Does God/Allah have a Soul?
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Salaamun alaikum,
TheSufi Nafs is something only a created being has, but Spirit is a different matter.
False. According to Al-Quraan, Isa says
Thou knowest what is in my nafs and I know not what is in your nafs (5/116)Allah did not correct Isa by saying 'I dont have a nafs' even though Allah is conversing with Isa at this point.
It is not clear when average people are having a conversation what they mean by the word "soul" even while talking to each other and both being native English speakers. Some consider it to be the Nafs others the Ruh.
Good that you've identified the problem. The trick is to identify the semantic space carved out by the word 'nafs'. 255 ayaat will tell us what the word represents.
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Thank you Mquran.
I am not sure what to think about the comment of Isa (PBUH) which you have illustrated. Perhaps English speakers are right after all, or perhaps it might mean that I just have to revise my understanding of where and what a nafs is inside us.
Thank you again.
Jewish terms Nepesh and Ruach and Islamic terms Nafs and Ruh are identical and it is considered that Psychology -being a dominantly Jewish discipline until Jung, made use of these ideas in Ego and Id. We may need to consider "Lower Self", "Middle Self", "Higher Self", the subconscious and the superconsious together in the discussion. Perhaps consciousness floats between identification with Lowerself and identification with Higherself, and middle-self is an illusion?
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Thank you Mquran
Welcome.
I am not sure what to think about the comment of Isa (PBUH) which you have illustrated. Perhaps English speakers are right after all, or perhaps it might mean that I just have to revise my understanding of where and what a nafs is inside us.
Thank you again.
Perhaps Nafs simply means mind!English is my first language but I feel that the dynamic usage of the English language renders it untrustworthy. There's no book in the English while can be a definitive guide to meaning of concepts as al-quraan does in Arabic. So when you say 'mind', you will use the same word as a philosopher and a psychologist. However, their understandings will be different (perhaps only slightly) from yours and even each others. It all depends on the rooting of the words. Al-Quraan confirms its own language.
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ThesufiJewish terms Nepesh and Ruach and Islamic terms Nafs and Ruh are identical and it is considered that Psychology -being a dominantly Jewish discipline until Jung, made use of these ideas in Ego and Id. We may need to consider "Lower Self", "Middle Self", "Higher Self", the subconscious and the superconsious together in the discussion.
Ok. I've read a book which alleges that Freud used Talmudic concepts to construct his theories so you may something here. I've a long way to go before I can comment on them though.
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English is a funny language.
Selfish means "me me me mine mine mine".
The id is supposed to be animal-body instinct which is also "me me me mine mine mine" (Selfish).
When someone says egocentric it means inflated sense of self-imortance.
But if ego and id are different, does this mean that someone can have an inflated sense of self importance without being selfish???
Some people talk about the importance of killing ones ego.
Others talk about the necessity of taking the journey to the self but when you get there one only becomes self-conscious.
Besides self-consious, one can be semi-coscious, unconsious, even fully-consious or superconsious but one can not be subconsious.
Can we search God's mind whithout going out of our minds?
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Thank you Mquran.
I am not sure what to think about the comment of Isa (PBUH) which you have illustrated. Perhaps English speakers are right after all, or perhaps it might mean that I just have to revise my understanding of where and what a nafs is inside us.
Thank you again.
Hello bro
please be aware, in the verse about Isa the word nafs does not mean a physical soul, nafs is used to represent the whole entities of Allah and Jesus in this verse, that is why the word "INSIDE" "Fi" and we know that nothing is inside the soul for sure, but the sould are INSIDE THE BODIES, the heart was used in same manner many times, in fact the heart was used as something that thinks instead of the brain and the word "think" was assciated with the heart in the same verse, i might find the verse for you
so you explanantion about the human soul may be correct, which is a human soul MUST BE CREAETED by a God, while God's soul is ever existing and was never created, the Quran told us very lil "almost nothing" about the human soul
just my 2c
peace man
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ABplease be aware, in the verse about Isa the word nafs does not mean a physical soul, nafs is used to represent the whole entities of Allah and Jesus, the heart was used in same manner many times, in fact the heart was used as something that thinks instead of the brain and the word "think" was assciated with the heart in the same verse, i might find the verse for you
Once again the perennial cause of our disagreement shows itself. To you, al-quraan's language is incidental, must be judged according to the Arabic cusomary use. To me, Al-quraan's language is purposeful. If Allah used nafs, He meant nafs. He could gave used 'qalb, sadr, fu'ad' or something more processual like 'fikr, hisb' (in your calculation instead of in your nafs) etc etc. But He didn't. He used nafs. There's a reason for this and exploring the reason will yield us more of Quranic wisdom.
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Thank you Ahmed,
Thus Nafs can then mean identity. Our identity is composed of all sorts of subtle nuances hence the trouble philosophers and psychologists have in trying to explain it. Allah knows our identities perfectly, but we can not search Allah's likewise. This is not to be confused with The Ruh which does make up part of our identities (Nafs), but of which we know but a little.
Shamsul, have we come to a good enough conclusion for you?
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Thank you Ahmed,
Thus Nafs can then mean identity. Our identity is composed of all sorts of subtle nuances hence the trouble philosophers and psychologists have in trying to explain it. Allah knows our identities perfectly, but we can not search Allah's likewise. This is not to be confused with The Ruh which does make up part of our identities (Nafs), but of which we know but a little.
Shamsul, have we come to a good enough conclusion for you?
not sure bro here what you mean, I based my comment that Nafs means Roh literally, however in Isa's verse the Nafs was used to represnt identities 'better word, thanks" and there is no mention to Roh Allah in it
in anther location there was mentio to Roha Allah, however I'm open to acceot that nafs does not mean 100% roh, i have no problem with that bro as long as it does not create a conflict in the Quran, in any case and whatever bafs really means, it was used in isa's verse to metphorically represent his identity
peace man
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ABplease be aware, in the verse about Isa the word nafs does not mean a physical soul, nafs is used to represent the whole entities of Allah and Jesus, the heart was used in same manner many times, in fact the heart was used as something that thinks instead of the brain and the word "think" was assciated with the heart in the same verse, i might find the verse for you
Once again the perennial cause of our disagreement shows itself.
that is fine mquran, too many members disagree with each other in here and all around the world, the important note is it should not be this way if we meant to be following the one and true religion, but I guess Iblis is very clever
To you, al-quraan's language is incidental,
yes many parts in it is
must be judged according to the Arabic cusomary use.
of course and because the Quran was originally made in Arabic not chinease
To me, Al-quraan's language is purposeful.
of course it is also this way, do you say it can't be the same as i see and as you see at once?
If Allah used nafs, He meant nafs. He could gave used 'qalb, sadr, fu'ad' or something more processual like 'fikr, hisb' (in your calculation instead of in your nafs) etc etc. But He didn't. He used nafs. There's a reason for this and exploring the reason will yield us more of Quranic wisdom.
I don't get the confusion you are creating mquran?, regardless of what you say or what i say, the clear arabic sentence without any doubt means the nafs was used to refer to an entity of the whole thing not part of it and I see this good enough understanding according to purpose of the arabic context
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that is fine mquran, too many members disagree with each other in here and all around the world, the important note is it should not be this way if we meant to be following the one and true religion, but I guess Iblis is very clever
I'm sorry, I dont judge like so. To me claiming to be a muslim is of no meaning in this forum, I don't know who's a muslim and who's not. Islam operates in real life. In real life, we can see people's behaviours if they conform to al-quraan or not.
of course and because the Quran was originally made in Arabic not chinease
Does this entail that it must enslaved to arabic lexicography ? Not to me, sorry.
of course it is also this way, do you say it can't be the same as i see and as you see at once?
In this case, no. It cannot be both incidental and purposeful at the same time, mate.
I don't get the confusion you are creating mquran?, regardless of what you say or what i say, the clear arabic sentence without any doubt means the nafs was used to refer to an entity of the whole thing not part of it and I see this good enough understanding according to purpose of the arabic context
So why do you say 'please be aware, in the verse about Isa the word nafs does not mean a physical soul, nafs is used to represent the whole entities of Allah and Jesus in this verse, that is why the word "INSIDE" "Fi" and we know that nothing is inside the soul for sure, but the sould are INSIDE THE BODIES, the heart was used in same manner many times, in fact the heart was used as something that thinks instead of the brain and the word "think" was assciated with the heart in the same verse, i might find the verse for you
Whats a physical soul anyway?
My assertion is, a 'nafs' must have the same properties of the nafs concept. So Allah's nafs and our nafs have that common property. Now, just what IS a nafs, that's the question.