suicide, going to hell?
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Peace be upon you Joe,
There are different factors that come into play. A certain factor according to the reading is that dying in a particular state would be the state you end up in.
I agree. Your emotional state, which should be one of maintained PEACE, is what you will have when your physical body is removed from the equation. As our examples show us in the stories, there is never a reason to let go of your PEACE. Donot die except as "vehicles of peace"(muslimeen)
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what about euthanasia for people who are critically ill and there is no hope of life for further medication?
According to who?... the doctors? Do they have the authority? Who cures the sick? Who gives life? Who takes it away? idea
IMHO there is no reason for one to kill themselves. Having said that, I'd like to hear if anyone has something which perhaps I havent considered.Peace
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what if someone leaves living wills and stated that they want their lives to be terminated should they encounter persistent vegetative state?
I'm sure they can get someone to do it, but if it were up to me, I wouldn't. They can write whatever they want on their will, like squander the orphans money, doen't mean I have to do it.Peace
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Salaam all,
Surah 493 doesnt speak of suicide persay,but I seem to believe that it covers it because it states that whoever kills a believer intentionally and that would include killing oneself if you are a true believer and that brings upon themselves Allahs curse and going to hell....also how can one ask for forgiveness after death?PM/FM 493 And whoever kills a believer intentionally, then his reward shall be Hell, eternally abiding therein, and God will be angry with him, and curse him, and for him is prepared a great retribution.
And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.
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Not long ago i encountered the worst crisis in my life, and i was at the rim of cursing God for it all. It took me out of everything i was used to and left me heartbroken on top of it. However, the situation took me to a place where i gained a massive amount of knowledge that i needed, totally changed perspective of life, and started to come to peace with who i really am. All this in less than 2 months.
Now i smile humbled, and think of all the times where i have cursed God because it didnt give me the things the way i wanted it. I have come to realise that i always get excactly what i ask for, i just often doesnt get it how i expected it, or in the shape i thought it would come.
hello
your experience is very similar to mine, in fact I did cursed god "Allah forbids and forgive me" but mine was not related any heart breaking, it happens to me at early age and is the best thing happened to me despite its pain, I really apprecite that Allah distined what happened to me because it cut it really short to know Him
Peace
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Ok...just to recap
There isn't anything in the reading outright confirming suicide as per depression (the kind that you would need to actually experience to understand it) is a gateway to hell. It makes absolutely zero sense. When your suffering in life is that bad, grievances you've never caused to yourself, and that have amounted for years, you are the one already being pained beyond anyone else. Mental torture is worse than physical in the long run.
For there to be a god with even the amount of mercy our worst U.S. president has had, then no poor depressed sufferer, especially a young person could possibly suffer more. What wrong did they do, cease the grief they were getting that wasn't deserved? Lol.
Also about this state before death being the key to the after abode. So let me get this straight, if Hitler after all his horrendous acts of genocide that pretty much the world knows about, at the last minute in his life decided to believe in God and be "at peace with himself", he has a better chance of making it to Heaven (or hey, just out of Hell even) than someone who had unrivaled depression and tragedy in their lives committing suicide? Ok, this god's judgement is quite laughable then.
If that verse exists, then people are self-interpreting it way too wrong; kind of like how Sunnis interpret many verses to give men the upper hand against women, like the "wife beating" verse that doesn't even exist ("daraba" is not beating in this verse; its context here is different and means something else).
And let's say someone was physically tortured to death by others, and this person was a righteous believer and yadda yadda. Explain how his/her state of mind is different than that of someone with unfathomable depression who committed suicide after such a long time hoping it'll go away or even lessen (when it didn't).
-M
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And We appointed a meeting time for Moses of forty nights, but then you took the calf after him while you were wicked. Then We forgave you after that, perhaps you would be thankful. And We gave Moses the Scripture and the criterion, perhaps you would be guided. And Moses said to his people 'O my people, you have wronged your souls by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.' And you said 'O Moses, we will not believe you until we see God openly!' So the lightning bolt took you while you were still staring. Then We resurrected you after your death that you may be appreciative. And We shaded you with clouds, and sent down to you manna and quails 'Eat from the goodness of the provisions We have provided you.' They did not wrong Us, but it was their souls that they wronged." (Quran 251-57)
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I think that the aya about not burdening people with more than they can bear may be interpreted other than that anything that happens to you you can endure, be it whatever and that if you can't necessariy you are guilty.
There is acontradiction. If someone kills himself because one cannot put up with any more, and one is not some demon deluded with power that would kill himself out of pride, but does so out of suffering, then the aya would be lying, because obviously some people cannot put up with the suffering. So the way we should understand the aya may be is not that, but should or at least could be understood in the sense that even if you cannot endure suffering without killing youself, God will not burden with with the guilt.
That said, I agree 100% with those that have gone through a lot of suffering to the point of breaking and say they feel it was for good. I think most people have gone through that, and I would under all circumstances desuade anybody if I can from killing himself. But if someone does, I am completely unable to believe and with good reason that that person is doomed to hell for whatever long. In fact, in life, that person was in hell. You must be under the most unsufferable suffering in order to seek death. It doesn't seem fair or logical, not at all bilma3aruf that the Qur'an enjoins, that if through not fault of yours you are suffering like hell in this life, therefore in the other more of the same. If that is fair, I do not know what is unfair.
In general, I feel that we should not speak about the akhira in terms about whuich we know nothing. We speculate and we speculate many times to cause desperation of distrust of God in others. We know that God is never unjust to anybody ?how could He do to a person what even imperfect persons like us would never do? Would one one of any normal people, not deseased, condemn anybody to undescribable suffering just because he could not stand the pain he suffered. We would consider such a person a monster. ?How can we believe that someone who is most latif, wadud, rahman, rahim, would do such monstruosity to anybody?
I would say, let us not plan for whatever God will do with us. We know we will return to Him one way or another, so let us just ask for His mercy for all creatures and specially for those who have suffered most, because they will be the most grateful, in sha' Allah
To take one's own life takes a lot of madness or a lot of courage or a lot of desperation. A person, otherwise good who commits suicide must be really be pushed to the extreme to do it. Deserves compassion not hell.
Salaam
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I think that the aya about not burdening people with more than they can bear may be interpreted other than that anything that happens to you you can endure, be it whatever and that if you can't necessariy you are guilty.
There is acontradiction. If someone kills himself because one cannot put up with any more, and one is not some demon deluded with power that would kill himself out of pride, but does so out of suffering, then the aya would be lying, because obviously some people cannot put up with the suffering. So the way we should understand the aya may be is not that, but should or at least could be understood in the sense that even if you cannot endure suffering without killing youself, God will not burden with with the guilt.
That said, I agree 100% with those that have gone through a lot of suffering to the point of breaking and say they feel it was for good. I think most people have gone through that, and I would under all circumstances desuade anybody if I can from killing himself. But if someone does, I am completely unable to believe and with good reason that that person is doomed to hell for whatever long. In fact, in life, that person was in hell. You must be under the most unsufferable suffering in order to seek death. It doesn't seem fair or logical, not at all bilma3aruf that the Qur'an enjoins, that if through not fault of yours you are suffering like hell in this life, therefore in the other more of the same. If that is fair, I do not know what is unfair.
In general, I feel that we should not speak about the akhira in terms about whuich we know nothing. We speculate and we speculate many times to cause desperation of distrust of God in others. We know that God is never unjust to anybody ?how could He do to a person what even imperfect persons like us would never do? Would one one of any normal people, not deseased, condemn anybody to undescribable suffering just because he could not stand the pain he suffered. We would consider such a person a monster. ?How can we believe that someone who is most latif, wadud, rahman, rahim, would do such monstruosity to anybody?
I would say, let us not plan for whatever God will do with us. We know we will return to Him one way or another, so let us just ask for His mercy for all creatures and specially for those who have suffered most, because they will be the most grateful, in sha' Allah
To take one's own life takes a lot of madness or a lot of courage or a lot of desperation. A person, otherwise good who commits suicide must be really be pushed to the extreme to do it. Deserves compassion not hell.
Salaam
Peace,
I completely agree with this 100%.
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Suicide is still taking a life, which is a major bad deed except in certain cases. So I believe that you will get the same punishment as killing somebody else.
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Suicide is still taking a life, which is a major bad deed except in certain cases. So I believe that you will get the same punishment as killing somebody else.
Shalom Aleikhom,
yes Me agrees .....simple )
Peace
--------- Student of Allah -
Eh, I don't know. I get the whole "taking of a life" angle. But I've also worked with suicidal people before, and the mental state of a suicidal person is quite different from a murderous person. There's also lots of statistics about people committing suicide after having endured some sort of trauma like rape, abuse, etc. They tend to internalize the malice of the person who victimizes them, and they in a sense have a part of themselves that continues to perpetuate the wishes of their attacker. It is a very strange and sad thing to witness, and I would have a hard time accepting the idea that such people, who have already endured a great injustice, would then be subjected to the same penalty of someone guilty of murder.
There's also the society/community side to consider. When society becomes disordered, more people commit suicide. See Emil Durkheim's research about post WWII and "anomie". I think part of the responsibility falls on us to create healthy, well-ordered communities that do not allow a lot of the nonsense that goes on. In doing so, suicides will not be nearly a frequent. If we fail in this responsibility, perhaps we too bear part of the blame.
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What about those girls that were locked up in a basement room and raped over and over again by their own fathers (and becoming pregnant as a result). If they became suicidal, I wouldn't blame them. If they succeeded in killing themselves....I still wouldn't blame them. It's something that completely changes your life and more often than not, changes you as a person. I think at the end of it, it depends on the situation.
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For suicide, we should not belittle the fact that many if not most who commit suicide suffer from depression or some other form of mental illness. Society does not tend to view mental illness as at par with illnesses like cancer, but it is very much an illness and should be treated and viewed as such. In Canada, a Mental Health Commission delivered a report advocating for greater understanding of mental illness from this perspective, and was considered groundbreaking when it was issued. Many mosques refuse to allow for the funerals of those who committed suicide, but many others have now begun to acknowledge that the deceased was mentally ill and have gone ahead and performed their funerals anyways.
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i don't know if this issue has been addressed before, but i've been wondering what would happen to people who do suicide out of chronic desperation in their lives. would they go to hell?
what about euthanasia for people who are critically ill and there is no hope of life for further medication? is it allowed in the quran?Definitely they will go to their grave..
Beyond that is left for speculation...
Salam / Peace