Why do so many Quran Aloners still use the term "Allah"
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Well many Muslims are now using "Muslim" derrogatory too. It just no longer (as if it ever was) just flows from the mouth.. It's not "Muslim" its a "MUSSLLIM"... the "Muslim" is stressed. You think that Pat Robertson is saying "muslim" nicely??? Should we stoop calling ourselves Muslims aswell? And refer to ourselves as some Enlgish translation of it or else?
salaam
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AhmedI'm afraid I can't agree with this statement because I included the word almost in my statement
With the 'almost' , your argument fails. Let me recap for you
AB The irrefutable argument against those who say Allah = Al + Ilah , is this All of Allah other names was almost (as far as I know) expressed with the ?Al? and without the ?Al? to refer to him, EXCEPT ?Allah
Therefore if there are any names with a 'no al', Allah is still possibly 'al-ilah' contracted, according to your argument above.
To me , a better argument would be to resort to the fact that al-quraan is kitaaban mutashabihan mathany. Therefore, if Allah was like any other name, it would be 'al-ilah'. But its not. Therefore, it cannot be the same.
what you are going on about?
I said almost every name was used with Al and without Al, now you are working hard to make that statement wrong
fine, make it wrong, but in your books not mine
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Salam bro "AB",
Bro not every word that starts with Al, means it is the Al "Al Muarafa"
all the names other than Allah, you can remove the Al and it will still be valid, EXCEPT ALLAH, if you remove the Al, you will end up with a non sensible word which is "Lah" represented by only two arabic letters "Lam & Ha". and this word does not exist as far as I believe
i wonder why you want to change this common kbnoweldge about Allah even before Islam came to existance, your motion is very silly and uncalled for bro, sorry to tell you that
Peace
JK- The point is that in "Al-ilah" the second "Alif" is dropped to EASE THE PRONOUNCIATION, and hence we have "Allah". Even without the "alif" though "lah" is NOT A NONSENSIBLE WORD. "lah" means "to him". Infact bro "Layth" sugested the meaning of "Allah" to be "the to him(in the sense that God is the one to Whom all things belong and return). There's nothing more mystical about that. GOD Bless!
Peace bro
there is no such thingh in Arabic bro, to drop the first Alif when adding Al to the word, never heard of this new grammar law
can you please provide any evidences?
thanks
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what you are going on about?
I said almost every name was used with Al and without Al, now you are working hard to make that statement wrong
fine, make it wrong, but in your books not mine
I will simply even more for you
Your reasoning works IF NO OTHER (not ALMOST no other) name of Allah exists without the 'al' attached. For example, Ar-rahmaan is never just rahmaan, as far as I can see.
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Peace "Noprogressive",
What I find quite disturbing is how you associated "God" wiht Quran Aloners and "Allah" with traditionalist. Please don't hijack God and the words we use for them, with differnet sects in the Muslim community.
JK- Im not hijacking anything. I was advising all of those who claim to believe in Quran Alone to use the appropriate word for GOD in the language which they are speaking, thats it.
Obviously you are just disturbed over what non-Muslims are thinking of you if you were to say "Allah". Sorry but I am not about submit to such ignorane and a very irrational fear. Actually I'm quite offended.
JK- You dont need to be offended because this is the truth. Did you every hear English Christians going around calling GOD "elyhim/yahweh"? No you dont. This is the stupidity of the sunni and shia mullahs who think Arabic language is the language of heaven and they are full of national pride.
Seriously get over youself and the "english" language. I'll speak whatever the heck I want, whenever I want.
JK- You can, nobody is stopping you but if people call you terrorist or something then dont blame me. Im just giving an advise, NOT forcing anayone.
Your idea that a 'Quran Aloner' should say God instead of Allah is bullcrap, and really quite racist in my opinion.
salaam
JK- A Quran Aloner should use that term for GOD DEPNEDING ON THE LANGUAGE WHICH IS HE SPEAKING AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME. Like when we speak French wed say "Deiu". In Greek "Hotheus". In German "Gott", in Persian and Urdu "Khoda" , etc. Get it? And if you dont wanna take my advice, forget it and stay a fanatic. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "AB",
Peace bro
there is no such thingh in Arabic bro, to drop the first Alif when adding Al to the word, never heard of this new grammar law
can you please provide any evidences?
thanks
JK- The evidence i can provide you is that the Quran NEVER uses "AL-ilah" despite it's using "ilah" 95 times. Coincidence? GOD Bless!
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Peace "Noprogressive",
As Salaam Alaikum,
Well many Muslims are now using "Muslim" derrogatory too. It just no longer (as if it ever was) just flows from the mouth.. It's not "Muslim" its a "MUSSLLIM"... the "Muslim" is stressed. You think that Pat Robertson is saying "muslim" nicely??? Should we stoop calling ourselves Muslims aswell? And refer to ourselves as some Enlgish translation of it or else?
salaam
JK- Yes exactly, we should call ourselves "submitters" or rather "submitters to GOD Alone" while speaking English. No terms like "Islam" or "Muslim" while speaking English. This is what id call racists by making Arabic into the only Divine language. "islam" and "muslim" are NOT proper nouns or names. The first means "submission" and the other "submitter". GOD Bless!
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what you are going on about?
I said almost every name was used with Al and without Al, now you are working hard to make that statement wrong
fine, make it wrong, but in your books not mine
I will simply even more for you
Your reasoning works IF NO OTHER (not ALMOST no other) name of Allah exists without the 'al' attached. For example, Ar-rahmaan is never just rahmaan, as far as I can see.
it was not a reason body, it was an observation accompanied with the word ALMOST
now what is your observation about dropping the Alif in Allah when the Al was added to it?
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Well many Muslims are now using "Muslim" derrogatory too. It just no longer (as if it ever was) just flows from the mouth.. It's not "Muslim" its a "MUSSLLIM"... the "Muslim" is stressed. You think that Pat Robertson is saying "muslim" nicely??? Should we stoop calling ourselves Muslims aswell? And refer to ourselves as some Enlgish translation of it or else
Sister NP, in my experience (this is the operative phrase), the name 'muslim' has been severly loaded with social, cultural and civilisational baggage. To use it would be to invite troublesome explanations.
Supposing you had a meeting called 'Islamic Study Circle' and you advertised it. If this meeting coincides with a prayer time, the people who attend will expect you to pray or even lead (if you're male). I wouldn't like to have to go through the same debate every single time (and from my experience, this will be the case).
This is why I would prefer 'meeting for social justice' or 'evolution of humankind'. Then you might invite the people with a more correct mindset.
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Salam Brother Jonny
As I told you bro, I never heard of that grammar rule you stated that the Alif should be dropped from Ilah when Al is added to it for the sake of pronounciation, well here is two named for Allah and each is starting with an Alif, both have the Al and both but we observe that the first Alif in the two names were not dropped, the names are "Al Awal & Al Akhir"
(3)
Why is that bro?
peace
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Ahmedit was not a reason body, it was an observation accompanied with the word ALMOST
now what is your observation about dropping the Alif in Allah when the Al was added to it?
For Allah's names like al-awwal and al-aakhir, despite there being an 'al' there, the first alifs were NOT dropped as johny claims its for pronounciation purposes (i.e, it didn't become alwaal and alkhir). Therefore, the word Allah cannot be a contraction of 'al-ilah'. If Allah wanted to say 'al-ilah', He would have said 'al-ilah'.
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Hello Brother Jonney
Sorry mate, I can still find "with ease" some flaws in your concept
Firstly you said that Allah = Al + Ilah
In Arabic, this should be represented as follow
= +
If we add the letters mate, we will see easily that
4 <> 6
I guess you thought that only the first Alif in Ilah will be dropped but it is not the case bro, this is 50% of it only, we have another Alif in Ilah that will be omitted according to this unknown grammar rule of dropping the Alifs when we add ?Al? to the word "Iguess the rule is only for the word Ilah as it does not happen for the other words", as we need now to drop the second Alif which is the third letter from right in Ilah
When we do that using this unknown grammar rule i can buy
4 = 4
Now let?s look at this image from the Quran as per Al Azhar university in Cairo
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/3-62.jpg
The verse means as follow
This is the true account There is no god except Allah; and Allah-He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.?
Firstly we see that the word ?Ilah? has a small 1 on top of the Lam, it is representing the Alif before the ?Ha? I put a red circle on that small 1 to highlight it, this is a method of writing that?s all, you will see also that Allah was repeated twice in the verse, I underlined both, and there is no small 1 on the last Lam before the Ha and only a Fatiha, ie. there is no Alif in there, this is to prove to you that your concept needs to ommit two Alifs in Ilah to make it match Allah after adding the Al
Another important point that can?t be missed is
Your concept suggest that Allah is not a name but a generic definition to God,
Well, if this is the case then the above verse will stand no logic also.
Because you can not say there is no god (Ilah) but God (Allah), this small and capital letters to differentiate is nothing but a joke bro, the verse will make all the sense when we say
?There is no god but Allah?, as Allah is His name, and in this case we have a sensible sentence in our hand, not this weird and foreign rule of dropping two Alifs after adding the Al and say Allah means ?The God? and not the name of our God
Absolutely no sense, sorry mate, I rest my case
Peace be with you
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Jonny_K,
Sorry Jk but now you are just being pathetic. Very pathetic. You know why Christians don't go around saying "Yahweh"? Because tehir translations are so frucked up in the first place.
If you want to keep your conversation exclusively English when you are speaking in English, great! But If I want to say "Allah" or 'Muslim", I'm going to say it.
If you are afraid that people are going to go about and call you a terrosit becuase you say a word in arabic, you have your own personal issues to figure out. Obviously you don't feel good about yourself in the non-Muslims world.
Let's go tell all of the Mexicans to stop speaking English in the USA so they wont be looked at as illegals who refuse to assimilate. D
I swear I hate your mentality. Now if someone speaks the language the Quran was revealed in, they are "fanatics" according to you.
You know what is fanatic? What's fanatic is telling people what they can and cannot speak.
I say "Allah" whenever I like, I don't say that I must or that it's better.. I just say it.
Along with that JK you are asking people to do something that can translate into something dangerous. The reason is becuase that a TRANSLATION is NOTHING COMPARED to an Arabic Quran.
So if people start going around speaking english or whatever, do this continuely--- and believing that it's perfectly ok and that it's all the same thing--- they will evnetually be wrong.
Along with that JK what should we do with foreign names not native to a language?
Should I start calling my cousin "Beautiful" and not Jameelah? Should I call a friend "Light" and not Noor? Should I call a hot Jewish man on TV "My People" instead of "Ami" (whatever his name is, lol). HUH??? Let's keep purly English ok?
salaam
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Peace bro "AB"
When we do that using this unknown grammar rule i can buy
4 = 4
Now let?s look at this image from the Quran as per Al Azhar university in Cairo
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/3-62.jpg
The verse means as follow
This is the true account There is no god except Allah; and Allah-He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.?
Firstly we see that the word ?Ilah? has a small 1 on top of the Lam, it is representing the Alif before the ?Ha? I put a red circle on that small 1 to highlight it, this is a method of writing that?s all, you will see also that Allah was repeated twice in the verse, I underlined both, and there is no small 1 on the last Lam before the Ha and only a Fatiha, ie. there is no Alif in there, this is to prove to you that your concept needs to ommit two Alifs in Ilah to make it match Allah after adding the Al
JK- Sorry bro but in the case of 'ilah' that doesnt have two syllables but one so there is continuity of one alif into another which would not be the case with "al-ilah".
Another important point that can?t be missed is
Your concept suggest that Allah is not a name but a generic definition to God,
Well, if this is the case then the above verse will stand no logic also.
Because you can not say there is no god (Ilah) but God (Allah), this small and capital letters to differentiate is nothing but a joke bro, the verse will make all the sense when we say
?There is no god but Allah?, as Allah is His name, and in this case we have a sensible sentence in our hand, not this weird and foreign rule of dropping two Alifs after adding the Al and say Allah means ?The God? and not the name of our God
Absolutely no sense, sorry mate, I rest my case
Peace be with you
JK- Oh but the phrase "There is no god but GOD" or "There is no god but The god" makes perfect sense and i put it their in my avator too. As i said before Greek makes this distinction too. Writing an English-Greek mixed phrase would gie this as "There is no TONtheos but HOtheos". Simple and very logical. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "AB",
Salam Brother Jonny
As I told you bro, I never heard of that grammar rule you stated that the Alif should be dropped from Ilah when Al is added to it for the sake of pronounciation, well here is two named for Allah and each is starting with an Alif, both have the Al and both but we observe that the first Alif in the two names were not dropped, the names are "Al Awal & Al Akhir"
(3)
Why is that bro?
peace
JK- You brought up a good point with "al-awwal" but then again try pronoucing "al-awwal" compared to "al-ilah". The latter seems more difficult. Maybe this is the effect of the "double laam" as then we would have a double "al-il" and this is what makes it odd. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro Jonny
Please answer this question
the Arabic word "Ilah" has one Alif or two Alifs?
Cheers
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Peace bro "AB",
Salam Brother Jonny
As I told you bro, I never heard of that grammar rule you stated that the Alif should be dropped from Ilah when Al is added to it for the sake of pronounciation, well here is two named for Allah and each is starting with an Alif, both have the Al and both but we observe that the first Alif in the two names were not dropped, the names are "Al Awal & Al Akhir"
(3)
Why is that bro?
peace
JK- You brought up a good point with "al-awwal" but then again try pronoucing "al-awwal" compared to "al-ilah". The latter seems more difficult. Maybe this is the effect of the "double laam" as then we would have a double "al-il" and this is what makes it odd. GOD Bless!
Peace bro
the arabic letter "Kh" is the most heavy to pronounce in arabic , and it is in Al Akhir, therefore, if dropping letters is to ease pronounciation as you claim then IT MUST BE DROPPED WITH Al Akhir to become "Alkhir"
and sure Alkhir is easier to pronounce than Al Akhir
peace mate
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Salam "NP",
Sorry Jk but now you are just being pathetic. Very pathetic. You know why Christians don't go around saying "Yahweh"? Because their translations are so frucked up in the first place.
JK- I hope your didnt mean that four lettered F word. If yes im wondering are you really a girl from a sunni background? And it's not about their trnalations in this case. This is infact one +ve aspect of them. Before they were using yahweh until Martin Luther realized what a blunder this was who thjen trnalsted it as "Lord".
If you want to keep your conversation exclusively English when you are speaking in English, great! But If I want to say "Allah" or 'Muslim", I'm going to say it.
JK- As i said before, NO PROBLEM. Thats your choice but i kindly ADVISE you to not do that.
If you are afraid that people are going to go about and call you a terrosit becuase you say a word in arabic, you have your own personal issues to figure out. Obviously you don't feel good about yourself in the non-Muslims world.
JK- I do feel good but i also want people to understand and not just run away because i insist on using Arabic terms many have no idea of except associating it with terrorism.
Let's go tell all of the Mexicans to stop speaking English in the USA so they wont be looked at as illegals who refuse to assimilate.
JK- As i said mixing languages is not good especially when crucial terms are considered.
I swear I hate your mentality. Now if someone speaks the language the Quran was revealed in, they are "fanatics" according to you.
JK- NO not at all. Im talking about insisting on ARabic terms when talking in English. Seems like you didnt understand me.
You know what is fanatic? What's fanatic is telling people what they can and cannot speak.
JK- HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THIS WAS ONLY AN ADVISE?
I say "Allah" whenever I like, I don't say that I must or that it's better.. I just say it.
JK- I was just advising you to not use it in English thats all. If you wanna keep using it.
Along with that JK you are asking people to do something that can translate into something dangerous. The reason is becuase that a TRANSLATION is NOTHING COMPARED to an Arabic Quran.
JK- It's NOT the individual words of the Quran that are speciasl, no, no, no. It's the overall style the Quran uses. Once the people learn about your concept of GOD then you may as well explain the Quran and it's style to them.
So if people start going around speaking english or whatever, do this continuely--- and believing that it's perfectly ok and that it's all the same thing--- they will evnetually be wrong.
Along with that JK what should we do with foreign names not native to a language?
JK- First of all "Allah" is NOT a personal name since GOD can have no personal name, it makes no sense. 2ndly in my case you would have seen that i adjust my name according to culture. In Pakistan, Persia, etc i may be cammed "Khizar". For the western countries im "Jonny K.".
Should I start calling my cousin "Beautiful" and not Jameelah? Should I call a friend "Light" and not Noor? Should I call a hot Jewish man on TV "My People" instead of "Ami" (whatever his name is, lol). HUH??? Let's keep purly English ok?
salaam
JK- No but you should give her a suitable feminine name which exists in that society which those people can easily pronounce like "Sarah" or "Cindy" for example. That is my oopinion. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro Jonny
Can you please provide any evidences that a god can't have a personal name
also bro, did RK consider the two Alifs in every instance of Ilah word when he counted the Alifs?
peace
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