the significance of the sacrifice?
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Peace,
I am of the opinoin that the dream was from God for two reasons
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God is the only entity that can operate outside the rules set for mankind (He is not to be questioned about what He does, while we are to be questioned). An example of this can be found in Chapter 2 where God tells the Children of Israel to 'kill themselves' for what they had transgressed...When they refuse, He kills them anyway and then resurects them to manifest His signs.
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Satan is forbidden by God's system from having any power or influence over the believers...Thus for Satan to be able to influence Abraham in a dream is not acheivable (unless Abraham had lost faith at that time, which I doubt from reading the Scripture).
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Thanks Layth, your input is appreciated.
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Salaams All,
There wasn't a sacrifice and Abraham refused to carry out the dream/tradition which (i assume) was satanic in nature.
please check out this and comment !!!
Here is the piece of info i saw
About one fifth of the way down of the following page
http//www.ai-deutschland.de/Main/PQ/ch9b-index.html#ch9b
look for the title
A DEFINITE CHANGE IN MEANINGThen
About a quarter of the way down the following page
http//www.ai-deutschland.de/Main/PQ/A4.htm#AppA4
look for
PAGE #652All this is i think from a very old quran which wasn't under the control of arabs it was outside their control hence they couldn't mutilate the message.
W e could all of us get together and donate something towards a trip by someone to check it out if you people dought its authenticity.
Gods Blessings on all of us.
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Hello
It is important to note that when we sleep our souls exit our bodies and return to Allah somewhere as per the Quran, hence I don't think Satan can do anthing to the sleepers during that time.
He wants to influence our souls while we are alive and making avctions to commit sins not while we are asleep peacfully and don't have our souls in our bodies
Peace
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Sacrificing children, people or yourself are all man made transgressions, which people often committed in the name God or to please their Gods.
So accepting the tradional view only serves to justify the above rituals.
If you read only what is the Quran then this is what you get.
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Abraham has a vision
(Neither God nor Satan is creditted with this!) -
Abrahim is not sure what it means and decides to carry out his vision literally.
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God saves his son, and tells him that he had already fulfilled the vision.
From this I understand that Abraham took his vision/dream literally, but really it was a metaphor for him and his son to submit.
peace.
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Salaams burhan ,
you said"and decides to carry out his vision literally."
but is this what the quran (the oldest -they say) in kazakhstan saying Br?
if not how do you explain,then?
Gods Blessings.
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- Abraham has a vision
(Neither God nor Satan is creditted with this!)
peace.
Peace
But it seems Allah has taken the credit for that dream as stated in the Quran
104- And We called out to him saying O Ibrahim!
105- You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good
106- Most surely this is a manifest trial.
(104)
(105)
(106)
so how come it can't be Allah's plan with Ibrahim and Allah is telling Him " ", "You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good"?
Peace
- Abraham has a vision
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Salam Layth and Ahmed Bahgat,
GOD says clearly in the Quran
They commit a gross VICE/CRIME/SIN, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and GOD has commanded us to do it." Say, "GOD never advocates a CRIME/VICE/SIN. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?"
Thus GOD never violates His above law. So here you two are saying about GOD what you do not know and reading GOD as the commander of the dream though this has never been stated. As to Ahmed quoting the verse containing "You thus fulfilled the true meaning of the vision" doesnt mean that it came from GOD. Rather that Abraham was thinking it to be from GOD and hence getting ready for the sacrifice and then GOD saved his son. But the initial command was not from GOD.
As far as the claim that dreams cannot be from satan because he cant influence them is balony. In dreams we sometimes commit violent acts like we kill somebody become druug dealers, involve in illict sexual activities, etc. Is this GOD's influence? Certainly not. Now the verse where GOD says that satan has no power over the believers we first have to understand that a person is not a believer at every point in his life, thus continuous repentance is necessary. Otherwise look around you? Dont we believers at times commit sins? Aint that a result of our listening to satan and thus his influencing us?
And bro Bahgat s.org has already answered someone who has made similar claims like you exactly to the point. Plz visit
http//www.submission.org/ismail-q.html
GOD Bless! -
Salam JK
There was never a killing to happen, IT WS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST TESTS A PROPHET CAN GO THROUH as the Quran told us
Allah infomed his prophet "You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good"
Hence He passed the test and another animal was sacrifed instead as per the verses that followed what i posted
now let's think about it logically and I will prove to you that there would have been never a possiblity that a killing will be committed
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Allah wanted to test Ibrahim and see if he can understand that Allah is communicating with him
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Ibrahim saw the dream in his sleep, that dream was planned by Allah
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Somehow Ibrahim knew that it must be Allah that is communicating to him
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Hence he followed his heart and went for it, but Allah interfered when Ibrahim passed the test then explained to Him what was going on and sacrified another animal instead
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assuming that Ibrahim failed the test, ie, he suggested to himslef that this dream must be from the devil and he can never hurt his son, ie. the killing was never to happen
see it was only a mere test between Allah and one of his mightest prophets, the father of all prophets, and in any direction Ibrahim would have gone there was never a killing to happen
peace
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Salam bro AB,
Brother listen. If you lets say taught your son the whole life to not steal anything from anyone would it be rational that in order to test his love for you, you one day order him to go rob a bank even if you go with the intention to stop him as soon as hes going to get invlolved in the event? Dont you see how stupid, dumb, foolish and unlogical this is? So how can we accuse GOD of something like that? It would be a clear contra towards 728 . Also did you read the article i posted? If not please do so. Someone named Tariq has made arguments as you have and theyve all been rebutted there. Hence all your other questions are answered there. GOD Bless! -
Ultimately the cause of everthing is God, so it's up to you how you reslove the free-will paradox.
God doesn't command anyone to do evil - test or no test. If you don't believe that than God help you.
Many cultures sacrificed human life for God, were their visions of God's test any lesser than Abraham.
Even today muslims carry out evil acts because they reckon God told them, and when things go wrong they say it is a test.
peace.
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Ultimately the cause of everthing is God, so it's up to you how you reslove the free-will paradox.
God doesn't command anyone to do evil - test or no test. If you don't believe that than God help you.
Many cultures sacrificed human life for God, were their visions of God's test any lesser than Abraham.
Even today muslims carry out evil acts because they reckon God told them, and when things go wrong they say it is a test.
peace.
Peace Brother burhan
Please don't accuse Muslims of non sense because WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO SAID, IT WAS A TEST FOR IBRAHIM, here is the verses again
104- And We called out to him saying O Ibrahim!
105- You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good
106- Most surely this is a manifest trial.
(104)
(105)
(106)
Can you see what is in 37106? "Most surely this is a manifest trial."
Hence, most surely it is not us who said it is a trial but Allah was the one Who did
Thanks
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- Satan is forbidden by God's system from having any power or influence over the believers...Thus for Satan to be able to influence Abraham in a dream is not acheivable (unless Abraham had lost faith at that time, which I doubt from reading the Scripture).
Peace Layth,
For example...
1773 They had almost led you away from what has been revealed to you, that you may invent things about Us besides those revealed, when they would have taken you as friend.
1774 If We had not kept you constant you had almost leaned towards them.Here we have a case of almost being led completely astray - and were it not for the mercy of the God he would have gone astray. The believers are not immune, and the 'soap' is under all our feet and we may slip at any time. It's important to remember that or else complacency and arrogance set in.
Here is another case of a devoted servant (Yusuf) being almost led astray...
1224 But the woman desired him, and he would have desired her but for the indication he received from his Lord. This was so that We may avert both evil and lechery from him, for he was one of Our chosen devotees.
So we are not immune, no matter how advanced we are in progress. The God may save his devoted servants from the influence of Satan, but it does not mean they are immune or not susceptible. This would be similar to the case for Abraham, while he may have been influenced and almost committed a wrong, he was similarly saved from wrongdoing. Can you see the parallel?
Regards.
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Peace be upon you,
Sacrifice is the "killing" of wrong ideas(offsrping) in place of correct ones. Ibrahim's son represents his tradition passed down from his father. The story also shows us once again not to take the stories literally, but metaphorically.
We also see the "kiling of a son" when Musa met the teacher and he killed a boy who had not killed another. The reason given was that the "sons" parents were believers/trusting people and they would be getting a better "son" in replacement.
Lastly, when we undwerstand the difference between your faculty of Knowledge and your faculty of intellect, the faculty of knowledge is always right, because it is based on LAW. Intellect however is hit or miss, sometimes right and sometimes wrong ideas. Therefore we have "adam" (human intellect), who had two "son's" , one good and one bad.
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Peace Idolfree
do you consider that what you said above using your intellect may have missed?
peace
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Peace be upon you,
If the intellect agrees with LAW, then it is knowledge. Lets hear how you understand the strories and compare them to see which version gives one guidance in life.
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Peace be upon you,
If the intellect agrees with LAW, then it is knowledge. Lets hear how you understand the strories and compare them to see which version gives one guidance in life.
peace
ok then prove to me please that the existance of mohammad as a prophet does not agree with the LAW
which Law first? the humans law? can you be specific
peace
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
ok then prove to me please that the existance of mohammad as a prophet does not agree with the LAW
which Law first? the humans law? can you be specific
Sure, first bring him here and then I will show you how he cant be verified. lol
Truthfully Ahmed, neither you nor I can prove nor disprove Muhammad Ibn Abdullah because we were not there. So it is foolish to follow a guess. Instead, follow good guidance when it comes to you.
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Salam "idolfree",
Truthfully Ahmed, neither you nor I can prove nor disprove Muhammad Ibn Abdullah because we were not there. So it is foolish to follow a guess. Instead, follow good guidance when it comes to you.
JK- There is archeological evidence that Muhammad existed just like there's evidence that dinos existed. Infact the evidence in the first case is stronger because that was only about 1400 years ago. GOD Bless!
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Peace be upon you,
JK- There is archeological evidence that Muhammad existed just like there's evidence that dinos existed. Infact the evidence in the first case is stronger because that was only about 1400 years ago. GOD Bless!
Could you point me in the right direction of this evidence? A website maybe? So I can see if it is credible. I hope its not just some bones that someone says is "muhammad ibn abdullah".
