How can a Camel pass through a needle?

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

A camel CANNOT penetrate the eye of a needle, thats the point of the allegory.

(740) Surely those who lied/denied/falsified with Our signs and became arrogant from/about it, the sky's doors do not open for them, and nor they enter the Garden until the camel enters/penetrates in the needle's/sewing needle's eye/threading hole, and as/like that We reward/reimburse the criminals/sinners.

NEVER will that happen D

phoenix1

peace

the same way jesus was born without a father and had super powers. D

unknownuser

Need help with this

Because it was copied from the Holy Bible...

jonny_k

Salam "Apple Pie",

Because it was copied from the Holy Bible...

JK- No it was not and this would actually be a good example. Jesus is quoted to have said in the NT that it is as difficult for a RICH MAN to enter paradise as it is for the camel to pass through the needle's eye while the Quran, while using the same allegory relates it to the UNBELIEVERS/REJECTORS OF GOD'S SIGNS. That is much more logical. Not all rich people are bad. If they are righteous and spend in the name of GOD they would surely go to paradise. You dont go to hell just because your rich so the Quran actually corrects the absurd parable given in the Bible and does NOT COPY it. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Salam "Apple Pie",

Because it was copied from the Holy Bible...

JK- No it was not and this would actually be a good example. Jesus is quoted to have said in the NT that it is as difficult for a RICH MAN to enter paradise as it is for the camel to pass through the needle's eye while the Quran, while using the same allegory relates it to the UNBELIEVERS/REJECTORS OF GOD'S SIGNS. That is much more logical. Not all rich people are bad. If they are righteous and spend in the name of GOD they would surely go to paradise. You dont go to hell just because your rich so the Quran actually corrects the absurd parable given in the Bible and does NOT COPY it. GOD Bless!

lol

that was a good reply bro

cheers

unknownuser

Salam "Apple Pie",

Because it was copied from the Holy Bible...

JK- No it was not and this would actually be a good example. Jesus is quoted to have said in the NT that it is as difficult for a RICH MAN to enter paradise as it is for the camel to pass through the needle's eye while the Quran, while using the same allegory relates it to the UNBELIEVERS/REJECTORS OF GOD'S SIGNS. That is much more logical. Not all rich people are bad. If they are righteous and spend in the name of GOD they would surely go to paradise. You dont go to hell just because your rich so the Quran actually corrects the absurd parable given in the Bible and does NOT COPY it. GOD Bless!

Let's look...

Koranic Heaven

The entrance?

Door in Heaven, Koran (740)

Door in Heaven, Book of Revelation (38, 320, 41)

Door in Heaven, Koran

That those who lied/denied/falsified with Our verses/evidences and became arrogant from/about it, the sky's/space's doors/entrances do not be (get) opened for them, and nor they enter the Paradise, until the camel enters/penetrates in the needle's/sewing needle's eye/threading hole, and as/like that We reward/reimburse the criminals/sinners. (740)

Special note

Sura 740 shows a classic example of Biblical scripture splicing. Look at the Biblical, Camel passing through the needle eye, verses below?

And again I say to you, It is easier for a camel to pass through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. (Mat 1924)

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle, than for a rich one to enter into the kingdom of God. (Mar 1025)

For it is easier for a camel to go in through a needle's eye than for a rich one to enter into the kingdom of God. (Luke 1825)

Door in Heaven, Book of Revelation

I know your works. BEHOLD, I HAVE GIVEN A DOOR BEING OPENED BEFORE YOU, AND NO ONE IS ABLE TO SHUT IT, for you have a little power and have kept My Word, and have not denied My name. (Rev 3

BEHOLD, I STAND AT THE DOOR AND KNOCK IF ANYONE HEARS MY VOICE AND OPENS THE DOOR, I will enter to him, and I will dine with him, and he with Me. (Rev 320)

After these things I saw. And BEHOLD, A DOOR BEING OPENED IN HEAVEN! And I heard the first voice as a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you what needs to happen after these things. (Rev 41)

Summary

How do you enter Heaven?...Revelation, door?Koran, door
Where is the door?...Revelation, Heaven?Koran, sky/space
Who opens the door?...Revelation, Jesus is the door?Koran, Allah
Who is allowed to enter through the door?...Revelation, believers?Koran, believers
Allah has aligned his ?deity? with that of Jesus
The Koran is stating that Jesus is God

unknownuser

Hey AP

keep up the good work bro, thanks for continuing to confirm that all messages sent are from the same and one God

lol

have a nice day

unknownuser

Hey AP

keep up the good work bro, thanks for continuing to confirm that all messages sent are from the same and one God

lol

have a nice day

Thanks for affirming that Jesus is God.....!!! D

unknownuser

Hey AP

keep up the good work bro, thanks for continuing to confirm that all messages sent are from the same and one God

lol

have a nice day

Thanks for affirming that Jesus is God.....!!! D

you are a manipulator and a liar, firstly I didn't say that, secondly PROVE YOU CALIM THAT JESUS IS GOD FROM THE QURAN but not from the hebro rubbish you post

now the onus is on your neck to prove that the Quran said jesus is god, and if you don't you will be classified in my book as a manipulator, a liar, a fabricator, a confused being and a lost soul

your call

unknownuser

AP

to prove that Jesus is god, any proofs from the bible will be thrown in the rubbish bin, you can only use the preserved Quran, the reason is simply this

Confessions of the New American Bible
The New American Bible is an official Christian Bible. Yet it contains many points of interest and value to the Muslim caller to Islam. Every caller who intends to use the Bible should get a copy of this Bible. Get especially (if you can) the St. Joseph Medium Size Edition.

The introduction to this Bible includes an article entitled How to Read Your Bible. This article makes a lot of valuable points. it reproduce for your edification some of the main points offered in that introduction. Everything listed in the points below is directly asserted in the article itself or implied therein. I have only summarized. I did not improvise. Where I use my own words I still represent the ideas of the authors. Often, you will notice the presence of quotations marks. These mark off the included words as the words actually used by the editors of the New American Bible, St. Joseph Medium Size Edition. The article from which the points are drawn is found on pages 17 to 35 of the introduction. Consider these points

What the Scholars confess about the Bible in General

The Bible is not necessarily the most read book or the best understood book.
The Bible was inspired by God. But "This does not mean that God dictated His message as a businessman dictates a letter to a secretary. God takes the author as he is and leaves him free to choose his own means of communication."
"Some authors chose existing folk tales and even beast fables to bring out their point."
There is a difference between INSPIRATION and REVELATION. The entire Bible is inspiration but not the whole Bible is revelation. The authors of the Bible were inspired to search for meaning in life and in the events of history. The search for answers was inspired, but the answers found were not necessary revealed by God. But some of those answers are written in the Bible by the human authors. Some of what they wrote clearly cannot be attributed to God. "Think of the ?holy wars? of total destruction, fought by the Hebrews when they invaded Palestine. The search for meaning in those wars centuries later was inspired, but the conclusions which attributed all those atrocities to the command of God were imperfect and provisional."
An example of such atrocities is in Judges11-18. Read it for yourself.
The Bible is a collection of many books of different kinds. "A major disadvantage is that these books are not put together systematically as the books of a modern library."
"Edifying interpretation of events" is "often intermingled" with history.
"The Bible is God?s word and man?s word. One must understand man?s word first in order to understand the word of God."
The Bible contains "Beast Fables." Examples Genesis; Numbers 22, 22-35.
Speeches of persons in the Bible are not necessarily what the persons said. "It is the inspired author who wants to state something by putting these words into the mouth of a person with authority."
The book known as Acts of the Apostles in the Bible often puts words into the mouths of its characters.
The description of the heavens and the earth in Genesis, chapter 1, is not necessarily a true description. That description is conditioned by the time and culture in which it was written. "Do not be shocked about this!"
"The sacred writers attribute quite a number of human characteristics to God." This too is "conditioned by time and culture."
The Psalms are a collection of poems full of feeling. Psalm 137, verses 8 and 9 pronounces a blessing on one who grabs a Babylonian baby and dashes it against a rock. In this psalm "The feeling, the thought, the total poem is inspired (guided) by God, though it is not necessarily revealed truth!" But this is not the only Psalm which is not necessarily revealed truth. To find out for yourself, "Read some psalms!"

What the scholars confess about the Gospels in particular

"What did the authors of the Gospels do? In the congregations, mainly in the cities around the Mediterranean, they found scores of narratives about Jesus, the beloved Founder of the Christian faith. The writers took those narratives and frequently even remoulded and refashioned them to bring out the lesson they wanted to teach."
Therefore the four Gospels are not really biographies of Jesus. They are "digests of Christian teaching concerning the risen Lord Jesus."
"A remarkable fact is that for a long time Christians misunderstood" this truth about the Gospels.
The genealogy of Jesus in Matthew?s Gospel chapter 1, verses 1-17, is not an absolutely true genealogy. First, Matthew took it perhaps from the family of Joseph. Second, "the sacred writer refashioned this document to a list of three times fourteen ancestors."
"Reading the Gospels, one should distinguish historical facts from theological elaboration."
The Gospels often represent Jesus in controversy and conversation. "One may ask Was Jesus involved in these conversations? Did He answer exactly as related in the Bible? It is not certain."
There may be some true events and "controversies which supplied the background materials for the conflict stories of the Gospels. But as these accounts now stand, they are literary forms used by the Gospel writers in their catechisms to bring out what they had to tell the opponents of early Christianity."
Matthew tells us that baby Jesus was taken to Egypt. This is not necessarily true. But since Israel had been in Egypt, and since Israel was God?s chosen one, Matthew placed Jesus in Egypt to convince his readers that Jesus was the real Israel. "This is a strange literary device, but the ancient writers loved to work with this kind of figurative speech."
"It is difficult to know whether the words or sayings attributed to are written exactly as He spoke them."
"True, the Gospels are based on sound historical facts as related by eye-witnesses, but both deeds and words of Jesus are offered to us in the framework or theological interpretation."
Did Jesus say the things which the Gospels report? "The Church was so firmly convinced that the risen Lord who is the Jesus of history lived in her, and taught through her, that she expressed her teaching in the form of Jesus? sayings." The words are not Jesus but from the Church.
"Can we discover at least some words of Jesus that have escaped such elaboration? Bible scholars point to the very short sayings of Jesus, as for example those put together by Matthew in chapter 5, 1-12"
The Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, chapters 5 to 7, was delivered by Jesus while he was on a mount ? or was he? Matthew only represented the matter such in order to show that Jesus was like Moses who received the law on Mount Sinai. Jesus was not really on a mountain. This is only a figurative device used by Matthew.
"Walk into a modern library, you will find all the books neatly arranged under fiction and non-fiction. It is not that simple in the library called the Bible. How does one know whether one deals with history or some form of figurative speech?" To begin with you should always be disposed to follow the teaching authority of the Church."
"The signature of a bishop in your Bible assures you that opinions, expressed in footnotes and introductions, reflect what is generally accepted as sound doctrine in the Catholic tradition."
"Knowing that early Christians mistakenly expected Christ?s second coming during their own lifetime, helps you to understand 1 and 2 Thessalonians." The first of these two books in the Bible is written under the said mistaken expectation.
"The Hebrews were restless searchers for meaning in our human condition. Reading their inspired literature should challenge you to go on with a faithful search for meaning in your own situation."

There you have it folks. A collection of confessions of the scholars who edited the New American Bible. The words within quotation marks are their own. All the ideas are their own. Some of the said ideas they have explicitly stated; others they clearly imply. Words within square brackets were inserted where necessary to make the points clear. Use these points to help convince Catholics.

The title page of this Bible shows that the book is "authorized by the Board of Trustees of the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine" and "approved by the Administrative Committee/Board of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops" and the "United States Catholic Conference." It is published by the Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1986. The Bible contains all the necessary Catholic certification the Nihil Obstat, and the Imprimatur from the Archbishop of Washington. And, oh, yes! A letter from the Vatican, including the signature of the Pope, appears in the preface to guarantee the reliability of this Bible for Catholics.

Protestants and others may not be convinced by the confessions. They may object that these are not their own scholars. Yet many Protestant scholars have reached the very same conclusions. But that is the subject for another article. Notice, however, that you can always argue that the points above are admitted by friends of the Bible. Even one who does not recognise the authority of Catholic Bishops will have to admit that they are nevertheless friends of the Bible. Their testimony above cannot be discounted so easily.

unknownuser

AP

here is another reason that any evidences from your corrupt bible can not be admissable

"How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?'"
(From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie."
(From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8

unknownuser

AP

if the above is not enough to convince you that your bible is corrupt and the flase human words were inserted into it, here is Moses prediction that it must happen, Deuteronomy 3125-29 we read Moses predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.

25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

(Deuteronomy 3125-29)

sawtooth

but who is to say that the new revision is not the false scribe?

it's all metaphor used to get a particular behaviour out of a group of people usually through the use of fear.

unknownuser

Hello AP,

Did Jesus say that you must be a Christian or else you will go to hell?
Absolutely not!. Jesus promised and guaranteed Paradise to non-trinitarians.
There is not a single Verse in the New Testament where Jesus promises hell fire to those who are not Christians.

"And they say 'None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.' Those are their (vain) desires. Say 'Produce your proof if ye are truthful.?

The word "Christian" is not a valid word, for there is no religion of Christianity according to Islam.
According to Islam, Jesus came and Preached the Gospel. Jesus' followers were never called Christians. All of the religions of GOD Almighty taught the Oneness of GOD Almighty, which means "Islam" in Arabic.
Jesus was mostly concerned about teaching good ethics and morals to his followers. Let us look at few quotations of Jesus from the New Testament

"In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said `It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"
(Acts 2035)

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
( Matthew 510 )

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
( Matthew 59 )

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."
( Matthew 56 )

"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."
( Matthew 57 )

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."
( Matthew 58 )

"Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
( Matthew 54 )

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
( Matthew 55 )

"Here, O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord."
( Mark 1229)

In the above Sayings of our beloved Prophet Jesus peace be upon him, we clearly see that he was most concerned with "righteousness". It doesn't make any sense that Allah Almighty would bless a person and throw him in hell at the same time. When Jesus said that GOD or Allah Almighty will bless those who do righteousness, he meant it.

This is the Gospel that we Muslims believe that Jesus peace be upon him taught. Believe in One True Living GOD Almighty, and love each others.

Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran

"They do blaspheme who say 'Allah is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' Whoever joins other gods with Allah- Allah will forbid hi the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help.?

Thanks for reading

unknownuser

Hey AP

keep up the good work bro, thanks for continuing to confirm that all messages sent are from the same and one God

lol

have a nice day

Thanks for affirming that Jesus is God.....!!! D

you are a manipulator and a liar, firstly I didn't say that, secondly PROVE YOU CALIM THAT JESUS IS GOD FROM THE QURAN but not from the hebro rubbish you post

now the onus is on your neck to prove that the Quran said jesus is god, and if you don't you will be classified in my book as a manipulator, a liar, a fabricator, a confused being and a lost soul

your call

No problem.

Pick any one of the 29 ayahs in sura 81...

unknownuser

Sorry AP

the onus is on you to pick, not me

here is another thing to think about while you are picking

Each time an older manuscript of the Bible is discovered, many changes are required in the Bible to bring it in line with the ancient manuscripts. Mark 11 reads as follows

?The beginning of the Gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.?
(Mark 11, New International Version)

At the end of that verse, there is a small letter directing us to look at the footnote at the bottom of the page. There we find that some manuscripts do not have ?the Son of God?, And those were ancient, reliable manuscripts. The evidence was so compelling that the editors of one Bible just simply removed the title Son of God from the verse altogether. Thus in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures the verse reads

?The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ?
(Mark 11)

The title ?Son of God? is no longer in that verse., can you please explain to me why all these descrpencies regarding this very important issue?

Thank you

unknownuser

Sorry AP

the onus is on you to pick, not me

Sure thing...

unknownuser

Excuse me sir

what that suppose to tell me exactly?, I could see not Isa's name any where in the verse neither I read that he is god

here is a the verse and theone before it

(19)

(20)

-> Verse 8119 "Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger, "

-> Verse 8120 "Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne"

Are you suffering from low IQ or somethin bro?, the verses are clear as light it is talking about prophet Mohammad, and even if you dispute that Mohammad was not mentioned, that is fine, you must at least concede, it was about one of Allah messnegers as 8119 CLEARLY STATES "Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger, "

NEXT AP

unknownuser

Excuse me sir

what that suppose to tell me exactly?, I could see not Isa's name any where in the verse neither I read that he is god

here is a the verse and theone before it

(19)

(20)

-> Verse 8119 "Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger, "

-> Verse 8120 "Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne"

Are you suffering from low IQ or somethin bro?, the verses are clear as light it is talking about prophet Mohammad, and even if you dispute that Mohammad was not mentioned, that is fine, you must at least concede, it was about one of Allah messnegers as 8119 CLEARLY STATES "Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger, "

NEXT AP

Now....try exegeting what it states...

Summary of 81.19

Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

? Revelation tells us that the ?logos?, or Word, of God, is Jesus
? 81.19 begins by informing us of something that is ?inna?, or certain
? This thing that is certain is applied to ?qawlu?, or Word, via the personal pronoun ?hu?, or His, and possessive affirmative particle ?la? ? thus giving the Word as an inherent attribute of Him
? ?laqawlu? occurs three times in the Koran, and in each occurrence it is beyond any reasonable doubt that it directly refers to Jesus
? 81.19 also informs us that His Word is a ?kareemin?, or holy, ?rasoolin?, or message
? Sura 81 acknowledges Jesus as the Word of God

Summary of 81.20

Thee quwwatin AAinda thee alAAarshi makeenin

81.20 Lord of power in the presence and possession of the throne, the established one.

? Revelation tells us that the Jesus occupies the Throne of God
? 81.20 builds upon 81.19 by informing us that His Word (i.e. Jesus) with the Holy Message, is ?thee? (genitive case) in possession of ?quwwatin? (singular), or the one (and only) power
? Amazingly, in addition to ?quwwatin? referring to power or strength, it also has the meaning ?and separately twisted portion of two or more which, being twisted together, compose the whole of a rope, and of a string, or thread?
? Thus, ?quwwatin? conveys the idea of two (or more) things intertwined to become one thing
? Revelation informs us that the Lamb is in the ?mesos?, or midst of the ?thronos?, or throne
? Likewise, 81.20 tells us that He is ?inda? (A particle used as a preposition to denote time and place), or in the presence of ?alAAarshi?, or the throne
? There are numerous Koranic examples where allah is ?Lord of the throne?; thus, when the Word (i.e. Jesus) is referred to as Lord of the Throne ? there can be no doubt that Jesus is God
? 81.20 specifically utilizes ?thee? twice in this one ayah; the first is to signify possession of the singular power of the Word, and the second is used to signify the possession of the throne by the Word
? Revelation tells us that the one sitting on the throne is of the appearance of ?sardinos?, or a reddish brown variety of chalcedony
? Interestingly, 81.20 describes the ?arshi?, or throne as ?a red sapphire, which glistens with the light of the supreme?
? 81.20 closes by mentioning ?makeenin?, or the established one, from the root ?makuna? (meaning he made Him to have dominion) which clearly indicates that the Word (from 81.19), is God Almighty
? The authors of the Koran copied the Book of Revelation, and, more importantly, they understood who the Biblical Jesus is. Revelation clearly shows us the deity interchangeability between God and Jesus, as they are one in the same. Ironically, this ayah also demonstrates the same exact thing by showing that the two are, in fact, one in the same

unknownuser

ok hold it there until I go home and read it then I will respond to it

Salam