Do You Realise We Would Be Killed?
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Well, if I turn into say.... a Catholic, then nothing would ever happen to me. But if I publicly renounce Sunnism, then I can expect a lot of trouble coming
Strange as it seems, that is the situation here
In Malaysia, if you became a Catholic, you will cause a national riot. This actually happened about 7 years ago when a 'muslim' girl became a catholic.
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Andya
Actually back in the 80s a Qur'an only group emerged in Jakarta, but it was quickly suppressed and labeled heretic by religious authorities. I don't think there was any violence involved though, that group just disappeared (or went underground). I read it on a book describing 'devious sects' in Indonesia, which includes the Ahmadiyah.Same thing happened in Malaysia in 1989.
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Salaam KGB,
I got the impression from Adley that he wants Ahmadiya movement to succeed in Indonesia. I make a mistake for not adressing directly to Adley.
Well, as you might have known, I disagree with Ahmadiya (or any sects for that matter). But I also disagree the harsh treatment they received from the surrounding neighbours on where they build their masjid. That is not tolerance.
I don't interfere in anybody's religious belief. All the humans have the right to follow what they believe is right. If you bring Ahmedis or Ismailis into discussion than I do have the right to critize them.
Agree.
BTW I love Indonesia, very nice place, friendly people, good sea food and everything very cheap.
Very cheap? lol lol lol lol
If you have dollars, absolutely. You can buy PS2 games for US$1 (or less even). But your pay check is in Rupiahs, then it's not cheap at all cryWasalaam,
=adley= -
Salaam Alleikum Adley
No misunderstanding at all now.
I said very cheap based on my observation like McDonalds always full, Pizza Hut full, Hard Rock full to its limits, Chilly's full and majority of the people there were always Indonesians which gives me impression that people can afford it because its so cheap.
Now you have explained it to me and sure you know your country better than a man who stayed in Jakarta for 9 days. -
Salaam KGB,
No misunderstanding at all now.
Alhamdulillah D
I said very cheap based on my observation like McDonalds always full, Pizza Hut full, Hard Rock full to its limits, Chilly's full and majority of the people there were always Indonesians which gives me impression that people can afford it because its so cheap.
Well, I have to admit that those restaurants are always full. The price here is definitely much lower than in US, Canada, or European countries for sure. On the other hand, there a lot of native people who can afford Pizza Hut, true. But there are a lot lot more who can't afford it. cry
Now you have explained it to me and sure you know your country better than a man who stayed in Jakarta for 9 days.
When was your last visit? And where to? Jakarta?
Wasalaam,
=adley= -
Salaam
Gosh, last time I was sitting in a cheap American fastfood restaurant in SouthEastAsia I felt so decadent and bad because in this airconditioned barn only about four other individuals were sitting and all of them were European (or American or Australian for that matter) ..... to be there seemed so extremely posh that I promised to me to never ever do so again.
That was in Bangkok, however. Neither in Indonesia nor Malaysia. Good to know that I would not need to feel too bad in Indonesia .... wink .I have a question on Indonesia and freedom of religion, guys
I read that years ago some javanese kebatinan groups declared themselves as separate from sunnism and were officially accepted as a separate agama under pancasila. However, all the members of these groups would before that act be just simply been classified as adherents of mystical sunni folk isl?m.
So, was this act not then a severe break with sunni policies and did it not provoke the sunni scholars?
I always also got the impression that Indonesia was quite liberal when it comes to religious freedom and when I read about this occasion it confirmed my belief. What do you say about it?
Thanks for any insights!bye,
Leyla
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Salaam Leyla, KGB, all,
Well, liberal in Jakarta or the big cities, perhaps. D
It is true that we've experience a period where religious movements were quite "free". At least until the MUI (Indonesian Assembly of Ulamas) made the 14 Fatwas last year.Indonesia may not that extreme as in other "total" Islamic countries, but if you punch the right buttons, there will be entertainment, D The problems would start if you start to doubt 3 things Arabic language as the language of Islam or God; the great scholars' Tafsirs; and the Hadiths they all love so much.
The kebatinan/mystic did not venture into, say, rejecting hadiths. So they're fine. Imam Ghazalli is quite popular in this country if I may add D even though in 16th century an Indonesian mystic named Syeikh Siti Jenar (a.k.a Sunan Lemahbang who gave birth to Kejawen Islam) was labeled a heretic/kafir/murtad for introducing the concept of "Man Unites with GOD." And there are still many others.
So Indonesia is a bit odd in terms of religious freedom. There was a guy back in 90s who met this problem because he said that to do the Hajj, one does not need to go to Mecca, a local masjid will do.
The most embarassing cases where the Ahmadiya and Roy who performed the traditional prayers in Bahasa Indonesia. So I guess there is a double standard here for what is accepted as "believe in what you want to believe" D
Wasalaam,
=adley= -
Peace,
The problems would start if you start to doubt 3 things Arabic language as the language of Islam or God; the great scholars' Tafsirs; and the Hadiths they all love so much.
I do not accept any of the above and so, perhaps I should never step in Indonesia, and for that matter any "Islamic" country. But surprisingly, I did spend a week in Bali in March 2003. But then, no body asked me about what I believed in.
Anwar Azim
PS My wife gave my daughter a nickname "Baliko" because she was conceived in Bali. BTW, "ko" is usually used to indicate a girl's name in Japanese. -
Salaam Anwar,
But surprisingly, I did spend a week in Bali in March 2003. But then, no body asked me about what I believed in.
Bali is, first and foremost, a Hindu island brother. D And a very very materialistic at that; because it is also a tourists' spot which involves night life (a.k.a. sex or prostitutions, drugs, alcohols, etc.)
So, I think anyone will be okay there. Most of the times at least, considering the stupid bombers in action.
Btw, I love your daughter's name. It's cute D
Wasalaam,
=adley=