sex with the captives?
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[quote="shamsul-arefin
hello...Can u answer this question with a simple yes or no D
Is it Ok to have sex with slaves?
Does Islam allow Slavery ?
peace
Salaams and peace ..
Yep, I can answer with "a simple yes or no" and more ..
NO, Islam does NOT allow slavery, but at the same time it does not encourage overnight abolition of slavery in a society where this system has been rife for centuries, for that could carry grave risks of creating lawlessness, insecurity and revenge with people going on a rampage misusing their newly found freedom. Therefore, Islam strongly encourages teaching and educating slaves, and whenever the master/mistress is sure that their slaves are ready to lead independent lives, he or she must set them free by giving them a sum of money to start their lives. Coming from a country where the feudal system is rampant in the rural areas, I certainly prefer the strategy of gradual abolition rather than a revolutionary style eradication.
YES, during the days when slavery was an acceptable norm of the society, sex was considered ok with slaves. Not just sex, but almost anything was thought okay with or for slaves. But with the advent of Islam, the dictates of the Glorious Qur'aan brought about many restrictions & positive amendments regarding a master's behaviour toward his slaves .. one of which was that female slaves cannot be forced to have sex if they prefer to preserve their virginity. And of course, not having slaves at all by freeing them whenever possible is nearest to piety as per the values of the Glorious Qur'aan. Besides, the Qur'aan also mentions the freeing of slaves as a penalty for various wrong deeds. It would help a person to atone for their sins in the days when slavery existed.
And Allah knows best, surely!
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The sad fact is that Mary the Copt was a concubine of Muhammad. The conclusion that 'what must not be cannot be' is as false as the supposition that Islam put an end to slavery.
peace.
Marya was a coptic slave presented to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by the ruler of Egypt, but she did not remain a slave for long. Soon after she was presented to the Prophet, he freed her and married her legally, just the way he was married to Aisha and Hafsah. This is the fact and it is history. If certain people wish to twist it for their own reasons, that's a different matter.
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peace zainab,
you wrote.
agentxxx wrote
The sad fact is that Mary the Copt was a concubine of Muhammad. The conclusion that 'what must not be cannot be' is as false as the supposition that Islam put an end to slavery.
peace.
zainabMarya was a coptic slave presented to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by the ruler of Egypt, but she did not remain a slave for long. Soon after she was presented to the Prophet, he freed her and married her legally, just the way he was married to Aisha and Hafsah. This is the fact and it is history. If certain people wish to twist it for their own reasons, that's a different matter.
sis i didnt write it, i just copied and pasted it here
There are so many different version available regarding marya that it is difficult to paint a clear picture. this information is from the link provided by brother shamsul-arefin.Ibn Katheer said
Taking a concubine as well as a wife is permissible according to the law of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him). Ibraaheem did that with Haajar, when he took her as a concubine when he was married to Saarah.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/383
And Ibn Katheer also said
The phrase ?and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses ? whom Allaah has given to you? means, it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty. He took possession of Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them; he took possession of Rayhaanah bint Sham?oon al-Nadariyyah and Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, the mother of his son Ibraaheem (peace be upon them both), and they were among his concubines, may Allaah be pleased with them both.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/500
The scholars are unanimously agreed that it is permissible.
Ibn Qudaamah said
There is no dispute (among the scholars) that it is permissible to take concubines and to have intercourse with one's slave woman, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning)
?And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts from illegal sexual acts).
Except from their wives or the (women slaves) whom their right hands possess for (then) they are not blameworthy.?
Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah was the umm walad (a slave woman who bore her master a child) of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and she was the mother of Ibraaheem, the son of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), of whom he said, ?Her son set her free.? Haajar, the mother of Isma?eel (peace be upon him), was the concubine of Ibraaheem the close friend (khaleel) of the Most Merciful (peace be upon him). ?Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) had a number of slave women who bore him children, to each of whom he left four hundred in his will. ?Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) had slave women who bore him children, as did many of the Sahaabah. ?Ali ibn al-Husayn, al-Qaasim ibn Muhammad and Saalim ibn ?Abd-Allaah were all born from slave mothers
Al-Mughni, 10/441
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)A slave woman with whom a man has intercourse is known as a sariyyah (concubine) from the word sirr, which means marriage.
This is indicated by the Qur?aan and Sunnah, and this was done by the Prophets. Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) took Haajar as a concubine and she bore him Ismaa?eel (may peace be upon them all).
Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also did that, as did the Sahaabah, the righteous and the scholars. The scholars are unanimously agreed on that and it is not permissible for anyone to regard it as haraam or to forbid it. Whoever regards that as haraam is a sinner who is going against the consensus of the scholars.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.comsis, i think i must show this one to my wife lol
The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them. Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com
peace.
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peace zainab,
sis i didnt write it, i just copied and pasted it here
There are so many different version available regarding marya that it is difficult to paint a clear picture. this information is from the link provided by brother shamsul-arefin.Okay agent ..
Actually it is just a very simple and straightforward episode, exactly as I mentioned. There's no need to get confused.People keep painting different pictures of everything and in every era. Such gossip is inherent of human nature. But that cannot change the truth nor prevent it from standing out. We just need to be a little perceptive as we go about seeking truth and make sure we acquire it from the proper sources.
Needless to say, this information provided by br. shams-ul-arefin is total nonsense.
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thanks all for the answer....
If Quran allowed sex with slaves than its also allowing slavery.....this doesnt sound right to me. A nice excuse to have so many sexual partners...........I dont understand why muslims accuse ppl if they have gf/bf or sex before marriage between couples.
Why dont we just get straight..!!! sex is ok between two person who are willing to share their body with each other thru understanding. Forget abt all these institutional marriage. where is the harm here?
peace
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thanks all for the answer....
If Quran allowed sex with slaves than its also allowing slavery.....this doesnt sound right to me. A nice excuse to have so many sexual partners...........I dont understand why muslims accuse ppl if they have gf/bf or sex before marriage between couples.
Why dont we just get straight..!!! sex is ok between two person who are willing to share their body with each other thru understanding. Forget abt all these institutional marriage. where is the harm here?
peace
What a 'grand' misinterpretation by a mind doused in ignorance!
" ... Unto us our works and unto you your works. Peace be unto you! We desire not the ignorant." (2855)
Thanks for your comments.
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thanks all for the answer....
If Quran allowed sex with slaves than its also allowing slavery.....this doesnt sound right to me. A nice excuse to have so many sexual partners...........I dont understand why muslims accuse ppl if they have gf/bf or sex before marriage between couples.
Why dont we just get straight..!!! sex is ok between two person who are willing to share their body with each other thru understanding. Forget abt all these institutional marriage. where is the harm here?
peace
What a 'grand' misinterpretation by a mind doused in ignorance!
" ... Unto us our works and unto you your works. Peace be unto you! We desire not the ignorant." (2855)
Thanks for your comments.
plss... experiment that on urself..........to be straight forward...I see lot of beating around the bush here.
peace
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peace zainab,
sis, i think i must show this one to my wife lol
The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them. Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com
peace.
Salaam Alaikum and peace ..
Hey brother! By all means you can show it to your wife. If she possesses even with an iota of common sense, she won't be pushed. Please read my post on this thread dated Feb.5. This law is not valid any longer. It was valid only as long as slavery was an accepted universal system. Unfortunately for men, slavery has now officially been abolished from 'planet earth.' So, your new choices are .. you either have a free woman as your mistress or stay with your wife. If you're brave, try telling her this instead of an obsolete law no longer in practice, can you? Not to worry .. I'll nurse you if you end up with any broken bones lol
Moreover, lets not forget, even when this culture was practiced, it wasn't introduced by Islam. It existed hundreds (if not thousands) of years prior to Islam. But Islam implemented several laws & responsibilities on slave owners for the protection of slaves, female slaves in particular.
JazekAllah Khair ..
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Salaam All!
First let me say I understand that slavery doesnt exist(not legally)any longer..My question is does Captives only refer to slaves?Because at times of war,armies and soldiers take captives,but they are not slaves?So if the captive is willing for some reason to have sex with their captor, is it legal to have sex with them..becauseIlla AAala azwajihim awma malakat aymanuhum fa-innahum ghayru maloomeena
Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,
And
Illa AAala azwajihim awma malakat aymanuhum fa-innahum ghayru maloomeenaExcept with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
seem to imply that one can have sex with Captives of war(not only slaves)?
Does the Arabic word mean slave or captive or both? -
Peace hamza
just a few more links that might enlighten you about the meaning of ma malakat aymakoum
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/malakat.htm
and
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/malak.htm
lk
Salaam Elke!
Thank you,FOR the links they helped out perfectly...
May Allah Bless you! -
peace zainab,
you wroteHey brother! By all means you can show it to your wife. If she possesses even with an iota of common sense, she won't be pushed. Please read my post on this thread dated Feb.5.
Her common sense is not a problem, but her anger is. Ok I will read it.
zainabThis law is not valid any longer.
It was valid only as long as slavery was an accepted universal system.I 100% agree with you, I believe we have to keep it in mind that those who are being addresses in 235 and 7024 lived 1400 years ago, in a different age/location with their own set of rules based on their own culture. I think instead of completely denying the fact we should say that this laws is obsolete so its GONE WITH THE WIND.
zainabUnfortunately for men, slavery has now officially been abolished from 'planet earth.'
Yea unfortunately for some.. ?however the likes of taliban still believe it is permitted.
zainabSo, your new choices are.. You either have a free woman as your mistress or stay with your wife.
The problem with taking a free woman for a mistress is, that THEY HAVE FREE MEN TO GUARD THEM so to be on the safer side, it is better to stay with the wife unless... roll
zainabIf you're brave, try telling her this instead of an obsolete law no longer in practice, can you?
I am not sure how brave I can be, but surely I cant be that stupid lol .
zainab Not to worry .. I'll nurse you if you end up with any broken bones
well thank you sister for caring, but I sincerely believe PREVENTION IS BETTER THEN CURE wink .
zainabMoreover, lets not forget, even when this culture was practiced, it wasn't introduced by Islam. It existed hundreds (if not thousands) of years prior to Islam. But Islam implemented several laws & responsibilities on slave owners for the protection of slaves, female slaves in particular.
Sis I agree with all that you have said, for me the worst thing to do is to take undue advantage of one?s position/power. We always had and still have housemaids, we were brought up with this constant feeding from my parents that we have to respect them and protect them from any harm, when we were kids we sometime would misbehaved with them and my father would tell us that we all should be thankful to Allah because he could have switched positions and made them our bosses. He would say treat them as you would have wanted them to treat you if you were in their position. By the grace of God I have never ever mistreated/misused them and insha Allah never will.
Peace.
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Salaam All!
First let me say I understand that slavery doesnt exist(not legally)any longer..My question is does Captives only refer to slaves?Because at times of war,armies and soldiers take captives,but they are not slaves?Walaikum Salaam Hamza ..
In the middle ages and earlier when slavery was a common social culture almost everywhere in the world, captives (both men and women) taken by victorious soldiers were the same as slaves.But nowadays since the social culture has changed and slavery has been abolished, therefore army captives are referred to as prisoners of war. And civilian captives are simply referred to as "suspects" or "collaborators" as we've seen so much of it in Iraq. However, apparently human habits die hard. The number of male and female captives in Iraq who have been sexually assaulted in prisons and elsewhere by American troops is astonishing. And worst of all, because of the primitive and ignorant culture of the society, females who have been physically violated are today not allowed to speak up by their families for the purpose of "preserving family honour." Needless to mention, this primitive 'protocol' suits the American occupiers perfectly well .. and as a result, these 21st century "champions of freedom" violate their captives as much as they like.
The passage of time changes the facade but not the human temperament .. so lets not consider ourselves lucky by thinking that we are living in a better world.
Not to mention the dark and sordid culture of modern sex trade & trafficking particularly widespread in countries like western & eastern Europe, Ukraine, North America, Latin America and South-east Asia. To say the least, women duped and trapped into these organizations by their owners and pimps are treated far worse than the slaves of the middle ages.
JazekAllah Khair ..
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well the bottom line is ...sex is allowed with slave. Thats what all these discussions are summarizing..............giving all these reason of time, culture and whatever are just an excuses to make it sound ok!!..lol
when the traditional muslims do it ..its all legal and tons of reasons are given to justify it...but when so called infidels do it...Its immoral, its shameless, lowering women dignity and what not titles are given..!!... I am just sick of it........Its all hypocrisy.
Peace
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peace shamsul-arefin,
you wrotewell the bottom line is ...sex is allowed with slave. Thats what all these discussions are summarizing..............
this is what i have understood...The taliban were practicing this during their war with the northern alliance before they were overthrown.
sagiving all these reason of time, culture and whatever are just an excuses to make it sound ok!!..lol
Is there any other option brother. I absolutely don?t support having sex with the captives, and I will not try to justify that, no woman can willingly have sex with someone responsible of killing/destroying her family/tribe. However it is my humble opinion that in order to understand the message conveyed through these verses, we have to understand the situation/background and also to whom they are addressed, we also have to keep in mind the time/period. For example
4232?And of His portents are the ships, like banners on the sea;
4233?If He will HE CALMETH THE WIND SO THAT THEY KEEP STILL UPON ITS SURFACE .Today we cannot present such notion as a convincing evidence of Allah?s power even to the kids, because every one knows that the ships of today do not need winds to set them in motion. But At that time when this verse was revealed such evidence was logical.
3134?Lo! Allah! With Him is knowledge of the Hour. He sendeth down the rain, and KNOWETH THAT WHICH IS IN THE WOMBS.
No big deal today, because everyone can find out through ultrasound about that which is in the womb.
2227?And proclaim unto mankind the Pilgrimage. THEY WILL COME UNTO THEE on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every deep ravine.
Today people go there in planes, cars and busses etc so we have to see verses like these keeping in mind the period in which they were revealed.
Coming back to the issue of captives, again this is my humble understanding that it was impossible to abolish all the evils of that time instantaneously; slavery and captives were a part of that culture and although the islam/quran did not put an end to it, but certainly it made thing a lot better for them .
sawhen the traditional muslims do it ..its all legal and tons of reasons are given to justify it...but when so called infidels do it...Its immoral, its shameless, lowering women dignity and what not titles are given..!!... I am just sick of it........Its all hypocrisy.
I think it is a matter of belief, the hadith supporters present tons of reasons to justify them, I agree with you over the double standards like when we kiss our black stone it is right, but when hindus kiss their stone it is wrong.....our aab-a zumzum is right, but their ganga jal is wrong. All other scared books have been changed, but even with many incompatible translations our sacred book.... ?
Peace
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peace sawtooth,
you wroteOK so the Koran IS dated and therefore subject to interpretation besed on time technology and society.
95-But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.
should we slay the pagans after the passing of the forbidden months ?
913-Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths plotted to expel the apostle and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay it is Allah whom ye should more justly fear if ye believe!
can we find any of those today who plotted to expel the prophet?
peace.
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Salaams all,
especially who think one may have sex with captives-i think not.
CONCLUSION
The confusion is you think zawwaj as married and Ma malakat aimanokum Not married-I think.
BUT A ZAWWAJ CAN BE WIFE AND NOT A WIFE ,MARRIED OR NOT MARRIED, SO CAN MA-MALAKAT AIMANOKUM.Zawwaj doing nikkah look to the Arabic.
Fa-in tallaqaha falatahillu lahu min baAAdu hatta tankihazawjan ghayrahu fa-in tallaqaha fala junahaAAalayhima an yatarajaAAa in thannaan yuqeema hudooda Allahi watilka hudooduAllahi yubayyinuha liqawmin yaAAlamoona
So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand.
Divorced women = zawwaj(mate) , and they can also marry .
5.Wa-itha tallaqtumu alnnisaafabalaghna ajalahunna fala taAAduloohunna an yankihnaazwajahunna itha taradaw baynahum bialmaAAroofithalika yooAAathu bihi man kanaminkum yu/minu biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhirithalikum azka lakum waatharu waAllahuyaAAlamu waantum la taAAlamoona
When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), do not prevent them from marrying their
husbands, if they mutually agree on equitable terms. This instruction is for all amongst you, who believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is (the course Making for) most virtue and purity amongst you and Allah knows, and ye know not.Widows = zawwaj (mate), they can marry as they aren?t wives.
6.Waallatheena yutawaffawnaminkum wayatharoona azwajan yatarabbasnabi-anfusihinna arbaAAata ashhurin waAAashran fa-ithabalaghna ajalahunna fala junaha AAalaykum feemafaAAalna fee anfusihinna bialmaAAroofi waAllahubima taAAmaloona khabeerun
If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye do.
Widows = zawwaj (mate), so they can marry as they are no longer classed as wives.
7.Waallatheena yutawaffawnaminkum wayatharoona azwajan wasiyyatanli-azwajihim mataAAan ila alhawlighayra ikhrajin fa-in kharajna fala junahaAAalaykum fee ma faAAalna fee anfusihinna min maAAroofinwaAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
Those of you who die and leave widows should bequeath for their widows a year's maintenance and residence; but if they leave (The residence), there is no blame on you for what they do with themselves, provided it is reasonable. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
Allah makes mates not wives! And mates marry you not wives.
9.Ya ayyuha alnnasuittaqoo rabbakumu allathee khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatinwakhalaqa minha zawjaha wabaththa minhumarijalan katheeran wanisaan waittaqoo Allahaallathee tasaaloona bihi waal-arhamainna Allaha kana AAalaykum raqeeban
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.
He makes mates not wives! And mates marry you and not wives.
16.Huwa allathee khalaqakum min nafsinwahidatin wajaAAala minha zawjaha liyaskunailayha falamma taghashshaha hamalathamlan khafeefan famarrat bihi falamma athqalatdaAAawa Allaha rabbahuma la-in ataytanasalihan lanakoonanna mina alshshakireena
It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying) "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful."
Allah has made mates of like nature and not wives of like nature?
Allah makes mates but we make them into wives as a formality.So if you say zawwaj = mates , in the same ayah so does Ma Malakat Aimanokum.
WaAllahu jaAAala lakum minanfusikum azwajan wajaAAala lakum min azwajikumbaneena wahafadatan warazaqakum mina alttayyibatiafabialbatili yu/minoona wabiniAAmati Allahihum yakfuroona
And Allah has made for you mates (and companions) of your own nature, and made for you, out of them, sons and daughters and grandchildren, and provided for you sustenance of the best will they then believe in vain things, and be ungrateful for Allah's favours?-
023.005
Who abstain from sex,
023.006
Except with their mates, or whom their right hands possess,- for then they are free from blame.
24.Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wasalaka lakum feeha subulan waanzala mina alssama-imaan faakhrajna bihi azwajan min nabatinshatta
"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
Pairs of plants and that is how zawwaj is meant and not as wives.
CONCLUSION
SO AS A ZAWWAJ CAN BE WIFE AND NOT A WIFE , SO CAN MA-MALAKAT AIMANOKUM.I hope you have understood ,if not i will explain again if you like.
God Bless.
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well the bottom line is ...sex is allowed with slave. Thats what all these discussions are summarizing..............giving all these reason of time, culture and whatever are just an excuses to make it sound ok!!..lol
when the traditional muslims do it ..its all legal and tons of reasons are given to justify it...but when so called infidels do it...Its immoral, its shameless, lowering women dignity and what not titles are given..!!... I am just sick of it........Its all hypocrisy.
Peace
It's all about culture & society, it has nothing to do with religion. Therefore yes .. it's time related, not race related, and that's what makes all the difference. Hence if someone does such a thing today (regardless of their race or religion) it will be considered immoral. But if someone did it in the yester years, it would be quite acceptable and in accordance with the social & legal requirements. Such change of laws concerning almost all aspects of human life & habits have been an ongoing process ever since history started being recorded.
Thirty years ago, it was okay to smoke a cigarette in all public places in Canada. Today if you smoke anywhere other than your home, your car or the sidewalks, you could be fined a minimal of $250 or more.
It's all a very, very simple issue. I'm sorry it's proving so difficult for you to grasp. Peace ..
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OK.. slavery AND sex with anyone who does NOT agree to it are both perversions against humanity. Dating the practice is just a cop out. Whether by date or society, there is not justification for this. It's mind boggling. If there IS a Satan, devil Lucifer hell or whatever, both of these acts MUST be the direct result of such a place/being. I cannot believe someone would argue that a god would decree it OK to do either.