it definitely is a problem coz the discussion starts revolving pointlessly into a different subject altogether, on clarifications and corrections of what we actually said and how it got manipulated etc.''
- Is your comprehension perfect? If not, is there a possibility that you may have misunderstood what I've said?
No one is perfect. All u have to do is show me where I have misunderstood and how. And if I have, I would apologise and correct my understanding. Peace!
- Should everything we say about ad-deen be verifed by al-quraan or can we speak about ad-deen as we like?
If one specificallly mentions this statement is from Quran, then yes, the verse might be enquired.
If one is stating a personal understanding/opinion, then it makes no sense to say, bring verse from Quran or where is that word mentioned in Quran. Like once when Mehdi had the sect query on, His question for discussion was ''r we forming some kind of a sect in this forum?' and u asked him to bring definition of sect from Quran and started calling him names. Where did he even mention Quran in his statement? It was just his personal, honest query.Since no doubt you're a sincere person with a desire for truth, I've no doubt you will clarify your accusations against me.
Accusations against u? That quite a strong word. Let me clarify, I have no accusations against u. But your manner of discussions has been a problem and has been felt by many.
A few samples of miscomprehension herehttp//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=62760#62760
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=69651#69651
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=65161#65161
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=65224#65224
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=68848#68848
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=69720#69720
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=62534#62534I appreciate ur earnestness to learn Quran. Thats all well. But in a discussion, some amount of respect, comprehension, constructiveness, straightforwardness should be maintained.
Otherwise, we clearly are wasting each other's time.
And thats why I said ''But it definitely is a problem coz the discussion starts revolving pointlessly into a different subject altogether, on clarifications and corrections of what we actually said and how it got manipulated etc.''.So, its good to stick to the discussion and not waste any more effort or time on pointless ranter. I cleary am not interested in it.
Peace!