The Blind Watch-Watchers or Smell the Cheese
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Salam LT,
But if you examine the fossil record you will find that amoeba type creatures came first. There were no complex lifeforms at this stage. How do you account for that?We can't through the fossil record say amoeba type creatures came first.
Yes we can! - this is what is revealed in the fossil record.
Say for instance E.coli, has been around as long as the amoeba, it has never changed and will not change.
So has the coelacanth fish from the time of the dinosaurs. But coelacanth itself is not found with amoeboas has it...how do you account for that?
Regards,
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Taosophy can answer this easily...
Who created God - defeats your argument doesn't it?
It lead to another question Who destroyed God.. or Who can destroy God.
How can you define 'Creation' when there's no 'Destruction'...?
How can you ask who created God when God itself cannot be destroyed?
How can you define 'Good' when there's no 'Evil'.?
Total amount mass (and hence the energy) in the Universe must be zero.
Please define 'nothingness'... There's 'nothingess' in 'everything', and 'there's everything' in 'nothingness'.
Because God created everything out of nothingness wink
And 'everything' (creation) will be destroyed back to 'nothingness'...
Thus mixing the above concept with the 'Semitic/Abrahamic belief of The One and Living God' and also 'Starwarism' results in
May The Force be with you, yet actually The Force will always be with you. Because The Force is inside you and outside of you. He is "He Who Is" (Hebrew Yahweh / Yahuwah).
Salam
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Peace "LT",
Total amount mass (and hence the energy) in the Universe must be zero. Because God created everything out of nothingness wink
Regards,
JK- The Quran doesnt say that. Some people misinterpret this verse
He said, "Thus said your Lord `It is easy for Me to do. I created you before that, and you were nothing.' "
This only shows that we did not exist before GOD cerated thus. It does NOT by any means say that GOD created us out of nothing. Infact i believe GOD cerated everything including us out of His Light. GOD Bless! -
Salam LT,
But if you examine the fossil record you will find that amoeba type creatures came first. There were no complex lifeforms at this stage. How do you account for that?We can't through the fossil record say amoeba type creatures came first.
Yes we can! - this is what is revealed in the fossil record.
How?
Say for instance E.coli, has been around as long as the amoeba, it has never changed and will not change.
So has the coelacanth fish from the time of the dinosaurs. But coelacanth itself is not found with amoeboas has it...how do you account for that?
Where is the evidence for that?
Regards,
Anyway using our most advance understanding of science evolution do not occur. If its has to occur than it has to overcome 2 important obsticles 1, the alteration of the genomic DNA and 2, the passing on of the genetic information.
Peace
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Peace Jafar,
May The Force be with you, yet actually The Force will always be with you. Because The Force is inside you and outside of you. He is "He Who Is" (Hebrew Yahweh / Yahuwah).
If this is the case, then what is the point of saying "May the Force be with you"?!
Anwar Azim
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Taosophy can answer this easily...
Who created God - defeats your argument doesn't it?
It lead to another question Who destroyed God.. or Who can destroy God.
You can't answer one question with another. That's why Occam invented his famour Razor wink
How can you ask who created God when God itself cannot be destroyed?
How do you know this?
But you don't really know for sure do you?
You are only saying this because it makes you feel good -)How can you define 'Good' when there's no 'Evil'.?
You don't need to.
Please define 'nothingness'...
Nothingness has no attribute.
There's 'nothingess' in 'everything',
This "nothingness" you are talking about is not nothingness. That is just empty space. And space is not nothingness.
and 'there's everything' in 'nothingness'.
But nothing has no attributes - so how is everything in nothingness?
Logically impossible isn't it? But you are not talking in logical terms are you? winkThus mixing the above concept with the 'Semitic/Abrahamic belief of The One and Living God' and also 'Starwarism' results in
Erm...you will find George Lucas actually took the semitic notion of God and stripped it of all the anthropomorphic elements from it and made it into the FORCE wink
Regards,
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JK- The Quran doesnt say that. Some people misinterpret this verse
He said, "Thus said your Lord `It is easy for Me to do. I created you before that, and you were nothing.' "
This only shows that we did not exist before GOD cerated thus. It does NOT by any means say that GOD created us out of nothing. Infact i believe GOD cerated everything including us out of His Light. GOD Bless!This is a pagan belief Johnny -) Pagans believed that we are made of the same divine stuff and therefore we are essentially divine in nature. The Greek Philosopher Plato also held that belief. It is only in the Abrahamic religions that we find that mankind is made of dust and creates a vast divide between God and man!
So Johnny you are a quite a Pagan in your beliefs chap wink
Regards,
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We can't through the fossil record say amoeba type creatures came first.
Yes we can! - this is what is revealed in the fossil record.
How?
Erm...quite simple really. The oldest rock only shows simple creatures and it does not show coelacanth.
How do you account for this?
Say for instance E.coli, has been around as long as the amoeba, it has never changed and will not change.
So has the coelacanth fish from the time of the dinosaurs. But coelacanth itself is not found with amoeboas has it...how do you account for that?
Where is the evidence for that?
Well Dr. bmbmm there is a good TV program where they show live coelacanth and also coelacanth in fossil record dating from the time of dinosaurs - look it up in your local museum or library wink
Anyway using our most advance understanding of science evolution do not occur. If its has to occur than it has to overcome 2 important obsticles 1, the alteration of the genomic DNA and 2, the passing on of the genetic information.
How do account for the fossil record Dr bmbmm Phd? -)
Regards,
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God is the first cause.
God is eternal.
God is the source of information.
God created everything.
God created life.Who created God - defeats your argument doesn't it?
Occams's Razor again?There is a particular amount of mass in the universe, let's say, N amount; why is it N amount, not more not less?
Total amount mass (and hence the energy) in the Universe must be zero. Because God created everything out of nothingness wink
Regards,
Dear Lote-Tree
Occam's Razor is a good tool but not that sharp tool. It attracts many novices like you and while they play with it they cut their ears and noses with it. D
First, Occam's Razor does not cut here, since you did not compare two alternative explanation. You rejected the ONLY explanation. Occam's Razor suggest of picking the "simplest" explanation out of alteranative multiple explanation.
So, for the laws of the universe that has lead to life and human intelligence provide me with your explanation.
God explanation is merely getting out of the box when we see that the cause of the events CANNOT fit in the box.
Why God? Since, either the laws are eternal and universe as a hole is God, or the laws and the things in the universe were created by something/someone else who is not constrained by the laws and dimensions of the universe. As long as you cannot provide an alternative explanation for the first cause, you have no right of pulling out a razor from your pocket. Your razor will simply fail to cut.
Once I read an excellent article published in the SKEPTC magazine critical of misuse of Occam's Razor. I have the magazines in my library but I do not have time to find that particular issue.
Peace,
Edip -
Hello Mr. Yuksel,
Long time no see -)
I hope all is well with you.
I am still waiting for your Reformist Translation of the Quran. I hope it is already out. It may help in our discussions here.
Occam's Razor is a good tool but not that sharp tool. It attracts many novices like you and while they play with it they cut their ears and noses with it.
Ha ha, yes that is for sure -)
But it is a good way of getting attention from the people you want to speak to -)And in philosophy it is good to be a Novice since you can ask the most important of questions, the questions that expert Philosophers sometimes overlook perhaps. A novice is like being an outsider but being an outsider is not always bad because it can give you an unique perspective wink
First, Occam's Razor does not cut here, since you did not compare two alternative explanation. You rejected the ONLY explanation.
But you must be aware of the two explanations already?
Occam's Razor suggest of picking the "simplest" explanation out of alteranative multiple explanation.
Yes, that is what Occam's Razor is.
God explanation is merely getting out of the box when we see that the cause of the events CANNOT fit in the box.
But we can't get out of the Box to know this for sure.
Why God? Since, either the laws are eternal and universe as a hole is God, or the laws and the things in the universe were created by something/someone else who is not constrained by the laws and dimensions of the universe.
So which is it? Universe as a whole is God or God is outside of the Universe? and how can you be sure since you can never get out of the Box?
As long as you cannot provide an alternative explanation for the first cause, you have no right of pulling out a razor from your pocket. Your razor will simply fail to cut.
Yes, the First Cause. Human minds seem to always seems to come to this conclusion. But if Universe is self-contained and everything is interconnected as the newest Holographic Theory suggests or the no-boundary Proposals by Stephen Hawking is borne out by observation then - what need of a creator?
All I am saying is that our understanding of the Universe is still very very minute...
It was a good article -)
Regards,
p.s
Total amount mass (and hence the energy) in the Universe must be zero. Because God created everything out of nothingness wink
You did not comment on the above? So it is zero isn't it?
Regards,
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How do account for the fossil record Dr bmbmm Phd?
Salam LT,
Through my research and understanding of science, I will not account for the fossil record. It does not hold water.
But if you examine the fossil record you will find that amoeba type creatures came first. There were no complex lifeforms at this stage. How do you account for that?
I think the fossil record is not 100% complete. There might be complex lifeforms which are not yet recorded in the record
Anyway our most advance/and most correct understanding of genetics today reject the evolution as it was presented before.
Peace
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Through my research and understanding of science, I will not account for the fossil record. It does not hold water.
You mean Dr. bmbmm Phd, YOU CAN'T and therefore you ignore it wink
Science would not have progressed very much if all scientist had this attitude my good Doctor -)
I think the fossil record is not 100% complete. There might be complex lifeforms which are not yet recorded in the record
Yes it is not complete and the scientific search continues... -)
But what we have so far suggests that coelacanth fishes did not coexists with amoebas from the begining winkRegards,
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But what we have so far suggests that coelacanth fishes did not coexists with amoebas from the begining
Well may be it did my humble LoteTree, we don't know D
What we know is the impossibility of the geneflux in this direction protein>RNA>DNA, and how can/we deny this you holyness LoteTree DBy the way between 1-100 points what will you give fossil records (technique lol ) and to the advance Molecular Biology technique in finding out the truth behind any biological entity? Me personally will give the fossil record 1 and Molecualr Biology 100. What about you?
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But what we have so far suggests that coelacanth fishes did not coexists with amoebas from the begining
Well may be it did my humble LoteTree, we don't know
Well Dr. bmbmm Phd if you can show us that this is the case then I am sure you will be rewarded the Nobel Prize in Science now!!!-) and you would have upturned 200 hundered years of scientific research in one fell swoop. And just like Einstein proved Newton wrong, you can prove Darwin wrong!!! Isn't that something Doctor? What an achievement will that be for you!!-)
But empirical science my Dear Doctor does not work with "MAY BE's" and you should know that! but on available observable evidence and the evidence we have is the fossil record, and in that record there are no coelacanth fishes swiming with amoebas. Fossils record may be incomplete but rock layers are not. Rocks are our time keepers. Rocks don't lie wink
You, Dr. bmbmm Phd may not want to account for the fossil record and that is upto you. You can IGNORE it and perhaps that is your limitation as a scientist who knows...
But account for the Fossil record my good Doctor not with MAY BE's but what you can observe from the fossil records or you can ignore it. wink
Regards,
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Hi LT,
I have decided to ignore ROCK studies. You can carryon lol I can only show you the most advanced knowledge that we have to reject evolution. You are not know, as I have debated with Professors about this. Good luck with your qust with rock-science
By the way between 1-100 points what will you give fossil records (technique ) and to the advance Molecular Biology technique in finding out the truth behind any biological entity? Me personally will give the fossil record 1 and Molecualr Biology 100. What about you? ?
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Hi LT,
I have decided to ignore ROCK studies.Because you can't account for fossil record can you Dr. Bmbmm Phd? wink So whether you ignore it or sit on it, thats upto you Doctor -)
But Scientific research will continue without you -)You are not know, as I have debated with Professors about this.
Appealing to your past professors will not help you here Doctor wink
Account for the fossil records Dr. Bmbmm Phd or stand aside let others continue their proper empirical scientific work.
Good luck with your quest with rock-science.
And good luck with your search for finding coelacanth fish amongst amoebas in the fossil records wink I am sure scientific community will be waiting with baited breath for such a breathrough from yourself!!! -)
Advance Molecular Biology technique in finding out the truth behind any biological entity?
Molecular biology? -)
OK. So tell me Dr.Bmm Phd, how do you account for the beta hymoglobin
gene in Apes to have 100% match with Humans?Regards,
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By the way between 1-100 points what will you give fossil records (technique ) and to the advance Molecular Biology technique in finding out the truth behind any biological entity? Me personally will give the fossil record 1 and Molecualr Biology 100. What about you?
Just to remind you the top question.
Hey is that all you got ops ?
By the way there is also a 100% sequence homology of Octopus rhodopsin kinase and Squid rhodopsin kinase that I cloned! Also you know the hydrogen in the sun is 100% identical to hydrogen on earth.
beta hymoglobin??? Are you talking about beta globulin or haemoglobin?
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By the way between 1-100 points what will you give fossil records (technique ) and to the advance Molecular Biology technique in finding out the truth behind any biological entity? Me personally will give the fossil record 1 and Molecualr Biology 100. What about you?
Just to remind you the top question.
Above question is irrelvant to what we are discussing.
Hey is that all you got ops ?
I got nothing. You are the one with Phd wink
beta hymoglobin??? Are you talking about beta globulin or haemoglobin?
If you knew this then you would have guessed from my bad spelling.
beta haemoglobin -)So Dr. how do you account for it?
Regards,
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95.2% identity in 147 residues overlap; Score 746.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 1 MVHLTPEEKSAVTALWGKVNVDEVGGEALGRLLVVYPWTQRFFESFGDLSTPDAVMGNPK
UserSeq2, 1 MVHLTPEEKNAVTTLWGKVNVDEVGGEALGRLLVVYPWTQRFFESFGDLSSPDAVMGNPK
UserSeq1, 61 VKAHGKKVLGAFSDGLAHLDNLKGTFATLSELHCDKLHVDPENFRLLGNVLVCVLAHHFG
UserSeq2, 61 VKAHGKKVLGAFSDGLNHLDNLKGTFAQLSELHCDKLHVDPENFKLLGNVLVCVLAHHFG
UserSeq1, 121 KEFTPPVQAAYQKVVAGVANALAHKYH
UserSeq2, 121 KEFTPQVQAAYQKVVAGVANALAHKYH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------40.0% identity in 20 residues overlap; Score 40.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 59 PKVKAHGKKVLGAFSDGLAH
UserSeq2, 125 PQVQAAYQKVVAGVANALAH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------35.0% identity in 20 residues overlap; Score 32.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 125 PPVQAAYQKVVAGVANALAH
UserSeq2, 59 PKVKAHGKKVLGAFSDGLNH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------41.2% identity in 17 residues overlap; Score 30.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 18 KVNVDEVGGEALGRLLV
UserSeq2, 96 KLHVDPENFKLLGNVLV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------41.2% identity in 17 residues overlap; Score 29.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 96 KLHVDPENFRLLGNVLV
UserSeq2, 18 KVNVDEVGGEALGRLLV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------33.3% identity in 21 residues overlap; Score 24.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 10 SAVTALWGKVNVDEVGGEALG
UserSeq2, 50 SSPDAVMGNPKVKAHGKKVLG
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------38.9% identity in 18 residues overlap; Score 23.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 46 FGDLSTPDAVMGNPKVKA
UserSeq2, 119 FGKEFTPQVQAAYQKVVA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------50.0% identity in 6 residues overlap; Score 21.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 2 VHLTPE
UserSeq2, 97 LHVDPE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------50.0% identity in 6 residues overlap; Score 21.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 97 LHVDPE
UserSeq2, 2 VHLTPE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------35.3% identity in 17 residues overlap; Score 19.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 3 HLTPEEKSAVTALWGKV
UserSeq2, 118 HFGKEFTPQVQAAYQKV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------36.4% identity in 11 residues overlap; Score 19.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 77 AHLDNLKGTFA
UserSeq2, 63 AHGKKVLGAFS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------42.9% identity in 7 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 5 TPEEKSA
UserSeq2, 124 TPQVQAA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------60.0% identity in 5 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 91 ELHCD
UserSeq2, 96 KLHVD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------60.0% identity in 5 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 96 KLHVD
UserSeq2, 91 ELHCD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------33.3% identity in 18 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 119 FGKEFTPPVQAAYQKVVA
UserSeq2, 46 FGDLSSPDAVMGNPKVKA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------60.0% identity in 5 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 142 LAHKY
UserSeq2, 115 LAHHF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------35.7% identity in 14 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 57 GNPKVKAHGKKVLG
UserSeq2, 17 GKVNVDEVGGEALG
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------41.7% identity in 12 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 126 PVQAAYQKVVAG
UserSeq2, 59 PKVKAHGKKVLG
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------60.0% identity in 5 residues overlap; Score 18.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 115 LAHHF
UserSeq2, 142 LAHKY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------28.6% identity in 14 residues overlap; Score 17.0; Gap frequency 0.0%
UserSeq1, 79 LDNLKGTFATLSEL
UserSeq2, 76 LNHLDNLKGTFAQL
Here you go holytree! Top sequence is Human and Bottom sequence is Ape. Buy the way where did you get 100% similarity? Now convince me how good the stone-record is. And please give it a score between 1-100.