MANY DISCREPENCIES ON THE FREE MIND FRONT PAGE
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Peace Amanda,
I HAVE FOUND MANY DISCREPENCIES REGARDING THE VERSES POSTED ON THE FRONT PAGE OF WWW.FREE-MINDS.ORG LIKE VERSE 1690 I LOOKED IT UP IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME VERSE ALONMG WITH LIKE 3 MORE ON THE SAME PAGE!!! I CONTACTED MARIE AND LAYTH STILL NO RESPONSE REGARDING THIS ISSUE WHAT IS GOING ON ?
WHAT IS GONG ON?
I think, it is to do with numbering of the verses, which seems to differ in FM translation of Quran(The Message).
This may given an idea.From
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/- Warsh Verse Numbering
In addition to the textual variation between the existing printed versions, there is also the issue of the verse 'stops' which significantly differ from one version to the other.
The approach of this translation, in addition to adding the 'Basmallahs' to the count, has been to use the 'Warsh verse count' as published by the King Fahad Quran Complex. This version of the counts is found to be the 'more' accurate based on a comparison with older surviving texts, as well as based on the consistency with which the verse stops are placed (this can be seen in the example of treating all 'Basmallahs' with consistency, as well as the way the verse stops occur with consistency in the initialed chapters).
- The Missing 'Basmallah'
One of the strangest aspects of the printed Scripture is the lack of a 'Basmallah' at the beginning of chapter 9. Information written regarding this subject indicates that there is confusion as to whether the Scripture is comprised of 114 chapters, or whether it is comprised of 113 chapters (some scholars have argued that a merger of chapters 8 & 9 is possible due to the lack of the 'Basmallah').
In reviewing the older written texts, it was found that the ability to realize the separation between chapters 8 & 9, without a 'Basmallah', was nearly impossible without referring to the man-made injection of the chapter name to highlight the beginning of a new chapter.
The overall review of the Scripture and its design do seem to support the existence of 114 chapters rather than 113 (the occurrence of certain words outside the 'Basmallahs' show a frequency of 114 such as the name of God 'Al-Raheem', or the sum of the two initials 'Q' that are mathematically recorded in chapters 50 & 42 being 114).
Based on such analysis, and knowing full well that human errors have found their way into the printed Scripture, it is found that not only does the Scripture comprise of 114 chapters, but that the 'Basmallah' for chapter 9 appears to have been inadvertently dropped at some unknown stage in the copying and distribution of the Scripture. It has therefore been re-inserted into this translation with the full belief that it is indeed 'part of the original' revelation unless proven otherwise.
For example,
The Message 1690 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered.
Yususf Ali 1689 One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people) and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
And
The Message 551 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
Yusuf Ali 549 And this (He commands) Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
Peace!
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Salam all,
See now how confusing this gets when you change the universally accepted verse numbering? Layth and others sharing his eliefs cant let go off that warsh which GOD has not meant for humanisty as we can clearly see. The hafs-9128&129 has been the one which was PROVEN by code-19 by GOD's leave. GOD Bless! -
Peace Jonny k,
See now how confusing this gets when you change the universally accepted verse numbering? Layth and others sharing his eliefs cant let go off that warsh which GOD has not meant for humanisty as we can clearly see. The hafs-9128&129 has been the one which was PROVEN by code-19 by GOD's leave.
I dont think u can point a finger at re-numbering of verse, coz u support RK who has completely removed 2 verses(9128&129) from Quran.
Peace!
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Salam sister "PM",
I dont think u can point a finger at re-numbering of verse, coz u support RK who has completely removed 2 verses(9128&129) from Quran.
Peace!
JK- Please understand. It was not RK who removed those verses. It was GOD showing clearly through code-19 that they are not part of His Quran. Please read my article "The difference between Quran and Mushaf" at http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/4320/222/#msg_4320 . Btw the removal of verses has nothing to do with the individual numbering of the verses which as code-19 has shown, without doubt, that they are Divinely arranged too. GOD Bless!
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Salam "bmbmm",
Who removed 2 verses from the Quran and which two? This is wired
JK- No one removed any verses from the Quran. 9128&128 NEVER BELONGED TO THE QURAN and GOD has shown us this without doubt through code-19 by many many overwhelming physical evidence and interloking patterns. GOD Bless!
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Salam "phoenix1",
you mean wierd?
but i think RK is a complete idiot.
JK- Have you now shown your real face "phoenix1"? Are you under influence of tradition or heart's feeling? Are you making claims without verifying the code-19 for yourself? Did you read "Intelligent People's guide to code-19" at http//19.org/?books ? If not then please do so before making such statements. GOD Bless!
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Hi Jonny k,
JK- No one removed any verses from the Quran. 9128&128 NEVER BELONGED TO THE QURAN and GOD has shown us this without doubt through code-19 by many many overwhelming physical evidence and interloking patterns. GOD Bless!
Let me put it this way. If it was not for ur code 19, would u have enough reason to support the removal of those two verses(9128 & 9129) from Quran?
Peace!
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Salam sister "PM",
Let me put it this way. If it was not for ur code 19, would u have enough reason to support the removal of those two verses(9128 & 9129) from Quran?
Peace!
JK- No, probably not in this age. Therefore GOD sent the code-19 miracle. Many people ask then "well what about the people before". I answer "GOD may have had other methods of which we have no knowledge to prove which is His true Quran and which is corrupted Mushaf. We are to consider what we see and have today, which is code-19 in this case". I hope you understood me now. Btw did you read my article? GOD Bless!
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Hi Jonny k,
JK- No, probably not in this age. Therefore GOD sent the code-19 miracle. Many people ask then "well what about the people before". I answer "GOD may have had other methods of which we have no knowledge to prove which is His true Quran and which is corrupted Mushaf. We are to consider what we see and have today, which is code-19 in this case". I hope you understood me now.
So, R u saying that u base ur whole judgement that those two verses from QUran, are false ONLY AND ONLY based on the number 19?
9128 Now hath come unto you an Messenger from amongst yourselves it grieves him that ye should perish ardently anxious is he over you to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.
9129 But if they turn away, Say "(Allah) sufficeth me there is no god but He On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!"Think for a min the code 19 is not God's . Do u even realise what u r doing?
U r coveniently removing two verses from Quran becoz they dont fit ur 19 pattern.
I am sorry to say but this is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard.
Peace!
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Salam sister "PM",
So, R u saying that u base ur whole judgement that those two verses from QUran, are false ONLY AND ONLY based on the number 19?
JK- Yep. Without code-19 Quran doesnt exist for me and many others. No one can believe in a book being from GOD without proof and code-19 is just that. Seems like you believe in Quran just because of your heart's feeling. Oh well!
9128 Now hath come unto you an Messenger from amongst yourselves it grieves him that ye should perish ardently anxious is he over you to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.
9129 But if they turn away, Say "(Allah) sufficeth me there is no god but He On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!"Think for a min the code 19 is wrong . Do u even realise what u r doing?
U r coveniently removing two verses from Quran becoz they dont fit ur 19 pattern.
JK- Im not removing anything from the Quran and i believe you still didnt bother to read my article i posted above. GOD Himself has installed a pattern in the Quran whereby showing us unappreciative humans that 9128&129 are not part of it.
I am sorry to say but this is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard.
Peace!
JK- It is not ridiculous at all. You need proof to know which scripture in the world today is from GOD and which is not. Code-19 provides you that proof. And if you think the Quran is just some ink and paper between two covers then i urge you to think again because then you are wrong. The Quran is a mathematically structured book. Why dont you invest some time reading bro Edip's latest article "Intelligent people's guide to code-19"? How many times do i have to quote this before you actually take the initiative of at least reading it CAREFULLY and then you may come back and discuss it. GOD Bless!
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peace
I would like to read the "intelligent people's guide to code 19" if you provide me with the link, please, Johnny K.
Also, i said nothing about the code 19 (although i do not believe in any such thing. yet?) My opinions about RK were formed when i watched his video on evolution that you posted. -
Salam "phoenix1",
I would like to read the "intelligent people's guide to code 19" if you provide me with the link, please, Johnny K.
JK- http//19.org/?books ?
Also, i said nothing about the code 19 (although i do not believe in any such thing. yet?) My opinions about RK were formed when i watched his video on evolution that you posted.
JK- Oh ok. Well he was right there too. "Scientists must never loose there objectivity". He then uses the most powerful too scientists have to prove anything, mathematics and while calculating the probability of apes evolving to man he found that it was totally improbable. GOD Bless!
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Hi Jonny k,
So, R u saying that u base ur whole judgement that those two verses from QUran, are false ONLY AND ONLY based on the number 19?
JK- Yep. Without code-19 Quran doesnt exist for me and many others. No one can believe in a book being from GOD without proof and code-19 is just that. Seems like you believe in Quran just because of your heart's feeling. Oh well!
JK- It is not ridiculous at all. You need proof to know which scripture in the world today is from GOD and which is not. Code-19 provides you that proof. And if you think the Quran is just some ink and paper between two covers then i urge you to think again because then you are wrong. The Quran is a mathematically structured book.Yeah, I dont need any number miracle to believe in Quran as a message from God. My belief is based on the message and not on some number or some structural pattern.
So, u r saying code 19 proves to u Quran is from God while other scriptures(since they dont have code 19) of other faith arent from God.
Here is a question for u. Say, for eg, there comes a scripture now which is mathematically and beautifully structured with code 19, which says
''there are 19 Gods such as sun, moon, dove, ants, swan, monkey, aligator, venus, crow, mountains, fire, thunder, lion, owl, snake, grasshopper, bee, stars and rainbow, each of which have different roles in creation and maintenance of life and world.
and Certain races such as the white are superior to all mankind and all other races are meant to be their slaves
and sun rises in west
and water contains evil horned devils living in them etc''wink Would u believe its from God?
If all u want is proof such as code 19 to believe in a book as from God,
What if someone comes up with code 21 in New Testament, Would u then believe the new testament are the exact words of God and thus start believing Jesus is our saviour? winkAnd here is what Allah says in Quran to those who keep asking for miracles and signs to believe in Quran
2949 Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
2950 Ye they say "Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?" Say "The signs are indeed with Allah. and I am indeed a clear Warner."
2951 And is it not enough for them that we have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe.
2952 Say "Enough is Allah for a witness between me and you He knows what is in the heavens and on earth. And it is those who believe in vanities and reject Allah, that will perish (in the end).And regarding u saying, some people believe in Quran and Islam, only becoz of the miracle Code 19, I'd like to point out that ur mere mentioning of Code 19 as the reason for one to be in Islam, may make converts of islam want to leave Islam, becoz the belief is crude and blind.
No offence meant.
Peace!
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JK- Yep. Without code-19 Quran doesnt exist for me and many others. No one can believe in a book being from GOD without proof and code-19 is just that. Seems like you believe in Quran just because of your heart's feeling. Oh well!
Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur'an, or are their hearts locked up by them
(47/24)And you call KGB ignorant ?
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Peace Amanda,
I HAVE FOUND MANY DISCREPENCIES REGARDING THE VERSES POSTED ON THE FRONT PAGE OF WWW.FREE-MINDS.ORG LIKE VERSE 1690 I LOOKED IT UP IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME VERSE ALONMG WITH LIKE 3 MORE ON THE SAME PAGE!!! I CONTACTED MARIE AND LAYTH STILL NO RESPONSE REGARDING THIS ISSUE WHAT IS GOING ON ?
There is no error, the numbering is deemed to be correct as explained in the Preface to the translation.
Where the discrepency lies is in the current 'Hafs' versions of the Scripture that are being mass produced.
Do we care about 'truth' or about following the masses and simply blending in?
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Salam sister "PM",
Yeah, I dont need any number miracle to believe in Quran as a message from God. My belief is based on the message and not on some number or some structural pattern.
JK- Ok then you should know that the Bible,being a collection of various scriptures, also has scriptures in it which contain an almost perfect message. Why not stick with those laws then? Dont you see that this is relative. In our current society people wont accept "lashing 100 times" or even "marking the hands" unless SOLID PROOF can be brought up that the message is really from GOD. Actually you dont really believe in the complete Quran but maybe part of it, parts which you like you accept while others you reject. Thats not how it should be. Then i might just go and pickout the best parts from the Bible or geeta, veda, etc and start following it. Big deal!
So, u r saying code 19 proves to u Quran is from God while other scriptures(since they dont have code 19) of other faith arent from God.
JK- Yep thats right, code-19 is the strongest proof we have today of the Quran's authenticity. Btw in parts of the Torah fragments of code-19 were found too which shows they too were from GOD but got lost with time.
Here is a question for u. Say, for eg, there comes a scripture now which is mathematically and beautifully structured with code 19, which says
''there are 19 Gods such as sun, moon, dove, ants, swan, monkey, aligator, venus, crow, mountains, fire, thunder, lion, owl, snake, grasshopper, bee, stars and rainbow, each of which have different roles in creation and maintenance of life and world.
and Certain races such as the white are superior to all mankind and all other races are meant to be their slaves
and sun rises in west
and water contains evil horned devils living in them etc''wink Would u believe its from God?
JK- I dont believe Satan can immitate the mathematical pattern in the Quran. It has never been done and cannot be done. GOD doesnt allow Satan to succeed.
If all u want is proof such as code 19 to believe in a book as from God,
What if someone comes up with code 21 in New Testament, Would u then believe the new testament are the exact words of God and thus start believing Jesus is our saviour? winkJK- As i said it isimpossible. GOD doesnt allow Satan to triumph. Satan cant match GOD and neither the patterns He makes.
And here is what Allah says in Quran to those who keep asking for miracles and signs to believe in Quran
2949 Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
2950 Ye they say "Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?" Say "The signs are indeed with Allah. and I am indeed a clear Warner."
2951 And is it not enough for them that we have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe.
2952 Say "Enough is Allah for a witness between me and you He knows what is in the heavens and on earth. And it is those who believe in vanities and reject Allah, that will perish (in the end).JK- I dont keep asking for proofs. GOD sent His proof as He deemed at fit and you are rejecting it while i gladly accept it and say "GOD be praised". Do you see the difference. Btw did you know that Abraham also asked for a sign
Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You revive the dead." He said, "Do you not believe?" He said, "Yes, but I wish to reassure my heart." He said, "Take four birds, study their marks, place a piece of each bird on top of a hill, then call them to you. They will come to you in a hurry. You should know that GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."And regarding u saying, some people believe in Quran and Islam, only becoz of the miracle Code 19, I'd like to point out that ur mere mentioning of Code 19 as the reason for one to be in Islam, may make converts of islam want to leave Islam, becoz the belief is crude and blind.
No offence meant.
Peace!
JK- Hows this belief crude and blind especially when it converted a die hard atheist like bro Bahman( http//www.y19.net ) to the Quran Alone? Now let me ask you something Did you read brother Edip's article "Intelligent People's guide to code-19"? GOD Bless!
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Pheonix you are bright young man. Read Idiot's Guide to Code 19. This will show you the true picture of Code 19.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/ayman19.htm
You can also follow the debate in Articles section between Ayman and Edip.
Bmbmm you should also read this excellent article and debate.
