SPERM DONATION and Islam?
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why did the prophet had more then one wife if polygamy is not allowed?"
Okay, the polygamy issue in a nutshell; (from a QURAN ONLY perspective)"IF you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four..." 43
"IF you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one..." 43
! BUT !
"You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try..." 4129
Paraphrased;
"You can't be fair, no matter what. If you can't be fair, then you can only have one wife. If orphans are in need, then you may make an exception - (despite the unfairness)."So it is clear, that for all intents and purposes polygamy is not allowed. Of course, God is seer of everything, and knower of the innermost thoughts. He will be fully aware of any scheming by males to secure more than one wife for the purposes of personal pleasure, or otherwise.
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peace joe,
you wroteI do not think infertility is necessarily a problem, but rather a means of checking population overgrowth. This is why adoption is to be opted for. Otherwise different means will come into play, famine, pestilence, war, etc to check the population.
It?s a very odd means of checking population over growth? When one person is deprived of passing down his genes while several others are free to pass them as many times as they wish, then that?s not fair brother. However I agree with you that population overgrowth can cause serious harms if not checked, there has to be a fair balance in population and resources other wise different means which you have mentioned, will definitely come into play. China has a population of about I billion but life there is much better then many small African countries where the balance between their population and their resources has not been properly kept.
peace.
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peace naz,
you wroteagentxxx wrote
why did the prophet had more then one wife if polygamy is not allowed?"
Okay, the polygamy issue in a nutshell; (from a QURAN ONLY perspective)"IF you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four..." 43
"IF you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one..." 43
"You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try..." 4129
You have quoted the translation by dr-rashid khalifa, this is how hillali translated these verses and notic the difference.
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And IF YOU FEAR THAT YOU SHALL NOT BE ABLE TO DEAL JUSTLY WITH THE ORPHANGIRLS, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four BUT IF YOU FEAR THAT YOU SHALL NOT BE ABLE TO DEAL JUSTLY (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.
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YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO PERFECT JUSTICE BETWEEN WIVES even if it is your ardent desire, so DO NOT INCLINE TOO MUCH TO ONE OF THEM (by giving her more of your time and provision) SO AS TO LEAVE THE OTHER HANGING (i.e. neither divorced nor married)?.
naz
Paraphrased;
"You can't be fair, no matter what. If you can't be fair, then you can only have one wife. If orphans are in need, then you may make an exception - (despite the unfairness)."So it is clear, that for all intents and purposes polygamy is not allowed.
you did not answered why the prophet had more then one wife?
its quite clear from these verses that polgamy is allowed with certain conditions.peace.
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Peace
It?s a very odd means of checking population over growth?
I do not think so. It is but a means. Not the be all end all.
When one person is deprived of passing down his genes while several others are free to pass them as many times as they wish, then that?s not fair brother.
I disagree. One can have 10 children who are all evil. The true family of the believer is a fellow believer. Read the hadeeth of Noah.
One is told to feed, clothe, care for, and be fair with the orphan. This is the next best thing if infertility is one's lot. I feel it is pointless to bring more children into the world, especially based on modern means, when there are many others already in it who could use a home and good guardians.
Joe
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Peace brother joe,
agentxxx wrote
When one person is deprived of passing down his genes while several others are free to pass them as many times as they wish, then that?s not fair brother.the nabi-I disagree. One can have 10 children who are all evil.
So does that mean one should let go the desire of having children assuming they might turn evil?
The trend of having ten children is the thing of the past; I think two or maximum three children are enough today. With few kids there are less chances of them turning evil .thenabi-The true family of the believer is a fellow believer. Read the hadeeth of Noah.
Theoretically yes but practically??
336-..... BLOOD-RELATIONS AMONG EACH OTHER HAVE CLOSER PERSONAL TIES IN THE DECREE OF ALLAH THAN (THE BROTHERHOOD OF) BELIEVERS AND MUHAJIRS.. ..
thenabi-One is told to feed, clothe, care for, and be fair with the orphan. This is the next best thing if infertility is one's lot.
I agree, it is indeed a good thing, but where and if any treatment is available for infertility then it should be the right of the couple to decide. Your can have your own kids and still take care or support the orphans.
thenabi- I feel it is pointless to bring more children into the world, especially based on modern means, when there are many others already in it who could use a home and good guardians.
Nice thought brother, but people don?t normally marry with the intention of adopting and providing shelter for homeless kids, they want to eventually have their own kids however it is always good to support and help underprivileged children.
Peace.
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Peace all,
In islamic countries if a wife is infertile the husband is allowed to have a second wife. Now If the husband is infertile SHOULD THE WIFE BE ALLOWED TO ATLEAST AVAIL SUCH FACILITY since she she is not allowed to have two husbands?
Peace mate
the answer is no, but she can easily and successfully seek divorce under islam laws
quran says that the child should be named after his/her biological father so can the couple maintain secrecy in such cases?
no bro, I don't think that it is allowed for males to donate sperms, logically speaking
Can a widow who doesn?t want to remarry use this technology?
i don't think so bro, why she does not want to marry and have a child at the same time?, this must be a confused act of impulstivity
Since there is no nikah between the donar and the recipient what is the status of the child?
I don't think donating sperm is allowed bro, because simply Allah is telling us that He is the one who gives us the children and He is the one who takes it from us, therefore if a woman wants to be pregnant and Allah wants not, then it will never happen whatever she does even if she insered all the sperm in the world in her
DOES QURAN SAY ANYTHING ON SUCH ISSUE?
Please comment.
Peace.
The Quran says that Allah is in charge of giveing us children and taking it from us, this is good enough for me to even accept and submit to His will that He took it off me, all I can do is ask Him to give me a child through the legal way He outlined in the Quran which is to marry a woman
cheers
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Peace
So does that mean one should let go the desire of having children assuming they might turn evil?
Not at all.
Theoretically yes but practically??
Yes. The reading is not a mere theoretical treatise.
The family is to be cared for foremost according to God's decree.
but where and if any treatment is available for infertility then it should be the right of the couple to decide.
That right is to always be theirs.
people don?t normally marry with the intention of adopting
My context was an infertile couple. They may want kids but they are infertile. I'm of the opinion that adoption is the better option.
Joe
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May peace be upon you agentxxx,
"If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four. But if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with them, then only one..." 43 "You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives, even if it is your ardent desire, so do not incline too much to one of them so as to leave the other hanging..." 4129
Dr. M.T.'s translation paints a different picture doesn't it."IF you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four..." 43 "IF you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one..." 43 "You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try..." 4129
Paraphrased; "You can't be fair, no matter what. If you can't be fair, then you can only have one wife. If orphans are in need, then you may make an exception - (despite the unfairness)."
It would seem that my logical paraphrasal only works with Dr. R.K.'s translation. However, the Progressive Muslims' translation paints yet another picture!"And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry off those whom you see fit of the women by two's and three's and four's. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or those who are your dependants. This is best that you do not face poverty." 43
Their translation renders it unrelated to one's own personal marriages, but rather to the "release" of orphan girls into society. No mention of polygamy at all.
So it is clear, that for all intents and purposes polygamy is not allowed.
its quite clear from these verses that polgamy is allowed with certain conditions.Using Dr R.K.'s translation, those "certain conditions" are, for all intents and purposes very unlikely. Other translations do indeed appear to allow polygamy, while another makes no mention of polygamy whatsoever! Mixed bag, eh? ?
you did not answered why the prophet had more then one wife?
Yeah, sorry missed that one. Here we goThere are only several possibilities. (Please match each to their respective translations) lol
arrow Muhammad was "deeming it best" for the Orphans.
arrow Muhammad was 'enjoying' the polygamy laws as revealed.
arrow Muhammed was enjoying polygamy simply because their was not a specific revelation prohibitting it. -
Hello Nazz
As a general rule for polygamy
I will chose option one bro, that is what i believe the Quran is talking about "caring for the orphans"
peace
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Peace joe,
You wroteagentxxx -So does that mean one should let go the desire of having children assuming they might turn evil?
joe-Not at all.ok. )
joe-he true family of the believer is a fellow believer.
agentxxx wroteTheoretically yes but practically??
joe-Yes. The reading is not a mere theoretical treatise.I agree with you that the reading is not a theoretical treatise, but unfortunately the ground reality is different, its like easier said then done. In words/speech we acknowledge that, but our actions do not justify what we say.
joe-The family is to be cared for foremost according to God's decree.
Agreed. )
agentxxx wrote
but where and if any treatment is available for infertility then it should be the right of the couple to decide.
joeThat right is to always be theirs.Agreed. )
agentxxx people don?t normally marry with the intention of adopting
joeMy context was an infertile couple. They may want kids but they are infertile.Please excuse me for misunderstanding.
joeI'm of the opinion that adoption is the better option.
I respect your opinion )
peace.
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peace ahmed,
agentxxxeace all, In islamic countries if a wife is infertile the husband is allowed to have a second wife. Now If the husband is infertile SHOULD THE WIFE BE ALLOWED TO ATLEAST AVAIL SUCH FACILITY since she she is not allowed to have two husbands?
ahmedthe answer is no, but she can easily and successfully seek divorce under islam laws
Brother ahmed What if she doest want a divorce? is then adoption the only option available for the couple?
agentxxx Can a widow who doesn?t want to remarry use this technology?
ahmedi don't think so bro, why she does not want to marry and have a child at the same time?, this must be a confused act of impulstivity
it was just a hypothetical question
agentxxx Since there is no nikah between the donar and the recipient what is the status of the child?
ahmedI don't think donating sperm is allowed bro, because simply Allah is telling us that He is the one who gives us the children and He is the one who takes it from us, therefore if a woman wants to be pregnant and Allah wants not, then it will never happen whatever she does EVEN IF SHE INSERED ALL THE SPERM IN THE WORLD IN HER
Your turn to be hypothetical lol
agentxxx OES QURAN SAY ANYTHING ON SUCH ISSUE? Please comment. Peace.
AhmedThe Quran says that Allah is in charge of giving us children and taking it from us, this is good enough for me to even accept and submit to His will that He took it off me, all I can do is ask Him to give me a child through the legal way He outlined in the Quran which is to marry a woman
Brother masha Allah you have kids and I have kids, so may be it is easy for us to say that, but I have a friend who due to some problem don?t have any, four years after his marriage he adopted his niece, She stayed with them for about two years, then because of the dispute over the distribution of their inherited property, the real parents took her away. It was very hard for the couple, now adoption is out of question for them. the couple is going to the usa for medical check up and advise. I hope and pray for their happiness and success.
Peace.
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peace ahmed,
agentxxxeace all, In islamic countries if a wife is infertile the husband is allowed to have a second wife. Now If the husband is infertile SHOULD THE WIFE BE ALLOWED TO ATLEAST AVAIL SUCH FACILITY since she she is not allowed to have two husbands?
ahmedthe answer is no, but she can easily and successfully seek divorce under islam laws
Brother ahmed What if she doest want a divorce? is then adoption the only option available for the couple?
They can adopt as long as they tell the child from the beginning that they are not his real parents
if she does not want divorce then I guess she has to live with what she chose and just keep asking Allah for it, even if the husband allow it to happen, it is her that she will give account , because by her action she didn't submit to Allah will
agentxxx Can a widow who doesn?t want to remarry use this technology?
ahmedi don't think so bro, why she does not want to marry and have a child at the same time?, this must be a confused act of impulstivity
it was just a hypothetical question )
lol well, it might be possible still, but very very rare, I believe the Quran in 5101-102 has warned the believers from asking questions that are not explained in the Quran, the reason is simply as I see it, we are setting a test, that is why you will always see me avoiding these questions, the Quran told us that these questions can flaw our belief as it did with the people before us
agentxxx Since there is no nikah between the donar and the recipient
what is the status of the child?ahmedI don't think donating sperm is allowed bro, because simply Allah is telling us that He is the one who gives us the children and He is the one who takes it from us, therefore if a woman wants to be pregnant and Allah wants not, then it will never happen whatever she does EVEN IF SHE INSERED ALL THE SPERM IN THE WORLD IN HER
Your turn to be hypothetical lol
lol
agentxxx OES QURAN SAY ANYTHING ON SUCH ISSUE? Please comment. Peace.
AhmedThe Quran says that Allah is in charge of giving us children and taking it from us, this is good enough for me to even accept and submit to His will that He took it off me, all I can do is ask Him to give me a child through the legal way He outlined in the Quran which is to marry a woman
Brother masha Allah you have kids and I have kids, so may be it is easy for us to say that, but I have a friend who due to some problem don?t have any, four years after his marriage he adopted his niece, She stayed with them for about two years, then because of the dispute over the distribution of their inherited property, the real parents took her away. It was very hard for the couple, now adoption is out of question for them. the couple is going to the usa for medical check up and advise. I hope and pray for their happiness and success.
Peace.See what adoption can do.
Also mate I'm talking from other muslims perpective who the doctors in australia told them there is no chance in hell that the wife will fall pregnant, her husnabd decided to marry another one for the sake of having children, she was not happy but she is a true submitter to Allah as I sah her, she is a friend to my wife, and before marriage happened, she fell prgenant and now they have 4 chiildren, see, that is what I'm talking about bro
peace be with you
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Peace be upon you naz,
nazDr. M.T.'s translation paints a different picture doesn't it.
Yes.
nazIt would seem that my logical paraphrasal only works with. However, the Progressive Muslims' translation paints yet another picture!
"And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry off those whom you see fit of the women by two's and three's and four's. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or those who are your dependants. This is best that you do not face poverty." 43
Their translation renders it unrelated to one's own personal marriages, but rather to the "release" of orphan girls into society. No mention of polygamy at all.
The problem I have as far as Dr. R.K.'s translation is concerned, is that most of his translations paint completely a different picture then all the other translations that I have seen before. . all the urdu translations that I have are very similar. The English translations are also compatible with these urdu translations. Now after reading and comparing all these translations since the last couple of years, I come across a translation by dr R.K that is completely different from all the others, it makes me a bit skeptical about R.K. some times I feel that these new translations are an attempt to update quran and make it compatible with the modern time and modern discoveries?
nazUsing Dr R.K.'s translation, those "certain conditions" are, for all intents and purposes very unlikely. Other translations do indeed appear to allow polygamy, while another makes no mention of polygamy whatsoever! Mixed bag, eh?
Try reading older versions of translations you will notice the difference.
agentxxx wrote
you did not answered why the prophet had more then one wife?
nazYeah, sorry missed that one. Here we goThere are only several possibilities. (Please match each to their respective translations)
Muhammad was "deeming it best" for the Orphans.
Muhammad was 'enjoying' the polygamy laws as revealed.
Muhammed was enjoying polygamy simply because their was not a specific revelation prohibiting it.Thanks naz )
peace.
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peace khadija1,
you wroteadoption can be tough these days, though.. it can sometimes be a tedious process, and it's almost as if you are buying the kid.
Absolutely right sis,and in cases similiar to that of my friend, it is very painful for the couple as well as the kid.
Peace.