Complaint about your Quran translation
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Just becuase there are people who participate on this forum, it doesn't mean that they approve of the Quran translation that the FM.org has endorsed... I for one, don't agree with alot of their translations.
You should try contacting the person who runs the site. Mayeb there is some contact info somewhere on the main site?
salaam
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Peace Hamid,
Also, based on the oldest manuscripts that we inherent (one in Tashkent and the other one in Istanbul), there is no Basmallah at the beginning of Surra 9.
By admitting that Basmallahs are the part of revelation to our prophet (pbuh), you basically add a verse to Quran. This action from the people whose beliefs are based on a protected and fully preserved Quran is not admissible. If that is true, why not assuming that other verses have been missed during copying the scripture? (Nauzubellah)
Please remove that extra verse from the beginning of Surra 9.Please read the full explanation of why the 'Basmalla' was added to this translation
One of the strangest aspects of the printed Scripture is the lack of a 'Basmallah' at the beginning of chapter 9. Information written regarding this subject indicates that there is confusion as to whether the Scripture is comprised of 114 chapters, or whether it is comprised of 113 chapters (some scholars have argued that a merger of chapters 8 & 9 is possible due to the lack of the 'Basmallah').
In reviewing the older written texts, it was found that the ability to realize the separation between chapters 8 & 9, without a 'Basmallah', was nearly impossible without referring to the man-made injection of the chapter name to highlight the beginning of a new chapter.
The overall review of the Scripture and its design do seem to support the existence of 114 chapters rather than 113 (the occurrence of certain words outside the 'Basmallahs' show a frequency of 114 such as the name of God 'Al-Raheem', or the sum of the two initials 'Q' that are mathematically recorded in chapters 50 & 42 being 114).
Based on such analysis, and knowing full well that human errors have found their way into the printed Scripture, it is found that not only does the Scripture comprise of 114 chapters, but that the 'Basmallah' for chapter 9 appears to have been inadvertently dropped at some unknown stage in the copying and distribution of the Scripture. It has therefore been re-inserted into this translation with the full belief that it is indeed 'part of the original' revelation unless proven otherwise.
If you will not have the Basmalla for Sura 9, then you have no choice but to add Sura 8 & 9 together (thus making 113 Suras in total, not 114).
That is the question being posed here (113 or 114).
As for the oldest surviving Mushafs, they are at the end of the day all 'copies' (the earliest surviving I believe is dated 60-100 years after the prophet's death). We do not know what became of the original Mushaf written by the prophet, thus we cannot claim that refering to a 'copy' will solve the question.
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If you will not have the Basmalla for Sura 9, then you have no choice but to add Sura 8 & 9 together (thus making 113 Suras in total, not 114).
I tend to believe that this is the case
peace
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Salam Layth and Ahmed Bahgat,
If you will not have the Basmalla for Sura 9, then you have no choice but to add Sura 8 & 9 together (thus making 113 Suras in total, not 114).
I tend to believe that this is the case
peace
JK- This is nonsense. It has been like that from the beginning. No one until now except layth and some other Quran "Aloners" have come up with such a claim. The claim that every sura needs to be preceded by a Bismillah is equally absurd and is not supported by the Quran. The mathematical pattern based on no. 19 clearly indicates that sura 9 does not ahve a Bismillah for a good reason. And bro "Ahmed bahgat" i dont know why you cant see the miracle. I advise you to CAREFULLY GO THROUGH BRO EDIP YUKSEL'S ARTICLE "INTELLIGENT PEOPLE'S GUIDE TO CODE-19" at http//19.org/?books . GOD Bless!
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Salam Layth and Ahmed Bahgat,
If you will not have the Basmalla for Sura 9, then you have no choice but to add Sura 8 & 9 together (thus making 113 Suras in total, not 114).
I tend to believe that this is the case
peace
JK- This is nonsense. It has been like that from the beginning. No one until now except layth and some other Quran "Aloners" have come up with such a claim. The claim that every sura needs to be preceded by a Bismillah is equally absurd and is not supported by the Quran. The mathematical pattern based on no. 19 clearly indicates that sura 9 does not ahve a Bismillah for a good reason. And bro "Ahmed bahgat" i dont know why you cant see the miracle. I advise you to CAREFULLY GO THROUGH BRO EDIP YUKSEL'S ARTICLE "INTELLIGENT PEOPLE'S GUIDE TO CODE-19" at http//19.org/?books . GOD Bless!
Peace bro
I stated I tend to believe that itn is the case, not really a full belief as i'm not sure, however the reason I tend to believe that is simply this reason does not incline that the Quran is corrupted
for the 19 miracle, mate I spent months and months reading RK work, please bear in mind that I'm a math expert therefore what he presented mever impressed me, it was like a try and error procedure for RK and when he gets an error he ignorts it and when he gets a match he considers it an evidence
the verse about the miracle itself "I think it is 7431" is actually describing Rashad Khalifa more that describing the ones who ignored this so called miracle
if it is a real miracle bro i will be the first to believe in it but after months of study, it can't be, in fact the Author of the Quran will look very silly if it was intended to be a miracle
peace man
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Salam AB,
for the 19 miracle, mate I spent months and months reading RK work, please bear in mind that I'm a math expert therefore what he presented mever impressed me, it was like a try and error procedure for RK and when he gets an error he ignorts it and when he gets a match he considers it an evidence
JK- Please also bear in mind that RK was also an expert in maths and so is Abu Jameel(aka Richard Voss) who also performed a stats test to the code-19 of the Quran. Please go through http//19.org/index.php?id=26,57,0,0,1,0
Also i advise you to read Edip's "intelligent guide..." because it mentions one very astonishing aspect of code-19. Just go through it. I myself am good at maths and have analysed for years the mathematical structure of the Quran and found it to be absolutely astonishing, amazing and impossible to imitate. The great mathematicians remained silent when bro Edip presented this mathematical in Turkey some years ago. Since you dont know all this i once agaion advise you to go through Edip's abover mentioned article.the verse about the miracle itself "I think it is 7431" is actually describing Rashad Khalifa more that describing the ones who ignored this so called miracle
JK- Oh really? Then why was my faith strengthened by code-19? Why did a hard liner atheists named Bahman Goharzad from Persia turn to Quran Alone after witnessing this miracle(www.y19.net)? Why did ex-hardliner hadithist Edip Yuksel risk his position and even possible death threats to accept Quran Alone due to code-19? Why did I Jonny K, risk my life and position as a fanatic and comfortable hadithist and came to Quran Alone? Ill tell you why "CODE-19 CONVINCED ME"!
if it is a real miracle bro i will be the first to believe in it but after months of study, it can't be, in fact the Author of the Quran will look very silly if it was intended to be a miracle
peace man
JK- These are all excuses. I also urge you to read Edip's articles "Running like Zebras" and "Another running liker Zebras" at http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/zebras.htm and http//19.org/index.php?id=14,186,0,0,1,0
GOD Bless! -
I will try one more time bro
while I liked Edip at the start, I w2as not happy by him slandering other muslims like Harun Yahya
see I don't agree with many of H Y concpets for me he is a clear cut secterian muslim, however I respect the man and appreciate his work for Islam not to slander him and talk ill about him, this alone is against Islam, therefore it will be very hard to me to accept what Edip says as truely coming from a guided muslim
but I will have another go at it, my problem is I discovered many flaws in it and those flaws are irrefutable
Peace man
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Salam bro AB,
I will try one more time bro
JK- Very good.
while I liked Edip at the start, I was not happy by him slandering other muslims like Harun Yahya
JK- Adnan Oktar aka Harun Yahya is a hypocrite according to Edip. I believe Edip alone can tell him about his encounter with HY. He has written an account at http//19.org/index.php?id=14,335,0,0,1,0 . If you have any further questions you can also call him under 1-520-4811919
see I don't agree with many of H Y concpets for me he is a clear cut secterian muslim, however I respect the man and appreciate his work for Islam not to slander him and talk ill about him, this alone is against Islam, therefore it will be very hard for me to me to accept what Edip says as truely coming from a guided muslim
JK- I also appreciate much of HIS WORK but i cant say anything of him as a man. Edip has had a personal encounter with HY and therefore pehaps knows more regarding the truth of this man.
but I will have another go at it, my problem is I discovered many flaws in it and those flaws are irrefutable
Peace man
JK- Please go through all of Edip's articles/debates in the links i mentioned above. It contains most of the common as well as specific rebuttals regarding criticisms of code-19. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
Layth wrote
If you will not have the Basmalla for Sura 9, then you have no choice but to add Sura 8 & 9 together (thus making 113 Suras in total, not 114).Jonny wrote
JK- This is nonsense. It has been like that from the beginning. No one until now except layth and some other Quran "Aloners" have come up with such a claim. The claim that every sura needs to be preceded by a Bismillah is equally absurd and is not supported by the Quran. The mathematical pattern based on no. 19 clearly indicates that sura 9 does not ahve a Bismillah for a good reason. And bro "Ahmed bahgat" i dont know why you cant see the miracle. I advise you to CAREFULLY GO THROUGH BRO EDIP YUKSEL'S ARTICLE "INTELLIGENT PEOPLE'S GUIDE TO CODE-19" at http//19.org/?books . GOD Bless!Please do not refer to me as a 'Quran Aloner'. That is a name of a man-made sect, while we are commanded to call ourselves 'Muslims'.
On the issue of 'it has been like that since the beginning', that really has zero weight when we are discussing facts...If all the people since the 'beginning' worship Jesus as God, does that make him God?
On the issue of the 'Basmalla' proceeding each sura...If you think that is not the case, then you have not been able to notice the obvious fact that 113 of the suras have a 'Basmalla' at their head.
Use your own judgement and do not let the 'mathematical pattern' become an obsession and get in the way of objectivity. Remove the man-made chapter names and show me how you determine the start of a Sura if not for the 'Basmallah'
Finally, on the mathematical pattern that you speak of...I agree there is a 'mathematical pattern', but not the results of which you are pushing through or promoting...
For God's sake, the people who accept the RK results of code 19 are blind to the most simple mistake such as the total verse numbers (even after the deletion of 128 & 129) not being a 19 divisible number.
That little overlooked fact in itself (pluse the other ignored fact of there being 113 Basmallas - not a 19 divisible number) places the entire research/data in question...But do we ever see it being discussed and rectified by the RK data supporters? No, they simply continue to repeat the same wrong data day aftyer day year after year.
Why is that? Is tradition (RK tradition) more valuable that truth?
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Salam "layth",
Please do not refer to me as a 'Quran Aloner'. That is a name of a man-made sect, while we are commanded to call ourselves 'Muslims'.
JK- I just gave further reference regarding the general belief. Anyways i cant consider you to be believeing in Quran Alone , lets put it that was. This is because you believe in 9128&129 as well.
On the issue of 'it has been like that since the beginning', that really has zero weight when we are discussing facts...If all the people since the 'beginning' worship Jesus as God, does that make him God?
JK- This argument does not apply in this case since here there was NO MOTIVATION of manipulation. What do the Muslims or "Muslims" get by separating the two chapters 8 and 9? Nothing. Therefore the doing so is most probably part of the structure and since now we clearly see, except if we are totally blinded, that the mathematical patterns based on code-19 clearly show this. If you put a Bismillah there a great part of that miralce collapses. Then there would be 115 Bismilahs in total and 6347 verses, both of which are not ZMN. Also the singificance to count from the missing Bismilah to the extra Bismillah in 2730 would be lost and all patterns associated to it.
On the issue of the 'Basmalla' proceeding each sura...If you think that is not the case, then you have not been able to notice the obvious fact that 113 of the suras have a 'Basmalla' at their head.
JK- That still doesnt mean that there cant be one sura which does not. Your entirely specualting for which you have no evidence.
Use your own judgement and do not let the 'mathematical pattern' become an obsession and get in the way of objectivity. Remove the man-made chapter names and show me how you determine the start of a Sura if not for the 'Basmallah'
JK- The mathematical pattern was applied on EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS WEHICH DID NOT HAVE A BISMILLAH AT THE BEGINNING OF SURA 9. Thus it is you who is trying to force something into the text which was never there. And yes before i forget the mathematical structure may further be used to correct spelling mistakes and find out which verses do not belong to the Quran once we know that a pattern exists. This is how the system works. It's just like a wire system. Suppose we find a robot whose wires have a consistent pattern EXCEPT some which we find out have not been connected properly or added so that it doesnt function or not properly. On removal we now see that it works absolutely fine. By the cdeo-19 pattern GOD has enabled us to distinguish the true Quran from the corrupted Mushaf in our times.
Finally, on the mathematical pattern that you speak of...I agree there is a 'mathematical pattern', but not the results of which you are pushing through or promoting...
JK- You accept part of it while you deny another part? Doesnt sound reasonable.
For God's sake, the people who accept the RK results of code 19 are blind to the most simple mistake such as the total verse numbers (even after the deletion of 128 & 129) not being a 19 divisible number.
JK- The total verse number is 6346 which is very well ZMN. Even thne sum of it's digits equals 19.
That little overlooked fact in itself (pluse the other ignored fact of there being 113 Basmallas - not a 19 divisible number) places the entire research/data in question...But do we ever see it being discussed and rectified by the RK data supporters? No, they simply continue to repeat the same wrong data day aftyer day year after year.
JK- You forgot the Bismillah statement in 2730, thus making them 114. This is a marvellous thing which you probably dont see. And please dont come up with your senseless argument that 2730 is not like a Bismillah because it is mrerely part of a verse because that is silly. Why did GOD mention Solomon to have started his letter with "Bismillah irrahman iraheem"? Why not just "Bismillah" like we find in 11.41? Why that particular phrase was used which we find atop 113 suras? Obviously to make it's count equal to 114 which is ZMN. Simple.
Why is that? Is tradition (RK tradition) more valuable that truth?
JK- No it is not. But day by day as i did more research i find more and more of RK's disputed work to have been true also especially regarding that of code-19. Maybe in the future GW we may also see the Alif counts having been correct. GOD Bless!
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Salaams Brother Layth,
I personally wouldn't object to the Bismillah Addition, but only if you had substantial proof that the earliest qurans have this,
Or
i would strongly recomend that, you have a note of some sought printed next to the rights reserved so everybody knows the change you've made in the copy of your quran.
Salaams.
