the reading(quran) is not the title of any book

unknownuser

no it can't be similar, this means you are copycat lol nice try

you have to come with something about "let's say Allah" of your own and has the a stunning qualities of the Quran using a different "Bihar", and if you do it with me and I'm stunned I will concede

I will go and spend the today's holiday with the kids and family and I will keep checking this post, but I want it in arabic please and try to make it a huge font as my eye sight is a bit odd

I will check the grammar as well bro, I need a min of a line and half

thanks

Right, so a chapter "like" the Koran but not similar. Got it.
Then I assume I can write sbout the things that the Koran writes about.
You wil check the not Arabic but Quraishi Arabic grammar.

That's it? That's all I need to do?

well bro lol

not sure about the qurishi grammar, that sound like a bit if a stretch to me, lol as far as i know there is only one arabic grammar

now to write a sura like it, means like the miraculous style but you must bring your own "No copy cat" that will stun the majority of all arab speakers, and beacuse I'm one of them I will give you my honest opinion and a decleration signed by a justice of peace

yeh a message about God should be a nice start or possibly the Judgment Day,

your call

peace

el-Aziz

no it can't be similar, this means you are copycat lol nice try

you have to come with something about "let's say Allah" of your own and has the a stunning qualities of the Quran using a different "Bihar", and if you do it with me and I'm stunned I will concede

I will go and spend the today's holiday with the kids and family and I will keep checking this post, but I want it in arabic please and try to make it a huge font as my eye sight is a bit odd

I will check the grammar as well bro, I need a min of a line and half

thanks

Right, so a chapter "like" the Koran but not similar. Got it.
Then I assume I can write sbout the things that the Koran writes about.
You wil check the not Arabic but Quraishi Arabic grammar.

That's it? That's all I need to do?

well bro lol

not sure about the qurishi grammar, that sound like a bit if a stretch to me, lol as far as i know there is only one arabic grammar

now to write a sura like it, means like the miraculous style but you must bring your own "No copy cat" that will stun the majority of all arab speakers, and beacuse I'm one of them I will give you my honest opinion and a decleration signed by a justice of peace

yeh a message about God should be a nice start or possibly the Judgment Day,

your call

peace

Ok, the "miraculous style", what is significant to that? Just plain and simple so I will now what miracles to stick to...

Sorry, my bad about the grammar. Would you like me to write it in Quraishi Arabic or modern standard arabic?

unknownuser

no it can't be similar, this means you are copycat lol nice try

you have to come with something about "let's say Allah" of your own and has the a stunning qualities of the Quran using a different "Bihar", and if you do it with me and I'm stunned I will concede

I will go and spend the today's holiday with the kids and family and I will keep checking this post, but I want it in arabic please and try to make it a huge font as my eye sight is a bit odd

I will check the grammar as well bro, I need a min of a line and half

thanks

Right, so a chapter "like" the Koran but not similar. Got it.
Then I assume I can write sbout the things that the Koran writes about.
You wil check the not Arabic but Quraishi Arabic grammar.

That's it? That's all I need to do?

well bro lol

not sure about the qurishi grammar, that sound like a bit if a stretch to me, lol as far as i know there is only one arabic grammar

now to write a sura like it, means like the miraculous style but you must bring your own "No copy cat" that will stun the majority of all arab speakers, and beacuse I'm one of them I will give you my honest opinion and a decleration signed by a justice of peace

yeh a message about God should be a nice start or possibly the Judgment Day,

your call

peace

Ok, the "miraculous style", what is significant to that? Just plain and simple so I will now what miracles to stick to...

the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block

Sorry, my bad about the grammar. Would you like me to write it in Quraishi Arabic or modern standard arabic?

well I don't know what that Qurishi arabic you are talking about, but if it makes you feel good to write in it, please do

peace

zsrin

First of all, what I was trying to say by Koran is "the book", and the "Quran"(reading) that is in the Koran never refer to the book that most of the people understand...please look at the topic of the discussion...I used the wod "Koran" to differentiate it with "Quran"(reading...) that I understand..

IF that is too hard for you to understand..I won't call it Koran anymore..instead I'll call it just as a "book"...

zsrin

Peace PeacefulMuslim,

Hi zsrin and Ahmed Bahgat,

Hi zsrin,

see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong

.
being a person with ego never mean arrogant.... one is an arrogant person when he/she let his/her ego control himself/herself...
in the dictionary
ego means self-pride / self-importance / self-esteem/

Ego means ''An exaggerated sense of self-importance''. similiary exaggerated self-esteem or self pride. it has a negative connotation to it.

its not neccessarily "exaggerated"...It can also be just
Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.
http//www.answers.com/topic/ego
As I said, it depends on how far u understand the word...

I agree. ' Ego' can also mean ''appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem''.
Its more often used as ''exagerated''

But literally, yes, ur meanings are right as well.

Ego
? noun (pl. egos) 1 a person?s sense of self-esteem or self-importance.
http//www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/ego?view=uk

Definition
ego
noun plural egos
1 MAINLY DISAPPROVING your idea or opinion of yourself, or a great feeling of your own importance and ability
That man has such an enormous ego - I've never known anyone so full of themselves!
I'm glad she got the job - she needed something to boost/bolster her ego (= give her confidence).
See also alter ego; superego.

2 SPECIALIZED in psychoanalysis, the part of a person's mind which tries to match the hidden desires of the id (= part of unconscious mind) with the demands of reality

egocentric
adjective MAINLY DISAPPROVING
describes someone who is selfish, thinking only of themselves
Babies are entirely egocentric, concerned only with when they will next be fed.

egocentrically
adverb MAINLY DISAPPROVING

egocentricity
noun MAINLY DISAPPROVING

egomania
noun DISAPPROVING
when a person considers themselves to be very important and able to do anything that they want to do

egomaniac
noun DISAPPROVING
a person who considers themselves to be extremely important and able to do anything that they want to do

egotism
noun (ALSO egoism) DISAPPROVING
the tendency to think only about yourself and consider yourself better and more important than other people
Finding herself world-famous by the time she was eighteen only encouraged the actress's egotism.

egotist
noun (ALSO egoist) DISAPPROVING
a person who considers themselves to be better or more important than other people
Politicians are notorious egotists.

egotistic, egotistical
adjective
http//dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=24931

Bu in my opinion,

"Vain Desire" and Ego, whats the different??

Vain desire and ego are not equivalent words.

Peace!

Good...not let us try to understand the words "vain desire" and ego...

vain (vn) pronunciation
adj., vain?er, vain?est.

Not yielding the desired outcome; fruitless a vain attempt.
Lacking substance or worth vain talk.
Excessively proud of one's appearance or accomplishments; conceited.
Archaic. Foolish.

idiom

in vain

To no avail; without success Our labor was in vain.
In an irreverent or disrespectful manner took the Lord's name in vain.

vain'ly adv.
vain'ness n.

vain
adj

Definition egotistical
Antonyms modest, shy

adj

Definition futile, useless
Antonyms possible

vain

adjective

Having no useful result barren, bootless, fruitless, futile, unavailing, unprofitable, unsuccessful, useless. Idioms in vain. See thrive/fail/exist, used/unused.
Lacking value, use, or substance empty, hollow, idle, otiose, vacant. See full/empty/capacity.
Unduly preoccupied with one's own appearance conceited, narcissistic. See self-love/modesty.
Thinking too highly of oneself conceited, egoistic, egoistical, egotistic, egotistical, narcissistic, vainglorious. Informal bigheaded, stuck-up, swellheaded. See self-love/modesty.

http//www.answers.com/topic/vain

Got the answer?

Anyway, you need to understand that "ego" represent a state of mind, a "consciousness", if you look at Oxford dictionary, the meaning of "ego" is "a person self", so anything related to "self" or "consciousness" is "ego"..."human WILL" is also an ego..."love" is also an ego...the word hatred,desire,care and everything dealt with our "consciousness" is an "ego"....if you're studying 'psychology"..it won't be hard for you to understand...

All the above quotes from the dictionary is just something for me to let you understand in a language context...To really understand it..you need to understand the law of the universe...

I hope that will help...Its the same thing when you try to understand the word "Quran" (reading)...it can't be a book, because the Quran is for everyone living in this world...so it can't be a book...because if it is a book..how do you think a "blind man" can read the book??

Understand now??

I'm open for a challenge for those people who can "think"!

unknownuser

Hi zsrin,

Good...not let us try to understand the words "vain desire" and ego...
vain (vn) pronunciation
adj., vain?er, vain?est.

Not yielding the desired outcome; fruitless a vain attempt.
Lacking substance or worth vain talk.
Excessively proud of one's appearance or accomplishments; conceited.
Archaic. Foolish.

idiom

in vain

To no avail; without success Our labor was in vain.
In an irreverent or disrespectful manner took the Lord's name in vain.

vain'ly adv.
vain'ness n.

vain
adj

Definition egotistical
Antonyms modest, shy

adj

Definition futile, useless
Antonyms possible

vain

adjective

Having no useful result barren, bootless, fruitless, futile, unavailing, unprofitable, unsuccessful, useless. Idioms in vain. See thrive/fail/exist, used/unused.
Lacking value, use, or substance empty, hollow, idle, otiose, vacant. See full/empty/capacity.
Unduly preoccupied with one's own appearance conceited, narcissistic. See self-love/modesty.
Thinking too highly of oneself conceited, egoistic, egoistical, egotistic, egotistical, narcissistic, vainglorious. Informal bigheaded, stuck-up, swellheaded. See self-love/modesty.

http//www.answers.com/topic/vain

The word ''vain'' can mean useless/unsuccessful or selfish depending on the usage.

vain (UNSUCCESSFUL) Show phonetics
adjective
unsuccessful or useless; of no value
The doctors gave him more powerful drugs in the vain hope that he might recover.
FORMAL It was vain to pretend to himself that he was not disappointed.

vainly Show phonetics
adverb
unsuccessfully
He tried vainly to make them listen.

And when its implied on a person's behaviour, it takes the meaning ''selfish''

vain (SELFISH) Show phonetics
adjective
too interested in your own appearance or achievements
He was very vain about his hair and his clothes.

vanity Show phonetics
noun
1 DISAPPROVING when you are too interested in your appearance or achievements
He wants the job purely for reasons of vanity and ambition.http//dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=87651&dict=CALD

Hope the examples helped in understanding the difference in the usage.
We cant misapply meanings, to suit our purpose.

Got the answer?

Anyway, you need to understand that "ego" represent a state of mind, a "consciousness", if you look at Oxford dictionary, the meaning of "ego" is "a person self", so anything related to "self" or "consciousness" is "ego"..."human WILL" is also an ego..."love" is also an ego...the word hatred,desire,care and everything dealt with our "consciousness" is an "ego"....if you're studying 'psychology"..it won't be hard for you to understand...

u got it wrong. ego means feelings pertaining to self. such as self-esteem, self-pride. it does not constitute all the feelings one feels but those feelings he feels for himself.
Here's what the oxford says

ego

/eego, ego/

? noun (pl. egos) 1 a person?s sense of self-esteem or self-importance. 2 Psychoanalysis the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for the interpretation of reality and the development of a sense of self.

So, human will is not ego, love, hatred etc are not ego. U got it wrong. it has to be self-love, self-hatred etc..

I hope that will help...Its the same thing when you try to understand the word "Quran" (reading)...it can't be a book, because the Quran is for everyone living in this world...so it can't be a book...because if it is a book..how do you think a "blind man" can read the book??
Understand now??
I'm open for a challenge for those people who can "think"!

There are more blind people(as in blind from their lack of usage of brains) than those without eyesight.

And if Quran is for everyone, in the world, why cant it be a book?
God says in Quran, that Quran is for those who can read and understand. So, in that sense, people with no brains or those who blind fold themselves wont be able to understand Quran.

And for people without eyesight who wish to know the contents of the Quran, it can be read out to them, or they can be given a book in their coded language for them to read.

And man can count always on his own conscience, which contains God's spirit, to guide us, anyways.

Peace!

zsrin

And when its implied on a person's behaviour, it takes the meaning ''selfish''

isn't that same as ego? ego = self-pride/self-importance/selfish ?

So, whats the point there? isn't all of them bring to the same conclusion that is "self"...

Science
ego (ee-goh)

The ?I? or self of any person (ego is Latin for ?I?). In psychological terms, the ego is the part of the psyche that experiences the outside world and reacts to it, coming between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social environment, represented by the superego.

The term ego is often used to mean personal pride and self-absorption ?Losing at chess doesn't do much for my ego.?

Medical
e?go ('g, g'&#333
n.

In psychoanalytic theory, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and mediates between the person and external reality.

WordNet
Note click on a word meaning below to see its connections and related words.

The noun ego has 3 meanings

Meaning #1 an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others
Synonyms egotism, self-importance

Meaning #2 your consciousness of your own identity
Synonym self

Meaning #3 (psychoanalysis) the conscious mind

you see, you can't just take ego as a self-pride...u need to look at it in more detailed...self-pride etc is just the sub-set of our state of mind...

In order to understand more..I suggest you get about related to psychology or anything in that topic..

So, human will is not ego, love, hatred etc are not ego. U got it wrong. it has to be self-love, self-hatred etc..

See, you gave the answer yourself...

Ask yourself...Why do you love your mom?
Because she is your mom..
She cares about you..

see, everything is "related" to you...yourself"...

And hatred..why do you hate someone??? is because they do something bad to YOU.. or did something that made YOU unhappy!

Would you "hate" someone that never do anything to you?Or do anything that made you unhappy?
NO.

You understand now? everything is related to "self"?

you won't be able to "love" or "hate" anyone that has nothing to do with yourself

So, tell me, which of my explaination is wrong?

There are more blind people(as in blind from their lack of usage of brains) than those without eyesight.

And if Quran is for everyone, in the world, why cant it be a book?
God says in Quran, that Quran is for those who can read and understand. So, in that sense, people with no brains or those who blind fold themselves wont be able to understand Quran.

blind folded and physically blind is two different things and what is "read"?

And for people without eyesight who wish to know the contents of the Quran, it can be read out to them, or they can be given a book in their coded language for them to read.

if its is a book...

So, how if nobody is going to explain to them? How are they going to know that the one reading to them is not cheating them? Even if you can "read" to them, and let say you read to them the verse below

"He is the One who made the sun to emit light, and the moon to reflect it, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except for truth. He details the revelations for a people who know." - 106

How are they suppose to verify the verse above? How is "the book" suppose to explain anything to them????

Do you think god forgot that "blind" people won't be able to see the sun and the moon to understand the "verse" above??

And man can count always on his own conscience, which contains God's spirit, to guide us, anyways.

Peace!

So, who needs "the book" then???

zsrin

Oh yeah, I found a link that will let u understand more about "ego"

http//www.livereal.com/psychology_arena/what_is_ego.htm
http//www.meaningoflife.i12.com/ego.htm

"ego" is a subject that will take time to understand...so, don't rush...

unknownuser

Hello zsrin

I believe you suffer from high level of ego according to the definitions you keep bringing in

chill out man and drop your ego wink

zsrin

peace,

Perhaps, because "I want" people to "open their mind"...I "want" people to gain more knowledge...cause I "want" a peaceful world with no "discrimination"....you see, I myself have an ego..because "I want"...but to say that as a "high level ego".. I don't think so...because if I am having a "high level ego" I won't bother to share my knowledge..in other words..I would be a selfish guy... wink

unknownuser

peace,

Perhaps, because "I want" people to "open their mind"...I "want" people to gain more knowledge...cause I "want" a peaceful world with no "discrimination"....you see, I myself have an ego..because "I want"...but to say that as a "high level ego".. I don't think so...because if I am having a "high level ego" I won't bother to share my knowledge..in other words..I would be a selfish guy... wink

sounds like a good mission to me, good luck with it

peace

el-Aziz

the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block

So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?
Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?

well I don't know what that Qurishi arabic you are talking about, but if it makes you feel good to write in it, please do

Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?
The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.

unknownuser

the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block

So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?

your work will be the judge

Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?

forget the miracle word then, I want something stunnig

well I don't know what that Qurishi arabic you are talking about, but if it makes you feel good to write in it, please do

Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?

No I didn't, but I think the Qurishi Arabic (accent) is very advanced from what I know

The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.

where is the verses that suggest that?

el-Aziz

the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block

So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?

your work will be the judge

So my work gets to authorize itself? Sounds a bit vague, doesn?t it?

Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?

forget the miracle word then, I want something stunnig

Well that?s because you see the Koran as stunning. Another may consider it ?interesting? or a third thinks of it as ?fairly well written?. So as the challenge asks for a ?chapter like it?, are you the one to distinguish that ?stunning? is the term that it has to be referred to as?

Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?

No I didn't, but I think the Qurishi Arabic (accent) is very advanced from what I know

Judge for yourself, it?s in the Koran. For myself I think it?s sufficient and that?s about it.

The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.

where is the verses that suggest that?

Well, the Arabic of that time and place is not consistent with the one that is known as ?Arabic? today so it makes sense that modern linguists has come with a term to separate them. And this is the reason why it is not given the name ?Quraishi Arabic?. That would be as stretched as we refer to the language of our conversation to be ?Old 21st century English?, knowing that it will evolve in the future.

unknownuser

the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block

So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?

your work will be the judge

So my work gets to authorize itself? Sounds a bit vague, doesn?t it?

i might have said it wrong, excuse my ignorance in english,

what I mean that your work will be the thing that you will be judged on regarding a the stunning sura you are planning to create

Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?

forget the miracle word then, I want something stunnig

Well that?s because you see the Koran as stunning. Another may consider it ?interesting? or a third thinks of it as ?fairly well written?. So as the challenge asks for a ?chapter like it?, are you the one to distinguish that ?stunning? is the term that it has to be referred to as?

Yeh becaise I know the language fluently and it is my native tongue I can see how stunning it is, but I don't expect new learners in the language or the non arabic speaker will even sense 1% of it

Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?

No I didn't, but I think the Qurishi Arabic (accent) is very advanced from what I know

Judge for yourself, it?s in the Koran. For myself I think it?s sufficient and that?s about it.

excuse me, qurish was not the author of the Quran, so I wonder why you say the arabic quran is a qurishi arabic, can you provide any evidence from the Quran?

The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.

where is the verses that suggest that?

Well, the Arabic of that time and place is not consistent with the one that is known as ?Arabic? today so it makes sense that modern linguists has come with a term to separate them. And this is the reason why it is not given the name ?Quraishi Arabic?. That would be as stretched as we refer to the language of our conversation to be ?Old 21st century English?, knowing that it will evolve in the future.

not sure about what you say, as far as native aravbic speaker can see, the Arabic quran is one piece of excpetional and stunning arabic and sure can't be matched unless you will succeed in your mission of creating a stunning sura like the Quran

el-Aziz

Once again you have failed to declare the nature of this supposed challenge?

I have not claimed no authorship to no ?qurishi? by saying that the Koran is written in the dialect that modern linguists refer to as Quraishi Arabic. The reason they say that and not ?Arabic? is that they are not consistent. The texts that were written by Swedish King Gustav Vasa in the 16th century were written in Swedish indeed, but NOT the one that modern people refer to as ?Svenska? even though grammar and many words are the same. So they are separated by a new name to the elder dialect. The mere fact about modern Arabic and Koranic Arabic not being the same remains, regardless what we call the latter. Period.

About this thing that the work presented has to come fro a knowledgeable person, you haven?t clarified what it means.

I?m not very amazed that a native arab speaker refers to the Koran (being one of the greatest among legacies of culture and literature in the Arab world) as ?stunning?. However, you have not been able to prove that ?a chapter like it? refers to ?a chapter as stunning as one of the Koran?. And ?stunning?, in case you haven?t noticed, is a very subjective word. And I haven?t either figured out what?s so stunning about it. Personally, I think of the language structure of the Koran is quite poor compared to other Semitic texts. But once again, that is a very subjective thing, don?t you agree?

jonny_k

Salam "el-Aziz",

They are false, yes indeed. Inaccurate and stupid.
However, I would be delighted to discuss this matter but I'm afraid it doesn't seem to fit this section of this forum, does it?

Anyway, let me know when you've used the calculator...

Peace!

JK- Ok then please tell me which points i mentioned are stupid, why and how? GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Salam "el-aziz",

Now you tell me about what a man cannot produce that the Koran has...

JK- A superhuman mathematical structure. Bro Bahman was an atheist. Math structure of Quran turned him into a believer. Hes ready to give up Quran if anyone can challenge this http//www.submission.org/challenge.html . Until now no one has done so including great mathematicians. Bro Bahman has shown other interesting interlocks of the Quran to mathematicians on which they were amazed. his personal site is www.y19.net GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Once again you have failed to declare the nature of this supposed challenge?

it seems that you are the one who failed to understand it

i suggest you forget it then, or possibly find someone else to explain it to you better than me

I have not claimed no authorship to no ?qurishi? by saying that the Koran is written in the dialect that modern linguists refer to as Quraishi Arabic. The reason they say that and not ?Arabic? is that they are not consistent.

ok who is not consistant?, Qurishsi Arabic?, and where did you manage to find some writings written in their accent? i never seen any myself

The texts that were written by Swedish King Gustav Vasa in the 16th century were written in Swedish indeed, but NOT the one that modern people refer to as ?Svenska? even though grammar and many words are the same. So they are separated by a new name to the elder dialect. The mere fact about modern Arabic and Koranic Arabic not being the same remains, regardless what we call the latter. Period.

ok, but the Quran Arabic is superior to the modern Arabic. Period.

About this thing that the work presented has to come fro a knowledgeable person, you haven?t clarified what it means.

not to worry bro, just forget it or find another person to talk you through it again

I?m not very amazed that a native arab speaker refers to the Koran (being one of the greatest among legacies of culture and literature in the Arab world) as ?stunning?.

yeh you are right, I'm very biased to my native language wink

no wonder many non arabic speaking muslims told me they feel jealous of native arabic speaking muslims lol

However, you have not been able to prove that ?a chapter like it? refers to ?a chapter as stunning as one of the Koran?.

well do i have to prove anything to anyone but me?

And ?stunning?, in case you haven?t noticed, is a very subjective word.

you mean relative word?

And I haven?t either figured out what?s so stunning about it.

that is normal as a non arabic speaker lol

Personally, I think of the language structure of the Koran is quite poor compared to other Semitic texts. But once again, that is a very subjective thing, don?t you agree?

agree on it as being subjective? no I don't I agree on it being but I will agree that it is relative based on the differences between humans like a solid arabic speaker, a novice arabic speaker and a non arabic speaker

The Quran is the perfect and direct words of our God and by you saying it is poor, it seems you are taking Iblis and his progny as protectors, good luck to you

for me the direct words of our God must be perfect and unmatchable regardless of any langugae used

peace

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Zsrin,

Idolfree you know what.. I really need some meditation...Its hard to make people to think "outside the box"....

D We all need meditation. My advice to you is to rememebr that PEACE is our natural state of being. Dont waste your time tryin to convince anyone who does not want to look at something different. It will cause you to get emotional , which is "succumbing to the snake in the garden" to use an old metaphor.

Take a step back and read the several pages that have gone by so far, then you will realize that its probably time to say "Peace", and move on to another thread for a while.

And that said easier said than done , trust me, I know D